DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

No, you're a... · 24-06-2019 9:56pm

Hi,

Not a complete running novice as I managed the DCM in 2012. I've fallen off the wagon since but I'm back now. I'm here for some tips on keeping focused and good training techniques. I love running (when I'm doing it) but haven't much of an idea on how best to train.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
- 5k 26:51 (June 2019)
- 10k 55:19 (June 2019)
- half marathon 2:02 (Aug 2012)
- marathon 4:14 (DCM 2012)

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
- no

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
- run 3/4 days (typical 3 miles runs with longer run of 5/6 miles)
- pilates: I'm going to try doing some at home

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
- Dream is a sub 4 hours time but finishing it is the goal.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
- 3 days midweek, with a longer run on sunday.
- Hal Higdon intermediate 1

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
- injury and/or lack of training due to life commitments

Why are you running this marathon?
- the challenge

Baby75 · 24-06-2019 9:58pm

Irishder wrote: »

Hi All,
Bit of a race report for the Waterford viking 1/4 marathon. On the sound advice of the mentors here i decided to switch from the half to the quarter marathon distance. Race started at 9 so woke at 7:00 to get breakfast into me, porridge and a slice of toast. Get my gear on and left the house at 8:00, drove into the parking harea where there was quite a que, finally parked up and got the bus to the start line at about 8:20. Bus's where very well organised and we were at the start line in plenty of time. Walked around used the toilet for the 4th time!! and at about 8:50 got into the starting pen and got ready.

Mile 1. 9:39 Min/Mile avg HR 151
Start was fairly congested went up narrow enough roads but suited me fine as helped me control the pace some what! Great atmosphere around the town and a real buzz about the place.

Mile 2: 9:30 Min/Mile avg HR 170
This was running down the quay so plenty of support and more room to run, also so my two kids and wife at the end of it so that gave me a bit of a buzz. feeling good.

Mile 3: 9:50 Min/Mile Avg HR 170
Saw the 2:10 half marathon pacers so decided to stick in behind them, very little support at this side of the bridge. Seemed to get very warm here as well.

Mile 4: 9:50 Min/Mile Avg HR 178
Still with the half marathon pacers but working really hard as its a climb for the whole mile.

Mile 5: 10:17 Min/Mile Avg HR 178
Slowed down a bit after the hill as it took a bit out of me. feeling ok and nice views crossing the second bridge.

Mile 6: 10:24 Min/Mile Avg HR 176
Tried to get my hear rate down a bit so slowed a little. this was along the greenway, feeling ok but looking forward to the finish.

Mile 7: 10:31 Min/Mile Avg HR 183
Fairly steep hill here as you exit the greenway, struggled a bit but kept going. They were giving out jelly beans but found it hard to eat as my mouth was as dry as Gandi's slipper. Think they helped when i got them down.

Finish was in the WIT center bit of a climb up to it but head down, Max HR here was 191 which i felt! A photographer got a lovely pic of myself and my 2 lads at the ends so hopefully i will see that somewhere

Great day and really glad i opted for the 1/4 marathon, dont think i drank enough water in the morning and its hard to get it into you on the course. Event was very well run but the only complaint is it is very hard for spectators to get along the course, once you pass mile 2 there is practically no support.
The finish was great with loads of food and drink available as well as a bouncy castle for the kids.

Not my fastest 10K but i had a fasted mile of 9:15 somewhere out there.

Really appreciate the advice of the mentors and really looking forward to starting into the plan next week.

Well done, you got sound advice to drop down to the Quater I ran the Half and the heat only got worse as the day went on :cool:

The Lady taking the pictures near the roundabout as you run down to the Finish is a friend of mine Snapphappy by Yvonne so keep an eye on her page over the next few days she will put them up

Mr. Guappa · 24-06-2019 10:19pm

Unknownability wrote: »

Thanks, I do think it's an optimistic target and I am preparing myself for not meeting. I realise that my progression won't be as quick now, as the weight loss is flat lining.

Yes, I am going to follow the Boards plan.

Rough paces that I am running to are.

Recovery 8'30 - 9 m/m

Easy 8 - 8'30 m/m

PMP 6'45 - 7'15 m/m

LSR 7'30 - 8 m/m

Do these seem generally on target? New watch has heart rate monitoring built in rather than the strap so much easier to use and will start tracking that. Resting heart rate is around 45, so working out the heart rate zones.

I do think does paces are very much on the speedy side alright. I'd be inclined to say something like:
LSR - 8:45 - 9:20
Easy - 8:45 - 9:00
Recovery > 9:20
PMP for a 3:30 marathon would be in and around 8:00

Unknownability · 24-06-2019 10:41pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I do think does paces are very much on the speedy side alright. I'd be inclined to say something like:
LSR - 8:45 - 9:20
Easy - 8:45 - 9:00
Recovery > 9:20
PMP for a 3:30 marathon would be in and around 8:00

Thanks, will incorporate them into it. Big change running in a controlled manner when I was use to just running as fast as I could.

Mr. Guappa · 24-06-2019 10:57pm

No, you're a... wrote: »

Hi,

Not a complete running novice as I managed the DCM in 2012. I've fallen off the wagon since but I'm back now. I'm here for some tips on keeping focused and good training techniques. I love running (when I'm doing it) but haven't much of an idea on how best to train.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
- 5k 26:51 (June 2019)
- 10k 55:19 (June 2019)
- half marathon 2:02 (Aug 2012)
- marathon 4:14 (DCM 2012)

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
- no

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
- run 3/4 days (typical 3 miles runs with longer run of 5/6 miles)
- pilates: I'm going to try doing some at home

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
- Dream is a sub 4 hours time but finishing it is the goal.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
- 3 days midweek, with a longer run on sunday.
- Hal Higdon intermediate 1

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
- injury and/or lack of training due to life commitments

Why are you running this marathon?
- the challenge

Welcome No, you're a...;

Any particular reason you've gone for the Hal Higdon Intermediate 1 plan? For someone at your current level I'm not a huge fan of the way the weekend runs are structured - most weekends have a PMP run on the Saturday, followed by the LSR on the Sunday. It feels a bit too much for where you're currently at.

Would you consider taking a look at the boards plan? It's broadly similar to the HHI1 - same number of days running, a touch less mileage and the long run distances are much the same, but crucially the boards plan has the PMP runs midweek. It's up to yourself of course, but I'd definitely consider it.

4:00 does look a tad ambitious at the minute to be honest. Also, you need to slow the training paces way down - based on those recent race times your easy pace can be 10:30, and LSR pace a touch slower again.

Mr. Guappa · 24-06-2019 11:53pm

TillyDcm wrote: »

Thank you for the support Mr. Guappa.
I have my entry and my first 3 miles of the HH plan are complete!

Nice one Tilly... Only another 408 miles between you and the start line

Laineyfrecks · 25-06-2019 12:20am

As i start into my training i am wondering what the advice would be on classes? I have always done classes with my running 4 - 5 times a week. I would like to still do 1 or 2 a week but don't want to mess up my marathon training. I did weights, HIIT & strength & conditioning. Should i continue with any classes & if so what would be recommended?
Cheers

Mr. Guappa · 25-06-2019 12:41am

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

As i start into my training i am wondering what the advice would be on classes? I have always done classes with my running 4 - 5 times a week. I would like to still do 1 or 2 a week but don't want to mess up my marathon training. I did weights, HIIT & strength & conditioning. Should i continue with any classes & if so what would be recommended?
Cheers

The boards plan has some cross-training included, so your classes would fall into that category. 1-2 classes a week sounds ok, but try and keep one day per week as complete rest - no classes, no running. As for what type of classes, that's really up to you. The plans do call for gentle cross-training, but I would think that as long as the intensity is something you're used to and is not off the charts, then you're ok. Maybe drop back to one class per week if you're feeling the tiredness as the mileage increases.

bucky08 · 25-06-2019 2:31am

Mr. Guappa wrote:

Happy to have you on board bucky08, fingers crossed you get an entry - the additional entries will be on sale from next Monday morning at 9am.

Mr. Guappa wrote:

Based on those times 4 hours does seem a touch ambitious this time around. Take a look at both plans on the first post of this thread, and see what you think. Keeping your training paces nice and easy will help get you to the start line, and the finish line.

Hi Mr Guappa
I will have a look at the plans tonight and I will choose one that will suit. Still hoping for sub 4hrs even though you are prob right that it may be a bit much.... let the adventure begin...

Mr. Guappa · 25-06-2019 4:24am

I thought this article on fueling, nutrition and hydration was worth sharing, if only for the line "you wouldn’t put p*ss in a Ferrari"

Lombardo123 · 25-06-2019 6:31am

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I thought this article on fueling, nutrition and hydration was worth sharing, if only for the line "you wouldn’t put p*ss in a Ferrari"

No wonder you're a seasoned marathon runner.. You don't appear to sleep :-)

Laineyfrecks · 25-06-2019 7:22am

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

The boards plan has some cross-training included, so your classes would fall into that category. 1-2 classes a week sounds ok, but try and keep one day per week as complete rest - no classes, no running. As for what type of classes, that's really up to you. The plans do call for gentle cross-training, but I would think that as long as the intensity is something you're used to and is not off the charts, then you're ok. Maybe drop back to one class per week if you're feeling the tiredness as the mileage increases.

Thanks a mill! I will continue with a couple of classes for now & take a full rest day as advised. I will step back as you said if i start feeling its too much! Cheers

Treviso · 25-06-2019 9:36am

Lombardo123 wrote: »

No wonder you're a seasoned marathon runner.. You don't appear to sleep :-)

It's great that the mentoring thread has upgraded to 24/7 support!

Arsenium · 25-06-2019 11:09am

Hi everyone, I’ve followed this thread for the last few years and reckoned that I would contribute to it if I ever decided to do the marathon again.

I did DCM in 2015 so I’m not a total novice. I presume this is ok (see below).

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

5K – May 2019 – 20:00,
10K Dunshaughlin 10K 44:30,
Mullingar Half 17/03 – 1:42.
DCM 2015 – 4:31. Targetted 4:20 and was on target but cramped badly near the end. Lost the group and struggled to get going again after stopping to free the cramp.

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do) No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level. 4 -5 a week. Between cycling and running and swimming it could be 6 – 7. At the moment I'd be running maybe 25 miles a week.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time? 3:50 ideally. Sub 4:00.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? 6. Boards plan

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up? Sacrificing other training. Losing speed built up through training over shorter distances.

Why are you running this marathon? Running has come back onto my radar this year. I decided to step back from running and focussing more on multi sport / adventure racing / triathlon in the last few years. That got my love for running back and now I want to finally tick this marathon box and finish it happy.

Looking forward to all the information on here and all the advice on offer. 18 weeks...well 17 weeks and 5 days :-)

Thanks everyone for giving up your time to help out here.

kittyclaws · 25-06-2019 11:23am

Just popping in to say Good Luck to all of this years novices - you're in great hands, just listen to your mentors and you won't go wrong. I trained alone last year but found the support in this group amazing.
I followed the Boards plan and I felt great on the day, I was aiming to run the marathon in 4:50 and finished in 4:38. Aiming for sub 4:30 this year and I'll be following the same plan

Enjoy the training - now is the time to slow down your runs to ensure you do not get injured. Last year I treated myself to a monthly sports massage, I definitely recommend it.

Best of luck everyone

x

Rojo · 25-06-2019 11:42am

•Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

5k Marlay Parkrun - 21:32
10k Run in The Dark - 46:37
HM Amsterdam - 01:54:20

•Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?

No, unless I'm running too quick!!

•How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

Cycle at least 11km per day during the week for my commute. Only one or two runs per week currently so I'm jumping up a bit with my weekly mileage on this plan.

•What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

I'd love to just finish the bloody thing without killing myself ha. I'd be over the moon with a sub 4 finish.

•How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

I'm going to follow the HH novice 1 plan.

•What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?

Injury and not being able to finish.

•Why are you running this marathon?

I'd love to get one under my belt and I'd be delighted to do it in my hometown of Dublin. I think it's a huge challenge but I'd love to tick this one off.

Mr. Guappa · 25-06-2019 5:30pm

Treviso wrote: »

It's great that the mentoring thread has upgraded to 24/7 support!

Haha... just one of the "perks" of working night shift!

Mr. Guappa · 25-06-2019 5:47pm

There's a good few people waiting in the queue to join the Strava group. Drop me a PM with your Strava name and I'll accept you into the group.

eabha19 · 25-06-2019 6:49pm

Ran my first two easy runs on the plan today and yesterday but I felt as if I was phoning it in - whilst my clubmates were doing tempo on the track, I was jogging by with the dog! Have also decided to revise my goal time to 4:20 - based on my race times McMillan predicts 4:10 but I think they can be unrealistic. So I'm going to work towards 4:20 but will be delighted with 4:30 either. I've started obsessing already - the hubby will be well sick of marathon talk by October!

KGC · 25-06-2019 7:05pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I thought article on fueling, nutrition and hydration was worth sharing, if only for the line "you wouldn’t put p*ss in a Ferrari"

Cheers for that Mr. Guappa. Really good article. Have read lots of stuff on nutrition that seem overly complicated (or else I'm a bit slow!!!!). That kept it nice and simple.

Do people find getting into the habit of slowing down hard? Have been adding 30 - 60s/km to long runs. People give you strange looks when you tell them that your trying to slow down!!!!!

6run28 · 25-06-2019 7:13pm

Best of luck to all in here. Youll really get some expert advice from some excellent runners here. As someone else mentioned food & hydration is vital but one area that is often overlooked is sleep. You will be pushing your body hard over the coming months, getting sleep is vital to your immune system and also helps muscle recovery. A routine can be helpful (same time down and up each night/morning) but not always practical. Try get in an early night each week or a little extra each night especially when the mileage increases.

Enjoy ! Running a marathon is an amazing experience

Mr. Guappa · 25-06-2019 7:19pm

eabha19 wrote: »

Ran my first two easy runs on the plan today and yesterday but I felt as if I was phoning it in - whilst my clubmates were doing tempo on the track, I was jogging by with the dog! Have also decided to revise my goal time to 4:20 - based on my race times McMillan predicts 4:10 but I think they can be unrealistic. So I'm going to work towards 4:20 but will be delighted with 4:30 either. I've started obsessing already - the hubby will be well sick of marathon talk by October!

Sounds like you're getting the hang of the easy pace so... it should feel embarrassingly slow, like what-the-hell-is-the-point-of-this slow. Easy miles, day after day, week after week, are the foundation of a successful marathon. Nice work.

You're also on the right track about the prediction. McMillan tends to be over optimistic for novices, by some distance.

py · 25-06-2019 7:57pm

I feel like this should be the thread motto for the next 18 weeks.

Unknownability · 25-06-2019 7:59pm

About tomorrow's run, on the boards plan is it 4 miles at marathon pace and then strides ie controlled fast running?

pd79 · 25-06-2019 8:12pm

py wrote: »

I feel like this should be the thread motto for the next 18 weeks.

I read that as Trust Prosecco ðŸ€£

Mr. Guappa · 25-06-2019 8:25pm

Unknownability wrote: »

About tomorrow's run, on the boards plan is it 4 miles at marathon pace and then strides ie controlled fast running?

It's 4 miles at your easy pace. The strides can be done towards the end of the run, and it can be 4 miles including strides, or 4 miles plus strides as a bit extra, either is fine. From earlier in the week, a reminder on what strides are:

Strides are a running drill which will get you used to picking up the pace on tired legs without leaving your legs wrecked! In this case the strides prescribed should be 100m or 20-30 seconds long. We recommend you do the strides towards the end of your run preferably on a flat stretch of even road. These are not intended to induce fatigue, so allow for full recovery after each before attempting the next one. Jogging back to the start after each stride should allow sufficient recovery, but take longer if required. You can include these in the prescribed mileage or you can add them on as a little bit extra - either option is ok.

Each stride consists of 3 equal parts:
- controlled acceleration
- sustained speed of up to 90% of your max speed
- controlled deceleration

The important thing is to focus on form throughout; stay relaxed & run tall, watch that the shoulders aren’t being hunched/tensed up! Remember these are not a sprint, you should feel in control!

Unknownability · 25-06-2019 8:33pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

It's 4 miles at your easy pace. The strides can be done towards the end of the run, and it can be 4 miles including strides, or 4 miles plus strides as a bit extra, either is fine. From earlier in the week, a reminder on what strides are:

Thanks sorry, the colour confused me.

KGC · 25-06-2019 8:34pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

It's 4 miles at your easy pace. The strides can be done towards the end of the run, and it can be 4 miles including strides, or 4 miles plus strides as a bit extra, either is fine. From earlier in the week, a reminder on what strides are:

If not using the boards is it a good idea to do strides or intervals every so often? Even just as a way of adding something different to training runs?

Bananaleaf · 25-06-2019 11:11pm

Unknownability wrote: »

Thanks sorry, the colour confused me.

Me too, I would have done them marathon pace

DBB · 25-06-2019 11:19pm

pd79 wrote: »

I read that as Trust Prosecco ðŸ€£

I prefer your version

Mr. Guappa · 25-06-2019 11:33pm

Unknownability wrote: »

Thanks sorry, the colour confused me.

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Me too, I would have done them marathon pace

This came up last year too I think, so I've modified the colours and wording in the plan to hopefully clear up any confusion.

Mr. Guappa · 25-06-2019 11:57pm

Arsenium wrote: »

Hi everyone, I’ve followed this thread for the last few years and reckoned that I would contribute to it if I ever decided to do the marathon again.

I did DCM in 2015 so I’m not a total novice. I presume this is ok (see below).

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

5K – May 2019 – 20:00,
10K Dunshaughlin 10K 44:30,
Mullingar Half 17/03 – 1:42.
DCM 2015 – 4:31. Targetted 4:20 and was on target but cramped badly near the end. Lost the group and struggled to get going again after stopping to free the cramp.

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do) No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level. 4 -5 a week. Between cycling and running and swimming it could be 6 – 7. At the moment I'd be running maybe 25 miles a week.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time? 3:50 ideally. Sub 4:00.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? 6. Boards plan

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up? Sacrificing other training. Losing speed built up through training over shorter distances.

Why are you running this marathon? Running has come back onto my radar this year. I decided to step back from running and focussing more on multi sport / adventure racing / triathlon in the last few years. That got my love for running back and now I want to finally tick this marathon box and finish it happy.

Looking forward to all the information on here and all the advice on offer. 18 weeks...well 17 weeks and 5 days :-)

Thanks everyone for giving up your time to help out here.

Hello Arsenium, and welcome to the thread.

Those are some very impressive race times and suggest that, with the right training, your goal times are pretty realistic. I wouldn't worry about losing speed - many runners find that the aerobic improvements built up during a marathon training block lead to faster times at all distances post-marathon. Keep the training paces nice and easy and you'll reap the benefits in the marathon and beyond. Check out the McMillan calculator to determine appropriate training paces - you can keep towards the upper (slower) end of the ranges provided.

I'm not sure how much cycling and swimming you do, but you will possibly need to scale back a touch, especially as the training distances increase. Cross-training is an important element of the training, but so too is rest!

Mr. Guappa · 26-06-2019 1:04am

Rojo wrote: »

•Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

5k Marlay Parkrun - 21:32
10k Run in The Dark - 46:37
HM Amsterdam - 01:54:20

•Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?

No, unless I'm running too quick!!

•How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

Cycle at least 11km per day during the week for my commute. Only one or two runs per week currently so I'm jumping up a bit with my weekly mileage on this plan.

•What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

I'd love to just finish the bloody thing without killing myself ha. I'd be over the moon with a sub 4 finish.

•How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

I'm going to follow the HH novice 1 plan.

•What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?

Injury and not being able to finish.

•Why are you running this marathon?

I'd love to get one under my belt and I'd be delighted to do it in my hometown of Dublin. I think it's a huge challenge but I'd love to tick this one off.

Hi Rojo, and welcome

Those are some pretty impressive times off a low mileage base! It might be worth spending a week or two running three times per week and build up to the four days running - just to get your body gradually used to more frequent running. Your commute seems like the perfect distance to runmute - some people like to cycle in, run home, then the following day run in and cycle home. Not sure if that's an option for you though.

Mr. Guappa · 26-06-2019 2:04am

KGC wrote: »

Cheers for that Mr. Guappa. Really good article. Have read lots of stuff on nutrition that seem overly complicated (or else I'm a bit slow!!!!). That kept it nice and simple.

Do people find getting into the habit of slowing down hard? Have been adding 30 - 60s/km to long runs. People give you strange looks when you tell them that your trying to slow down!!!!!

Most people find it difficult to slow down at first, and find themselves speeding up if they stop concentrating on it. Keep at it, and easy will become easier :pac:

I get the same looks from people all the time - I sometimes run at lunchtime at work and they never cease to be amazed that it takes me an hour to run 5.5 miles.

KGC wrote: »

If not using the boards is it a good idea to do strides or intervals every so often? Even just as a way of adding something different to training runs?

It's probably best to stick with what's on your chosen plan, but I was looking back over your initial posts and was wondering if you would consider the boards plan? You did mention adding extra miles to the HHN1 anyway - the boards plan has extra miles - but you'd be well able for it given your recent training base. You're asking about adding strides too, so it seems like you're halfway there already! The boards plan does have one extra run per week, but it's just a 2 or 3 mile recovery (very easy pace) run following the LSR.

Mr. Guappa · 26-06-2019 5:38am

With the temperatures rising this week the effort level is going to be higher due to the heat - don't stick rigidly to a prescribed pace, everyone should be taking the paces handier to ensure that the effort remains easy.

It's also important to hydrate well throughout the day with plenty of water, and electrolytes. Now is the time to pick up some Zero tablets (or similar electrolyte product). When we sweat, we lose electrolytes, that’s why your sweat is salty. It's important to replace lost electrolytes.

Looking ahead to the longer runs at the weekend - think about how you are going to hydrate during the run. Maybe you will carry a bottle, or have a running belt that can hold a bottle, or bring €2 with you and chose a route that passes a shop. Some people chose a loop that means they will pass by their house or car a couple of times to grab a drink, or others even stash a drink somewhere on their route in advance!

Have a think about it and see what works for you. I have a running belt which holds my water bottle (amongst other things) and I bring €2 with me as well. I also bring a zero tablet with me and pop that in my water. This will become more and more important as the distances increase and the weather (hopefully) gets warmer.

positron · 26-06-2019 9:09am

One of the other annoying side effects of the warm spell would be lack of quality sleep - let it from enjoying one beer too many outside, or from others doing the same and keeping you awake, or general stuffiness even with windows open.

I struggled running a simple 7k last night and I think that was due to lack of sleep I got the night before (due to bad habits rather than heat, but anyway). Funnily enough, Garmin Training Effect now shows "Unproductive", which is such a demoralizing thing to see. I am yet to google to find out what that actually means but I hope it's complaining about lack of sleep & recovery, rather than lack of speed.

py · 26-06-2019 10:58am

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Looking ahead to the longer runs at the weekend - think about how you are going to hydrate during the run.

Has/does anyone used/use a hydration pack for their half/full marathons before? Interested to hear experiences.

jackc101 · 26-06-2019 11:11am

py wrote: »

Has/does anyone used/use a hydration pack for their half/full marathons before? Interested to hear experiences.

I used one on some of my prior training runs - not a specific hydration backpack but a small backpack with a 2 L platypus inside it. Went well until I took it on a 15 mile lsr and got the strapping wrong and got two bleeding nips

Never again...
So I carried a bottle / looped past the house depending on the distance

rainbow kirby · 26-06-2019 11:32am

py wrote: »

Has/does anyone used/use a hydration pack for their half/full marathons before? Interested to hear experiences.

There's always quite a few people around me (5 hrs +/- a bit) at marathons who do - the cheap Aonijie ones from Amazon are very popular as are the Decathlon ones. I wouldn't race with one but training is a different story.

Kellygirl · 26-06-2019 4:48pm

py wrote: »

Has/does anyone used/use a hydration pack for their half/full marathons before? Interested to hear experiences.

I have one that I used for training for my first 2-3 marathons. I found it brilliant as used about 1.5litres with a zero tablet into it and off I’d go. I never bothered for a marathon as they are handing out water so often anywayand wouldn’t want any extra weight - it never bothered me in terms of weight when training though and all the straps were adjustable so it didn’t bounce or anything. I got more relaxed with later marathons and tended to maybe carry one or two small 250ml bottle of waters and buy another en route.

Dealerz2.0 · 26-06-2019 5:04pm

py wrote: »

Has/does anyone used/use a hydration pack for their half/full marathons before? Interested to hear experiences.

I used one for recent marathon in May, no issues, weight on the back or shoulders wasn't a factor. Never used one for half marathons and only used it in training for the "big" long runs- 18 miles or more.

......cleaning and drying them out after use can be a pain!

KGC · 26-06-2019 10:06pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

It's probably best to stick with what's on your chosen plan, but I was looking back over your initial posts and was wondering if you would consider the boards plan? You did mention adding extra miles to the HHN1 anyway - the boards plan has extra miles - but you'd be well able for it given your recent training base. You're asking about adding strides too, so it seems like you're halfway there already! The boards plan does have one extra run per week, but it's just a 2 or 3 mile recovery (very easy pace) run following the LSR.

I did think about trying the boards plan but was sure that some weeks I wouldnt get to do all the days. I thought best to stick to a plan that I knew I would do rather than feeling that I was missing days. I did intervals one day last week just out of curiosity and to add a bit of variety. Dont want to increase risk of injury though I will just stick to the plan from now on though.

Bananaleaf · 27-06-2019 12:36am

I missed today's run. Something very upsetting happened to me on Tuesday evening and I got zero sleep Tuesday night. Most of today was spent dealing with the fallout from it and I got back home 25mins ago. Was determined to get the 4m done as I sort of wanted to be able to say that this thing didn't get in the way of my plan, so I got into my running gear at 5mins to midnight, but I just burst into tears once I got ready to leave the house.

I know it's not the end of the world but feel bad about missing a run so early in the plan. Kind of partly due to the circumstances too.

Posting here to (1) explain to mentors why I've no run logged for today and (2) this is the only place where I'm likely to be sympathised with for missing a run :pac:

On the plus side, my legs will be fresher than fresh for my club race on Friday now.

Mr. Guappa · 27-06-2019 1:03am

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I missed today's run. Something very upsetting happened to me on Tuesday evening and I got zero sleep Tuesday night. Most of today was spent dealing with the fallout from it and I got back home 25mins ago. Was determined to get the 4m done as I sort of wanted to be able to say that this thing didn't get in the way of my plan, so I got into my running gear at 5mins to midnight, but I just burst into tears once I got ready to leave the house.

I know it's not the end of the world but feel bad about missing a run so early in the plan. Kind of partly due to the circumstances too.

Posting here to (1) explain to mentors why I've no run logged for today and (2) this is the only place where I'm likely to be sympathised with for missing a run :pac:

On the plus side, my legs will be fresher than fresh for my club race on Friday now.

Sorry to hear about that Bananaleaf, sounds pretty distressing. Hope all is ok now. Unforeseen events will always get in the way of a run or two, so don't worry about the missed run.

I can definitely sympathise with the feeling of missing a run - I've been on the shelf 4 days due to a badly cut foot and I'm climbing the walls

Should be good to go tomorrow though.

If it helps to clear your head, two or three easy miles tomorrow with a few strides would be fine as a bit of pre-race preparation before Friday. Rest is equally fine though - whatever suits.

coogy · 27-06-2019 11:31am

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I missed today's run. Something very upsetting happened to me on Tuesday evening and I got zero sleep Tuesday night. Most of today was spent dealing with the fallout from it and I got back home 25mins ago. Was determined to get the 4m done as I sort of wanted to be able to say that this thing didn't get in the way of my plan, so I got into my running gear at 5mins to midnight, but I just burst into tears once I got ready to leave the house.

I know it's not the end of the world but feel bad about missing a run so early in the plan. Kind of partly due to the circumstances too.

Posting here to (1) explain to mentors why I've no run logged for today and (2) this is the only place where I'm likely to be sympathised with for missing a run :pac:

On the plus side, my legs will be fresher than fresh for my club race on Friday now.

Hey Bananaleaf, I'm sorry to hear about what you're going through and I know how frustrating is feels when you miss a training run, especially so early on in the plan. As Mr. Guappa said, life can get in the way which can be expected from from time to time so don't beat yourself up about it!

Hopefully, you can put it all behind you once you get back out there again!

Arsenium · 27-06-2019 11:33am

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Hello Arsenium, and welcome to the thread.

Those are some very impressive race times and suggest that, with the right training, your goal times are pretty realistic. I wouldn't worry about losing speed - many runners find that the aerobic improvements built up during a marathon training block lead to faster times at all distances post-marathon. Keep the training paces nice and easy and you'll reap the benefits in the marathon and beyond. Check out the McMillan calculator to determine appropriate training paces - you can keep towards the upper (slower) end of the ranges provided.

I'm not sure how much cycling and swimming you do, but you will possibly need to scale back a touch, especially as the training distances increase. Cross-training is an important element of the training, but so too is rest!

Thanks for the reply Mr Guappa!

I was hoping to maybe swap one of the rest or recovery days to maybe an easy cycle or swim, just to shake things up a bit if that's reasonable.

One thing I often wondered about, the DCHM is on the schedule of build up races (for example). Is it realistic to think that you should be able to run that half marathon (or any half) in Sept as fast as say a half you would have targetted and trained for pre marathon training? So at the end of Sept we will be most of the way through the training programme for DCM, should the DCHM be run at normal HM pace or used as a part of training. I know this is a long way out from here.

Also, those paces in the McMillan calculator seem a bit strange. For an 8:47 per mile target (3:50), it has the easy runs at 8:12 - 9:13 and long runs at 8:17 to 9:34 ???

Sorry for all the questions :-)

Singer · 27-06-2019 1:00pm

Arsenium wrote: »

One thing I often wondered about, the DCHM is on the schedule of build up races (for example). Is it realistic to think that you should be able to run that half marathon (or any half) in Sept as fast as say a half you would have targetted and trained for pre marathon training? So at the end of Sept we will be most of the way through the training programme for DCM, should the DCHM be run at normal HM pace or used as a part of training. I know this is a long way out from here.

Race the races. Run them as hard as you can. That'll give you the most insight as to where your fitness is at before the marathon, is a great workout and allows you to partially cash in on all that training you'll have been doing.

Mr. Guappa · 27-06-2019 2:50pm

Arsenium wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Mr Guappa!

I was hoping to maybe swap one of the rest or recovery days to maybe an easy cycle or swim, just to shake things up a bit if that's reasonable.

One thing I often wondered about, the DCHM is on the schedule of build up races (for example). Is it realistic to think that you should be able to run that half marathon (or any half) in Sept as fast as say a half you would have targetted and trained for pre marathon training? So at the end of Sept we will be most of the way through the training programme for DCM, should the DCHM be run at normal HM pace or used as a part of training. I know this is a long way out from here.

Also, those paces in the McMillan calculator seem a bit strange. For an 8:47 per mile target (3:50), it has the easy runs at 8:12 - 9:13 and long runs at 8:17 to 9:34 ???

Sorry for all the questions :-)

I'd keep the 5 days running, a sixth day for swim or cycle and one day of complete rest. If you wanted to add in another easy swim or cycle on occasion, you could do so on an easy running day.

We won't be tapering for the HM, and we'll be in the middle of the training block, so the legs won't be the freshest. As Singer says, race the races.

3:50 seems like a reasonable goal target for you at present, and we can round PMP to 8:45. On the excel doc containing the plans, to the side there is a legend, and it says easy runs should 45-60s/mile slower than PMP. LSR can be slower again. So easy at 9:30-9:45 and LSR at 9:45-10:00. I'd use that rule of thumb ahead of what McMillan is giving you. The easier the better.

Keep the questions coming. That goes for everyone - if you think it, ask it.

rizzee · 27-06-2019 3:53pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Keep the questions coming. That goes for everyone - if you think it, ask it.

What's the general rule if you're going to miss a day regarding making up milage etc?

I'm doing the HH plan, was planning on starting Tuesday as per the spreadsheet but got a last minute call Monday to head to the UK all day Tuesday for work, did my 5km Monday instead, had a 6 hour wait on flight tuesday evening so did a 14km walk (in shoes!) , feet were blistered and sore yesterday so rested, am I good for 5km today and tomorrow, then my 10km on Saturday or Sunday? (Sorry for the KMS I have my spreadsheet changed to them so the 3M I've rounded to 5km and so on)

Mr. Guappa · 27-06-2019 4:06pm

rizzee wrote: »

What's the general rule if you're going to miss a day regarding making up milage etc?

I'm doing the HH plan, was planning on starting Tuesday as per the spreadsheet but got a last minute call Monday to head to the UK all day Tuesday for work, did my 5km Monday instead, had a 6 hour wait on flight tuesday evening so did a 14km walk (in shoes!) , feet were blistered and sore yesterday so rested, am I good for 5km today and tomorrow, then my 10km on Saturday or Sunday? (Sorry for the KMS I have my spreadsheet changed to them so the 3M I've rounded to 5km and so on)

The general rule is not to chase lost mileage. But there has to be a degree if flexibility too. I'd push the 10k to Sunday, and do a 5k today and tomorrow/Saturday. That's providing the feet are ok of course - do nothing today if they are still sore.

DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

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