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Air BnB [and other platforms] to be effectively outlawed in high demand areas

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  • Options
    #422
    KevinCavan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 612 ✭✭✭KevinCavan


    Graham wrote: »
    Residential property returns to the residential market.

    Simples. :pac:

    Who will be able to afford these rental properties? They will be up on Daft for top dollar, there will be no restriction on the rent that can be charged for them. It’s not going to help the soon to be homeless.


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    #423
    KevinCavan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 612 ✭✭✭KevinCavan


    Graham wrote: »
    Hundreds of properties added back to the residential market in some of the most in-demand parts of the country.

    For top dollar.


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    #424
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    KevinCavan wrote: »
    Who will be able to afford these rental properties? They will be up on Daft for top dollar, there will be no restriction on the rent that can be charged for them. It’s not going to help the soon to be homeless.

    Nobody suggested this was a solution to homelessness.
    KevinCavan wrote: »
    For top dollar.

    People will rent the properties, or they won't. If they don't, the rents will drop or the property will be sold (generally).


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    #425
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Personally I think people will just get sick of having mini hotel next door. The sector needs to be regulated because people who live in residential area should not have to be part of some holiday village. It won't solve rental crisis but it might lessen the annoyance of people who did not buy a house to live next door to an unregulated holiday let.


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    #426
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,174 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Yahya Dry Sunbather wrote: »
    I honestly don't know how any landlord can air bnb their property. I would always prefer to have a trustworthy tenant over an unknown person/people possibly ruining the gaffe and with the market the way it is, work/previous tenancy references are very easy to provide. Maybe I'm just too protective.

    Why?

    • You can earn double, maybe triple what you earn from a tenancy.
    • No cap on amount you can charge.
    • No tenancy exists, no need to worry about dodgy tenants/non payment of remt/eviction
    • No HAP.
    • No requirements to have property to meet the standards like HAP.
    • You decide when your property is let and when it isn’t.
    • You can charge a cleaning fee and pay someone to clean your property.
    • you get to see your property every week, not a year later when it’s wrecked.

    Etc


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    #427
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,174 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Graham wrote: »
    Maybe you're right, perhaps thousands of landlords will suddenly go rogue.

    We'll agree to differ and watch the outcome with interest.

    It’s not going rogue, it’s just choosing to carry on as before. The owner isn’t waking up one morning and doing something different, they are just keeping on doing what they are doing. A few will be made an example of, but not many, same as every other time.


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    #428
    GingerLily
    Registered Users Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭GingerLily


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Graham wrote: »
    Maybe you're right, perhaps thousands of landlords will suddenly go rogue.

    We'll agree to differ and watch the outcome with interest.

    It’s not going rogue, it’s just choosing to carry on as before. The owner isn’t waking up one morning and doing something different, they are just keeping on doing what they are doing. A few will be made an example of, but not many, same as every other time.

    When they wake up and it's illegal and they can't advertise on Airbnb anymore then it's going rogue.


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    #429
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,174 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    GingerLily wrote: »
    When they wake up and it's illegal and they can't advertise on Airbnb anymore then it's going rogue.

    Why wouldn’t you be able to advertise on Airbnb?
    Why wouldn’t you use another platform?


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    #430
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Why wouldn’t you be able to advertise on Airbnb?

    My guess, the booking platforms (and let's face it there's only one that's significant) will seek evidence of your exemption registration or STL planning permission.


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    #431
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Personally I think people will just get sick of having mini hotel next door. The sector needs to be regulated because people who live in residential area should not have to be part of some holiday village. It won't solve rental crisis but it might lessen the annoyance of people who did not buy a house to live next door to an unregulated holiday let.

    Very true. For that alone is worth controlling.

    But it's been evangelised as a solution at least partially for the housing crisis. Has controlling it fixed a housing crisis anywhere globally? No? Has rent still increased and shortages still remain?

    Has anywhere got serious supply of new housing built that is anything close to meeting the demand? I'd like to hear about those examples. In Ireland I think we built less than last year

    The Nama report talked about all the housing it had delivered.


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    #432
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,174 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Graham wrote: »
    My guess, the booking platforms (and let's face it there's only one that's significant) will seek evidence of your exemption registration or STL planning permission.

    I haven’t read that they require that in any other city where regulations like this apply. I did read that there was no significant drop in number of listings in US & Canadian cities where they were introduced. I can’t see any platform requiring that if they are not legally compelled to do so, and as that article you read states, it isn’t illegal to advertise online.

    I suppose the proof will come in the form of drop off in properties advertised, but there are other sites like booking.com where guests can pay cash so that will be more difficult to regulate. Also, apparently Facebook is gaining in popularity as an advertising platform for STLs.


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    #433
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    beauf wrote: »
    But it's been evangelised as a solution at least partially for the housing crisis.

    By who?

    I don't think of come across any (credible) opinions that's suggested it's a solution for the housing crisis, homelessness or global warming.

    It's usually presented as a strawman in support of doing nothing.

    "it's not going to fix the housing crisis so the regulations shouldn't change"


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    #434
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I haven’t read that they require that in any other city where regulations like this apply.

    There's no central listing of such cities but a quick search turns up New Orleans, Pasedena, Berlin, Greece at which point I stopped looking.

    It looks like AirBnB are happy to cooperate with such requirements in any locales where it's a legal requirement. As you'd expect.


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    #435
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Graham wrote: »
    By who?

    I don't think of come across any (credible) opinions that's suggested it's a solution for the housing crisis, homelessness or global warming.

    It's usually presented as a strawman in support of doing nothing.

    "it's not going to fix the housing crisis so the regulations shouldn't change"


    Its all over the place.


    Its in the first post that started this thread...
    Kidkinobe wrote: »
    ...Govt are saying rental prices are high because of landlords preferring the Airbnb system.....
    Activists occupy Airbnb office in Dublin to protest against housing crisis


    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1013/1002967-airbnb-protest/
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Imagine if those houses were returned to the housing market? The housing situation (almost) sorted in one fell swoop.

    And don’t be worrying about the poor hoteliers. Once the homeless vacate their rooms, they’ll have plenty of space for the AirBnB clients.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108777328&postcount=83

    You have a point about the credibility though...


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    #436
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,360 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Yahya Dry Sunbather wrote: »
    I honestly don't know how any landlord can air bnb their property. I would always prefer to have a trustworthy tenant over an unknown person/people possibly ruining the gaffe and with the market the way it is, work/previous tenancy references are very easy to provide. Maybe I'm just too protective.

    1500 a month or 150 a night.

    Eliminates risk if non paying tenant
    Makes sure you get the property when you want it, none of this 6 years tenancy after 6 months

    No rent caps.

    AirBnB provide insurance against tenants who wreck the place

    Not having to deal with the. PRTB

    I can’t think of any negatives


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    #437
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,360 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    meeeeh wrote: »
    people who live in residential area should not have to be part of some holiday village.

    Similarly people who buy residential houses don’t want Social houses in the development.

    But it happens


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    #438
    zapitastas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 498 ✭✭zapitastas


    Dav010 wrote: »
    There was an article about this in the Times before Christmas. The fact that a property owner has a listing on Airbnb will not meet the burden of proof for prosecution as it is not proof that the guest actually stayed there, and the multitude of platforms available means that monitoring via online info alone is a non runner. For a prosecution, inspectors will actually have to prove a guest stayed in the same way a tv inspector has to prove you don’t have a license by calling to your door.

    So, on the one hand we have a dedicated RTB, specific legislation to limit rents, yet rents increased 14% last year. There is no organisation of manpower to monitor AIRBNB rentals, the councils don’t have the staff, the courts are clogged up and the Government thinks this is going to make a difference?

    I think most Airbnb hosts will advertise for 90 days on Airbnb and the rest on other platforms. I also suspect, like LLs and rents, most hosts will continue as they are at the moment and play the odds against being one of the few who actually gets found out.

    Would the not get caught out through revenue


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    #439
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Yahya Dry Sunbather wrote: »
    I honestly don't know how any landlord can air bnb their property. I would always prefer to have a trustworthy tenant over an unknown person/people possibly ruining the gaffe and with the market the way it is, work/previous tenancy references are very easy to provide. Maybe I'm just too protective.


    Because you've no way of knowing whether someone is really trustworthy or not, and once they're in it's a very long and expensive road getting them out again while you're getting absolutely no rent.

    References aren't worth the paper they're written on. A previous LL isn't going to give a bad reference if they want rid and a work reference is completely useless.


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    #440
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    ted1 wrote: »
    I can’t think of any negatives


    More wear and tear, some very difficult people, some absolute thickies that can't follow simple instructions to where the keys are. That said it's nothing in comparison to the stress of a deadbeat long term tenant.


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    #441
    TheDoc
    Registered Users Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    3DataModem wrote: »
    This is a great point, and doesn't bode well for the Airbnb enforcement.

    While there isn’t many resources. Once there is an inspection and it’s found, the couple or person is screwed.

    As with anything like this. Your accepting the risk. Someone will get caught and made an example off. No doubt about it


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    #442
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    ted1 wrote: »
    Similarly people who buy residential houses don’t want Social houses in the development.

    But it happens
    And sometimes you don't like the neighbours just because they are annoying. However you deal with same people not different crew every week and an owner who just shows up to collect some money and has no interest or control over what is going on.

    If someone wants to be in hospitality business then they should be regulated like hospitality business not some cowboy operation. Same as Uber is getting more and more regulated same should happen to Air Bnb.


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    #443
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    Threads Merged


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    #444
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭Nermal


    meeeeh wrote: »
    If someone wants to be in hospitality business then they should be regulated like hospitality business not some cowboy operation. Same as Uber is getting more and more regulated same should happen to Air Bnb.

    Regulation removes choice. If you like hotels, stay there. If you like taxis, take them. I will continue staying in AirBNBs and taking Ubers.

    Also, is there any actual evidence - other than anecdotal - of this wave of antisocial AirBNB guests? No host wants inconsiderate, messy, noisy guests. The feedback and ratings on the platform are set up to prevent them.


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    #445
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Nermal wrote: »
    Regulation removes choice. If you like hotels, stay there. If you like taxis, take them. I will continue staying in AirBNBs and taking Ubers.

    Also, is there any actual evidence - other than anecdotal - of this wave of antisocial AirBNB guests? No host wants inconsiderate, messy, noisy guests. The feedback and ratings on the platform are set up to prevent them.

    If people have complained the local authorities you've imagine the authority be able to produce stats to demonstrate this.


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    #446
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/dec/28/experience-my-airbnb-guests-threw-a-party-for-300-people

    This is an extreme example but it illustrates issues perfectly.


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    #447
    Kidkinobe
    Site Banned Posts: 160 ✭✭Kidkinobe


    meeeeh wrote: »
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/dec/28/experience-my-airbnb-guests-threw-a-party-for-300-people

    This is an extreme example but it illustrates issues perfectly.
    Similar thing happened a friend of mine, except 100 people showed up at his small 2 bed house, they were aged between 14 and 18. A 14 year old managed to open an Airbnb acc and book the place about a month in advance. The cops were called to the property at 8.30 in the evening by a neighbour of the Airbnb and kids were seeing scattering over hedges and fences to get away, hundreds of dollars of alcohol was abandoned by the same kids. This happened in Dunedin, New Zealand.


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    #448
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    There are plenty of stories of long terms tenants causing damage, at least with AirBnB they are likely to be gone rather than overholding.


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    #449
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Graham wrote: »
    Residential property returns to the residential market.

    Simples. :pac:

    It will be out of the reach of the people who think it will fall back to them.

    https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/divided-market-fewer-houses-within-reach-of-working-families-as-sales-of-1mplus-properties-on-the-rise-37682212.html

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvK6ihMzJbE

    These things may seem all disconnected, but they are not.


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    #450
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,360 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    More wear and tear, some very difficult people, some absolute thickies that can't follow simple instructions to where the keys are. That said it's nothing in comparison to the stress of a deadbeat long term tenant.

    I’d say less wear and tear. Realistically few guests will use the cooking facilities. You probably won’t have the occupancy you do have.


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    #451
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    ted1 wrote: »
    I’d say less wear and tear. Realistically few guests will use the cooking facilities. You probably won’t have the occupancy you do have.

    I would expect more wear and tear with people coming in and out every couple of days:
    1) moving things in an out of the apartment all time will cause minor damage overtime (which ads up if it is everyday)
    2) realistically, on average people won't be as careful in holiday renting as they are at home
    3) they will be as minority but while the fact of changing tenant all the time makes it easier to get rid if crap people who don't care, it also pretty much guarantees that you will get some of those for a few days once in a while


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