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Air BnB [and other platforms] to be effectively outlawed in high demand areas

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    #362
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,084 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    VeryTerry wrote: »
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dublin-city-council-seeks-400-000-to-set-up-taskforce-to-crack-down-on-airbnbs-1.3708469%3fmode=amp

    They're going to spend 400,000 so I'd expect that somebody will listen and I'd imagine pissed off neighbors will be top of the pile.

    €400k, wow. You seem to be missing the point, in order to prosecute, the council or whoever is going to “police” it, are literally going to have to catch the guest in the property, online bookings will not be proof enough. So, leaving aside all the administrative/set up costs, 400k will probably employ around 4 people (each one needs a car of course to travel to property) How many will jump in their car to rush straight to you when you phone? The guest may well be gone the following morning.


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    #363
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    Dav010 wrote: »
    €400k, wow. You seem to be missing the point, in order to prosecute, the council or whoever is going to “police” it, are literally going to have to catch the guest in the property, online bookings will not be proof enough. So, leaving aside all the administrative/set up costs, 400k will probably employ around 4 people (each one needs a car of course to travel to property) How many will jump in their car to rush straight to you when you phone? The guest may well be gone the following morning.


    True. And most people on Airbnb say ask you to just say you are a friend if anyone asks who you are at the apartment. Any of us who stay in Airbnbs know this is ode for, my Neighbors might not like you staying so tell them nothing please. Im sure anyone who isn't Airbnb will have the same instructions.

    Imagine the vast resources directed at catching boyfriends staying in council properties they aren't supposed to be staying in. And imagine all of the neighbors willing to report that.

    And that really works out doesn't it. Must cost millions.


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    #364
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    From the forum charter:
    Giving Legal Advice / Advocating illegal activity
    Illegal stuff is illegal. It’s site-wide policy that advice, hints or suggestions of illegal or dubiously legal action are forbidden. Same applies to users who are looking for ways to circumvent situations in an illegal manner. Posts will be removed or snipped and the user may incur a ban or infraction for it.


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    #365
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Kidkinobe wrote: »
    Reading the threads in here, there seems to be a lot of people saying 'Landlords are giving up on land lording because its just got too difficult and not worth the grief'
    If there are any Airbnb hosts in here, do you intend to continue airbnb'ing under the new rules and regs or just giving up on it?
    Govt are saying rental prices are high because of landlords preferring the Airbnb system and the financial return but in the same breath, making it very difficult for private landlords to break even.
    Seems like a catch 22 system where no one will actually benefit from anything.
    Worth a discussion I thought...

    If over the space of 10yrs a LL you make a 5-10k loss through overholding and/or damage. How much will you have to earn to cover that, and make money on top to make it worthwhile. Assuming you own the place (no mortgage) at the start and its worth the same at the end of the 10yrs.


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    #366
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    LotharIngum wrote: »
    Imagine the vast resources directed at catching boyfriends staying in council properties they aren't supposed to be staying in. And imagine all of the neighbors willing to report that.

    This is a great point, and doesn't bode well for the Airbnb enforcement.


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    #367
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Kidkinobe wrote: »
    If they want to hide how they use their homes, they will have to hide their income .

    No they don't.

    The ann usual return will show a euro amount of rent received, upon which taxes will be levied.


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    #368
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    No they don't.

    The ann usual return will show a euro amount of rent received, upon which taxes will be levied.

    And if someone was to take in money tonight for a short term let, they don't have to even think about paying the tax for almost 2 years.


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    #369
    Kidkinobe
    Site Banned Posts: 160 ✭✭Kidkinobe


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    No they don't.

    The ann usual return will show a euro amount of rent received, upon which taxes will be levied.

    The new regs are not solely confined to Airbnb, they are across the board for all short term lets no matter which website you use to advertise your property. Airbnb will share info with the inland revenue but I assume the other 'short term let' sites such as daft.ie don't. I guess it comes down to whether people want to break the law or not, but by all accounts, there will be a paper/data trail if you do advertise via short term let sites.


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    #370
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    Kidkinobe wrote: »
    The new regs are not solely confined to Airbnb, they are across the board for all short term lets no matter which website you use to advertise your property. Airbnb will share info with the inland revenue but I assume the other 'short term let' sites such as daft.ie don't. I guess it comes down to whether people want to break the law or not, but by all accounts, there will be a paper/data trail if you do advertise via short term let sites.


    Advertising is not breaking the law.

    And there are hundreds of sources of short term letting if you look for them.


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    #371
    Kidkinobe
    Site Banned Posts: 160 ✭✭Kidkinobe


    LotharIngum wrote: »
    Advertising is not breaking the law.

    And there are hundreds of sources of short term letting if you look for them.

    Yes, but renting out your house/apartment for more than the set periods as to be introduced by the new rules and regs will be breaking the law.


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    #372
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Fol20 wrote: »
    I dont ll for airbnb and personally believe most wont get planning permission to keep it as airbnb. I think we will see that some properties will come back into the market but no where near what the government are "expecting".

    +1 , apartments in cities might be bought by a reit but most properties will go for sale , small landlords are all leaving the residential rental market , its not worth it


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    #373
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    LotharIngum wrote: »
    Advertising is not breaking the law.

    And there are hundreds of sources of short term letting if you look for them.

    So, what are people gonna say when they get investigated? 'I just put it up on AirBnB for the craic, I'm not actually letting it out.'

    Also, I think part of the new regulations is that properties available for short term letting have to be registered with the council and short term letting operators like AirBnB have to ensure you have registered before letting you advertise.


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    #374
    GingerLily
    Registered Users Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭GingerLily


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Fol20 wrote: »
    I dont ll for airbnb and personally believe most wont get planning permission to keep it as airbnb. I think we will see that some properties will come back into the market but no where near what the government are "expecting".

    +1 , apartments in cities might be bought by a reit but most properties will go for sale , small landlords are all leaving the residential rental market , its not worth it

    So they will stay rentals or sold to likely private individuals used for PDHs? Sure that's what the government are hoping for?


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    #375
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    3DataModem wrote: »
    This is a great point, and doesn't bode well for the Airbnb enforcement.

    The enforcement is pretty much impossible and the tenants will play along for a cheap nights stay, all this will do is cull some of the properties out and force the others to get a little better at screening out stag parties, groups over for drinking holidays etc...


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    #376
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    GingerLily wrote: »
    So they will stay rentals or sold to likely private individuals used for PDHs? Sure that's what the government are hoping for?

    Most have been on airbnb for the 2 years by the time they return , the ones that return will do so at increased rents , the ones that dont will be coming on stream at the top of the market.

    The government wanted to 'fix' the homeless crisis , returning 450k+ houses to the market and apartments for 2000+ a month will do very little for this.


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    #377
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Most have been on airbnb for the 2 years by the time they return , the ones that return will do so at increased rents , the ones that dont will be coming on stream at the top of the market.

    The government wanted to 'fix' the homeless crisis , returning 450k+ houses to the market and apartments for 2000+ a month will do very little for this.

    This isn't intended to fix the housing crisis on it's own. But it will help somewhat.


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    #378
    GingerLily
    Registered Users Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭GingerLily


    It can't hurt tenants to have more properties available, whatever way you look at it.


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    #379
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    So, what are people gonna say when they get investigated? 'I just put it up on AirBnB for the craic, I'm not actually letting it out.'

    Also, I think part of the new regulations is that properties available for short term letting have to be registered with the council and short term letting operators like AirBnB have to ensure you have registered before letting you advertise.

    I would imagine they wont be on Airbnb for a start.
    I think you overestimate the ability of the investigators here. Ask the husband of the "Seperated" deserted wife who lives a few doors down from me who the next door neighbor hates and keeps reporting.

    There are ways to get caught. And a million ways to avoid getting caught out. And any Airbnber right now is starting to move to other sources of guests and also spreading the word to their former international guests about how to get in touch with them.


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    #380
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    This isn't intended to fix the housing crisis on it's own. But it will help somewhat.

    Yeah right. How many years now are we into all the tweaks that will "help somewhat". They have been steadily chasing their tales trying to fix what they destroyed and all they do is make it worse and worse. Clowns is what they are.


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    #381
    Kidkinobe
    Site Banned Posts: 160 ✭✭Kidkinobe


    LotharIngum wrote: »
    I would imagine they wont be on Airbnb for a start.
    I think you overestimate the ability of the investigators here. Ask the husband of the "Seperated" deserted wife who lives a few doors down from me who the next door neighbor hates and keeps reporting.

    There are ways to get caught. And a million ways to avoid getting caught out. And any Airbnber right now is starting to move to other sources of guests and also spreading the word to their former international guests about how to get in touch with them.

    It will be a bit like driving a car, you might make it for 100 days up and down the M50 breaking the speed limit but on day 101, you get busted, people always get busted if they do the wrong thing for too long.


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    #382
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    Kidkinobe wrote: »
    It will be a bit like driving a car, you might make it for 100 days up and down the M50 breaking the speed limit but on day 101, you get busted, people always get busted if they do the wrong thing for too long.


    You mean like driving on the motorway on a provisional license? I did that for a few years alright. So did everyone I know. Guess ow many I know who got caught despite all the warnings? None.
    Scare stories wont work. Enforcement large scale will, and we know that aint happening ever. All this is is window dressing. The government don't care what happens at all. They just care what you THINK they are doing.


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    #383
    Kidkinobe
    Site Banned Posts: 160 ✭✭Kidkinobe


    LotharIngum wrote: »
    You mean like driving on the motorway on a provisional license? I did that for a few years alright. So did everyone I know. Guess ow many I know who got caught despite all the warnings? None.
    Scare stories wont work. Enforcement large scale will, and we know that aint happening ever. All this is is window dressing. The government don't care what happens at all. They just care what you THINK they are doing.

    Are you still driving on that provisional licence or did you get a little scared and upgrade to a full one?


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    #384
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    LotharIngum wrote: »
    Yeah right. How many years now are we into all the tweaks that will "help somewhat". They have been steadily chasing their tales trying to fix what they destroyed and all they do is make it worse and worse. Clowns is what they are.

    +1 , the worst part is , we're at minimum 5 years away from a viable amount of affordable housing for people if we started right now, which we havent , yet every single 'tweak' or 'fix' exclusively hurts landlords and makes rental investment less attractive and interest rates higher on BTL's knowing that its becoming more and more like unsecured investment every day. We have a huge proportion of people who are not mortgage ready and will not be for years crying out for more , cheaper, more city located rentals and we are currently doing everything in our power to make sure that its impossible for any landlord to deliver that and make a profit.


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    #385
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    Kidkinobe wrote: »
    Are you still driving on that provisional licence or did you get a little scared and upgrade to a full one?

    Do you think I only upgraded my license because I was scared of getting caught driving with it? Dear lord.


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    #386
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Kidkinobe wrote: »
    Are you still driving on that provisional licence or did you get a little scared and upgrade to a full one?

    A man was done a few weeks back for pretending to be an electrician for years, doing work described by reci as 'dangerously below standard' , he got a 2000 euro fine.

    I wouldnt be worried in the slightest about the punishment for this.


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    #387
    Kidkinobe
    Site Banned Posts: 160 ✭✭Kidkinobe


    LotharIngum wrote: »
    Do you think I only upgraded my license because I was scared of getting caught driving with it? Dear lord.
    I could guess it had something to do with you being made to comply with the rules...


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    #388
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    +1 , the worst part is , we're at minimum 5 years away from a viable amount of affordable housing for people if we started right now, which we havent , yet every single 'tweak' or 'fix' exclusively hurts landlords and makes rental investment less attractive and interest rates higher on BTL's knowing that its becoming more and more like unsecured investment every day. We have a huge proportion of people who are not mortgage ready and will not be for years crying out for more , cheaper, more city located rentals and we are currently doing everything in our power to make sure that its impossible for any landlord to deliver that and make a profit.

    True. And as those people wait to be mortgage ready and hit their 40th birthdays it will dawn on them that they will never ever get a mortgage no matter how much they earn. All the while they cheer on the idiots who tell them that all their tweaks are helping and just make it worse.

    I guarantee you that this time next year we will not only not half the Airbnbs they say will be returned to the market, but we will have double that number fewer places to rent.


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    #389
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    LotharIngum wrote: »
    Yeah right. How many years now are we into all the tweaks that will "help somewhat". They have been steadily chasing their tales trying to fix what they destroyed and all they do is make it worse and worse. Clowns is what they are.

    How will returning some properties to the rental/sales market make things worse? These are properties that are currently not available for rent or sale. After these regulations come into place, they will be. More housing stock for the people that live in this country. How is that going to make things worse?


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    #390
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    Kidkinobe wrote: »
    I could guess it had something to do with you being made to comply with the rules...

    Jesus wept. Lets just agree that have solved the housing crisis and are going to police short term rentals, and we are all shaking in our boots at the enforcement record of yourself and the powers that be and leave it at that will we.


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    #391
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    How will returning some properties to the rental/sales market make things worse? These are properties that are currently not available for rent or sale. After these regulations come into place, they will be. More housing stock for the people that live in this country. How is that going to make things worse?

    Have you seen anything that's happened in the last 4 years or so since Simon Coveny started with the tinkering? Well I refer you to the road so far.


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