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Fluoride and drinking water

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135

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    #62
    Women without Makeup
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 87 ✭✭Women without Makeup


    Fuzzytrooper wrote: »
    Step 1: add flouride to water
    Step 3: $$profit$$
    You're a mod. You shouldn't be encouraging people to believe conspiracies when you don't believe them yourself.


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    #63
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,187 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Women without Makeup wrote: »
    You're a mod. You shouldn't be encouraging people to believe conspiracies when you don't believe them yourself.

    You need to send your sarcasm meter back for re-calibration.


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    #64
    dense
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Women without Makeup wrote: »
    Well at least it's more evidence than what your showing.

    You said "bottled" water

    Here you go, the "minerals" in Ballygowan "bottled water"

    Element mg/l
    Calcium 114
    Magnesium 16
    Sodium 15
    Potassium 3
    Bicarbonate 400
    Chloride 28
    Sulphate 15
    Nitrate (as NO3) 9
    pH at source 7.2

    https://www.ballygowan.ie/our-water/ballygowan-water-source/

    Unless I'm mistaken the "bottled water" most people are drinking and speaking about here is mineral water, not "distilled water" which your video was about?

    Here's Volvic mineral water's mineral content:


    Calcium (Ca)
    11.5
    Chloride (Cl)
    13.5
    Bicarbonate (HCO3)
    71
    Magnesium (Mg)
    8
    Nitrate (NO3)
    6.3
    Potassium (K)
    6.2
    Silica (SiO2)
    31.7
    Sodium (Na)
    11.6
    TDS
    109 (dry residue 130)
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvic_(mineral_water)


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    #65
    Women without Makeup
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 87 ✭✭Women without Makeup


    dense wrote: »
    Here you go, the "minerals" in Ballygowan "bottled water"

    Element mg/l
    Calcium 114
    Magnesium 16
    Sodium 15
    Potassium 3
    Bicarbonate 400
    Chloride 28
    Sulphate 15
    Nitrate (as NO3) 9
    pH at source 7.2

    https://www.ballygowan.ie/our-water/ballygowan-water-source/

    Unless I'm mistaken the "bottled water" most people are drinking and speaking about here is mineral water, not "distilled water" which your video was about?
    Thank you, but the reason I referenced the video is that it shows that there's less total dissolved solids than tap water (at least according to the bottle he tested). And more importantly you know what you're getting.

    Also, I wouldn't call what you've listed as "grit and crap". I don't know what that's all about?


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    #66
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Russell Broad Munitions wrote: »
    Think it does protect teeth. Most concerns about fluoride aren't applicable at the levels in Irish tap water. It does accumulate in the pineal gland though and cause it to calcify, just like your teeth calcify. Unclear what tangible effect that has but I think it makes you find it harder to get to sleep.

    The best way to protect teeth with fluoride is to apply it directly to the teeth with a toothbrush and toothpaste containing fluoride. Then spit and rinse out the remaining toothpaste so you don’t ingest it.
    Even if the amounts in tap water are miniscule, when you actually look at the pros and cons of fluoridating water, it doesn’t make sense to do it. Especially when people can do a better job by simply brushing their teeth.


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    #67
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    donaghs wrote: »
    The best way to protect teeth with fluoride is to apply it directly to the teeth with a toothbrush and toothpaste containing fluoride. Then spit and rinse out the remaining toothpaste so you don’t ingest it.
    Even if the amounts in tap water are miniscule, when you actually look at the pros and cons of fluoridating water, it doesn’t make sense to do it. Especially when people can do a better job by simply brushing their teeth.
    I agree with you. I think there's also the issue of consent when it comes to things being added to the water.

    I personally avoid fluoride consumption but use fluoride toothpaste and mouthwash. I just think it's a polarising topic - Most people seem to either dismiss any concerns or have exagerated fears about it.


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    #68
    Women without Makeup
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 87 ✭✭Women without Makeup


    donaghs wrote: »
    The best way to protect teeth with fluoride is to apply it directly to the teeth with a toothbrush and toothpaste containing fluoride. Then spit and rinse out the remaining toothpaste so you don’t ingest it.
    Even if the amounts in tap water are miniscule, when you actually look at the pros and cons of fluoridating water, it doesn’t make sense to do it. Especially when people can do a better job by simply brushing their teeth.
    So apart from tea, what other foods naturally contain fluoride?


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    #69
    WardonGordon
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭WardonGordon


    After reading this thread I feel like a direct agent of the illuminati with all the fluoride varnish I have applied.

    The worst thing about these threads is that people take the ops post at face value with no research and then you get the amalgam and fluoride are poison patients.


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    #70
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,232 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    *Reads OPs post history.

    Yup, not worth the bother to refute...
    Reading his username is enough
    dense wrote: »
    Here you go, the "minerals" in Ballygowan "bottled water"

    Element mg/l
    Calcium 114
    Magnesium 16
    Sodium 15
    Potassium 3
    Bicarbonate 400
    Chloride 28
    Sulphate 15
    Nitrate (as NO3) 9
    pH at source 7.2

    https://www.ballygowan.ie/our-water/ballygowan-water-source/

    Unless I'm mistaken the "bottled water" most people are drinking and speaking about here is mineral water, not "distilled water" which your video was about?

    Here's Volvic mineral water's mineral content:


    Calcium (Ca)
    11.5
    Chloride (Cl)
    13.5
    Bicarbonate (HCO3)
    71
    Magnesium (Mg)
    8
    Nitrate (NO3)
    6.3
    Potassium (K)
    6.2
    Silica (SiO2)
    31.7
    Sodium (Na)
    11.6
    TDS
    109 (dry residue 130)
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvic_(mineral_water)

    Imagine we were getting volvic through the taps with the exact same mineral content you listed there, except maybe Silica. Silica was added in pumping stations. One_world_order would have a thread about Silica in water and how it's put in to control the population.

    There's no point arguing with conspiracy theory guys like this, they're "woke", you're not, you'll always be "sheeple" to them and they know better. Every study they don't like the results of will be funded by "Big whatever" and you can only trust ones where they cherry pick one line and take it out of context. I mean, the dentist industry wants to make the population docile? WTF, even in conspiracy theory standards, that's batshít crazy.


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    #71
    AntiClimax
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 36 ✭AntiClimax


    Russell Broad Munitions wrote: »
    tea is very high in fluoride.
    So if you're drinking tea with public water you're in dire straights.


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    #72
    AntiClimax
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 36 ✭AntiClimax


    Women without Makeup wrote: »
    Also, I wouldn't call what you've listed as "grit and crap". I don't know what that's all about?
    I don't think she can answer that question!


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    #73
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭donaghs


    AntiClimax wrote: »
    So if you're drinking tea with public water you're in dire straights.

    Has anyone in Ireland ever studied this and published results?

    Well others have noticed that the Republic of Ireland is the only European Country with a mandatory national legislation requiring artificial fluoridation of drinking water and has the highest per capita consumption of black tea in the world (made with boiled water obviously, which increases the fluoride concentration).

    The National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI), part the US Public Health system have looked at this:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4808922/

    Here's a little selection:

    "Tea is a hyperaccumulator of fluoride and chronic fluoride intake is associated with multiple negative health outcomes. In this study, fifty four brands of the commercially available black tea bag products were purchased and the fluoride level in tea infusions tested by an ion-selective electrode method. The fluoride content in all brands tested ranged from 1.6 to 6.1 mg/L, with a mean value of 3.3 mg/L. According to our risk assessment it is evident that the general population in the RoI is at a high risk of chronic fluoride exposure and associated adverse health effects based on established reference values. We conclude that the culture of habitual tea drinking in the RoI indicates that the total cumulative dietary fluoride intake in the general population could readily exceed the levels known to cause chronic fluoride intoxication. Evidence suggests that excessive fluoride intake may be contributing to a wide range of adverse health effects. Therefore from a public health perspective, it would seem prudent and sensible that risk reduction measures be implemented to reduce the total body burden of fluoride in the population."

    Has Jim Corr been spending time in the lab? Or is it time to admit that water fluoridation is probably, on balance, not a good idea?

    You could stop drinking tea, but its has many benefits to it - better to simplify remove the fluoride from water?

    "but what about our teeth?" you may say. Simple, brush your teeth using toothpaste.


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    #74
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Quickpip wrote: »
    Lies dam lies and statistics. Im sure there are studies that will validate any belief you have, its really the quality of study that matters.
    On the question of fluoridation of the irish water supply, the decay rate for children is significantly higher in Northern Ireland than the Republic. In fact they are amongst the worst in Europe. Now given the diets and oral hygiene levels of the populations would be similar how do you account for that?

    This is NOT a good comparison and excuse to keep fluoride in the water.

    A few years back I remember reading a quote from Coca Cola that the NI sales were higher per person than in the RoI. Can't find the quote now, but Northern Ireland does seems to have some particularly specific (perhaps cultural) dental issues:

    https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/poor-diet-and-dental-hygiene-the-root-cause-of-tooth-decay-1-1863691
    "Donncha O’Carolan, acting chief dental officer for Northern Ireland, says the problem will only be overcome when people reduce the level of sugar in their diets and regularly brush their teeth with fluoride toothpaste.

    Read more at: https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/poor-diet-and-dental-hygiene-the-root-cause-of-tooth-decay-1-1863691"

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-16024428 (Northern Ireland teenagers' tooth decay levels among worst in Europe)

    The lazy solution of flouridated water is suggested in the articles - but the key point is still that, in general, NI people are consuming too much sugar and not brushing their teeth as much as other Europeans!


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    #75
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,187 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    donaghs wrote: »
    Has anyone in Ireland ever studied this and published results?

    Well others have noticed that the Republic of Ireland is the only European Country with a mandatory national legislation requiring artificial fluoridation of drinking water and has the highest per capita consumption of black tea in the world (made with boiled water obviously, which increases the fluoride concentration).

    The National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI), part the US Public Health system have looked at this:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4808922/

    Here's a little selection:

    "Tea is a hyperaccumulator of fluoride and chronic fluoride intake is associated with multiple negative health outcomes. In this study, fifty four brands of the commercially available black tea bag products were purchased and the fluoride level in tea infusions tested by an ion-selective electrode method. The fluoride content in all brands tested ranged from 1.6 to 6.1 mg/L, with a mean value of 3.3 mg/L. According to our risk assessment it is evident that the general population in the RoI is at a high risk of chronic fluoride exposure and associated adverse health effects based on established reference values. We conclude that the culture of habitual tea drinking in the RoI indicates that the total cumulative dietary fluoride intake in the general population could readily exceed the levels known to cause chronic fluoride intoxication. Evidence suggests that excessive fluoride intake may be contributing to a wide range of adverse health effects. Therefore from a public health perspective, it would seem prudent and sensible that risk reduction measures be implemented to reduce the total body burden of fluoride in the population."

    Has Jim Corr been spending time in the lab? Or is it time to admit that water fluoridation is probably, on balance, not a good idea?

    You could stop drinking tea, but its has many benefits to it - better to simplify remove the fluoride from water?

    "but what about our teeth?" you may say. Simple, brush your teeth using toothpaste.


    What that concludes is that we should all drink less tea. A terrible idea


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    #76
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Just dozed off reading this thread....As I have no natural teeth and do not drink tea,

    But I agree we should not be forced to drink eg fluoride .

    Read somewhere it has psycho active properties?


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    #77
    ppn
    Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭ppn


    donaghs wrote: »
    The best way to protect teeth with fluoride is to apply it directly to the teeth with a toothbrush and toothpaste containing fluoride. Then spit and rinse out the remaining toothpaste so you don’t ingest it.
    Even if the amounts in tap water are miniscule, when you actually look at the pros and cons of fluoridating water, it doesn’t make sense to do it. Especially when people can do a better job by simply brushing their teeth.

    Well said!


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    #78
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Cut out the middle man. Let's just disperse fluorine through the air conditioning.


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    #79
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,037 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Just dozed off reading this thread....As I have no natural teeth and do not drink tea,

    But I agree we should not be forced to drink eg fluoride .

    Read somewhere it has psycho active properties?

    Same place you get your anti-abortion screeds is my guess.
    Go live on an island and drink well water if you want. You probably don't vaccinate, either.


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    #80
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Same place you get your anti-abortion screeds is my guess.
    Go live on an island and drink well water if you want. You probably don't vaccinate, either.

    Going back to thread you've actually posted on. Do you think water fluoridation is a good idea overall? Do the pros definitely outweigh the cons?

    Don't you think brushing teeth is a better solution?


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    #81
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    donaghs wrote: »
    The best way to protect teeth with fluoride is to apply it directly to the teeth with a toothbrush and toothpaste containing fluoride. Then spit and rinse out the remaining toothpaste so you don’t ingest it.
    Even if the amounts in tap water are miniscule, when you actually look at the pros and cons of fluoridating water, it doesn’t make sense to do it. Especially when people can do a better job by simply brushing their teeth.
    Most people don't do a better job nor wash their teeth effectively. In the water it's one of those public health strategies that works brilliantly. We ingest minuscule amounts of all kinds of things and a whole lot of us still get to live to a decent age in fairly good health.


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    #82
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,037 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    donaghs wrote: »
    Going back to thread you've actually posted on. Do you think water fluoridation is a good idea overall? Do the pros definitely outweigh the cons?

    Don't you think brushing teeth is a better solution?

    Teeth include hydroxyfluorapatite as part of the compounds that make them up. Teeth need fluoride to support healthy teeth, and it's best absorbed through ingestion. Less so through brushing.

    You don't want *too* much, but the amount in drinking water is slight.
    https://quizlet.com/119014872/fluoride-flash-cards/

    The results are pretty obvious in the US these days - younger people who grew up on fluoridated water, have way lower incidence of cavities than those like myself and peers who did not. Yes, dental hygiene has improved but without fluoride in toothpaste and water I don't think we'd see the big improvements we have. Dentistry in the US is actually not a great way to make a living anymore, you just plain have fewer customers for routine cavities.


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    #83
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    JMNolan wrote: »
    Can you cite peer reviewed sources for all of what you claim?
    More importantly cite the fluoride level otherwise you aren't comparing like with like.


    Anything using a concentration above our legal limit MUST be ignored as it's already considered unsafe. The EU's got your back.

    Anything using a control above the EU legal limit MUST be cited as confirming our legal limit is safe. Ignoring these papers is deliberately hiding evidence and a pure scumbag move.


    These two simple steps will remove most peer reviewed papers.


    You can also remove any sites/papers/authors/posters that don't do these two simple sanity check steps. They are not relevant in any way shape or form to the fluoride levels used in the EU. And in Ireland we use less than the limit.


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    #84
    Patty Hearst
    Closed Accounts Posts: 290 ✭✭Patty Hearst


    What happened to 'My body my choice'

    What about those of us who don't want a medicated water supply?


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    #85
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    I think the OP is right about the docile part because I'm not bothered about the issue.

    What exactly is wrong with a docile society by the way? Would people rather society was more violent?

    And Nazi Germany was a very violent society so that doesn't add up either.

    As for lowering IQs the German scientists were light years ahead on many things.


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    #86
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Teeth include hydroxyfluorapatite as part of the compounds that make them up. Teeth need fluoride to support healthy teeth, and it's best absorbed through ingestion. Less so through brushing.

    You don't want *too* much, but the amount in drinking water is slight.
    https://quizlet.com/119014872/fluoride-flash-cards/

    The results are pretty obvious in the US these days - younger people who grew up on fluoridated water, have way lower incidence of cavities than those like myself and peers who did not. Yes, dental hygiene has improved but without fluoride in toothpaste and water I don't think we'd see the big improvements we have. Dentistry in the US is actually not a great way to make a living anymore, you just plain have fewer customers for routine cavities.

    A lot of my reading says that the older perceived benefits of "systemic" (ingested) fluoride have been overrated, and the effects of "topical" (contact with your teeth) have been underestimated.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10086928

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15153698

    Young children in Ireland still get cavities. My kids tell about their peers having to get filings etc. They shouldn't, but maybe they are eating to many sweet and not brushing their teeth properly.


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    #87
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Patty Hearst wrote: »
    What happened to 'My body my choice'

    What about those of us who don't want a medicated water supply?
    It's not medicated. Buy bottled water.


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    #88
    Patty Hearst
    Closed Accounts Posts: 290 ✭✭Patty Hearst


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's not medicated. Buy bottled water.

    Many posters here have clearly stated that Flouride helps with preventing cavities...so yes it is medicated.

    If its not medicated as you say then can you explain why its in the water supply in the first place?


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    #89
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    I think the OP is right about the docile part because I'm not bothered about the issue.

    What exactly is wrong with a docile society by the way? Would people rather society was more violent?

    And Nazi Germany was a very violent society so that doesn't add up either.

    As for lowering IQs the German scientists were light years ahead on many things.

    ‘Docile’ is a pejorative word. Always brought up by water fluoridation opponents who probably never use it otherwise.


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    #90
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    I haven't intentionally drank fluoridated water in fifteen years, I'm not great at dental flossing or even brushing sometimes and I've never had a cavity.


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    #91
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Patty Hearst wrote: »
    Many posters here have clearly stated that Flouride helps with preventing cavities...so yes it is medicated.

    If its not medicated as you say then can you explain why its in the water supply in the first place?
    You just did and many of us are OK with it. You're clearly not. How are we being "medicated" anyway? This is a butting head topic and the use of flouride raises few issues save in those who want to imagine things.


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