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The Ultimate Irish Hunting Knife

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Comments

  • #502
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    bradnailer wrote: »
    Davy

    Does Paul Donnellan have anywhere on line where everyone can look at his work.

    Are you buying suminagashi in bar form and using stock removal to create the blade or forging it from a billet ?


    Paul is not online but you can take my word for it he is a very fine knifemaker.

    Yes I got the suminagashi in bar stock and it is the stock removal method.

    It looks like my son has managed to lose the SDS card for the digital camera I'll buy a replacement at the weekend but unfortunately pics will have to wait till then.


  • #503
    bradnailer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 493 ✭✭bradnailer


    Look forward to seeing the results.


  • #504
    Double Barrel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Double Barrel


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    Thoughts to work by.



    "Don't make something if it is not useful; but if it is both necessary and useful, don't hesitate to make it beautiful, as long as the decorative elements are an inherent part of the design and don't interfere with function." Shaker quote, 1810
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "It is my belief that it is of the very essence of every problem that it contains and suggests its own solution. This I believe to be natural law. Let us examine, then, carefully the elements, let us search out this contained suggestion, this essence of the problem. ............

    All things in nature have a shape, that is to say, a form, an outward semblance, that tells us what they are, that distinguishes them from ourselves and from each other. -- Unfailingly in nature these shapes express the inner life, the native quality, of the animal, tree, bird, fish, that they present to us; they are so characteristic, so recognizable, that we say, simply, it is 'natural' it should be so. (...) Unceasingly the essence of things is taking shape in the matter of things, and this unspeakable process we call birth and growth.(...)

    Whether it be the sweeping eagle in his flight or the open apple-blossom, the toiling work-horse, the blithe swan, the branching oak, the winding stream at its base, the drifting clouds, over all the coursing sun, form ever follows function, and this is the law. (...) It is the pervading law of all things organic and inorganic, of all things physical and metaphysical, of all things human and all things superhuman, of all true manifestations of the head, of the heart, of the soul, that life is recognizable in its expression, that form ever follows function." Louis Henri Sullivan
    http://architect.architecture.sk/louis-henry-sullivan-architect/louis-henry-sullivan-architect.php

    Enjoy your work Davy


  • #505
    glockNload
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭glockNload


    Hi Davy, I'm new to boards, and just tonight saw your knife project. I think its a fantastic idea, and as I collect knives it is of great interest to me. I have looked at knives around the world and traditional hunting knives all have one thing in common, they are all designed to deal with the local prey animal. I got the impression you wanted this to be like the knives our ancestors would have made. I feel maybe it is far too small at 4 inches. The prey our ancestor dealth with were deer and elk with antlers up to 12 feet wide, they also had to compete with bears and wolves, while a four inch blade may be more politically correct I fear it would be far too small for pratical purposes. Even on Crete which had no really large prey the tradional hunting knives are 6 inches long. Hope I'm no out of place making these observations.


  • #506
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    glockNload

    I dont expect that anyone in their right mind would have read all 30 odd pages of this thread but in brief we are not trying to design the Hunting knife of our ancestors but rather the Hunting knife for today and beyond.
    With that in mind we took into account current prey and modern requirements.

    By taking full advantage of modern day materials and resources (Steel etc.) we have set about designing and building a knife that will someday in the future perhaps be considered to be the knife that benchmarked the beginning of a new breed of hunting knife. One which is recognisable as the IRISH knife.

    It's extremely presumptuous to think that we mere mortals can pull it off but it's worth a bloody good try.

    Davy


  • #507
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    Well I'm not the worlds best photographer but here's a few pics of the progress to date as promised.

    The blade is not the suminagashi but a cheaper steel just to try out the style.

    1.jpg


    2.jpg


    3.jpg


    4.jpg


    5.jpg


    6.jpg


    7.jpg



    Any Thoughts ?


  • #508
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    THis is what we are aiming for ... Note the unusual pinning arrangement

    1.gif


  • #509
    macadam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭macadam


    Yes, Sun 23rd only
    Looks very short, is that 100mm long blade, great to see them all the same.

    Keep up the great work.

    I have a few knives for sale on the for sale/wanted forum, if any of ye hunting men are interested.


    Maca


  • #510
    Breachloader
    Closed Accounts Posts: 100 ✭✭Breachloader


    No
    That blade looks very fine, even with the cheaper metal... Why so many holes drilled in it though? the 5 pins and 1 lanyard i understand but not the others.. Is it to do with weight?

    Have you began shaping the timber witch elm handle yet.

    Also I think the addision of a Steel to the sheath would be a good idea (I saw you have them on some of the survival knives on your own site) as nothing is worse then a dull blade and a fine piece like this will certainly see alot of use and be best served if it gets a regular touch up to keep the edge keen.

    Keep up the good work Davy..

    Breachloader.


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  • #511
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    Breachloader wrote: »
    That blade looks very fine, even with the cheaper metal... Why so many holes drilled in it though? the 5 pins and 1 lanyard i understand but not the others.. Is it to do with weight?

    Have you began shaping the timber witch elm handle yet.

    Yes ... exrta holes are purely to remove weight from the handle

    No ... still playing with profile


  • #512
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    Also I think the addision of a Steel to the sheath would be a good idea (I saw you have them on some of the survival knives on your own site) as nothing is worse then a dull blade and a fine piece like this will certainly see alot of use and be best served if it gets a regular touch up to keep the edge keen.


    That steel you see with the bushcraft knives is a "FIRESTEEL" used for lighting fires,............ not a sharpening steel


  • #513
    lordarpad
    Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭lordarpad


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    I forget, did we have a false edge?


  • #514
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    2.gif


    Yes I am going to try to add the false edge. I don't know if the blade needs it but I'll do it and post the results and we'll see


  • #515
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    macadam wrote: »
    Looks very short, is that 100mm long blade, great to see them all the same.

    Maca


    8.jpg


  • #516
    mallards
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭mallards


    Yes, Sun 23rd only
    She looks good Davy. I could already imagine using it.

    Mallards


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  • #517
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    False edge ground in .... Do we keep it ?


    11.jpg

    9.jpg

    10.jpg


    It looks way better than I originally thought it would.


  • #518
    peter fox
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭peter fox


    Good idea let me know if i can help
    davymoore wrote: »
    A challenge for you ...

    Some of you may have seen THIS THREAD . Well from the general comments it seems that we have varied tastes when it comes to hunting knives in Ireland. From my own experiences I have found that knife styles vary from country to country and climate to climate. Take your typical Bowie knife it's a style well liked in the Western World but not so popular in Japan or the East where the Tanto or kukri are more in favour also if you look at the Scandinavians they have their own take on knife making.

    Which brings me to this point and question. Why don't we have our own knife? I mean a knife that is the ultimate Irish hunting knife, one designed for our climate, that reflects our heritage. A knife that is a real User and a knife that you would be proud to carry and showcase as "The Ultimate Irish Hunting Knife"

    Ok so a proposal then ...

    I suggest that YOU the Hunters, Users, design the ultimate knife.

    I will help by asking a series of questions regarding shape, style, material etc. We could vote on each section or question finally narrowing the whole thing down to the final design. Once the design has been voted on and approved I will build the knife.

    I will document the build and post a photo diary here.

    Now comes the nice part.....

    Each person who participates in the design thread is entered into a Raffle. I will draw a name from a hat at the end of the build and the winner will receive the original knife.


    Are you guys up for this ?

    If so let me know by reply to this thread

    Some rules will obviously have to apply and if we are to go ahead with this I'll clarify these later. First thing though is to see if there is enough interest in the build and whether it's worth bothering with.

    So .... over to you


  • #519
    Hibrion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭Hibrion


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    False edge looks really good, I think we should keep it.
    It'll look even nicer with the good steel.

    Keep up the good work Davy.


  • #520
    jwshooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,612 ✭✭✭jwshooter


    davymoore wrote: »
    8.jpg

    i dont like the shape of the blade even to cut a rope the blade is two rounded .
    more like a skinning knife that ultimate irish hunting knife .

    i think if you were to use this knife as your general every day knife you would get to dislike it very quick .


  • #521
    scuttlebutt
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭scuttlebutt


    Davy think it looks super, as for cutting rope its a hunting knife and surely that means a all rounder.


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  • #522
    triskell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭triskell


    Hi Davy, its comming on grand, without the handle and guard it looks out of proportion to me (I'm not used to seeing naked Blades), as to to the false edge I'm don't like it, it seems very skinny In my opinion either make it deeper on the blade or no false edge at all, But this is really a cosmetic issue so its down to personal taste and likes.
    Great to see it becoming a real thing, Great work Davy.
    When this is finished any ideas how many your going to make with the jap steel. Very limited quanities I suppose, So put my name on one now.


  • #523
    Smokeyskelton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 448 ✭✭Smokeyskelton


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    Hi Davy,

    Good work. I usually don't like a false edge, but I think on this knife it looks better than without it, but as already mentioned aesthetics are a personal thing. I suppose it's a judgement call, it should let the knife pierce a hide a little easier but also weaken the tip slightly.

    Personally I think the ricasso/choil is a little bit too big, again a personal preference. I know the finger guard will make a big difference, but even so I'd prefer it either smaller or just a small choil that does not give the option to "choke up" on the blade.

    However I'd like to repeat - great work. The back bolster shape and pins give it a distinctive profile. Keep it up.

    Smokey


  • #524
    Double Barrel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Double Barrel


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    Hi Davy et al

    A honest critique.

    I think the knife looks clunky.

    It needs to be streamlined.
    There is way to much belly in the blade. A very shallow blade radius would help with the knifes primary purpose "a hunting knife" and definitely help with proportional lines and visual effects.
    No false edge.
    Straight handle.
    The knife is not long enough for the handle design at the rear bolster. The larger curved end of the handle makes the knife look short and fat- clunky -


    I really believe we need to rethink the "tang issue" from the beginning .... But .... that is just my personal opinion.


  • #525
    lordarpad
    Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭lordarpad


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    Double Barrel wrote: »
    Hi Davy et al

    A honest critique.

    I think the knife looks clunky.

    It needs to be streamlined.
    There is way to much belly in the blade. A very shallow blade radius would help with the knifes primary purpose "a hunting knife" and definitely help with proportional lines and visual effects.
    No false edge.
    Straight handle.
    The knife is not long enough for the handle design at the rear bolster. The larger curved end of the handle makes the knife look short and fat- clunky -


    I really believe we need to rethink the "tang issue" from the beginning .... But .... that is just my personal opinion.

    Or if we don't want to rethink the tang issue, think slimmer? Also I thinkt the long ricasso emphasizes the chunkyness. Can we try slimmer, longer edge, shorter ricasso?


  • #526
    bradnailer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 493 ✭✭bradnailer


    Nice blade love the grind, well done.


  • #527
    wicklow newbie
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭wicklow newbie


    Yes, Sun 23rd only
    Nice but maybe a bit chunky?


  • #528
    pajero2005
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭pajero2005


    jwshooter wrote: »
    i dont like the shape of the blade even to cut a rope the blade is two rounded .
    more like a skinning knife that ultimate irish hunting knife .

    i think if you were to use this knife as your general every day knife you would get to dislike it very quick .

    I don't know much about hunting knives, but I would have to agree with jwshooter. It looks a bit rounded to me .


  • #529
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    Ok
    From the comments made it appears that the blade looks "CLUNKY" and that the deeper belly and long Ricasso are emphasizing this. It would appear that the overall idea is good but that we should go for a slimmer profile with a shorter ricasso. This to give the blade a more "AllRounder" feel rather than it's current "Skinner" appearence.

    Take a look at the image below (Apologies for my photography skills) is this the profile you want ?

    12.jpg

    I think ... from what I picked up from the latest comments, that the new profile (BOTTOM) is what you would like to see in the finished blade. It certainly takes out a lot of the belly in the blade and gives it a slimmer multi-task profile. This new profile though, does not!!, in my opinion, warrant a false edge and if we go with this shape then the false edge should be scrapped.

    Unfortunately I can take metal off but I can't put it back on so a new prototype will have to be made from scratch. Because the blade has already been "Hollow Ground" slimming down the profile of the current model is not an option as this would make the edge far too thick and of course I can't add material back to the ricasso area.

    This sets us back a couple of weeks but I'd rather we took the extra time and got it right rather than produce something that does not do the required job. That being said I don't want to spend the entire summer redoing prototypes. Therefore I need serious / relevant input so if you have anything to say about this latest design please say it now as I'd ideally like to have some available in time for this years hunting season.

    SPEAK NOW OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE

    All that being said I really, really do like the current model, false edge & all and I will definitely be making this design although perhaps as the "Ultimate Irish Skinning Knife" :D and I will have them available for anyone who like this design and wants one later in the year so it wasn't a lost cause. Who knows maybe someone with deep pockets might even want a matched pair..

    Regards

    Davy


  • #530
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    Double Barrel wrote: »
    Hi Davy et al
    I really believe we need to rethink the "tang issue" from the beginning .... But .... that is just my personal opinion.

    DB

    I made my opinion on this very clear from the start. I would have gone for a hidden tang rather than for the full tang and I still believe that this would have been the way to go.

    However the question was asked and voted upon and the full tang won out by almost a 3/1 majority so that's that.

    Full Tang it is ... I think Paul has done a marvellous job designing a handle for the knife I've seen some of his knives finished with this handle style before and trust me on this one folks, you won't be dissapointed in the finished article


  • #531
    lordarpad
    Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭lordarpad


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    Hi Davy

    thanks for that and yes that definitely looks more all round and more elegant. Would you mind terribly drawing in the false edge just to see what it wouyld look like?

    cheers


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  • #532
    jwshooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,612 ✭✭✭jwshooter


    getting the now davy, but i would still like the way the first blade hollow ground and the false edge. will keep the blade slim n east to put a very sharp edge to.


  • #533
    lordarpad
    Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭lordarpad


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    jwshooter wrote: »
    getting the now davy, but i would still like the way the first blade hollow ground and the false edge. will keep the blade slim n east to put a very sharp edge to.

    seconded


  • #534
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    Shown now with proposed false edge the problem is that there probably wont be enough material (Thickness left to grind this edge in. but we shall see...

    13.jpg





    What I am trying to say about the false edge on the knife is that because we are slimming down the blade, I have to go down to a 10" wheel to hollow out the blade grind properly this will leave less material on the spine of the blade and therefore might make it impossible to achieve a false edge without completely weakening the spine. At the moment I am only surmizing this and will have to wait till I have the new shape ground out before I know for sure.

    Davy


  • #535
    bradnailer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 493 ✭✭bradnailer


    I think you should finish your prototype before you go changing anything, it's one thing looking at a blade in 2D on a screen and a different matter altogether holding it in your hand as you can. The current long "Choil" in front of the guard allows you to place your index finger past the guard so your hand is positioned higher on the blade for when you need a more intimate level of control.
    Again I think it looks great and the lack of a handle may be making the ground area look small.

    And another thing that choil is going to be an asset in keeping that edged well honed lots of space.


  • #536
    Breachloader
    Closed Accounts Posts: 100 ✭✭Breachloader


    No
    Hey Davy,

    I think the first design looks perfect (false edge and all), if you make knives of this blade design down the road, you can sign me up, I'll definitely buy one.

    Looking forward to the next stage.
    Keep up the good work..

    Breachloader


  • #537
    wicklow newbie
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭wicklow newbie


    Yes, Sun 23rd only
    lordarpad wrote: »
    seconded
    Likewise.


  • #538
    Offy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    Some time ago you asked for the views of designers so there one. Don't judge the component until you see the finished assembly.
    Last Friday I received some sample components from a firm in India. They didn't look good. I used some very accurate optical measuring equipment to inspect them. They were damn good samples and fitted the assembly very well. Looks can be deceiving.
    I like both blades but its to soon to judge the knife.


  • #539
    Double Barrel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Double Barrel


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    Point taken Davy. I am well aware of your preference as is evident by the knives you build and what you have written on this forum. Just stirring the pot .. :D ..

    The profile in the background has that streamlined "pointy" look to it a la Bowie, Buck, Randell (Pathfinder, Denmark etc.)

    3506126079_b16e5f689d_o.jpge1e83.jpg

    I trust your judgement on the handle as you have seen this builders work.


  • #540
    Smokeyskelton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 448 ✭✭Smokeyskelton


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    I think I prefer the second design, but as you said, I don't think the false edge is necessary on the more streamlined blade.

    I hope all your hard work pays off with orders.

    Smokey


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  • #541
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    I'm up the walls with orders as is .... I hope we come up with a great knife

    I think we will ... we already accidently came up with a great skinner


  • #542
    jwshooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,612 ✭✭✭jwshooter


    the ultimate irish knife collection .


  • #543
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    Ok folks the new shape has been ground out

    Once again I'm no photographer so apologies in advance.

    14.jpg

    15.jpg

    16.jpg


    17.jpg


    I think this works

    There is still room for a false edge so I'll get that on tomorrow (Have to head out for a confirmation today)

    Let me know what you think

    Davy


  • #544
    jwshooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,612 ✭✭✭jwshooter


    NICE


  • #545
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    Photoshop Handle just to give you an idea of a full blade

    18.jpg


  • #546
    wicklow newbie
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭wicklow newbie


    Yes, Sun 23rd only
    Looks very good.


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  • #547
    Double Barrel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Double Barrel


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    Davy

    Coming along nicely.


  • #548
    bradnailer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 493 ✭✭bradnailer


    Thought your first blade was better had an original look to it and seemed to be more robust and practical.


  • #549
    davymoore
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    New Shape, False edge now ground in

    19.jpg


    20.jpg

    Any Thoughts ?


  • #550
    jwshooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,612 ✭✭✭jwshooter


    thats a fine looking blade davy,


  • #551
    lordarpad
    Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭lordarpad


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    jwshooter wrote: »
    thats a fine looking blade davy,

    seconded. I prefer it to the first attempt.


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