Why do Irish people support English teams?

Omackeral · 07-05-2019 7:43am

dd973 wrote: »

Exactly, why this thread repeatedly crops up again God only knows, Irish people watch English football, we just do.

It's probably partially to do with the fact that the same Irish people who salivate over these English teams and identifying with them are the same people people who openly exude anti-English sentiment in other walks of life. Or even just check out any comment section or thread when England are playing. There's a certain irony or hypocrisy or lack of self awareness there no matter what way it's dressed up.

"People can like what they want". Yes, obviously. It's just a discussion being had. It's a discussion site.

Deebles McBeebles · 07-05-2019 12:06pm

Come on you Spurs!

Strumms · 07-05-2019 6:18pm

Omackeral wrote: »

It's probably partially to do with the fact that the same Irish people who salivate over these English teams and identifying with them are the same people people who openly exude anti-English sentiment in other walks of life. Or even just check out any comment section or thread when England are playing. There's a certain irony or hypocrisy or lack of self awareness there no matter what way it's dressed up.

"People can like what they want". Yes, obviously. It's just a discussion being had. It's a discussion site.

A bit of a wild generalization to be quite frank. I would not have anything to do with folks who were anti ANY nationality. It’s also not an attitude ive picked up on during my time supporting an English team or traveling to English games with Irish people.

steddyeddy · 07-05-2019 6:21pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I was born and raised in Tipperary. My mother kept the home when Dad worked.

Dad worked in the merchant navy for yrs and loved soccer.

He lived in Inchicore when I was born. He was an officer on the Holyhead ferry.

We used to go to Richmond Park. Some of my earliest memomories in life are of him swearing and getting angry with me up on his lap.

He was a very emotive man, but very loving.

I just could never get why most of Dublin and the rest of the country supported the English league .

It's not just Irish support for English teams. I live in England and can't understand why someone from say Portsmouth would be a die hard Liverpool fan despite never being there!

Beasty · 07-05-2019 6:35pm

Don't forget the haters!!

If you support one, you probably hate most if not all the others - that's a lot more hates than supports, which arguably makes the thread title a little misleading:pac:

D14Rugby · 07-05-2019 6:54pm

dd973 wrote: »

Exactly, why this thread repeatedly crops up again God only knows, Irish people watch English football, we just do.

How about starting a thread about white people listening to Jazz?

Not really a great comparison. The basis of jazz isn't built around set communities, the whole point of music is that it doesn't have set borders.

Football clubs are the polar opposite, clubs origins are deeply rooted it the communities they're based in which is why they're named after places. Sadly football has moved away from that and become a pure business rather than the community hub that they were originally intended to be, its sad really and there's not really any going back.

Edgware · 07-05-2019 7:03pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

Not really a great comparison. The basis of jazz isn't built around set communities, the whole point of music is that it doesn't have set borders.

Football clubs are the polar opposite, clubs origins are deeply rooted it the communities they're based in which is why they're named after places. Sadly football has moved away from that and become a pure business rather than the community hub that they were originally intended to be, its sad really and there's not really any going back.

Many clubs are making great efforts to stay linked to the local commu ity.
Check through their programmes or websites and you will see details of many schemes involving schools, homeworkclubs, senior citizens, physically and mentally disabled assistance programmes. Manchester City has invested millions into community sporting facilities around the Etihad.
While Premiership game tickets are pricey there are games where there is gooddiscount for families etc.
Go down the English leagues to the smaller provincial clubs and there is certainly the commu ity spirit.

EmmetSpiceland · 07-05-2019 7:08pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

Sadly football has moved away from that and become a pure business rather than the community hub that they were originally intended to be, its sad really and there's not really any going back.

This is very true.

Look at teams like Arsenal and Southampton, the former only has the goal of getting to the group stage of the Champions League while the latter aims to make money from developing players and selling them on.

Tottenham have really done well this season, far exceeded anyone’s expectations for a team that doesn’t spend money on transfers as they focus on their new stadium instead.

If these teams put money into their team they could really be something.

D14Rugby · 07-05-2019 7:26pm

Edgware wrote: »

Many clubs are making great efforts to stay linked to the local commu ity.
Check through their programmes or websites and you will see details of many schemes involving schools, homeworkclubs, senior citizens, physically and mentally disabled assistance programmes. Manchester City has invested millions into community sporting facilities around the Etihad.
While Premiership game tickets are pricey there are games where there is gooddiscount for families etc.
Go down the English leagues to the smaller provincial clubs and there is certainly the commuity spirit.

See that's it, you shouldn't have to go down the leagues to find it.
The whole expansion of football to the empire it is today is great in that you get to see players from all over the world in one place but at the end of the day very few of those imports actually care about the club, the fans, the local community.
But when you go back to the days where teams like the Lisbon lions were all from the area, kids could see people who were in their very shoes a few years before representing the club so they knew it was possible. Nowadays academies are even filled with kids around the world which has its pros and cons but it's a huge con in that you lose that connection between fan and player. The to compound that the fans are from god knows where and aren't really invested in the same way locals are.

It's just sad to see, I understand why it has happened but that connection between fans and players just isn't there most places these days for the most part. It's just sad how money and success oriented football is at the top level now because that's not what it's about.

odyssey06 · 07-05-2019 7:40pm

Ardillaun wrote: »

What I’m saying is that the quality argument is bogus. English teams historically were poor by continental standards. It is true that we are dominated by British media but the opportunities to watch European soccer in English have never been better.

Historically poor at club level? The number of european trophies won by english teams pre-Heysel suggests otherwise.

When channel 4 covered Italian football AC milan jerseys became fashionable here so opportunity to watch in english is key for sure.

Hamsterchops · 07-05-2019 7:47pm

I once had a friend who supported an Italian team :eek:

odyssey06 · 07-05-2019 7:51pm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I once had a friend who supported an Italian team :eek:

I have a soft spot for Atalanta since winning the european cup with them in Championship Manager Italia...

In the early 90s Serie A teams had the superstars even the top English players like Gazza and Platt.

odyssey06 · 07-05-2019 9:50pm

I am sure Liverpool's exploits tonight are seeding a whole new generation of Liverpool fans.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-05-2019 10:30pm

Beasty wrote: »

Don't forget the haters!!

If you support one, you probably hate most if not all the others - that's a lot more hates than supports, which arguably makes the thread title a little misleading:pac:

That United fans. United and City fans. United, City and Liverpool fans. United, City Liverpool and... hang on, I'll come in again...

Church on Tuesday · 07-05-2019 10:57pm

dd973 wrote: »

Exactly, why this thread repeatedly crops up again God only knows, Irish people watch English football, we just do.

How about starting a thread about white people listening to Jazz?

Because these kinds of threads are started by people who have no interest in football and most probably sport in general.

Deebles McBeebles · 08-05-2019 10:46am

odyssey06 wrote: »

When channel 4 covered Italian football AC milan jerseys became fashionable here so opportunity to watch in english is key for sure.

That's when I started following Serie A. Most games are covered in English these days thankfully although the UK and Ireland rights are dues to change again next season I think.

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I once had a friend who supported an Italian team :eek:

Sweet baby jebus! :eek:

Hamsterchops · 08-05-2019 10:49am

LIVERPOOL ARE AMAZING...

UP THE REDS.

OOPS, SORRY, they're an English team

D14Rugby · 08-05-2019 11:27am

odyssey06 wrote: »

I am sure Liverpool's exploits tonight are seeding a whole new generation of Liverpool fans.

And that's sad in a way. When you support a team because they're successful you're not getting the full experience that a fan should.

odyssey06 · 08-05-2019 11:32am

D14Rugby wrote: »

And that's sad in a way. When you support a team because they're successful you're not getting the full experience that a fan should.

I am sure they will... Excluding the bandwagon jumpers who switch allegiance at the drop of a hat... I just meant their glorious exploits are seeding a new generation of fans who having identified\imprinted with the team in success, will in future know the pain of defeat and failure and mediocrity

And Liverpool fans of the 80s who stuck with the team though the 90s see the pendulum swing back their way.

dundalkfc10 · 08-05-2019 11:39am

D14Rugby wrote: »

odyssey06 wrote: »

I am sure Liverpool's exploits tonight are seeding a whole new generation of Liverpool fans.

And that's sad in a way. When you support a team because they're successful you're not getting the full experience that a fan should.

On other hand, Dundalks European exploits (and 4 league titles 2 FAI Cups in 5 years) have every child in town at easter camps, football training, at school in Dundalk FC clothing. Many of these will be now be hooked on going to Oriel every Friday night for rest of their lives. Would this have happened with success?

My own brother started supporting Dundalk in 2002 his first game was FAI Cup final aged 10, we won and he was hooked.

Laois_Man · 08-05-2019 11:39am

odyssey06 wrote: »

Excluding the bandwagon jumpers who switch allegiance at the drop of a hat...

I can't think of anybody I know over the age of 8 years old who has done this

The Moldy Gowl · 08-05-2019 11:40am

odyssey06 wrote: »

I am sure Liverpool's exploits tonight are seeding a whole new generation of Liverpool fans.

Who might want to go see live football and realise there is live football on their doorstep.

They arent mutually exclusive.

fryup · 08-05-2019 12:35pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

what LOI? rather watch paint dry

D14Rugby · 08-05-2019 12:53pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

I am sure they will... Excluding the bandwagon jumpers who switch allegiance at the drop of a hat... I just meant their glorious exploits are seeding a new generation of fans who having identified\imprinted with the team in success, will in future know the pain of defeat and failure and mediocrity

And Liverpool fans of the 80s who stuck with the team though the 90s see the pendulum swing back their way.

Lets be honest now those lows were hardly actual lows in the grand scheme of things, just in comparison to Liverpool's success which set such a high bar for comparison to.

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

On other hand, Dundalks European exploits (and 4 league titles 2 FAI Cups in 5 years) have every child in town at easter camps, football training, at school in Dundalk FC clothing. Many of these will be now be hooked on going to Oriel every Friday night for rest of their lives. Would this have happened with success?

My own brother started supporting Dundalk in 2002 his first game was FAI Cup final aged 10, we won and he was hooked.

Yeah its sadly a part of Irish sports in general to just support a team when it's successful (I wasn't saying that as part of them supporting a foreign club because they're successful just in general), it's particularly bad in football now though because of the fact it has become so completely success and money orientated, that's the sad bit, not just abroad but all over.

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

what LOI? rather watch paint dry

Great input there.

And the last game you went to to form this opinion was?

FYI quotes are a thing you know? The button isn't exactly easy to miss

fryup · 08-05-2019 1:17pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

many moons ago, thankfully rte2 show regular live & highlight LOI programmes to show people things haven't improved much

*btw - there's no need to quote a reply thats just above

D14Rugby · 08-05-2019 1:41pm

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

many moons ago, thankfully rte2 show regular live & highlight LOI programmes to show people things haven't improved much

*btw - there's no need to quote a reply thats just above

So an unspecific game an unspecific amount of time ago is your basis for the quality of the league. Pull the other one.

RTEs live league coverage is anything but regular.
The highlights are about 30 seconds of a match, a real accurate reflection of the games quality.

Just on this page there's 3 posts within a minute of each other, say someone goes to make a cup of tea before hitting posts or even re reads to check for spelling mistakes, that completely changes the order of the posts, messing up your ^^^^ method

fryup · 08-05-2019 1:48pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

RTEs live league coverage is anything but regular.
The highlights are about 30 seconds of a match, a real accurate reflection of the games quality.

well any time they do show a live match its usually cr@p, so going by that i'm not missing much

Just on this page there's 3 posts within a minute of each other, say someone goes to make a cup of tea before hitting posts or even re reads to check for spelling mistakes, that completely changes the order of the posts, messing up your ^^^^ method

rarely happens

valoren · 08-05-2019 2:22pm

Variety is the spice of life.

A person can play for their local outfit, play weekly 5 a side, they can go to League of Ireland matches time permitting, they can follow Liverpool because they were the dominant team in their formative years, they can follow AC Milan when they had Gullit and Van Basten, they can follow a Newcastle mid-90's outfit with their attacking tactics and hope they beat United to the title, they can lose their **** when Ole scores to win a United treble, they can appreciate the brilliant football of Arsenal's invincible squad in the 00's, they can wish to see everyone's second favorite team Spurs do well, they can relish in the brilliance of a Leicester City title run, they can hope Liverpool beat a team of mercenaries to a long awaited title, they can watch the excitement of the CL knockout games and pick a favorite, they can appreciate tikki-takka football, they can support the national team hoping they qualify for major tournaments and when they get knocked out or fail to qualify they can follow the likes of the great Spanish sides of the 00's and can even relish in the excitement of an England squad reaching a WC semi-final.

That type of fluidity let's the beautiful game flourish. Insular, black and white attitude's quell it. If you love football then there is plenty of variety and why Irish people follow English teams.

The Moldy Gowl · 08-05-2019 2:29pm

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

what LOI? rather watch paint dry

If that is what makes you happy.
I'll let the lads know you won't be along because they aren't Messi.

odyssey06 · 08-05-2019 2:34pm

valoren wrote: »

Variety is the spice of life.

A person can play for their local outfit, play weekly 5 a side, they can go to League of Ireland matches time permitting, they can follow Liverpool because they were the dominant team in their formative years, they can follow AC Milan when they had Gullit and Van Basten, they can follow a Newcastle mid-90's outfit with their attacking tactics and hope they beat United to the title...

+1 to everything except following Liverpool and Newcastle.
You can't follow two teams in the same league\pyramid that's just cheating, besides what happens if they meet?
You have to have a hierarchy and once you put a team as #1 then you're locked in and it's about who you cheer for as your current #2 in the competition

dundalkfc10 · 08-05-2019 3:09pm

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

many moons ago, thankfully rte2 show regular live & highlight LOI programmes to show people things haven't improved much

*btw - there's no need to quote a reply thats just above

So if you watched RTEs highlights, You will have seen a free kick by Sligo every bit as good as Messi V Liverpool last week (not saying standards anywhere near)

BTW Dundalk qualify for Group stages of Europa Leauge something Burnley, West Ham etc (Prem league teams) have all failed to do the last few seasons.

sbsquarepants · 08-05-2019 3:15pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

You can't follow two teams in the same league\pyramid that's just cheating, besides what happens if they meet?

You find out which one you really follow:D

Personally I'm a huge Liverpool and Barca fan. Champions league has thought me (Previously and confirmed quite miraculously only last night) that I'd happily push Messi under a bus for the pool to get the win!

Deebles McBeebles · 08-05-2019 3:20pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You find out which one you really follow:D

Personally I'm a huge Liverpool and Barca fan. Champions league has thought me (Previously and confirmed quite miraculously only last night) that I'd happily push Messi under a bus for the pool to get the win!

Very true. Have had this myself in the CL in past years. You quickly find out your preference.

Snickers Man · 08-05-2019 4:37pm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

LIVERPOOL ARE AMAZING...

UP THE REDS.

OOPS, SORRY, they're an English team

No they're not. They're owned by Americans, managed by a German and their current first team squad of 28 players has representatives from 15 different countries, if by country you mean an entity that is entitled by FIFA or UEFA to compete in international competition. Only about a third of the squad is English.

Countries represented in Liverpool's squad are: England, Scotland, Wales, Rep of Ireland, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Croatia, Brazil, Egypt, Cameroon, Senegal and Guinea,

English, my arse. They're a multinational globalised brand name for hire.

Just like everybody else in the premiership.

CalamariFritti · 08-05-2019 4:42pm

It’s easy. You’re five or six years old and you see a team you like on telly. Usually comes with a player you like. Then in school you find out others like the same team. And others again hate your team. Bingo. A lifelong friendship just started.

There is nothing more to it than that. Doesn’t have to be. What’s the problem with it?

Tomw86 · 08-05-2019 4:45pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

No they're not. They're owned by Americans, managed by a German and their current first team squad of 28 players has representatives from 15 different countries, if by country you mean an entity that is entitled by FIFA or UEFA to compete in international competition. Only about a third of the squad is English.

Countries represented in Liverpool's squad are: England, Scotland, Wales, Rep of Ireland, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Croatia, Brazil, Egypt, Cameroon, Senegal and Guinea,

English, my arse. They're a multinational globalised brand name for hire.

Just like everybody else in the premiership.

So the Irish Rugby team aren't fully Irish then either.......

Greyfox · 08-05-2019 4:54pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

And that's sad in a way. When you support a team because they're successful you're not getting the full experience that a fan should.

Its not sad, its what's normal and expected. If your team was always rubbish and are still rubbish and your not getting any joy from your football team then your a fool for supporting them, some success is required for you to actually start caring in the first place.

The Moldy Gowl · 08-05-2019 4:58pm

Greyfox wrote: »

Its not sad, its what's normal and expected. If your team was always rubbish and are still rubbish and your not getting any joy from your football team then your a fool for supporting them, some success is required for you to actually start caring in the first place.

What about any team outside the top 6 or the hundreds of other middling teams or teams battling relagation?

08-05-2019 5:08pm

Liverpool last night were great. We came back from 3 - 0 down to reach the final.

I must pay that city a visit some day, supposed to be nice place.

OldMrBrennan83 · 08-05-2019 5:09pm

Tomw86 wrote: »

So the Irish Rugby team aren't fully Irish then either.......

Not with all those orange order merchants for starters.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 08-05-2019 5:13pm

Scouse not English as a mate of mine says.

What's that I said, As the camera cut to a massive Union Jack with the Liverpool emblem emblazoned across it.

Greyfox · 08-05-2019 5:19pm

The Moldy Gowl wrote: »

What about any team outside the top 6 or the hundreds of other middling teams or teams battling relagation?

If its enjoyable to watch them play support them, your allowed support any team you want to as long as its enjoyable but once you pick a team you cant ever change to a rival team. Im a Man Utd fan and have to admit last night is the perfect example of why Irish people support English football instead of LOI football.

D14Rugby · 08-05-2019 5:30pm

Greyfox wrote: »

Its not sad, its what's normal and expected. If your team was always rubbish and are still rubbish and your not getting any joy from your football team then your a fool for supporting them, some success is required for you to actually start caring in the first place.

If you actually read my posts you'd see I said it's sad that that's considered normal and that's how football has gone for the most part, because that's not why football was started. Just because your team is rubbish doesn't necessarily mean you don't get joy from supporting them. And what's considered rubbish, is it the style of football, lack of trophies won, there are tonnes of factors as to how football is entertaining and if it ever gets to the point where only winning trophies matters we should just pack it all in now

Greyfox wrote: »

If its enjoyable to watch them play support them, your allowed support any team you want to as long as its enjoyable but once you pick a team you cant ever change to a rival team. Im a Man Utd fan and have to admit last night is the perfect example of why Irish people support English football instead of LOI football.

How is it the perfect example? You didn't need to support Liverpool to enjoy that match on tv

The Moldy Gowl · 08-05-2019 5:31pm

Greyfox wrote: »

If its enjoyable to watch them play support them, your allowed support any team you want to as long as its enjoyable but once you pick a team you cant ever change to a rival team. Im a Man Utd fan and have to admit last night is the perfect example of why Irish people support English football instead of LOI football.

I can see where you're coming from but in my view they are 2 separate things. I still watch both. Obviously one is the top of football, the other isn't.
Still support man utd but started preferring going to bohs and following the LOI.

Find it more enjoyable going to games rather than watching it on the couch.

Snickers Man · 08-05-2019 5:31pm

Tomw86 wrote: »

So the Irish Rugby team aren't fully Irish then either.......

The vast majority of the irish team are Irish born and raised. Most of those that aren't have lived and played here for many years. They're new Irish. Immigrants who have made a commitment to their current country of residence. Fair play to them.

I don't think you can compare that to the typical entity that comprises the football premiership at all.

Snickers Man · 08-05-2019 5:34pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Not with all those orange order merchants for starters.

You are so-o-o soccer.

Take it whatever way you like.

OldMrBrennan83 · 08-05-2019 5:35pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

You are so-o-o soccer.

Take it whatever way you like.

I'd have a chance of taking it some way if it made any sense.

Bobblehats · 08-05-2019 5:36pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

English, my arse. They're a multinational globalised brand name for hire.

Sounds like Ireland! These changes within club football have long since been brought about but when it transcends clubs and infects even the international domain and its citizens with somewhat exotic names and their dual; sometimes even triple nationality snubbing the country that raised them until a better team declines just where do you draw the line?!

indeed those line have been well and truly erased so where to you even begin to retrieve them... is it even possible but yes football a real reflection of an ever more topsy turvy world. When the kids in their academies begin to appear more foreign than the very foreigners they employ you just know somethings up :pac:

8-10 · 08-05-2019 5:38pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

The vast majority of the irish team are Irish born and raised. Most of those that aren't have lived and played here for many years. They're new Irish. Immigrants who have made a commitment to their current country of residence. Fair play to them.

The problem I have with Rugby is that you can represent Ireland after 3 years of residency. You're not eligible for citizenship for a further 2 years.

I think sports should follow citizenship not bespoke residency rules. The fact that somebody can represent Ireland without being allowed hold an Irish passport doesn't sit right.

You can play for any country providing you are a citizen of that country should be the rule. If you are a dual/multi national, you pick one and play for whoever you get your first cap with.

"a commitment to their current country of residence" shouldn't be the bar. If you're committed you'd become a citizen.

fryup · 08-05-2019 5:39pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

No they're not. They're owned by Americans, managed by a German and their current first team squad of 28 players has representatives from 15 different countries, if by country you mean an entity that is entitled by FIFA or UEFA to compete in international competition. Only about a third of the squad is English.

Countries represented in Liverpool's squad are: England, Scotland, Wales, Rep of Ireland, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Croatia, Brazil, Egypt, Cameroon, Senegal and Guinea,

English, my arse. They're a multinational globalised brand name for hire.

Just like everybody else in the premiership.

well the last time i heard, Liverpool was in England

Why do Irish people support English teams?

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