About them vegans lads

Thelonious Monk · 12-06-2019 4:15pm

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

You'd wonder about these vegans and on about the environment while they munch on their avocados imported from south america.

Did you know Leonardo DiCaprio has a private jet? I'd say most avocado is served with meat in Ireland anyway, burritos etc.

gozunda · 12-06-2019 4:16pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Would you stop, all you do is repeat yourself.
It does not change the fact it is the same plant and you said it can't grow here, which is wrong.

Christ on a bike - would you stop and actually read what is written and stop the bs. Dont believe anyone here? That's fine. Hemp is a specific plant variety used for industrial materials - It is not 'cannabis" variety used for drugs - which will not grow succesfully (commercially) here. Go look it up yourself if you dont believe anyone else. Tbh Iv'e never met so many "opinionated vegetable eaters" who know nothing about vegetation in my life :pac:

Deebles McBeebles · 12-06-2019 4:18pm

_Brian wrote: »

So the the thrust of the advice from Vegans to farmers is grow an illegal crop which can only be grown with massive expensive indoor equipment.

Farmers don’t care about your average vegans. Extremist vegan groups however make a point of going about making a nuisance of themselves and spreading a load of false propaganda about farming in general.

I’m not for factory style farming I think it’s a bad step in food production.

But proper extensive farming of animals with high welfare standards produces good nutritious food that people need and want.

Much of Ireland is useful for nothing but growing lots of good grass which we turn into beef, lamb and dairy products which are among the best in the world in quality, animal welfare and ecological grounds.

One person who is not a vegan said that, I wouldn't call it the thrust of the argument from vegans. My part in it was purely for enjoyment (not a vegan either).

All change requires work. Judging from the amount of people growing hemp this year in comparison to last year I would say some farmers are putting in that work and when cannabis is eventually legalised they will be all set up for it.

Completely agree on the high animal welfare standards bit as well as the need for the products it produces.

Deebles McBeebles · 12-06-2019 4:20pm

gozunda wrote: »

Christ on a bike - would you stop and actually read what is written and stop the bs. Dont believe anyone here? That's fine. Hemp is a specific plant variety used for industrial materials - It is not 'cannabis" variety used for drugs - which will not grow succesfully (commercially) here. Go look it up yourself if you dont believe anyone else. Tbh Iv'e never met so many "opinionated vegetable eaters" who know nothing about vegetation in my life :pac:

I can't keep repeating myself, G. Its tiresome.

Not a vegan by the way.

gozunda · 12-06-2019 4:23pm

_Brian wrote: »

So the the thrust of the advice from Vegans to farmers is grow an illegal crop which can only be grown with massive expensive indoor equipment.

Farmers don’t care about your average vegans. Extremist vegan groups however make a point of going about making a nuisance of themselves and spreading a load of false propaganda about farming in general.

I’m not for factory style farming I think it’s a bad step in food production.

But proper extensive farming of animals with high welfare standards produces good nutritious food that people need and want.

Much of Ireland is useful for nothing but growing lots of good grass which we turn into beef, lamb and dairy products which are among the best in the world in quality, animal welfare and ecological grounds.

Yeah and allegedly those involved in agriculture and horticulture do not know what they are talking about. We must defer to those who like to get stoned for horticultural and agricultural advice. Right so I'm off to grow bananas ...

biko · 12-06-2019 4:23pm

_Brian · 12-06-2019 4:24pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

One person who is not a vegan said that, I wouldn't call it the thrust of the argument from vegans. My part in it was purely for enjoyment (not a vegan either).

All change requires work. Judging from the amount of people growing hemp this year in comparison to last year I would say some farmers are putting in that work and when cannabis is eventually legalised they will be all set up for it.

Completely agree on the high animal welfare standards bit as well as the need for the products it produces.

Doesn’t change the fact that much of the country can’t be ploughed and tilled because of soils and underlying material.

Effects · 12-06-2019 4:24pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

It does not change the fact it is the same plant and you said it can't grow here, which is wrong.

Maybe it can't be grown here on a commercial scale?

I'm sure the majority of the illegal grow houses here are bypassing the meter so not paying for the electricity costs to grow the plant. Farmers can't really do the same.

yerwanthere123 · 12-06-2019 4:25pm

I've never seen a forum more obsessed with vegans and travellers. Have we done a thread on vegan travellers yet?

_Brian · 12-06-2019 4:27pm

What we do need to allow some farmland out of production is a proper natural native forestry scheme.

Get land into proper native forestry with continuous canopy management not this dreadful Sitka Spruce with clearfell.

Proper payment schemes for the lifetime with farmers changing to foresters managing the resource. Lifetime payments for the forests in return for public access to the new forested areas.

It would be a real win for the country.

Thelonious Monk · 12-06-2019 4:27pm

Given the environmental impact of beef and dairy farming and the fact we have 9 million cows and export something like 90% of the produce, do people think we should just keep growing this sector? It's not like it's feeding the population of Ireland either.
It reminds me of the fishing thing, our seas are completely overfished it's a bigger threat to marine life than plastic yet we can't put a ban on it because some people might be out of work. Surely we need to look at the bigger picture?

I don't know where this opinion that we produce beef in a really clean way comes from, experts say otherwise

Claims from the agricultural industry that Ireland was a “world leader” in carbon efficiency in its food production were inaccurate, An Taisce said. The environmental group said a recent United Nations report found Ireland to be the “most carbon-intensive beef producer in Europe”, the committee heard.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/irish-agriculture-greenwashing-its-climate-impact-an-taisce-1.3855084

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/dairy/irish-dairy-farms-produce-three-times-more-emissions-than-beef-tillage-and-sheep-teagasc-37953101.html

Surely we can continue to eat meat and dairy but do we really need 9 million cows and to keep expanding indefinitely?

gozunda · 12-06-2019 4:29pm

Yurt! wrote: »

LOL Reefer madness. Everything in moderation Gozmund, including internet rampages.My thoughts? Vegans, as irritating as they can be sometimes, are no match for the paranoid farmer who thinks Tristan from Blackrock eating kale and hummus poses a mortal threat to his way of life. You don't need to be hitting the peace pipe to get paranoid evidently.

Hey Tristan - didnt know what your real name was tbh

. No dont give a monkies what you eat. So just some more bull****e anti farming rhetoric then? Fair enough. You do need to give up advocating the drugs sunshine - they can cause serious cognitive dysfunction. But there you go ...

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 12-06-2019 4:32pm

biko wrote: »

Yous have that one fcuking joke I swear to God. Eating meat obviously doesn't do much for the sense of humour. Honestly it's been about 15 years. Sure maybe work in the words "triggered" and "attack helicopter" and you've got a full bingo card of things people with Jordan Peterson posters and swords on their walls think are hilarious. Theyll give you an award, probably.

_Brian · 12-06-2019 4:32pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Given the environmental impact of beef and dairy farming and the fact we have 9 million cows and export something like 90% of the produce, do people think we should just keep growing this sector? It's not like it's feeding the population of Ireland either.
It reminds me of the fishing thing, our seas are completely overfished it's a bigger threat to marine life than plastic yet we can't put a ban on it because some people might be out of work. Surely we need to look at the bigger picture?

I don't know where this opinion that we produce beef in a really clean way comes from, experts say otherwise

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/irish-agriculture-greenwashing-its-climate-impact-an-taisce-1.3855084

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/dairy/irish-dairy-farms-produce-three-times-more-emissions-than-beef-tillage-and-sheep-teagasc-37953101.html

Surely we can continue to eat meat and dairy but do we really need 9 million cows and to keep expanding indefinitely?

It’s definitely a conversation that needs to be had.
Growing the numbers so much is leading to factory style farming and I don’t think that’s he image the majority of farmers want of their produce.

I think we should have a “pasture fed” scheme too where traditional breed animals are reared with minimal housing and additional feeds.

_Brian · 12-06-2019 4:37pm

Consumers are a major pet of the problem regarding farming practice.

There is far too much food being bought on price alone.

Consumers need to seek out quality suppliers. Free range chicken, eggs and pork.
Organic if that’s your thing.

Buying from butchers killing their own animals rather than supermarkets that are on league with feedlots to keep cattle housed 24/7/365

Very hard for farmers to change to lower production more expensive systems when consumers are buying on price alone.

A large % of organic beef here is sold commercially as there is no market, that’s a shame and it’s stopping more farms go organic.

SirGerryAdams · 12-06-2019 4:38pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Given the environmental impact of beef and dairy farming and the fact we have 9 million cows and export something like 90% of the produce, do people think we should just keep growing this sector? It's not like it's feeding the population of Ireland either.
It reminds me of the fishing thing, our seas are completely overfished it's a bigger threat to marine life than plastic yet we can't put a ban on it because some people might be out of work. Surely we need to look at the bigger picture?

I don't know where this opinion that we produce beef in a really clean way comes from, experts say otherwise

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/irish-agriculture-greenwashing-its-climate-impact-an-taisce-1.3855084

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/dairy/irish-dairy-farms-produce-three-times-more-emissions-than-beef-tillage-and-sheep-teagasc-37953101.html

Surely we can continue to eat meat and dairy but do we really need 9 million cows and to keep expanding indefinitely?

Apply this logic to a multinational and you'll have everyone shouting you down over jobs jobs jobs.

Do we really need more jobs, keeping expanding indefinitely?

_Brian · 12-06-2019 4:39pm

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Apply this logic to a multinational and you'll have everyone shouting you down over jobs jobs jobs.

Do we really need more jobs, keeping expanding indefinitely?

There is the fact that 2/3 of beef farms are loosing money. Average income of something like €8k. What we’re doing isn’t working either.

Thelonious Monk · 12-06-2019 4:40pm

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Apply this logic to a multinational and you'll have everyone shouting you down over jobs jobs jobs.

Do we really need more jobs, keeping expanding indefinitely?

Well no, continuous economic growth shouldn't be the only aim of a Government

Thelonious Monk · 12-06-2019 4:41pm

_Brian wrote: »

Consumers are a major pet of the problem regarding farming practice.

There is far too much food being bought on price alone.

Consumers need to seek out quality suppliers. Free range chicken, eggs and pork.
Organic if that’s your thing.

Buying from butchers killing their own animals rather than supermarkets that are on league with feedlots to keep cattle housed 24/7/365

Very hard for farmers to change to lower production more expensive systems when consumers are buying on price alone.

A large % of organic beef here is sold commercially as there is no market, that’s a shame and it’s stopping more farms go organic.

Well even if Irish people did all buy organic they're still exporting the other 90% of dairy and beef that is produced the current way no?

jimgoose · 12-06-2019 4:42pm

_Brian wrote: »

There is the fact that 2/3 of beef farms are loosing money. Average income of something like €8k. What we’re doing isn’t working either.

The reality is that farms, beef, dairy and tillage, need to be bigger. A lot bigger than they are now, and with some serious capital expenditure. That way they'll produce income. However, a lot of current farmers will at the same time need to get out of it, and do something else.

dont bother · 12-06-2019 4:46pm

gozunda wrote: »

Hey Tristan - didnt know what your real name was tbh . No dont give a monkies what you eat. So just some more bull****e anti farming rhetoric then? Fair enough. You do need to give up advocating the drugs sunshine - they can cause serious mental dysfunction. But there you go ...

farming causes untold amount of mental problems for people.
cannabis is not "drugs", no more than tea or coffee.

you really are ridiculous.
if the farming doesnt work out you should join the circus.

Gimme A Pound · 12-06-2019 4:55pm

I really don't understand the anger towards vegans either. I mean, yeah I'd understand aggravation by preachy ones (their numbers are greatly exaggerated in my experience) but there is also anger towards vegans just for the choice they made. Why? I eat all the animal products - a vegan person's diet has zero effect on me?

Similarly I don't get the anger/dismissal/outright denial with no support when man-made climate change is brought up. I certainly understand questioning it, but "it's a load of bollox"...?

I suspect it's due to knowing deep down the damage we are causing, and an unwillingness to face it.

_Brian · 12-06-2019 4:58pm

jimgoose wrote: »

The reality is that farms, beef, dairy and tillage, need to be bigger. A lot bigger than they are now, and with some serious capital expenditure. That way they'll produce income. However, a lot of current farmers will at the same time need to get out of it, and do something else.

How can farms expand.
The price of land exceeds the profit that can be made on it, possibly excluding dairy.

Plus you can’t make people see their land. I’m landlocked by 5 bachelors none would sell a sq meter.

jimgoose · 12-06-2019 4:59pm

_Brian wrote: »

How can farms expand.
The price of land exceeds the profit that can be made on it, possibly excluding dairy.

Plus you can’t make people see their land. I’m landlocked by 5 bachelors none would sell a sq meter.

Oh believe me I know. What needs to happen is for farms to amalgamate. And yes, I know - two chances. :pac:

_Brian · 12-06-2019 5:00pm

Brooks Salty Boardroom wrote: »

I really don't understand the anger towards vegans either. I mean, yeah I'd understand aggravation by preachy ones (their numbers are greatly exaggerated in my experience) but there is also anger towards vegans just for the choice they made. Why? I eat all the animal products - a vegan person's diet has zero effect on me?

Similarly I don't get the anger/dismissal/outright denial with no support when man-made climate change is brought up. I certainly understand questioning it, but "it's a load of bollox"...?

I suspect it's due to knowing deep down the damage we are causing, and an unwillingness to face it.

If the extremists were leashed up things would be easier. They are a bunch of fascists who want to force everyone to conform to their doctrine because they have an emotional weakness regarding farmed animals. They cannot see the difference between good and bad farming practice.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 12-06-2019 5:07pm

Brooks Salty Boardroom wrote: »

I really don't understand the anger towards vegans either. I mean, yeah I'd understand aggravation by preachy ones (their numbers are greatly exaggerated in my experience) but there is also anger towards vegans just for the choice they made. Why? I eat all the animal products - a vegan person's diet has zero effect on me?

Similarly I don't get the anger/dismissal/outright denial with no support when man-made climate change is brought up. I certainly understand questioning it, but "it's a load of bollox"...?

I suspect it's due to knowing deep down the damage we are causing, and an unwillingness to face it.

I know so many veg*ns. So so many. There's only the one preachy one I can think of and that bitch is preachy about every bloody thing.

I guess it's taken as an implicit criticism of one's own choices, and a moral one at that, and many people react defensively to that.

There's also a lot of vested interests in the idea that you need to eat meat to be healthy and walking talking rebuttals of that are annoying. I have never in my life eaten meat, I'm fairly tall, fit, never had a hospital stay or broken bone or serious illness, rarely sick at all actually, was on target or ahead of developmental milestones as a child, and I've had people insist to me that I'm actually sick and tired :pac:

The Satanist · 12-06-2019 5:10pm

Grayson · 12-06-2019 5:11pm

_Brian wrote: »

If the extremists were leashed up things would be easier. They are a bunch of fascists who want to force everyone to conform to their doctrine because they have an emotional weakness regarding farmed animals. They cannot see the difference between good and bad farming practice.

That didn't really answer the question.

I think in the future meat production will disappear. It generates a load of carbon and isn't a very efficient method of generating food. People will move towards a vegan diet over decades if not longer. Any meat that is eaten will probably come from a lab. And of course over the time vegan products will become tastier.

mention that though and you get a load of angry people screaming about how no-one can tell them what to eat.

Gimme A Pound · 12-06-2019 5:14pm

_Brian wrote: »

If the extremists were leashed up things would be easier. They are a bunch of fascists who want to force everyone to conform to their doctrine because they have an emotional weakness regarding farmed animals. They cannot see the difference between good and bad farming practice.

If they had a chance in the morning they would take away the choice from people regarding what they choose to eat.

Those types are dreadful, and they'd hate me as I love meat, chicken, fish, eggs and dairy (and block out thoughts of the ramifications) but I have honestly never encountered one. Not saying they don't exist but all vegans seem to get lumped in with them.

Yurt2 · 12-06-2019 5:14pm

The Satanist wrote: »

ART

About them vegans lads

Comments