M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Isambard · 24-01-2020 9:54pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

That was late 2015/early 2016

ok so 4 years but my point was are there not sections of that road a higher priority than rebuilding a section, crash barriers et al, which had only been put in a few years earlier. I'm thinking Ballybeg and the entire section from Charlebvile to Croom.

Cork Trucker · 24-01-2020 9:57pm

Isambard wrote: »

ok so 4 years but my point was are there not sections of that road a higher priority than rebuilding a section, crash barriers et al, which had only been put in a few years earlier. I'm thinking Ballybeg and the entire section from Charlebvile to Croom.

I don't see what the point was in those works to replace "cheese wire" with like for like, although the cost of those works would be a drop in the ocean of what is needed for the M20 it could have been diverted towards consultants fees.route planning etc, but we are the country with the most expensive hospital on the planet, so that tells you the intellect of those in positions of power :rolleyes:

Hibernicis · 24-01-2020 10:49pm

marno21 wrote: »

M20 feasibility study in 2007 showed that at the time around 2,500 vehicles per day would switch to a motorway via Mitchelstown.

That’s a very interesting figure.

Take the current traffic at the mid-point (and also probably the quietest stretch) of the two roads (N20 and Western Cahir-Limerick leg of the N24):

N24 Between Bansha and Tipperary Town – 4Q 2019 – Mon-Fri 24 hour – both directions - just under 7,000 vehicles per day, peak approx 650 vehicles per hour*

N20 Between Buttevant and Charleville - 4Q 2019 – Mon-Fri 24 hour – both directions - just over 11,000 vehicles per day, peak approx 1,000 vehicles per hour*

Apply the 2,500 number to this

M24 increases to 9,500. N20 drops to 8,500. So the two roads are now in the same category.

Work it the other way and be very conservative and say 1,000 would switch from the M8/N24 to the M20 and the the figures are:

N24 drops to 6,000 and the M20 increases to 12,000. So the M20 is now handling double the volume.

And this ignores a number of factors:

If the M20 operated as a full motorway it should also attract a chunk of traffic from other routes such as the R513 and the N22/N21 corridor.

The busier section of the N20 (Cork-Mallow) needs a dual carriage way based on current volumes, never mind any increase.

By the Greens own admission, the N20 would require significant work even if the M24 was completed - the DC/M from Cork to Mallow, bypasses for Mallow, Buttervant and Charleville as well as the one horsers where there are currently 50/60Km/h speed limits (e.g. Ballyhea, New Twopothouse, Banogue Cross etc). And extensive widening/straightening/junction realignment of the the 80km running sections and the more dangerous sections (e.g. the 80km/h stretch adjacent to Ballybeg quarry and O’Rourkes Cross etc). You’d have to seriously wonder how much this would actually save, given that the M24 would also have to be paid for.

And to follow through with the logic, the Eastern leg of the N24 (Cahir to Waterford) would need to be upgraded to Motorway standard which would appear to be complete overkill.

The distance from Cork-Limerick (GPO to GPO) via the N20 route is 100Km. The distance via the M8/N24 route is 143Km. It’s an inescapable fact that traffic on the latter route will therefore consume 43% more energy/fuel and result in 43% more carbon emissions forever

The graphic produced by the Greens to illustrate their “Masterplan” for A “Munster Motorway Network” look like something drawn on the back of a beer mat. Better if that beer mat had remained in the pub where they found it while concocting this madcap “policy”

* TII traffic Counter Website https://www.nratrafficdata.ie/

Reputable Rog · 24-01-2020 11:36pm

If the M20 was built it would take most of the Dublin bound traffic from the N72/N73 out of Mallow as the traffic would head onto Limerick.

Isambard · 25-01-2020 9:31am

Reputable Rog wrote: »

If the M20 was built it would take most of the Dublin bound traffic from the N72/N73 out of Mallow as the traffic would head onto Limerick.

indeed it would. I do that now.

The N72/73 boreens only compound the dangerous N20 situation.

Cookiemunster · 29-01-2020 7:10pm

I just heard Ryan on Ivan Yates. He didn't make a mistake the last time when he spoke about joining Cork to Limerick via the M7, because he just repeated it. I can only assume he wants people to travel between the two cities via Portlaoise. He's bloody delusional.

Cork Trucker · 29-01-2020 8:24pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I just heard Ryan on Ivan Yates. He didn't make a mistake the last time when he spoke about joining Cork to Limerick via the M7, because he just repeated it. I can only assume he wants people to travel between the two cities via Portlaoise. He's bloody delusional.

On a bicycle!

marno21 · 29-01-2020 8:39pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I just heard Ryan on Ivan Yates. He didn't make a mistake the last time when he spoke about joining Cork to Limerick via the M7, because he just repeated it. I can only assume he wants people to travel between the two cities via Portlaoise. He's bloody delusional.

He thinks the M8 is the M7. Which is easy to see cos Cork is signed from the M50 via the M7 (even if he has family in Glounthane).

He speaks some sense (and did in that interview) but the brain farts and the loopy policies are the issue with him.

prunudo · 29-01-2020 8:48pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I just heard Ryan on Ivan Yates. He didn't make a mistake the last time when he spoke about joining Cork to Limerick via the M7, because he just repeated it. I can only assume he wants people to travel between the two cities via Portlaoise. He's bloody delusional.

With a bit of luck and if the green wave materialises then the majority party will stop them running away with their ideas. As much as I want to see improvements to rail and the all important metrolink, I'd hate to see it at the expense of the M20.

Sam Russell · 29-01-2020 8:50pm

marno21 wrote: »

He thinks the M8 is the M7. Which is easy to see cos Cork is signed from the M50 via the M7 (even if he has family in Glounthane).

He speaks some sense (and did in that interview) but the brain farts and the loopy policies are the issue with him.

He sees no problem with impractical policies - he should forget about road building and concentrate on making PT the issue.

Buses need roads, and intercity bus services work better with motorways.

Railways outside of high density areas are too expensive as they need lots of passengers all going to the same place. That only exists in Ireland in the larger cities, and people travelling to them.

As I said elsewhere, he pursues the perfect to the detriment of the good - even to the extinction of the good.

The M20 is needed if only to stop the carnage on the N20. The M8 is not part of the solution.

marno21 · 30-01-2020 12:09am

Sam Russell wrote: »

He sees no problem with impractical policies - he should forget about road building and concentrate on making PT the issue.

Buses need roads, and intercity bus services work better with motorways.

Railways outside of high density areas are too expensive as they need lots of passengers all going to the same place. That only exists in Ireland in the larger cities, and people travelling to them.

As I said elsewhere, he pursues the perfect to the detriment of the good - even to the extinction of the good.

The M20 is needed if only to stop the carnage on the N20. The M8 is not part of the solution.

Yes exactly - he forgets that freight and buses use roads too. And this lark about the level of overall investment in roads ignores the fact that roads have to be maintained to carry buses too

It’s well accepted that the M20 is needed. None of the candidates proposing connecting Limerick and Waterford will get many votes, and the large cohort of Dublin Green TDs will have other stuff to focus on when they get into Government with Fianna Fáil.

Hibernicis · 30-01-2020 4:12am

I drove that poxy road again late last night. Spent 20 mins behind an 01 Seat with a single solitary rear light chugging along at 45/50 Kmh and hugging the centre line (and subsequently discovered he also had only one working headlight, on the nearside of course).

Depressing stuff. And now this shows up ............

Government does not know full cost of M20 road from Cork to Limerick

In many ways the article is much ado about nothing, but it does add to the negative sentiment that is accumulating around this project and helps make it even more toxic. You really get to thinking that there is a God out there, and that she doesn't want this road to be built.

windy shepard henderson · 30-01-2020 4:18am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I just heard Ryan on Ivan Yates. He didn't make a mistake the last time when he spoke about joining Cork to Limerick via the M7, because he just repeated it. I can only assume he wants people to travel between the two cities via Portlaoise. He's bloody delusional.

I think he also said something a few months back about 1 electric car per village in rural Ireland

Nobody listens to this idiot, even canvasers accross the country are telling him to tone it down,

Already the clare candidate has said that if he doesn't back off talking about the M20 she hasn't a hope of getting elected,

marno21 · 30-01-2020 10:03am

Hibernicis wrote: »

I drove that poxy road again late last night. Spent 20 mins behind an 01 Seat with a single solitary rear light chugging along at 45/50 Kmh and hugging the centre line (and subsequently discovered he also had only one working headlight, on the nearside of course).

Depressing stuff. And now this shows up ............

Government does not know full cost of M20 road from Cork to Limerick

In many ways the article is much ado about nothing, but it does add to the negative sentiment that is accumulating around this project and helps make it even more toxic. You really get to thinking that there is a God out there, and that she doesn't want this road to be built.

Shocking article. Totally misleading and makes no effort to actually explain any of the points raised in the article. Head banging stuff.

Great to create talking points for the Greens though

Reputable Rog · 30-01-2020 10:20am

marno21 wrote: »

Shocking article. Totally misleading and makes no effort to actually explain any of the points raised in the article. Head banging stuff.

Great to create talking points for the Greens though

I heard him on the radio this morning, it was like he had just made the story up before going on air.
He knows nothing about the project.

pajoguy · 30-01-2020 10:47am

"The actual price may not emerge for many years to come.........."
I should apply for a job with the Irish Times if this is the ****e they come up with......
Why not do a detailed design for each route option and tender all of the route options.....
The worry I have is Fine Gael might need the greens to get back into power and Leo canned this project previously.
The road needs to be built and the "M24" needs to be built but the M20 needs to be the No. 1 priority roads project in this country.
I understand the Greens have to look at their policies from an environmental perspective but what about all those people living on the M20. Noise and air pollution. Families of all those who have died on this road. The economic needs of all of south Limerick and all of North Cork. Commuters from all these areas have suffered for years. Get on and build this and cut the sh*t.

Isambard · 30-01-2020 10:54am

there is some sense in an M24 Waterford to Cahir link, but of course they built the M9 instead.

road_high · 30-01-2020 11:48am

Isambard wrote: »

there is some sense in an M24 Waterford to Cahir link, but of course they built the M9 instead.

Yes 60/70 km to Dublin in the wrong direction would have made sense alright :pac:
N24 is seperate route that needs upgrading. If anything the M8 should have came via the M9 route or the M7 link into the M8 at Cahir either of which would have been far more practical.

hans aus dtschl · 30-01-2020 2:00pm

We're way off topic here, but the original M8 work was done in many phases, which I suspect factored into why they followed the original alignment so closely: they got some early "wins" by opening it piecemeal and spending more consistently over a longer time with smaller crews. It would have been a more difficult "big bang" project the other way.

Idbatterim · 30-01-2020 2:12pm

pajoguy wrote: »

"The actual price may not emerge for many years to come.........."
I should apply for a job with the Irish Times if this is the ****e they come up with......
Why not do a detailed design for each route option and tender all of the route options.....
The worry I have is Fine Gael might need the greens to get back into power and Leo canned this project previously.
The road needs to be built and the "M24" needs to be built but the M20 needs to be the No. 1 priority roads project in this country.
I understand the Greens have to look at their policies from an environmental perspective but what about all those people living on the M20. Noise and air pollution. Families of all those who have died on this road. The economic needs of all of south Limerick and all of North Cork. Commuters from all these areas have suffered for years. Get on and build this and cut the sh*t.

the M20 should be built, but every other rural motorway or dual carriageway etc, needs to be shelved, until the M20, DU and DM are underway!

serfboard · 30-01-2020 3:28pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

the M20 should be built, but every other rural motorway or dual carriageway etc, needs to be shelved, until the M20, DU and DM are underway!

So you might say, but meanwhile the N4 (Cooloney to Castlebaldwin), N5 (Castlebar to Westport), N22 (Macroom to Ballyvourney) rural dual carriageways are all under construction, and the N25 rural dual carriageway opened today.

I don’t think that anyone is listening to you!

riddlinrussell · 30-01-2020 3:53pm

serfboard wrote: »

So you might say, but meanwhile the N4 (Cooloney to Castlebaldwin), N5 (Castlebar to Westport), N22 (Macroom to Ballyvourney) rural dual carriageways are all under construction, and the N25 rural dual carriageway opened today.

I don’t think that anyone is listening to you!

Ryan sometimes does my head in, the nuanced Green approach would be to say,

"We wont be outright cancelling any road schemes, however anything that isn't already past planning will undergo a rigorous Cost/Benefit analysis against alternative public transport options, keeping in mind the commitment of 53.3% of the Infrastructure Budget towards sustainable public transport, because the M20 might indeed make sense, and if it does it will hold up to such scrutiny."

Sam Russell · 30-01-2020 4:52pm

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Ryan sometimes does my head in, the nuanced Green approach would be to say,

"We wont be outright cancelling any road schemes, however anything that isn't already past planning will undergo a rigorous Cost/Benefit analysis against alternative public transport options, keeping in mind the commitment of 53.3% of the Infrastructure Budget towards sustainable public transport, because the M20 might indeed make sense, and if it does it will hold up to such scrutiny."

That would indeed be the right approach.

We do need motorways because most of the railway lines have been closed, but do we need motorways to every townland - no.

hans aus dtschl · 30-01-2020 5:01pm

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Ryan sometimes does my head in, the nuanced Green approach would be to say,

"We wont be outright cancelling any road schemes, however anything that isn't already past planning will undergo a rigorous Cost/Benefit analysis against alternative public transport options, keeping in mind the commitment of 53.3% of the Infrastructure Budget towards sustainable public transport, because the M20 might indeed make sense, and if it does it will hold up to such scrutiny."

Exactly this.
You feel sometimes that they're perhaps just being totalitarian to make sure that they DON'T get into power. Or perhaps the feeling is that if/when they get into power they expect to be bargained back to a more logical standing on a lot of these issues.

The various messages of "no more roads investment", "N24 for Cork-Limerick traffic", "Metro by another route", "no M28, but more public transit on the M28 corridor", "no to Youghal greenway but pro rail on the route" are all effectively pie-in-the-sky ideas, when "low-hanging fruit" quick Green/Sustainable wins are available to them.

Isambard · 30-01-2020 5:44pm

road_high wrote: »

Yes 60/70 km to Dublin in the wrong direction would have made sense alright :pac:
N24 is seperate route that needs upgrading. If anything the M8 should have came via the M9 route or the M7 link into the M8 at Cahir either of which would have been far more practical.

Kind of ironic as that's what people are proposing for Cork to Limerik

the M8 should have been built via Limerick. Lunacy to have two fairly lightly used motorways so closely following each other. (three if you include the M9). But we are where we are.

I'd prefer to wonder whether the M9 was necessary at all rather than whether it would have been 60/70 km in the wrong direction via Cahir,

road_high · 30-01-2020 7:58pm

Isambard wrote: »

Kind of ironic as that's what people are proposing for Cork to Limerik

the M8 should have been built via Limerick. Lunacy to have two fairly lightly used motorways so closely following each other. (three if you include the M9). But we are where we are.

I'd prefer to wonder whether the M9 was necessary at all rather than whether it would have been 60/70 km in the wrong direction via Cahir,

Look at the TII traffic counts and wonder no more! There were several
permutations of routes that could have been followed but the decision was taken to broadly follow the existing N routes. Which is what they should do with the N20.

Chris_5339762 · 30-01-2020 9:38pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

the M20 should be built, but every other rural motorway or dual carriageway etc, needs to be shelved, until the M20, DU and DM are underway!

DUNKETTLE

pajoguy · 30-01-2020 11:50pm

Just turned on the debate...... from the 5 mins i have watched it looks like Eamon Ryan is gonna hold the aces when forming a coalition.... the leaders seem to be pandering to him....bloody hell....the next 4 weeks could be the biggest 4 weeks for the survival of this project.

SeanW · 31-01-2020 12:01am

God help us :mad:

marno21 · 31-01-2020 12:35am

According to Kieran O'Donnell's LinkedIn, draft route to be put out for public consultation shortly

https://ie.linkedin.com/in/kieranodonnell2011

sondagefaux · 31-01-2020 12:45am

marno21 wrote: »

I have no problem with the Government not proceeding the scheme in 2011. While the country had such a large budget deficit, spending a 9 figure sum on land in rural Cork and Limerick was not a wise choice to make.

What I do have a problem with is what happened between early 2015 and now. When there was no excuse. When the N5 through Roscommon had no problem being allocated all necessary resources to get it from concept to construction yet the M20 has had nothing done. All in a background of growth and exactly the type of tax windfalls that are best spend on non recurring expenditure.

And with the state able to borrow money practically for free or even getting paid to borrow money!

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ireland-bonds-test/ireland-sells-4-billion-euros-of-bonds-at-negative-yield-idUKKCN1C91M3

Irish 10-year bond interest rates are now trading just in positive territory at 0.066 per cent and shorter-term Irish government debt is now trading at a negative interest rate, as rates fall to record or near-record lows across Europe. The low rates, if sustained, will help the National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA) to refinance maturing borrowing at rock-bottom interest rates. It may also mean that banks trim existing fixed-term interest rates offers to mortgage borrowers, as they get access to cheaper finance.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/irish-long-term-interest-rates-hit-record-low-1.3945747

alias no.9 · 31-01-2020 1:04am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I just heard Ryan on Ivan Yates. He didn't make a mistake the last time when he spoke about joining Cork to Limerick via the M7, because he just repeated it. I can only assume he wants people to travel between the two cities via Portlaoise. He's bloody delusional.

Its just as useful an option as a route through Cahir, and much lower cost.

Cookiemunster · 31-01-2020 9:52am

alias no.9 wrote: »

Its just as useful an option as a route through Cahir, and much lower cost.

For the umpteenth time, it doesn't save money. It doesn't help the majority of people using the road, commuters into Cork and Limerick. It doesn't bypass the overchoked towns on the route. It doesn't replace the highly dangerous 19th century alignment along most of the route. It doesn't address the fact that Mallow to Blarney needs a dual carriage/motorway now. Any route other than following the N20 still leaves all these things needing to be done.

And who in their right mind would take the 3 hour journey via Portlaoise when even the awful current road takes half that time?

Cork Trucker · 31-01-2020 11:10am

alias no.9 wrote: »

Its just as useful an option as a route through Cahir, and much lower cost.

Ah jesus christ not this again

Isambard · 31-01-2020 11:13am

i kind of think, or hope, that post 5883 was an attempt at irony or just humour. I don't think he was serious.

neddynasty · 31-01-2020 11:34am

Hibernicis wrote: »

Depressing stuff. And now this shows up ............

Government does not know full cost of M20 road from Cork to Limerick

The most interesting part was the last sentence:

"Further documents released under Freedom of Information legislation show how a number of voters threatened to desert Fine Gael if the road was not built."

We all need to follow that lead. Anyone who's not in favour of the M20 following the current N20 route doesn't get a vote. Hopefully the Dail will take notice.

veryangryman · 31-01-2020 11:53am

The fact that Eamonn Ryan incorrectly says "connecting to the M7" instead of the M8 just shows how little he cares about linking the cities.

Assuming he means the M8, it's still vague. Is he talking via Cahir or Michelstown. The latter has a shred of use but i understand its on wilder terrain and gives 2 fingers to Mallow, Buttevant and Charleville

hans aus dtschl · 31-01-2020 12:06pm

It's just a way of blocking the M20.
Their overarching policy is "no more roads" and you can't square that with "route M20 traffic via the M8".
They're just using the nearest possible mechanism to get the M20 canned again. Even if it is a roads project that they're proposing.

Isambard · 31-01-2020 1:52pm

joining the M8 might be possible at Fermoy, although the country looks difficult, and following the N72 Blackwater Valley to join the N20 north of Mallow, and them M20 to Patrickswell. Could take enough traffic off the Mallow to Cork section to make it workable. I'm doubtful of the advantages though

hans aus dtschl · 31-01-2020 2:11pm

Isambard wrote: »

joining the M8 might be possible at Fermoy, although the country looks difficult, and following the N72 Blackwater Valley to join the N20 north of Mallow, and them M20 to Patrickswell. Could take enough traffic off the Mallow to Cork section to make it workable. I'm doubtful of the advantages though

And you're still back to questions of Dunkettle traffic volume and the existing local traffic on the N20 unfortunately.

Idbatterim · 31-01-2020 2:56pm

the cost thing is a red herring, how much of that, is going to end up back in state coffers anyway?

Hibernicis · 31-01-2020 3:10pm

Isambard wrote: »

joining the M8 might be possible at Fermoy, although the country looks difficult, and following the N72 Blackwater Valley to join the N20 north of Mallow, and them M20 to Patrickswell. Could take enough traffic off the Mallow to Cork section to make it workable. I'm doubtful of the advantages though

The problem with this approach is that it is tinkering at the edges, rerouting bits and pieces, just to satisfy some "perfect solution" that exists only in Ryan's head. Look at a journey from say Bandon to Limerick going via Bandon to Dunkettle to Fermoy to Mallow to Limerick it makes no sense. Contrast this with TII's current overall "masterplan" as we understand, it will be Bandon to Ballincollig to Blarney (M40 West/North) to Mallow to Limerick and it makes far more sense. The same goes for Macroom to Limerick. And surprisingly, it also works better for Middleton, Youghal etc to Limerick.

You simply cannot rip a critical link (M20) out of the current masterplan without going back to the drawing board fo a wholesale redesign. And in any event, the M20 isn't just a point to point motorway, it serves a whole very busy, reasonably densely populated and commercially important corridor.

Frankly, I think that Ryan should be told to get into a 20 year old Fiesta at 3:45 pm some Friday and made to drive from Cork city centre to Limerick city centre and back. Behind a convoy of three low loaders carrying mobile homes.

Isambard · 31-01-2020 3:28pm

i don't the western N40 link will happen in my lifetime, the eastern N40 link might, be handy for my bathchair.

Reputable Rog · 31-01-2020 8:44pm

Isambard wrote: »

joining the M8 might be possible at Fermoy, although the country looks difficult, and following the N72 Blackwater Valley to join the N20 north of Mallow, and them M20 to Patrickswell. Could take enough traffic off the Mallow to Cork section to make it workable. I'm doubtful of the advantages though

It’s 28 km to Fermoy to Mallow and another 35 from Fermoy to Cork.
I can’t imagine traffic taking a 28km detour for the sake of staying on Motorway.

Kevtherev1 · 31-01-2020 9:24pm

The solution here is to put up road blocks against the green party in all constituency's. Call to action-- in all constituency's do not give any votes to the green candidate in your area.

Stop that Eamon clown blocking the m20 and other critical road upgrades. or at the very least reduce their seat count as much as possible. Can you imagine the embarrassment of Eamon Ryan as taniste of this country. **** no. And i am in no way a member of any party myself.

Sam Russell · 31-01-2020 10:20pm

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

The solution here is to put up road blocks against the green party in all constituency's. Call to action-- in all constituency's do not give any votes to the green candidate in your area.

Stop that Eamon clown blocking the m20 and other critical road upgrades. or at the very least reduce their seat count as much as possible. Can you imagine the embarrassment of Eamon Ryan as taniste of this country. **** no. And i am in no way a member of any party myself.

Look, they will build the Metro,and probably DU. I think the logic of the M20 is likely to get the go ahead as not all members agree with him.

marno21 · 31-01-2020 10:55pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Look, they will build the Metro,and probably DU. I think the logic of the M20 is likely to get the go ahead as not all members agree with him.

The constituencies that the M20 will run through will likely return a sum total of zero Green Party TDs. They will however return potentially 9 Fianna Fáil TDs. I have my doubts that the Greens will be having much influence on this issue.

windy shepard henderson · 31-01-2020 10:57pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Look, they will build the Metro,and probably DU. I think the logic of the M20 is likely to get the go ahead as not all members agree with him.

while most dont agree with him he could be asked to join a coalition government where he will be able to give a list of demands before he joins , the shelving of the M20 would be seen as one of his main priorities

he has such ridicules views on farming and transport m but as another poster said sooner or later people will have to put the foot down against the greens like they did in other EU countries or our infrastructure will fall apart

Markcheese · 02-02-2020 3:28pm

marno21 wrote: »

The constituencies that the M20 will run through will likely return a sum total of zero Green Party TDs. They will however return potentially 9 Fianna Fáil TDs. I have my doubts that the Greens will be having much influence on this issue.

Where the influence could be / would be in determining what the capital budget is spent on ,if there's say 10 billion and its spent on Dart underground and metro North ,then there's nothing left over for new motorways ...

Aontachtoir · 02-02-2020 3:55pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Where the influence could be / would be in determining what the capital budget is spent on ,if there's say 10 billion and its spent on Dart underground and metro North ,then there's nothing left over for new motorways ...

If/when SF get in, cancelling the M20 will almost pay for returning the pension age to 65 for the next two years. A few forums on Irish unity mostly aimed at antagonising the DUP (a party in another country) can eat up the rest.

I don't understand why people on this board are so focused on the Greens while completely ignoring the damage SF (who are polling far, far higher) would do to infrastructure investment. Populists don't invest. If SF poll as highly as they have done today, and get into government, the M20 and most other road projects are probably toast.

M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

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