About them vegans lads

Yurt2 · 12-06-2019 3:25pm

You could do with a toke yourself Goz, might take the edge off.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 12-06-2019 3:25pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

It would already have collapsed if it wasn't massively subsidised. Not that I want it to but that is fact.

Yes, farming is subsidised but probably less than any other sector in the wider Irish economy. But it's open and transparent and so makes it an easy target.

So let's look at the other subsidies that aren't transparent but readily accepted as a 'right'. Sick pay, sick leave, holiday pay, holiday leave, minimum wages, dole, paternity leave, maternity leave, maternity pay etc etc etc. They're all, in effect, subsidies as they are an indirect benefit to those in receipt. And they're just the ones I thought of in two minutes.

So I have no problem in not receiving any subsidies, my goods are sold at world market prices though I have to pay first world prices for my inputs and have first world restrictions on what inputs I can use. But let's see the level of support there is for the banning of ALL subsidies first.

As the old saying goes, you never know who's swimming naked till the tide goes out:pac:

gozunda · 12-06-2019 3:26pm

jimgoose wrote: »

Also and as well, you should try to keep "in" with fellas who own tractors and diggers and things, as well as acres and acres of land in which a buried body might never be found. Just sayin'.

Tractors are odd things - steering isn't always that good and brakes can fail. Dodgy getting a tow from those boys - you could end up anywhere :pac:

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 12-06-2019 3:31pm

dont bother wrote: »

well instead of farmers moaning about vegans not eating their produce, why arent farmers banding together to protest their right to grow cannabis?

my thought is that they (the farmers) should stop giving out about more people becoming vegan, and focus on their own plan to increase their own incomes. it's similar to the dole heads, why should everyone else have to worry about how much money farmers are making or not making.

Because the agri-food sector of the economy is incredibly important and has huge ripple effects on people indirectly employed because of it. We've spent the last few years in this country making it impossible for small landlords for the sake of large corporate housing interests and we can see how that's going, I'd like to see small private farms continue to exist. Most people who farm come from generations of farmers, it's not just a job, it's a deeply felt identity. You'd need to be fcuking mad to get into farming for the profit, or to get "money for nothing". It's hard, dangerous, often lonely work.

As for cannabis and why don't they just grow vegan food, have you not noticed that huge amounts of this country consist of rain pissing down on rocks? You'll not get much primo bud and avocados out of that hai. My dad grows vegetables in his garden at home, I spent countless hours as a kid picking stones out of that ground and it's somehow still like 80% stones.

dont bother · 12-06-2019 3:34pm

gozunda wrote: »

Lol. Seriously. You are a cannabis growing expert? Really. Theres a very good discussion over in F&F about that very subject including exactly why our climate Is NOT suitable.

But yes it is illegal and smoking it is bad for your health.

Why the fuk would anyone demand something which a) is illegal b) is not suitable for Irish growing conditions and c) is bad for you.

All so some can spend their time stoned out of their tiny minds? Nope not a starter.

why cant you understand that everything you say is ONLY your opinion? (and most of the time you have proven to be in the wrong with your opinion on topics).
there are plenty of ways to grow cannabis in ireland. it is not bad for your health if vaped or consumed in edible format and for people like you who have issues controlling their level of calm - i think you could use a bit of it.

eh... demand that it is made legal and let it be grown in this country. what is wrong with you!?! you've devolved into the joke of most threads.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 12-06-2019 3:36pm

Jamari Defeated Plantation wrote: »

Because the agri-food sector of the economy is incredibly important and has huge ripple effects on people indirectly employed because of it. We've spent the last few years in this country making it impossible for small landlords for the sake of large corporate housing interests and we can see how that's going, I'd like too see small private farms continue to exist. Most people who farm come from generations of farmers, it's not just a job, it's a deeply felt identity. You'd need to be fcuking mad to get into farming for the profit, or to get "money for nothing". It's hard, dangerous, often lonely work.

As for cannabis and why don't they just grow vegan food, have you not noticed that huge amounts of this country consist of rain pissing down on rocks? You'll not get much primo bud and avocados out of that hai. My dad grows vegetables in his garden at home, I spent countless hours as a kid picking stones out of that ground and it's somehow still like 80% stones.

#characterbuilding:)

worded · 12-06-2019 3:37pm

I was so inspired by this meme that drunk on hols I copied this idea .... poor random guy was very nervous :-)

Yurt2 · 12-06-2019 3:39pm

gozunda wrote: »

You saying you advocate smoking dope? Lol. about right. You do know it's bad for you and causes mental Impairment

Anyway back to the topic

What do you think of the topic?

LOL Reefer madness. Everything in moderation Gozmund, including internet rampages.

My thoughts? Vegans, as irritating as they can be sometimes, are no match for the paranoid farmer who thinks Tristan from Blackrock eating kale and hummus poses a mortal threat to his way of life. You don't need to be hitting the peace pipe to get paranoid evidently.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 12-06-2019 3:39pm

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

#characterbuilding:)

I swear there are more stones than when I started. How?? Do they grow in the ground? Do they breed? Do tiny little vegans sneak in at night and put them there?

gozunda · 12-06-2019 3:40pm

dont bother wrote: »

why cant you understand that everything you say is ONLY your opinion? (and most of the time you have proven to be in the wrong with your opinion on topics).
there are plenty of ways to grow cannabis in ireland. it is not bad for your health if vaped or consumed in edible format and for people like you who have issues controlling their level of calm - i think you could use a bit of it.eh... demand that it is made legal and let it be grown in this country. what is wrong with you!?! you've devolved into the joke of most threads.

Because it's not JUST my opinion. There is expert opinion on that thread from a range of experts in horticulture and agriculture. But hey ignore them for sure you know better.

Go take a read of the the cannabis growing thread if you are in denial and dont believe anyone e else

The fact is it is illegal and no one is going to advocate for that - end of story.

Btw the only joke here btw is yours and "them vegan lads" who made right eejits of themselves living up to everything that others say about them lol. But there you go

Deebles McBeebles · 12-06-2019 3:40pm

gozunda wrote: »

You do know growing cannabis is illegal and smoking it is bad for your health? And the fact that our climate is not suitable for growing same?

We already grow it here
https://www.thatsfarming.com/news/hemp-farming-details

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Yes, farming is subsidised but probably less than any other sector in the wider Irish economy. But it's open and transparent and so makes it an easy target.

So let's look at the other subsidies that aren't transparent but readily accepted as a 'right'. Sick pay, sick leave, holiday pay, holiday leave, minimum wages, dole, paternity leave, maternity leave, maternity pay etc etc etc. They're all, in effect, subsidies as they are an indirect benefit to those in receipt. And they're just the ones I thought of in two minutes.

So I have no problem in not receiving any subsidies, my goods are sold at world market prices though I have to pay first world prices for my inputs and have first world restrictions on what inputs I can use. But let's see the level of support there is for the banning of ALL subsidies first.

As the old saying goes, you never know who's swimming naked till the tide goes out:pac:

You may have picked me up wrong Buford, I was just pointing out that it is massively subsidised and wouldn't be able to support itself under current conditions. I wouldn't like to see it stopped for obvious reasons!

dont bother · 12-06-2019 3:41pm

Jamari Defeated Plantation wrote: »

Because the agri-food sector of the economy is incredibly important and has huge ripple effects on people indirectly employed because of it. We've spent the last few years in this country making it impossible for small landlords for the sake of large corporate housing interests and we can see how that's going, I'd like too see small private farms continue to exist. Most people who farm come from generations of farmers, it's not just a job, it's a deeply felt identity. You'd need to be fcuking mad to get into farming for the profit, or to get "money for nothing". It's hard, dangerous, often lonely work.

As for cannabis and why don't they just grow vegan food, have you not noticed that huge amounts of this country consist of rain pissing down on rocks? You'll not get much primo bud and avocados out of that hai. My dad grows vegetables in his garden at home, I spent countless hours as a kid picking stones out of that ground and it's somehow still like 80% stones.

eh, go buy the necessary equipment to grow it indoors in a barn? you know, actually come up with some solutions instead of moaning about how bad they have it and never doing anything proactive to change their situation? the world has moved on, and like you, i wouldnt like to see small family farms like that being fvcked over, BUT, farmers need to move along with the rest of the world too - they can not expect people to change back to "the way things were" that is never going to work out.

i agree with you, but i just dont understand why, even at the mere suggestion of something alternative, it's shot down and rubbished in a nanosecond. farmers need to change their mindset, they need to stop being so anti-urban and so against change. Yes it's traditional etc, and a way of life, and i get that, but they need to bring down their walls a bit and let themselves into the modern way of things a bit too...

it's not as cut and dry as "we need to get people eating as much meat as possible or we're fvcked" - like there are alternatives that could rake in cash, and keep these small farms from going under, but it's just that it seems to be a lot of stubborness in the way of progressing themselves into a more lucrative, modern and sustainable way to farm and live.

dont bother · 12-06-2019 3:42pm

i would like to point out that i am not a vegan btw

gozunda · 12-06-2019 3:43pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

We already grow it here
https://www.thatsfarming.com/news/hemp-farming-details

Yes that's hemp. It does not produce the active ingredient contained in cannabis. To find out why at least read the thread detailed above. It's still illegal btw.

Deebles McBeebles · 12-06-2019 3:45pm

gozunda wrote: »

Yes that's hemp. It does not produce the active ingredient contained in cannabis. To find out why at least read the thread detailed above.

Its the same plant.

Plopsu · 12-06-2019 3:45pm

Jamari Defeated Plantation wrote: »

I swear there are more stones than when I started. How?? Do they grow in the ground? Do they breed? Do tiny little vegans sneak in at night and put them there?

Could it be that your dad puts them back after you've left to make sure you keep visiting?

James Brown · 12-06-2019 3:46pm

They should go back to Vegania. We should be looking after our own first...except dole spongers and people pretending to be homeless and travellers.

dont bother · 12-06-2019 3:49pm

gozunda wrote: »

Yes that's hemp. It does not produce the active ingredient contained in cannabis. To find out why at least read the thread detailed above.

eh its the same plant.
look Gozunda, you are only here to make a meal out of the slightest difference of opinions, whether it's vegans, lgbt, housing, whatever it is you will always be there to make sure that your differing opinion on the thread is the loudest.
there is no debating with you. you are too set in your ways to have a logical discussion with on any subject.

cannabis is grown here very successfully. there's tonnes of the stuff on every corner and most of it is grown in ireland. can you not understand the idea of maybe not trying to grow it outdoors in a rainy cold irish field? do farms not have indoor spaces like barns? do farmers not have a way to buy the UV lights required to grow? do farmers not want to join in the fight to try and legalise the plant so that they CAN grow it? are you that afraid of "the law" that you just shut down the idea completely because as you said and simply put "it's illegal, thats a non starter".

Deebles McBeebles · 12-06-2019 3:56pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They should go back to Vegania. We should be looking after our own first...except dole spongers and people pretending to be homeless and travellers.

Almost heaven, West Vegania
Green Kale Mountains, Quinoa River
Life is old there, older than the trees
Younger than the mountains, blowing like a breeze
Country roads, take me home
To the place I belong
West Vegania, mountain mama
Take me home, country roads

gozunda · 12-06-2019 3:58pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Its the same plant.

No hemp is a variety of plant of that family - usually Cannabis sativa and contains little or no active cannabis active ingredient - tetrahydrocannabinol.

The plant strains used for 'dope' require high levels of heat and light to produce this active ingredient. These strains do not grow commercially outdoor in Irish conditions

Go read the thread detailed - its all in there - no point repeating what has already been discussed there in detail tbh

See:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_strains

http://www.hemptrade.ca/eguide/background/the-hemp-plant

dont bother wrote: »

eh its the same plant. look Gozunda, you are only here to make a meal out of the slightest difference of opinions, whether it's vegans, lgbt, housing, whatever it is you will always be there to make sure that your differing opinion on the thread is the loudest.
there is no debating with you. you are too set in your ways to have a logical discussion with on any subject. cannabis is grown here very successfully. there's tonnes of the stuff on every corner and most of it is grown in ireland. can you not understand the idea of maybe not trying to grow it outdoors in a rainy cold irish field? do farms not have indoor spaces like barns? do farmers not have a way to buy the UV lights required to grow? do farmers not want to join in the fight to try and legalise the plant so that they CAN grow it? are you that afraid of "the law" that you just shut down the idea completely because as you said and simply put "it's illegal, thats a non starter".

Nope. Incorrect. Go read the thread about growing it. Theres experts on there who will tell you the exact same thing. No need to listen to me at all BUT strangely you do seem to know it all about farming lol. And yes growing cannabis remains ILLEGAL.

No one is going to risk their livelihood growing an illegal crop end of story - just so some dopeheads can get high or melt some of their brain cells tbh

Deebles McBeebles · 12-06-2019 4:01pm

gozunda wrote: »

Go read the thread detailed - its all in there - no point repeating what has already been discussed there in detail tbh

Would you stop, all you do is repeat yourself.

It does not change the fact it is the same plant and you said it can't grow here, which is wrong.

dont bother · 12-06-2019 4:03pm

gozunda wrote: »

No hemp is a variety of plant of that family - usually Cannabis sativa and contains little or no active cannabis active ingredient - tetrahydrocannabinol.

The plant strains used for 'dope' require high levels of heat and light to produce this active ingredient. These strains do not grow commercially outdoor in Irish conditions

Go read the thread detailed - its all in there - no point repeating what has already been discussed there in detail tbh

See:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_strains

http://www.hemptrade.ca/eguide/background/the-hemp-plant

STOP BELIEVING THINGS YOU READ ON THE INTERNET and taking it as true!?!?!

what about growing it indoors?
There is THC in "hemp" it's still the Cannabis plant.
what you have read on some thread on boards is not correct.

why cant you get behind the movement to have it legalise to allow farmers to make profits and grow it INDOORS in their farms with the necessary light and heat? WELL!?

dont bother · 12-06-2019 4:04pm

gozunda wrote: »

No hemp is a variety of plant of that family - usually Cannabis sativa and contains little or no active cannabis active ingredient - tetrahydrocannabinol.

The plant strains used for 'dope' require high levels of heat and light to produce this active ingredient. These strains do not grow commercially outdoor in Irish conditions

Go read the thread detailed - its all in there - no point repeating what has already been discussed there in detail tbh

See:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_strains

http://www.hemptrade.ca/eguide/background/the-hemp-plant

ah look, you havent a clue at all, have you?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 12-06-2019 4:04pm

Growing cannabis inside on any kind of scale will require significant investment and labour up front and it's pretty tricky to get right at the start, as many of us might have an idea of. Going from raising cattle to growing weed isn't like switching from being on the till to the shop floor either like.

Presumably in the next twenty years there will be legal weed farms in Ireland but I can't see it being any large scale solution. It'll also realistically involve a good deal of subsidisation at the start.

The mental image of the Teagasc seminars is pretty entertaining though I must say...

Boom_Bap · 12-06-2019 4:05pm

Growing good weed also needs a perfect storm of non stormy weather conditions.

jimgoose · 12-06-2019 4:06pm

dont bother wrote: »

ah look, you havent a clue at all, have you?

Says the man advocating beef farmers stop all that ruddy nonsense and start growing cannabis. Not malting barley, nor yet feed maize, but fuckin' cannabis. :pac::pac::pac:

SirGerryAdams · 12-06-2019 4:08pm

Jamari Defeated Plantation wrote: »

During one of those really icy winters about ten years ago a farmer in a tractor gave me and three other cars of people he didn't know a tow up an icy hill in his tractor, took him most of an hour. It was Christmas Eve! My da tried to give him 20 quid to say thanks and he went nuts.

I grew up in the country and you can't go a week without something happening to someone that they need a farmer to fix. I don't agree with killing animals to eat but farmers are alright!

Very unvegan of me not to gleefully wish financial ruin on them I know!

That's the beauty of rural Ireland. You don't even get a wave from someone when you pull in in the estate.

SirGerryAdams · 12-06-2019 4:10pm

You'd wonder about these vegans and on about the environment while they munch on their avocados imported from south america.

_Brian · 12-06-2019 4:11pm

So the the thrust of the advice from Vegans to farmers is grow an illegal crop which can only be grown with massive expensive indoor equipment.

Farmers don’t care about your average vegans. Extremist vegan groups however make a point of going about making a nuisance of themselves and spreading a load of false propaganda about farming in general.

I’m not for factory style farming I think it’s a bad step in food production.

But proper extensive farming of animals with high welfare standards produces good nutritious food that people need and want.

Much of Ireland is useful for nothing but growing lots of good grass which we turn into beef, lamb and dairy products which are among the best in the world in quality, animal welfare and ecological grounds.

jimgoose · 12-06-2019 4:14pm

_Brian wrote: »

So the the thrust of the advice from Vegans to farmers is grow an illegal crop which can only be grown with massive expensive indoor equipment.

Farmers don’t care about your average vegans. Extremist vegan groups however make a point of going about making a nuisance of themselves and spreading a load of false propaganda about farming in general.

I’m not for factory style farming I think it’s a bad step in food production.

But proper extensive farming of animals with high welfare standards produces good nutritious food that people need and want.

Much of Ireland is useful for nothing but growing lots of good grass which we turn into beef, lamb and dairy products which are among the best in the world in quality, animal welfare and ecological grounds.

^^^

Thelonious Monk · 12-06-2019 4:15pm

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

You'd wonder about these vegans and on about the environment while they munch on their avocados imported from south america.

Did you know Leonardo DiCaprio has a private jet? I'd say most avocado is served with meat in Ireland anyway, burritos etc.

gozunda · 12-06-2019 4:16pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Would you stop, all you do is repeat yourself.
It does not change the fact it is the same plant and you said it can't grow here, which is wrong.

Christ on a bike - would you stop and actually read what is written and stop the bs. Dont believe anyone here? That's fine. Hemp is a specific plant variety used for industrial materials - It is not 'cannabis" variety used for drugs - which will not grow succesfully (commercially) here. Go look it up yourself if you dont believe anyone else. Tbh Iv'e never met so many "opinionated vegetable eaters" who know nothing about vegetation in my life :pac:

Deebles McBeebles · 12-06-2019 4:18pm

_Brian wrote: »

So the the thrust of the advice from Vegans to farmers is grow an illegal crop which can only be grown with massive expensive indoor equipment.

Farmers don’t care about your average vegans. Extremist vegan groups however make a point of going about making a nuisance of themselves and spreading a load of false propaganda about farming in general.

I’m not for factory style farming I think it’s a bad step in food production.

But proper extensive farming of animals with high welfare standards produces good nutritious food that people need and want.

Much of Ireland is useful for nothing but growing lots of good grass which we turn into beef, lamb and dairy products which are among the best in the world in quality, animal welfare and ecological grounds.

One person who is not a vegan said that, I wouldn't call it the thrust of the argument from vegans. My part in it was purely for enjoyment (not a vegan either).

All change requires work. Judging from the amount of people growing hemp this year in comparison to last year I would say some farmers are putting in that work and when cannabis is eventually legalised they will be all set up for it.

Completely agree on the high animal welfare standards bit as well as the need for the products it produces.

Deebles McBeebles · 12-06-2019 4:20pm

gozunda wrote: »

Christ on a bike - would you stop and actually read what is written and stop the bs. Dont believe anyone here? That's fine. Hemp is a specific plant variety used for industrial materials - It is not 'cannabis" variety used for drugs - which will not grow succesfully (commercially) here. Go look it up yourself if you dont believe anyone else. Tbh Iv'e never met so many "opinionated vegetable eaters" who know nothing about vegetation in my life :pac:

I can't keep repeating myself, G. Its tiresome.

Not a vegan by the way.

gozunda · 12-06-2019 4:23pm

_Brian wrote: »

So the the thrust of the advice from Vegans to farmers is grow an illegal crop which can only be grown with massive expensive indoor equipment.

Farmers don’t care about your average vegans. Extremist vegan groups however make a point of going about making a nuisance of themselves and spreading a load of false propaganda about farming in general.

I’m not for factory style farming I think it’s a bad step in food production.

But proper extensive farming of animals with high welfare standards produces good nutritious food that people need and want.

Much of Ireland is useful for nothing but growing lots of good grass which we turn into beef, lamb and dairy products which are among the best in the world in quality, animal welfare and ecological grounds.

Yeah and allegedly those involved in agriculture and horticulture do not know what they are talking about. We must defer to those who like to get stoned for horticultural and agricultural advice. Right so I'm off to grow bananas ...

biko · 12-06-2019 4:23pm

_Brian · 12-06-2019 4:24pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

One person who is not a vegan said that, I wouldn't call it the thrust of the argument from vegans. My part in it was purely for enjoyment (not a vegan either).

All change requires work. Judging from the amount of people growing hemp this year in comparison to last year I would say some farmers are putting in that work and when cannabis is eventually legalised they will be all set up for it.

Completely agree on the high animal welfare standards bit as well as the need for the products it produces.

Doesn’t change the fact that much of the country can’t be ploughed and tilled because of soils and underlying material.

Effects · 12-06-2019 4:24pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

It does not change the fact it is the same plant and you said it can't grow here, which is wrong.

Maybe it can't be grown here on a commercial scale?

I'm sure the majority of the illegal grow houses here are bypassing the meter so not paying for the electricity costs to grow the plant. Farmers can't really do the same.

yerwanthere123 · 12-06-2019 4:25pm

I've never seen a forum more obsessed with vegans and travellers. Have we done a thread on vegan travellers yet?

_Brian · 12-06-2019 4:27pm

What we do need to allow some farmland out of production is a proper natural native forestry scheme.

Get land into proper native forestry with continuous canopy management not this dreadful Sitka Spruce with clearfell.

Proper payment schemes for the lifetime with farmers changing to foresters managing the resource. Lifetime payments for the forests in return for public access to the new forested areas.

It would be a real win for the country.

Thelonious Monk · 12-06-2019 4:27pm

Given the environmental impact of beef and dairy farming and the fact we have 9 million cows and export something like 90% of the produce, do people think we should just keep growing this sector? It's not like it's feeding the population of Ireland either.
It reminds me of the fishing thing, our seas are completely overfished it's a bigger threat to marine life than plastic yet we can't put a ban on it because some people might be out of work. Surely we need to look at the bigger picture?

I don't know where this opinion that we produce beef in a really clean way comes from, experts say otherwise

Claims from the agricultural industry that Ireland was a “world leader” in carbon efficiency in its food production were inaccurate, An Taisce said. The environmental group said a recent United Nations report found Ireland to be the “most carbon-intensive beef producer in Europe”, the committee heard.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/irish-agriculture-greenwashing-its-climate-impact-an-taisce-1.3855084

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/dairy/irish-dairy-farms-produce-three-times-more-emissions-than-beef-tillage-and-sheep-teagasc-37953101.html

Surely we can continue to eat meat and dairy but do we really need 9 million cows and to keep expanding indefinitely?

gozunda · 12-06-2019 4:29pm

Yurt! wrote: »

LOL Reefer madness. Everything in moderation Gozmund, including internet rampages.My thoughts? Vegans, as irritating as they can be sometimes, are no match for the paranoid farmer who thinks Tristan from Blackrock eating kale and hummus poses a mortal threat to his way of life. You don't need to be hitting the peace pipe to get paranoid evidently.

Hey Tristan - didnt know what your real name was tbh

. No dont give a monkies what you eat. So just some more bull****e anti farming rhetoric then? Fair enough. You do need to give up advocating the drugs sunshine - they can cause serious cognitive dysfunction. But there you go ...

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 12-06-2019 4:32pm

biko wrote: »

Yous have that one fcuking joke I swear to God. Eating meat obviously doesn't do much for the sense of humour. Honestly it's been about 15 years. Sure maybe work in the words "triggered" and "attack helicopter" and you've got a full bingo card of things people with Jordan Peterson posters and swords on their walls think are hilarious. Theyll give you an award, probably.

_Brian · 12-06-2019 4:32pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Given the environmental impact of beef and dairy farming and the fact we have 9 million cows and export something like 90% of the produce, do people think we should just keep growing this sector? It's not like it's feeding the population of Ireland either.
It reminds me of the fishing thing, our seas are completely overfished it's a bigger threat to marine life than plastic yet we can't put a ban on it because some people might be out of work. Surely we need to look at the bigger picture?

I don't know where this opinion that we produce beef in a really clean way comes from, experts say otherwise

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/irish-agriculture-greenwashing-its-climate-impact-an-taisce-1.3855084

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/dairy/irish-dairy-farms-produce-three-times-more-emissions-than-beef-tillage-and-sheep-teagasc-37953101.html

Surely we can continue to eat meat and dairy but do we really need 9 million cows and to keep expanding indefinitely?

It’s definitely a conversation that needs to be had.
Growing the numbers so much is leading to factory style farming and I don’t think that’s he image the majority of farmers want of their produce.

I think we should have a “pasture fed” scheme too where traditional breed animals are reared with minimal housing and additional feeds.

_Brian · 12-06-2019 4:37pm

Consumers are a major pet of the problem regarding farming practice.

There is far too much food being bought on price alone.

Consumers need to seek out quality suppliers. Free range chicken, eggs and pork.
Organic if that’s your thing.

Buying from butchers killing their own animals rather than supermarkets that are on league with feedlots to keep cattle housed 24/7/365

Very hard for farmers to change to lower production more expensive systems when consumers are buying on price alone.

A large % of organic beef here is sold commercially as there is no market, that’s a shame and it’s stopping more farms go organic.

SirGerryAdams · 12-06-2019 4:38pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Given the environmental impact of beef and dairy farming and the fact we have 9 million cows and export something like 90% of the produce, do people think we should just keep growing this sector? It's not like it's feeding the population of Ireland either.
It reminds me of the fishing thing, our seas are completely overfished it's a bigger threat to marine life than plastic yet we can't put a ban on it because some people might be out of work. Surely we need to look at the bigger picture?

I don't know where this opinion that we produce beef in a really clean way comes from, experts say otherwise

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/irish-agriculture-greenwashing-its-climate-impact-an-taisce-1.3855084

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/dairy/irish-dairy-farms-produce-three-times-more-emissions-than-beef-tillage-and-sheep-teagasc-37953101.html

Surely we can continue to eat meat and dairy but do we really need 9 million cows and to keep expanding indefinitely?

Apply this logic to a multinational and you'll have everyone shouting you down over jobs jobs jobs.

Do we really need more jobs, keeping expanding indefinitely?

_Brian · 12-06-2019 4:39pm

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Apply this logic to a multinational and you'll have everyone shouting you down over jobs jobs jobs.

Do we really need more jobs, keeping expanding indefinitely?

There is the fact that 2/3 of beef farms are loosing money. Average income of something like €8k. What we’re doing isn’t working either.

Thelonious Monk · 12-06-2019 4:40pm

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Apply this logic to a multinational and you'll have everyone shouting you down over jobs jobs jobs.

Do we really need more jobs, keeping expanding indefinitely?

Well no, continuous economic growth shouldn't be the only aim of a Government

Thelonious Monk · 12-06-2019 4:41pm

_Brian wrote: »

Consumers are a major pet of the problem regarding farming practice.

There is far too much food being bought on price alone.

Consumers need to seek out quality suppliers. Free range chicken, eggs and pork.
Organic if that’s your thing.

Buying from butchers killing their own animals rather than supermarkets that are on league with feedlots to keep cattle housed 24/7/365

Very hard for farmers to change to lower production more expensive systems when consumers are buying on price alone.

A large % of organic beef here is sold commercially as there is no market, that’s a shame and it’s stopping more farms go organic.

Well even if Irish people did all buy organic they're still exporting the other 90% of dairy and beef that is produced the current way no?

jimgoose · 12-06-2019 4:42pm

_Brian wrote: »

There is the fact that 2/3 of beef farms are loosing money. Average income of something like €8k. What we’re doing isn’t working either.

The reality is that farms, beef, dairy and tillage, need to be bigger. A lot bigger than they are now, and with some serious capital expenditure. That way they'll produce income. However, a lot of current farmers will at the same time need to get out of it, and do something else.

About them vegans lads

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