Bank of Ireland shares

codrulz · 05-08-2020 10:58am

Deleted User wrote: »

Stamp duty level makes it less attractive for this though.

Agreed, hence using a spread betting platform to avoid.. (don't judge!)

05-08-2020 10:58am

Mav11 wrote: »

I wonder will large provision have to be made for redundancy payments??

Yes, but the salary savings, while not booked, are expected to be greater.

codrulz · 05-08-2020 11:01am

Mav11 wrote: »

I wonder will large provision have to be made for redundancy payments??

it will be chunky enough for sure, here's a link to details on their previous round.

link

Dinarius · 05-08-2020 11:01am

All the long-term indicators have been buy/positive since April/May.

OBV, 50day EMA, MACD, etc.

The announcements regarding big buying over the last few months only confirm this.

The trend is up, and has been for a few months.

For once, BofI seem to be responsibly preparing for the worst rather than announcing it to us after the fact.

I wouldn't be short now, and I wouldn't expect to get them again at €1.60/70, barring bad news, which seems unlikely in the short term.

D.

Mav11 · 05-08-2020 11:03am

codrulz wrote: »

it will be chunky enough for sure, here's a link to details on their previous round.

link

Voluntary redundancy, just on the news. Will result in higher payouts to make the offer attractive.

codrulz · 05-08-2020 11:09am

Dinarius wrote: »

All the long-term indicators have been buy/positive since April/May.

OBV, 50day EMA, MACD, etc.

The announcements regarding big buying over the last few months only confirm this.

The trend is up, and has been for a few months.

For once, BofI seem to be responsibly preparing for the worst rather than announcing it to us after the fact.

I wouldn't be short now, and I wouldn't expect to get them again at €1.60/70, barring bad news, which seems unlikely in the short term.

D.

I agree, had a great run from €1.30ish to €2 a few weeks past so the stock owes me nothing at this stage. up ~€400 this morn since shorting at 2.03, will most likely take it and run...

BOI seem to be taking some promising steps, finally. I think the stock could definitely run soon but still struggling for now.

Timmaay · 05-08-2020 7:46pm

codrulz wrote: »

Agreed, hence using a spread betting platform to avoid.. (don't judge!)

Do you short it also, or just one direction? What's your entry/exits?

codrulz · 06-08-2020 9:06am

Timmaay wrote: »

Do you short it also, or just one direction? What's your entry/exits?

yeah, both ways. Long all the way up and until those low 2 levels break I'm going to short any rally.. when I saw we didn't break through 2.05 yesterday felt it had topped so shorted at 2.03 and still holding.

Mad_maxx · 06-08-2020 11:21am

codrulz wrote: »

yeah, both ways. Long all the way up and until those low 2 levels break I'm going to short any rally.. when I saw we didn't break through 2.05 yesterday felt it had topped so shorted at 2.03 and still holding.

I'm not smart enough for shorting but dumped a third of my holding at 2 euro yesterday, will buy back at 1 75

codrulz · 07-08-2020 9:12am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I'm not smart enough for shorting but dumped a third of my holding at 2 euro yesterday, will buy back at 1 75

Ah I wouldn't say that! back yourself and start small with well positioned stops if you want to start.

coming close enough to that 1.75 target no.

Mad_maxx · 07-08-2020 9:44am

codrulz wrote: »

Ah I wouldn't say that! back yourself and start small with well positioned stops if you want to start.

coming close enough to that 1.75 target no.

More not brave enough

Mad_maxx · 07-08-2020 4:48pm

Decided to buy at 1.82 before New York opened as I suspected Europe might rise post 2.30

Looks like I might have been right

codrulz · 07-08-2020 7:52pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Decided to buy at 1.82 before New York opened as I suspected Europe might rise post 2.30

Looks like I might have been right

funnily enough closed off around that price this afternoon.
Just saw/see better places to put that money atm - VIX/USDZAR/EURTRY

Mad_maxx · 07-08-2020 8:28pm

codrulz wrote: »

funnily enough closed off around that price this afternoon.
Just saw/see better places to put that money atm - VIX/USDZAR/EURTRY

It bottomed at 1.81 according to Google finance, closed at 1.87 according to the same site ?

I bought on the LSE as Google finance gives me a live price for that listing

Browney7 · 07-08-2020 10:32pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, but the salary savings, while not booked, are expected to be greater.

Potential for members of the DB pension scheme taking redundancy to not accrue any more service which would also benefit BOI

codrulz · 08-08-2020 10:22pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It bottomed at 1.81 according to Google finance, closed at 1.87 according to the same site ?

I bought on the LSE as Google finance gives me a live price for that listing

sorry - Meant I closed off my position around 1.82 !

Mav11 · 09-08-2020 7:12am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It bottomed at 1.81 according to Google finance, closed at 1.87 according to the same site ?

I bought on the LSE as Google finance gives me a live price for that listing

€1.869 at close, €1.81 in an after hours trade. Regular occurrence.

Mad_maxx · 11-08-2020 11:00am

Interesting to see if we close above two today, looking strong

Kickstart1.3 · 11-08-2020 11:21am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Interesting to see if we close above two today, looking strong

It would be a strong buy signal if it does

codrulz · 11-08-2020 12:15pm

Agreed. Close over 2 is a strong buy signal, risk sentiment changing a bit in the US and that’ll be the driver for BOI.

Timed closing that short well @1.82, and bought AIB @1:03 (which was undervalued, especially in the context of how BOI has performed over the last few sessions) up a decent chunk on that already and will sell and shift once I see BOI close >€2

Mad_maxx · 11-08-2020 12:39pm

codrulz wrote: »

Agreed. Close over 2 is a strong buy signal, risk sentiment changing a bit in the US and that’ll be the driver for BOI.

Timed closing that short well @1.82, and bought AIB @1:03 (which was undervalued, especially in the context of how BOI has performed over the last few sessions) up a decent chunk on that already and will sell and shift once I see BOI close >€2

The chunk i rebought at 1.82 last week, I sold this morning at 1.98, still have 25 k worth of the stock long ,if we close above 2 ,il seriously consider buying CFD,s as it should rise past 2.10 if we close above 2 itself

codrulz · 11-08-2020 1:01pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The chunk i rebought at 1.82 last week, I sold this morning at 1.98, still have 25 k worth of the stock long ,if we close above 2 ,il seriously consider buying CFD,s as it should rise past 2.10 if we close above 2 itself

Great, yeah I agree.. BOI is a great one to trade CFDs with, there some nice levels you can pick out for yourself.. best of luck

Mad_maxx · 11-08-2020 1:24pm

codrulz wrote: »

Great, yeah I agree.. BOI is a great one to trade CFDs with, there some nice levels you can pick out for yourself.. best of luck

A case of having raised cash by selling some and maximising available cash once it appears the stock is breaking out

Haven't traded this one at all in months until that 8 k tranche last week, purchase average is 1.51

Biggest obstacle to a breakout is it left it so late ,with S+P nearing all time high, we are very overbought in the broader market, Bank-Of-Ireland isn't lively to move too much higher if market pulling back

rugbyman · 11-08-2020 2:42pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

A case of having raised cash by selling some and maximising available cash once it appears the stock is breaking out

Haven't traded this one at all in months until that 8 k tranche last week, purchase average is 1.51

Biggest obstacle to a breakout is it left it so late ,with S+P nearing all time high, we are very overbought in the broader market, Bank-Of-Ireland isn't lively to move too much higher if market pulling back

ColdrulzI have read your posts with interest
You had a good run up to 2 euro and sold,as I did
Then, believing 2.05 to be a barrier ,you shorted the share,

That worked well, and you bought in at 1.82 ish to return them.

I too sold out my remaining sub 1.90 shares at 2.02 today, somewhat taking profit,and somewhat believing several posters that resistance was at 2.05
At this moment this remains to be seen today

But my question is "how do you short" i know what shorting is, that you borrow shares and sell them, hoping to buy back at a lower price, then return them.

How do you convince your trading platform that you have them to sell(perhaps i am naive and degiro will sell for me when i dont have them).

If you do need to convince your platform that you have them, how is it done?

I think i read somewhere that Degiro have the right to loan my shares to shorters(for a fee), it does not trouble me, i assume they have the dough to replace them.
Thanks in advance for any info

Mad_maxx · 11-08-2020 2:54pm

rugbyman wrote: »

ColdrulzI have read your posts with interest
You had a good run up to 2 euro and sold,as I did
Then, believing 2.05 to be a barrier ,you shorted the share,

That worked well, and you bought in at 1.82 ish to return them.

I too sold out my remaining sub 1.90 shares at 2.02 today, somewhat taking profit,and somewhat believing several posters that resistance was at 2.05
At this moment this remains to be seen today

But my question is "how do you short" i know what shorting is, that you borrow shares and sell them, hoping to buy back at a lower price, then return them.

How do you convince your trading platform that you have them to sell(perhaps i am naive and degiro will sell for me when i dont have them).

If you do need to convince your platform that you have them, how is it done?

I think i read somewhere that Degiro have the right to loan my shares to shorters(for a fee), it does not trouble me, i assume they have the dough to replace them.
Thanks in advance for any info

I didn't short ,I hedged my bets

Sold a quarter of my holding nine days ago or so @ 1.997 ,then bought back last Friday @1.82 ,sold that tranche today @1.98

Still holding most of what I've had for months

codrulz · 11-08-2020 2:55pm

rugbyman wrote: »

ColdrulzI have read your posts with interest
You had a good run up to 2 euro and sold,as I did
Then, believing 2.05 to be a barrier ,you shorted the share,

That worked well, and you bought in at 1.82 ish to return them.

I too sold out my remaining sub 1.90 shares at 2.02 today, somewhat taking profit,and somewhat believing several posters that resistance was at 2.05
At this moment this remains to be seen today

But my question is "how do you short" i know what shorting is, that you borrow shares and sell them, hoping to buy back at a lower price, then return them.

How do you convince your trading platform that you have them to sell(perhaps i am naive and degiro will sell for me when i dont have them).

If you do need to convince your platform that you have them, how is it done?

I think i read somewhere that Degiro have the right to loan my shares to shorters(for a fee), it does not trouble me, i assume they have the dough to replace them.
Thanks in advance for any info

Hi, I'm not too familiar with the degiro platform and I'm sure there's someone more able to help, but I'll give you what info I can!
You're bang on the money, to short a stock you don't need to own them. You can borrow those shares from a 3rd party in return for a fee - that same fee you're referring to from degiro. In my case I'm trading CFDs so its as simple to hit the sell button as it is the buy- no need to check account types etc.
I have linked the de giro page discussing short selling on their platform etc. you may need a different account type to short so doublecheck.

Best of luck.

https://www.degiro.ie/helpcenter/faq/trading/1127

rugbyman · 11-08-2020 3:03pm

Thank you both for your replies.
i too, am sucessfully trading in B of Ireland

So Coldrulz, when you short or buy using cfd`S do you avoid stamp duty?

I found a tutorial on shorting with degiro just now, hard to hear the chap. will pursue this line

I have read often enough of the dangers of CFD`s, so I will tread warily

Regards

Though there are many , holding at 3 euro, and more, I would like this turmoil to continue. I wish all those holders luck, but not just yet.

codrulz · 11-08-2020 3:56pm

rugbyman wrote: »

Thank you both for your replies.
i too, am sucessfully trading in B of Ireland

So Coldrulz, when you short or buy using cfd`S do you avoid stamp duty?

I found a tutorial on shorting with degiro just now, hard to hear the chap. will pursue this line

I have read often enough of the dangers of CFD`s, so I will tread warily

Regards

Though there are many , holding at 3 euro, and more, I would like this turmoil to continue. I wish all those holders luck, but not just yet.

yeah CFDs aren't liable for stamp duty (afaik), I actually use spread betting mostly which is also CGT exempt. just be sure to read up before, if you do decide to dip your toe.
Agreed, with leverage comes risk but play it safe, keep plenty of capital free as a buffer, only open positions at attractive levels and don't be cheap on your SL, BOI,AIB are rangebound enough to play around with CFDs/spreadbet on for now IMO.
https://www.cmcmarkets.com/en-ie/learn-spread-betting/spread-betting-vs-cfd

Mad_maxx · 11-08-2020 4:59pm

Time to go long now ?

Kickstart1.3 · 11-08-2020 5:11pm

I'll be adding now with a stop loss set at €1.79 but I'm confident that the worst is now behind us here

Mad_maxx · 11-08-2020 5:14pm

Usually a slight dip before 8.30 in the morning so I'll buy back tomorrow

Mad_maxx · 11-08-2020 8:56pm

As I alluded to earlier, stock may have left it too late to rally ,pretty sharp reversal on wall st this evening, predictable as the all time high was a whisker away

I won't buy tomorrow unless we are up strongly

codrulz · 11-08-2020 9:35pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

As I alluded to earlier, stock may have left it too late to rally ,pretty sharp reversal on wall st this evening, predictable as the all time high was a whisker away

I won't buy tomorrow unless we are up strongly

Yeah I think I agree.
Unless I seem some convincing price action tomorrow, I'll be shorting again. We are right back to where we were at the start of June/May/Mar Highs. if it heads north of 2.1 or sustains this level (2.05) and looks to break for 2.25 I'll be looking to buy dips.. if it doesn't I'll be selling the highs.

Mad_maxx · 12-08-2020 1:26pm

Dumped another 5 k worth at the open for 2.07 , think it will take a while for S+P to break through to new highs and that will hold us back here ,happy to be wrong as I'm still long a sizeable chunk

Mad_maxx · 14-08-2020 10:11am

Bought back this morning @ 1.87 ,didn't go with CFD,s

Wouldn't be surprised if it drops to 1.78 in coming day's but bought anyway

codrulz · 14-08-2020 11:21am

Shorted on Tuesday, added Wednesday with an avg price of 2.05- initial price target of 1.87 (where BOI gapped up last week) holding for now but may close of my EOD if there's not much more movement downwards.
Once AIB hits 1.03 or so I'll be buying in there.

Kickstart1.3 · 14-08-2020 11:42am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Bought back this morning @ 1.87 ,didn't go with CFD,s

Wouldn't be surprised if it drops to 1.78 in coming day's but bought anyway

I wouldn't be surprised hence why I put in a stop loss at €1.79. This is going to be a slow climb of the staircase with plenty slips on the way. I don't think anyone will suffer from fomo here for the foreseeable future

Dinarius · 17-08-2020 1:04pm

Here's the 5 year chart with the 50 day EMA.

Note that if you had bought when the price passed above the EMA and the EMA was rising and sold when it passed below, you would have made money.

But, note also that the long-term trend is very definitely down and is far from reversing.

D.

Mad_maxx · 17-08-2020 3:00pm

Dinarius wrote: »

Here's the 5 year chart with the 50 day EMA.

Note that if you had bought when the price passed above the EMA and the EMA was rising and sold when it passed below, you would have made money.

But, note also that the long-term trend is very definitely down and is far from reversing.

D.

Stock could rise 50% from here and the long term trend would still be down, it doesn't mean much

Dinarius · 17-08-2020 3:25pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Stock could rise 50% from here and the long term trend would still be down, it doesn't mean much

You’ve said exactly what I said, but in another way.

D.

Mad_maxx · 19-08-2020 12:56pm

Volatility appears to have reduced, no 25% swings in a long time now

Mad_maxx · 19-08-2020 12:57pm

Volatility appears to have reduced, no 25% swings in a long time now

Kickstart1.3 · 19-08-2020 4:11pm

Volatility gone for now. I think its due to a few of the smaller investment funds from across the pond adding positions.
I'll be using a trailing stop-loss from now on. I can see this recovering back above €3 but with Brexit back on the horizon the share price will be used as a punch bag to rattle weak holders.

sirboby · 21-08-2020 2:25pm

Kickstart1.3 wrote: »

Volatility gone for now. I think its due to a few of the smaller investment funds from across the pond adding positions.
I'll be using a trailing stop-loss from now on. I can see this recovering back above €3 but with Brexit back on the horizon the share price will be used as a punch bag to rattle weak holders.

1.78 now, Volatility is officially back

Kickstart1.3 · 27-08-2020 9:05am

Blackrock gone above 7% now. I had a feeling that they were lerking in the background. They spent the last week triggering the stops

Mav11 · 29-08-2020 8:12am

Kickstart1.3 wrote: »

Blackrock gone above 7% now. I had a feeling that they were lerking in the background. They spent the last week triggering the stops

Another big buy by Blackrock yesterday. Speculation is that they are preparing to do a pump and dump.

Unknownability · 29-08-2020 9:22am

Mav11 wrote: »

Another big buy by Blackrock yesterday. Speculation is that they are preparing to do a pump and dump.

Can you elaborate on the speculation? We've had this said numerous times about what they are doing, buying for someone else etc etc.

Mav11 · 29-08-2020 9:33am

Unknownability wrote: »

Can you elaborate on the speculation? We've had this said numerous times about what they are doing, buying for someone else etc etc.

Well, speculation is just that, speculation.

What is meant by "pump and dump" is: large quantities of the share is bought by a MM to pump up the value. When the price reaches a certain level the MM dumps all or part of their holding to either a) reduces losses or; b) increase returns.

This is why players such as Blackrock are known as Market Makers (MM),

Dinarius · 29-08-2020 9:35am

Unknownability wrote: »

Can you elaborate on the speculation? We've had this said numerous times about what they are doing, buying for someone else etc etc.

Indeed.

I too would like a link to this “speculation”.

Anyone who thinks Blackrock could “dump” a holding of this size at a profit, at these prices, either has no idea what they’re talking about or is short BofI and hurting.

D.

Dinarius · 29-08-2020 9:38am

Mav11 wrote: »

Well, speculation is just that, speculation.

What is meant by "pump and dump" is: large quantities of the share is bought by a MM to pump up the value. When the price reaches a certain level the MM dumps all or part of their holding to either a) reduces losses or; b) increase returns.

This is why players such as Blackrock are known as Market Makers (MM),

And you don’t know what a market maker is either.

D.

Bank of Ireland shares

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