DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

py

Soulsun wrote: »

When is the boards and HH plan commencing?
only back from injury

Monday week, 24th June.

Soulsun

py wrote: »

Monday week, 24th June.

cheers

Mr. Guappa

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I have a couple more questions if that is ok.

For cross training Friday I think I will cycle. Am looking into a bike on the bike to work scheme. Is there any guide as to how long or intense this cycle should/could be?

Also, would it be okay to do a cycle AND pilates on that day if I had the time?

Last question - I would like to drive out to PP to do some runs over the next few months. No real hills where I am so I was thinking of going out the days that call for hill sprints and doing a run in the park and the hill sprints somewhere there too. Only way I know how to do this is go out and drive around the park, measuring out a route with the odometer and hopefully don't get lost. Is there a better way to figure out routes, or are there marked/suggested routes on an information board around the park anywhere? Not familiar with the park at all sorry.

Thank you

The more questions the better! The cross training activity should be of gentle intensity, especially if it's a new activity to you. Will you be keeping up the gym sessions too?

I use onthegomap.com to plot my routes. I don't know about the Phoenix Park, but it has 95% of the paths and trails around my way on it. Also find it handy for checking hills. There is only one hill session on the boards plan (Week 3), so don't worry too much about them.

gypsylee

Hi all. This is a shout out to the slow runners out there! If you are following this thread and have not posted or signed up to it because you feel that everyone else is so much quicker or so much fitter than you please do not let that stop you from joining in. I am a slow runner, I was the slowest novice last year (finished the marathon in 5 hours 46 mins - that slow!) and the support, advice and encouragement I got from everyone last year was just great. I would not have enjoyed the training and the day itself if I had been following the plan and experiencing the build up on my own and not been a Boards novice! So come on board

Bananaleaf

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

The more questions the better! The cross training activity should be of gentle intensity, especially if it's a new activity to you. Will you be keeping up the gym sessions too?

I use onthegomap.com to plot my routes. I don't know about the Phoenix Park, but it has 95% of the paths and trails around my way on it. Also find it handy for checking hills. There is only one hill session on the boards plan (Week 3), so don't worry too much about them.

Thanks!

I will keep up the gym but will be reducing down to one day per week - Monday.
Then Tues, Wed, Thurs, Sat and Sun running as per the plan and was thinking of doing a cycle on the Friday and maybe Pilates too.

I'm in the very fortunate position to be off work from next week until end of August so although I know it might look like a lot of training I wont have the stresses of the daily 9-5 on top of it, so hoping this will mean I'll be able for it.

Would a 1hr cycle at gentle pace be okay or does that sound like too much? Or 30km? I dont even know how long 30km would take at a gentle pace as I've never really done any cycling

Edited to say that I would maybe work my way up to 30km cycle eventually

ReeReeG

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Thanks!

I will keep up the gym but will be reducing down to one day per week - Monday.
Then Tues, Wed, Thurs, Sat and Sun running as per the plan and was thinking of doing a cycle on the Friday and maybe Pilates too.

I'm in the very fortunate position to be off work from next week until end of August so although I know it might look like a lot of training I wont have the stresses of the daily 9-5 on top of it, so hoping this will mean I'll be able for it.

Would a 1hr cycle at gentle pace be okay or does that sound like too much? Or 30km? I dont even know how long 30km would take at a gentle pace as I've never really done any cycling

Edited to say that I would maybe work my way up to 30km cycle eventually

I'm not used to cycling at all, and I take it from your previous post you don't do much of it at the minute either? Last week I started to do a few cycles in and out to work, and I could really feel it in the quads for my running then. So be mindful when you do them i.e. day before anything faster might not be great etc.



With regards to building up to 30km eventually, it's worth bearing in mind that your running will also be building in mileage so those rest days and recovery are extra important. Cross-training obviously has its benefits, but if it gets to a stage where you're just tiring yourself out even more for your next run, it's not going to be as helpful.

Doc76

gypsylee wrote: »

Hi all. This is a shout out to the slow runners out there! If you are following this thread and have not posted or signed up to it because you feel that everyone else is so much quicker or so much fitter than you please do not let that stop you from joining in. I am a slow runner, I was the slowest novice last year (finished the marathon in 5 hours 46 mins - that slow!) and the support, advice and encouragement I got from everyone last year was just great. I would not have enjoyed the training and the day itself if I had been following the plan and experiencing the build up on my own and not been a Boards novice! So come on board

Love hearing this! I am back of the pack too but love “running” long distances so here I am. It is easy to be intimidated by faster runners/training times but I’d say there are a lot of us on the slower side too so hope more join in the conversation as training progresses. Even in my faster days decades ago I never was lightening fast but still enjoy marathon training and race day immensely.

py

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Would a 1hr cycle at gentle pace be okay or does that sound like too much? Or 30km? I dont even know how long 30km would take at a gentle pace as I've never really done any cycling

Edited to say that I would maybe work my way up to 30km cycle eventually

You're going to need to know your heart rate zones. Active recovery on the bike has been great for me in the past after a particularly tough/long cycle. Going for a 1 hour Zone 1 ride has given the legs a boost the following day and got the legs back to feeling normal. As I mentioned in my post earlier about my marathon plans, I'll still be doing about 80Km each week in cycle commuting, all of this is going to be in Zone 1 so I don't blow my legs out of the water for my running. Z1 stuff can seem painfully slow at times too, it takes discipline (much like LSR) to stay at the pace required.

Huzzah!

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Thanks!

I will keep up the gym but will be reducing down to one day per week - Monday.
Then Tues, Wed, Thurs, Sat and Sun running as per the plan and was thinking of doing a cycle on the Friday and maybe Pilates too.

I'm in the very fortunate position to be off work from next week until end of August so although I know it might look like a lot of training I wont have the stresses of the daily 9-5 on top of it, so hoping this will mean I'll be able for it.

Would a 1hr cycle at gentle pace be okay or does that sound like too much? Or 30km? I dont even know how long 30km would take at a gentle pace as I've never really done any cycling

Edited to say that I would maybe work my way up to 30km cycle eventually

ReeReeG wrote: »

I'm not used to cycling at all, and I take it from your previous post you don't do much of it at the minute either? Last week I started to do a few cycles in and out to work, and I could really feel it in the quads for my running then. So be mindful when you do them i.e. day before anything faster might not be great etc.



With regards to building up to 30km eventually, it's worth bearing in mind that your running will also be building in mileage so those rest days and recovery are extra important. Cross-training obviously has its benefits, but if it gets to a stage where you're just tiring yourself out even more for your next run, it's not going to be as helpful.

Just to add that I think it might be worth scheduling one day that is completely off from exercise. You might be glad of it when you're deep into the training.

Bananaleaf

Huzzah! wrote: »

Just to add that I think it might be worth scheduling one day that is completely off from exercise. You might be glad of it when you're deep into the training.

Would you suggest leaving out the cycling in that case? At this moment in time I don't have a bike, so would be buying one. I'd nearly rather not bother just yet if you think I'd be better taking the break, as I'd be rushing into the buy really.

Will the gym suffice for crosstraining or would I be better not doing the gym and cycling one day instead? Would a long walk with the dog count for cross training?

Huzzah!

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Would you suggest leaving out the cycling in that case? At this moment in time I don't have a bike, so would be buying one. I'd nearly rather not bother just yet if you think I'd be better taking the break, as I'd be rushing into the buy really.

Will the gym suffice for crosstraining or would I be better not doing the gym and cycling one day instead? Would a long walk with the dog count for cross training?

It's really up to you. In terms of the gym, can you remind me what you do in the gym? Is it strength work? If yes, I'd be inclined to keep this. What I do - and it might not suit everyone - is do Pilates one morning a week and then my run in the evening, so that I can leave a day free.

A walk with the dog is a great form of cross training, imho. It's just to get the blood flowing and loosen out your legs. Equally, you could cycle if you'd prefer.

kyomi

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I think what you're experiencing over the past couple of runs comes from what we talked about before... you've far too many hard days in your schedule. I'd much rather see you do one midweek session, the weekend long run, and everything else easy.

For the rest of this week, everything easy is a good call. I wouldn't worry about scuppering the training, listening to your body and knowing when it needs a break is an important skill to develop. If it were me, I'd give tomorrow's run a miss, try for maybe 5 miles on Thursday but being prepared to cut it short if it's not working. Then see how you feel come the weekend.

Thanks Mr. Guappa. I took a day off yesterday and then did a slow 7 miles this evening (never went faster than 10 minute miles) and felt fine, so I'm relieved! Will keep the rest of the miles this week easy.

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Coming back to your plan; given that you've a very good base built up, I'm going to suggest that you take a look at the boards graduates plans. These are typically recommended for people who have come through this thread and are looking for a step up, but as I say you have a good base, and these plans have enough sessions so you find it challenging. The plans are here (check out the beginners marathon tab) and the paces are based on this calculator. It's up to yourself of course, but either way, I'd highly recommend far less sessions and far more easy days than you've currently planned.

I took a look at the graduate plans, and I think I'll take a leaf out of their book and have a maximum of one hard session per week, keeping the rest easy. Mileage-wise I'll stick with either my plan or the Boards 2019 plan, because I prefer to calculate it in miles rather than minutes. Actually, once I've replaced the harder sessions in my plan with easy runs, there's not much difference between the two plans - they both involve one session a week, one long run and three days of easy miles. I'll think about putting some practice races into mine as well.

Mr. Guappa

Ah I'm delighted to hear that kyomi! It's counter-intuitive to think that so much easy-paced running will get results, and requires a bit of a leap of faith, but it will pay off. Here's another article on the subject.

I'd definitely recommend squeezing in a race or two during the build up. A medium-term target helps with motivation, gives an idea how training is going, and helps judge the marathon target time. Plus, for inexperienced runners, the whole raceday experience can be full of unknowns, so the build up races give a chance to practice things such as pre-race preparations and fuelling, race clothing, start line nerves, race pacing, running in crowds, hydration, etc.

Bananaleaf

I ran with Ray in Kilcock this evening and recorded a 1 mile PB. Delighted. It may have even ended up a 5km PB if it wasn't so congested at the beginning, which is a very exciting prospect. Feeling confident about the slow running I must say, that is a PB in 1mile, 10k and Half since starting it.

ariana`

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

It's counter-intuitive to think that so much easy-paced running will get results, and requires a bit of a leap of faith, but it will pay off. Here's another article on the subject.

For anyone who still has any doubts, your esteemed mentor himself Mr. Guappa, has been regularly doing his easy runs at a pace of 10:40-11 min/m and recently ran a 5k race at 6:47 min/m. That's a whopping 4 min/m faster than his easy runs :eek:

In metrics, his easy pace has been circa 6:40-6:50 min/km and 5k pace is 4:13min/km (roughly!).

Pretty impressive results that can't be argued with, well done Mr. G.

py

ariana` wrote: »

For anyone who still has any doubts, your esteemed mentor himself Mr. Guappa, has been regularly doing his easy runs at a pace of 10:40-11 min/m and recently ran a 5k race at 6:47 min/m. That's a whopping 4 min/m faster than his easy runs :eek:

In metrics, his easy pace has been circa 6:40-6:50 min/km and 5k pace is 4:13min/km (roughly!).

Pretty impressive results that can't be argued with, well done Mr. G.

Congrats Mr. Guappa, that's a great 5Km time. What pace are you doing your LSR at?

Mr. Guappa

ariana` wrote: »

For anyone who still has any doubts, your esteemed mentor himself Mr. Guappa, has been regularly doing his easy runs at a pace of 10:40-11 min/m and recently ran a 5k race at 6:47 min/m. That's a whopping 4 min/m faster than his easy runs :eek:

In metrics, his easy pace has been circa 6:40-6:50 min/km and 5k pace is 4:13min/km (roughly!).

Pretty impressive results that can't be argued with, well done Mr. G.

Esteemed :pac: Thanks ariana'!

Just to provide a bit of added context on the above: This time last year I was running usually 3 times a week, about 15 miles per week, with each one of those miles being run far too fast. I couldn't get my head around marathon plans which had 5 days running a week - not a hope I'd be able for that. Thankfully I found the forum here, and under the mentorship of ariana' and her team, I realised that what I thought was an easy pace was nothing of the sort. That realisation was a game changer for me - running properly easy meant I was fresh enough for a 4th and 5th day running per week. The aerobic base that all this easy running helped me build is now paying off big time as I've been a bit of a PB machine this year BUT, I haven't done anything special to be honest, just followed the boards marathon plan and subsequent graduate plans and kept the easy truly easy.

Anyway, that's enough about me. I was wondering if anyone remembered to keep an eye on their form this week while running? A few things I've found as I've went along on this subject:

Run tall - Doing this gives the air an easier path to the lungs. If your hunched over you are working harder to fill those lungs.

Jaw relaxed - Try clenching your jaw when you run, you'll notice that your whole body tenses up. Relaxed jaw = Relaxed body.

Fingers relaxed - I used make a clenched fist when I ran, and found I'd get a sore back during longer runs. Since I've relaxed the fingers, the sore back has disappeared.

Shoulders relaxed - This one is a work in progress for me as I too often catch myself with shoulders too high.

Mr. Guappa

py wrote: »

Congrats Mr. Guappa, that's a great 5Km time. What pace are you doing your LSR at?

My LSR has been at 10:20 per mile, or thereabouts for most of this year.

Wombled

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Esteemed :pac: Thanks ariana'!

Just to provide a bit of added context on the above: This time last year I was running usually 3 times a week, about 15 miles per week, with each one of those miles being run far too fast. I couldn't get my head around marathon plans which had 5 days running a week - not a hope I'd be able for that. Thankfully I found the forum here, and under the mentorship of ariana' and her team, I realised that what I thought was an easy pace was nothing of the sort. That realisation was a game changer for me - running properly easy meant I was fresh enough for a 4th and 5th day running per week. The aerobic base that all this easy running helped me build is now paying off big time as I've been a bit of a PB machine this year BUT, I haven't done anything special to be honest, just followed the boards marathon plan and subsequent graduate plans and kept the easy truly easy.

Anyway, that's enough about me. I was wondering if anyone remembered to keep an eye on their form this week while running? A few things I've found as I've went along on this subject:

Run tall - Doing this gives the air an easier path to the lungs. If your hunched over you are working harder to fill those lungs.

Jaw relaxed - Try clenching your jaw when you run, you'll notice that your whole body tenses up. Relaxed jaw = Relaxed body.

Fingers relaxed - I used make a clenched fist when I ran, and found I'd get a sore back during longer runs. Since I've relaxed the fingers, the sore back has disappeared.

Shoulders relaxed - This one is a work in progress for me as I too often catch myself with shoulders too high.

Thanks a mil for all the advise Mr Guappa, taking heed and following. Back running 4 days a week now and up to 20 miles. Looking forward to starting the plan

Mr. Guappa

Wombled wrote: »

Thanks a mil for all the advise Mr Guappa, taking heed and following. Back running 4 days a week now and up to 20 miles. Looking forward to starting the plan

Nice one Wombled, it's great that you are back to where you were in March. You are well set for the training now. Will you be following the Hal Higdon plan, or the Boards one?

Wombled

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Nice one Wombled, it's great that you are back to where you were in March. You are well set for the training now. Will you be following the Hal Higdon plan, or the Boards one?

The hal higdon plan, realistically its suit with my work schedule and life style. As its my first marathon, finishing is my aim

Mr. Guappa

I've mentioned running form once or twice. The main reason for this is that running with poor form will require you to expend more energy - if you can improve your form, you will become more efficient and so save energy. One way to improve your form is to incorporate some drills into your routine.

At the moment I'd typically do half a dozen drills before an easy run, once, maybe twice a week. I'd suggest picking a couple of drills from the videos below and doing them once a week before a short, easy run. Once you are comfortable with those, then add another one or two to your routine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7tFiAL8-Rs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H8WLfyavWk

And yes, you will feel pretty self-conscious doing these :pac:

DeepBlue

I've been following this thread for the last while and I'm gonna board this train also.
I was having a post-parkrun chat with a regular sub 20 minute 5K runner today who told me his times only really improved after doing marathon training. Since I was already on the fence about (will I /won't I) apply for a DCM entry this tipped me over the edge and I'm gonna try get an entry when they're released on July 1st.

[*]Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
[*]Yes,
11/May/2019 5K 22.13
31/March/2019 10K 46.24
07/April/2019 10 mile 1.16.04
02/June/2019 Half Marathon 1.42.16

[*]Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
[*]No
[*]How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
[*]Currently am all over the shop with training. Up until a couple of months ago I was doing up to 28 miles a week but lately cycling has taken over. Thus I'm looking for a goal and a plan to get the running back on track.
[*]What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
[*]First goal is to complete it as it would be my first marathon. Sub 3.30 would the dream finish time but I'm not wedded to that. Will see how it pans out on the day.
[*]How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
[*]Going to follow the boards plan and should be able to do 85% of it minimum.
[*]What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
[*]Injury - especially the knees.
[*]Why are you running this marathon?
[*]To tick the box as I've never done one before. Also to improve my running times at other distances. To enjoy the journey and not focus too much on the destination.

Mr. Guappa

DeepBlue wrote: »

I've been following this thread for the last while and I'm gonna board this train also.
I was having a post-parkrun chat with a regular sub 20 minute 5K runner today who told me his times only really improved after doing marathon training. Since I was already on the fence about (will I /won't I) apply for a DCM entry this tipped me over the edge and I'm gonna try get an entry when they're released on July 1st.

[*]Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
[*]Yes,
11/May/2019 5K 22.13
31/March/2019 10K 46.24
07/April/2019 10 mile 1.16.04
02/June/2019 Half Marathon 1.42.16

[*]Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
[*]No
[*]How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
[*]Currently am all over the shop with training. Up until a couple of months ago I was doing up to 28 miles a week but lately cycling has taken over. Thus I'm looking for a goal and a plan to get the running back on track.
[*]What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
[*]First goal is to complete it as it would be my first marathon. Sub 3.30 would the dream finish time but I'm not wedded to that. Will see how it pans out on the day.
[*]How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
[*]Going to follow the boards plan and should be able to do 85% of it minimum.
[*]What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
[*]Injury - especially the knees.
[*]Why are you running this marathon?
[*]To tick the box as I've never done one before. Also to improve my running times at other distances. To enjoy the journey and not focus too much on the destination.

Welcome along DeepBlue - good to have you on board. Those race times are really consistent, there is no drop off in the relative times as the distance increases, so it seems you have a very good endurance base built up. Of course HM to marathon is a massive leap, but you seem well placed at this stage. There is one more week before the plans start - you don't say how much running you've been doing over the past couple of months?

DeepBlue

Thanks for the welcome.

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

There is one more week before the plans start - you don't say how much running you've been doing over the past couple of months?

Over the last 8 weeks it averages out at 15 mile per week.

I don't know if it makes a difference but I've doing 95 miles per week average of cycling over the same 8 weeks.

coogy

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

And yes, you will feel pretty self-conscious doing these :pac:

I'm looking forward to the return of dark mornings and dark evenings, haha!!

py

Just reviewing my plan before it kicks off on Monday week. For the race series events (or others for that matter), should we be running them at PMP, LSR or suitable race pace for the event distance?

Mr. Guappa

py wrote: »

Just reviewing my plan before it kicks off on Monday week. For the race series events (or others for that matter), should we be running them at PMP, LSR or suitable race pace for the event distance?

You can race those races that are on the plan - looking forward to the race reports already!

Mr. Guappa

DeepBlue wrote: »

Thanks for the welcome.


Over the last 8 weeks it averages out at 15 mile per week.

I don't know if it makes a difference but I've doing 95 miles per week average of cycling over the same 8 weeks.

Ah good stuff, 15 miles per week is a fine number at this stage. Maybe 18 easy miles next week and you'll be in good shape to start the plan.

Slowmojo

Right, time to introduce myself.

I’m slowmojo and I really and truly am a slow runner.

There was a time ~15 years ago when I could run fast and enjoyably. Then my mental health took a bit of a beating, which also affected my physical health, resulting in huge weight gain. Running went out the window.

I’ve come on leaps and bounds in the last while and my partner bought me an entry to DCM as a present to encourage me further. Still carrying a lot of extra kilos but they too will go eventually.

I haven’t much running done in the last number of years but will be slowly building back up to it. I’m not running 5K yet so both plans are a little beyond my scope yet. I have no times from races to go off so am just going out at a v slow pace (9:30 Km pace, yes other peoples slow mile pace is my KM pace!) but I’m delighted I’m able to get out there. I’m not working currently so have plenty of time on my hands and tipping away at it. I’m working through C25K and nearly there, still taking breaks but that’s ok as realistically I’ll be taking walking breaks in DCM too.

I know many of you will be reeling thinking I’m not able for DCM (1st marathon) but all I want to do is get around the course before they roll up the finish Mat and would be delighted to complete even if it takes 10 hours. Please don’t shoot down my dreams just yet!

I’ll be following along here although I won’t have much to contribute and I think I’m a slightly different case so not sure how much of the mentoring will apply but I’m determined to keep putting one foot in front of the other and getting out there.

Best of luck to all you speedy people!!