The Ultimate Irish Hunting Knife

Mellor

Maybe, I don't know yet.

I had kept this out of posts while we were still on blade shape.
But the grind is very important, obviously.
Alot of the off the shelf manufactured knives come with a hollow grind.
Mainly because, it look well in the way it reflects light and it also produces a very acute angle (for a given thickness and width) which means a sharp knife.

But the problem with it, in my opinion, is that its much harder to maintain a hollow grind when sharpening with hand tools in the field.

For me, the best grind is a good old flat grind. It lends its self to regular quick sharpenings much more than any other blade. A quick run over before a job and your are at 100% all the time.

Offy

The Pathfinder certainly has a great profile.
I think about 3mm would be nice, a little weight in the blade is nice. IMO

mallards

Yes, Sun 23rd only

I was trawling through the net, as you do, and came across these hand made knives from Russia. Some are a little showy but the others seems very practicle. I like the middle one of this bunch. It doesn't seem too cluttered and would do all the things I could ask of it.

knife.jpg

http://www.maximknives.com/hunting.htm

Off course, its not an Irish knife, but it could be!

Mallards.

triskell

Offy wrote: »

The Pathfinder certainly has a great profile.
I think about 3mm would be nice, a little weight in the blade is nice. IMO

+1 I like the profile, 3mm is good, a bit of heft for chopping bones but the straight grind looks to manufactured to me almost unatural. any thoughts on handle material?

jwshooter

this one knife i like to use a lot its light ,small, sharp,not over priced, i can kill skin and break down any thing in this land with it .
every one is posting exotic knifes from around the world .
where hell would ya be going with a knife with blade 220 mm long,3mm thick .
chopping bone what would you want to chop bone for .

get real about it

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Double Barrel wrote: »

Davy,

Can the blank be sourced from others? It is an unusual grind but we are building the ultimate.

A forged hidden tang or full makes little difference to me, it's not a crowbar.
Blade thickness at this point is best left to the knifemaker imo, that said 3.5mm should work.

I doubt you could find that blank anywhere

for me 3mm but we shall see......

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

jwshooter wrote: »

this one knife i like to use a lot its light ,small, sharp,not over priced, i can kill skin and break down any thing in this land with it .
every one is posting exotic knifes from around the world .
where hell would ya be going with a knife with blade 220 mm long,3mm thick .
chopping bone what would you want to chop bone for .

get real about it

JW ... while I 100% agree with your theories regarding blade length and fit for purpose ... I am also intrigued with the coparrisons to other knives from around the world. The Irish identity part of the project is going to be [in my opinion] the hardest part of this entire project.

jwshooter

by the looks of it davy we will we able to dig spuds with it ,more irish than that we cant get.

triskell

jwshooter wrote: »

this one knife i like to use a lot its light ,small, sharp,not over priced, i can kill skin and break down any thing in this land with it .
every one is posting exotic knifes from around the world .
where hell would ya be going with a knife with blade 220 mm long,3mm thick .
chopping bone what would you want to chop bone for .

get real about it

very relevant for me. the pelvic and neck bones of fallow or red deer here in ireland. for me a knife that i can use to quarter a carcase before i drag it out.
3mm gives it strength along the spine.
this is like the whole deer hunting caliber issue some think the 270 is the dogs b**lix and some think otherwise
it's all down to personal opinion, so lets keep it civil

jwshooter

if you back packing out your kill and boning it out on the spot you still dont cut bone.

who is the most iconic out doors man of out time , foraging for food from shore to the hill and all over the world
he is a hunter from deer to squirrels and famous for his bushcraft.
he uses a light knife of 10 cm s long blade,

ray mears is his name .

triskell

jwshooter wrote: »

if you back packing out your kill and boning it out on the spot you still dont cut bone.

who is the most iconic out doors man of out time , foraging for food from shore to the hill and all over the world
he is a hunter from deer to squirrels and famous for his bushcraft.
he uses a light knife of 10 cm s long blade,

ray mears is his name .

It's already being decided that 4"/ 100mm was ideal for what we were going for, and i completely agree with you that any thing longer is both unsuitable and awkard to use as i have found out from experience.
Very true about Ray mears his personal knife is the hand made one from finland or sweden.
But i also see him carrying a serious machete (depending on the location) . buts thats neither here nor there, lets get back to the Irish Knife.

Mellor

Maybe, I don't know yet.

Wouldn't he carry his own bushcraft knife, ie the one he designed.

Bear Grills > Ray Mears

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

The Ray Mears knife is called a Woodlore
that design is now ranked as the Ultimate Bushcraft Knife and certain models can attract a lot of attention on ebay

See Here

I've done more than a few woodlore clones in my time and actually have 6 of them on the go in the workshop at the moment.

Smokeyskelton

Maybe, I don't know yet.

Hello all,

Hope you don't mind me butting in, but I've been following disucssions with interest.

I'd agree with a 4" or even 4.5" full tang or tapered tang.

Personally when it comes to Randal categories I like Outdoors man groups A and I and Hunter group H (if that makes sense - the Randall website is a bit confusing).

I like the idea of stag for handles, but as this is a full tang it might not work that well. A deep rich coloured wood with high gloss would look good perhaps, not took dark like walnut though, but that is a matter of taste. Brass Corby bolts might give a good tradational look. Red or white liners between the tang and the handles could make a strong contrast for visual interest, black would be more subtle.

Mosaic pins are an option, but it might be a bit too fussy on a working knife.

Just my 2 cents worth, hope you don't mind. I'm sorry if I've skipped ahead too much (or indeed if I'm lagging behind). I'll follow your future career with interest .

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Feel free to butt in, you are very welcome

We haven't got around to handle options yet and the Randall style blades do seem to be appealing to most peoples tastes.

Going back to the very first post.........

From my own experiences I have found that knife styles vary from country to country and climate to climate. Take your typical Bowie knife it's a style well liked in the Western World but not so popular in Japan or the East where the Tanto or kukri are more in favour also if you look at the Scandinavians they have their own take on knife making.

Which brings me to this point and question. Why don't we have our own knife? I mean a knife that is the ultimate Irish hunting knife, one designed for our climate, that reflects our heritage. A knife that is a real User and a knife that you would be proud to carry and showcase as "The Ultimate Irish Hunting Knife"

It's important that we don't simply end up with a Randall Clone. The blade style suits our needs in the field and that's brilliant.

But what is going to make this knife distinctly Irish ? We could stick celtic engraving or connemara marble etc. on it and have something that would sell at a Duty Free tourist trap but this is not the answer.

Like a Tanto says Japanese, or a Polar says I'm Scandinavian we need to INVENT a brand new look and feel.

This is going to be a very difficult task. Which is why if any of you have any artistic minded friends designers, sculptors, wood turners etc. It would be wonderful to have them involved.

J.R.

Maybe, I don't know yet.

Perhaps a Celtic design from the book of Kells could help give the knife an Irish flavour, incorporated into the handle, end cap or sheath.

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Please,
Please ,
Please,

dont take offence ..... but this is ...Exactly... where I do NOT want to go

lordarpad

Maybe, I don't know yet.

I agree davy, but he problem is that we have 2 options:

- find a historic irish knife shape, which post bronze age is difficult
- invent something from whole cloth - dubious
- copy something

now that i have proven that I can't count I still think that #1 is our best bet. Either play with teh shape of the Seax or go back to bronze age amd maybe find a way to take the leaf blade shape and turn it into something more modern? Would that be a feasible road?

triskell

J.R. wrote: »

Perhaps a Celtic design from the book of Kells could help give the knife an Irish flavour, incorporated into the handle, end cap or sheath.









[IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t270/jimryan_photos/Ebony20 Viking.jpg[/IMG]

Some absolutely stunning knives there. I quite happpily spend a weeks wages on the 2nd one beautifol handle but not to flashy or touristie tack

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

I quite happpily spend a weeks wages on the 2nd one beautifol handle but not to flashy or touristie tack

This, I think, is definitely the best of the lot

5th knife down on this page

Mellor

Maybe, I don't know yet.

lordarpad wrote: »

I agree davy, but he problem is that we have 2 options:

- find a historic irish knife shape, which post bronze age is difficult
- invent something from whole cloth - dubious
- copy something

now that i have proven that I can't count I still think that #1 is our best bet. Either play with teh shape of the Seax or go back to bronze age amd maybe find a way to take the leaf blade shape and turn it into something more modern? Would that be a feasible road?

I really think #1 is a bad idea. We are looking to design a hunting knife. Not and historic irish knife. Even if we found a bronze age knife they are two huge flaws here.

1. It would most likely be unsuitable for use as a hunting knife,
2. The adapted design would most likely not be recognaised to anyone outside of here as being of irish heritage. Thus losing the point of going that route


As for a "celtic" design in the handle or blade. I really think thats a bit tacky. And also, celtic is most certainly not irish. Some of the designs are above could be considered just as much french.


My opinion (and just an opinion)
Design our blade. The blae designed by the irish hunting community for use in irish fields, suitable for as much of the irish quarry as possible,
Design our handle. Use a material that is fundamentally irish. A process that is irish. And as Davy would like to market this, something easily sourced ( one offs could have more unique handles - elk/marble etc)

jwshooter

davymoore wrote: »

This, I think, is definitely the best of the lot

5th knife down on this page

the finest knife of the group is the shorty second last ,
lovely shape to the blade and the right length

lusoshooter

davymoore wrote: »

Feel free to butt in, you are very welcome

We haven't got around to handle options yet and the Randall style blades do seem to be appealing to most peoples tastes.

Going back to the very first post.........



It's important that we don't simply end up with a Randall Clone. The blade style suits our needs in the field and that's brilliant.

But what is going to make this knife distinctly Irish ? We could stick celtic engraving or connemara marble etc. on it and have something that would sell at a Duty Free tourist trap but this is not the answer.

Like a Tanto says Japanese, or a Polar says I'm Scandinavian we need to INVENT a brand new look and feel.

This is going to be a very difficult task. Which is why if any of you have any artistic minded friends designers, sculptors, wood turners etc. It would be wonderful to have them involved.

Does not matter what kind of knife gona be born from here, will be a Irish one ,because will be made at the image from all the input of only Irish outdoor mans,tradition born where somebody adopts something and keep use it for years and years , I not Irish but for sure all you guys can find same sort of symbol that can be related to Ireland any where in the world and put it in the knife blade or handle so if the born knife is a good one will be made in traditional by all the Irish outdoors mans matter out.;)

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

lusoshooter wrote: »

Does not matter what kind of knife gona be born from here, will be a Irish one ,because will be made at the image from all the input of only Irish outdoor mans,tradition born where somebody adopts something and keep use it for years and years , I not Irish but for sure all you guys can find same sort of symbol that can be related to Ireland any where in the world and put it in the knife blade or handle so if the born knife is a good one will be made in traditional by all the Irish outdoors mans matter out.;)

This is a great post well done sir ...

lordarpad

Maybe, I don't know yet.

davymoore wrote: »

This is a great post well done sir ...

++

IRLConor

New poll available: blade thickness.

jwshooter

this my buck 110 folder i just got back from the us after a new blade fitted for just 10 bucks including post .
to my mind its the best hunting knife any one any where can use .
3mm thick ,blade length 95cm ,420 hc stainless steel .
you would shave a cat with it .
i skinned the last 3 calfs this eve with it and broke them down glad to have it back .

ormondprop

nice post davy, i dont like a very thick blade on my knives as i find dem too heavy and harder to sharpen so i'd go for a 2mm or 3mm at max, the knife i use at the moment is a buck bantam and i cant fault it, although i dont shoot deer its slices through a fox tail like butter and its good for butchering rabbits or when ever else its needed even around the farm

mallards

Yes, Sun 23rd only

I know we are quite far down the line with this and I wasn't sure if we had to stick to the blade templates given. but I had an idea. If I moved the handle further up the blade it gives a unique looking knife plus better control over the blade. It would allow more force to be used for chopping or on the point of the blade to cut through gristle and sinew. My drawing skills are kack but with the right shaped blade and handle material.......




Mallards

meathstevie

Looks like it could be very suitable for skinning larger animals and butchering smaller game in my opinion.