Unquiet graves RTE 1 tonight.....9.30pm

end of the road · 02-10-2020 6:15pm

political analyst wrote: »

From 1972, the "civil power" was the British government itself. Direct rule brought repeal of Stormont laws that discriminated against Catholics.

I acknowledge there were high-level agents run by MI5, the FRU and RUC Special Branch inside Loyalist groups - and also inside the IRA. Therefore, Special Branch's and British intelligence's were not sectarian-motivated, in all fairness.

By the way, the Stevens Report isn't about the Glenanne Gang.

they were very much sectarian, as their operations in the IRA were about getting information so as to benefit their loyalist proxies.

blanch152 wrote: »

There will be a resettlement programme for unionists, some of the republicans on here have already promised that. In other words, if they don't like it, they can fu@k off somewhere else.

That is the republican mentality.

no "mentality" about it at all, it's a simple recognition that some unionists will never want to be part of a UI, so a program to help them to settle in britain where they wish to remain part of is proposed, and i have no doubt some will take up that offer.
republicans don't want these people to be forced out of the country, they simply recognise that some won't want to remain here and believe they need to be helped to resettle rather then simply abandoned.
just shows once again how modernist and forward thinking republicans are and why we are people for the many and not the few.

McMurphy · 02-10-2020 6:18pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, I had an inkling that you and your fellow travellers and thankers would see that post as a joke.

However, that is the type of humour that sees a lad put a Kingsmill loaf on his head and thinks he is funny. A sick twisted sense of humour.

The two lads leading the hilarity don't surprise me.

:pac:

Might be best to admit you didn't see the error you made in failing to spot the irony in what you thought you castigated chief, might look better on your character than crying foul when no foul was committed.

Anyways, now folk seem to have your attention, I believe there was a question asked (numerous times) of you that you either seem to have missed, or else flat out ignored.

Muahahaha wrote: »

ah blanch great to have you back. Now I'll ask that question for this third time seeing as you somehow missed it twice already. If you knew who the loyalist terrorists were who planted the Dublin and Monaghan bombs that killed 33 Irish citizens would you take that information to the Gardai?

blanch152 · 02-10-2020 6:22pm

McMurphy wrote: »

:pac:

Might be best to admit you didn't see the error you made in failing to spot the irony in what you thought you castigated chief, might look better on your character than crying foul when no foul was committed.

Anyways, now folk seem to have your attention, I believe there was a question asked (numerous times) of you that you either seem to have missed, or else flat out ignored.

I have no idea of the relevance of that question to any discussion on here.

McMurphy · 02-10-2020 6:30pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I have no idea of the relevance of that question to any discussion on here.

There you have it now - blanch, despite wanting to deflect every thread on this forum into a thread about the troubles from 40 years ago, now "has no idea to the relevance of a question" about the effects of the conflict in the North, namely the Monaghan/Dublin/Cavan bombing by Loyalists, (,and if he had info on the same would he report that info to the guards) with the aid of British security forces, to the discussion taking place in this thread which is about the Glenanne gang, who are reportedly responsible for the bombing of Monaghan/Cavan/Dublin bombing.

So now we have an actual thread about the troubles, and blanch doesn't want to discuss the troubles

Lord above give me strength.

end of the road · 02-10-2020 6:33pm

political analyst wrote: »

Failure to act on concerns about loyalist infiltration into the security forces would be negligence rather than malice. The only incident in which she authorised the killing of other human beings is the sinking of the Belgrano.

There is a problem with the definition of collusion - only one who acts with malice aforethought could be guilty of it, and it doesn't even exist as an offence in law! It's a bit like saying that bankers who gave mortgages without checking customers' personal finances are criminals even though what they did was not illegal.

given it was thatcher, malice was more likely.
the sinking of the Belgrano is the only incident she ordered the killing of human beings that we can absolutely prove.
however, there are other killings which are likely to have been ordered by her which sufficient evidence isn't available to show, but it is well known that she is likely to have ordered, and been very capable of ordering.

blanch152 wrote: »

Once again the mask slips to reveal a republican bent on getting his pound of flesh, rather than any attempt to reach out.

Not surprising, join the ranks, there are plenty of you around here.

no, he's simply pointing out the irony of what people like you stand for as part of your politics.
how you engage in fo-outrage about people proposing something to help some unionists, yet would engage in the same if they just abandoned them, yet say nothing about nationalists being abandoned when partition was created.
no mask to slip on the republicans part, i'm afraid.

end of the road · 02-10-2020 6:38pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I have no idea of the relevance of that question to any discussion on here.

it's very relevant as you complain a lot about killings carried out by republicans but say nothing about killings committed by any of the rest of the parties in the conflict.
your refusal to answer the question tells us a lot about what you believe.

Muahahaha · 02-10-2020 6:39pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I have no idea of the relevance of that question to any discussion on here.

So for the third time you refuse to answer a very simple question as to whether or not you would go to the Gardai with information about who the loyalist terrorists were that planted bombs that killed your fellow Irish citizens. I find that stunning really.

A new question for you blanch- are you a sympathiser of loyalist terrorism against Irish citizens?

FrancieBrady · 02-10-2020 6:43pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

So for the third time you refuse to answer a very simple question as to whether or not you would go to the Gardai with information about who the loyalist terrorists were that planted bombs that killed your fellow Irish citizens. I find that stunning really.

A new question for you blanch- are you a sympathiser of loyalist terrorism against Irish citizens?

blanch has asked this kind of question of republicans before and criticised vehemently those whom he thinks are withholding information...yet here he is refusing to answer the same.
I would have thought it would be a very quick and emphatic Yes answer.

James Brown · 02-10-2020 9:02pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Look, all I said is that some of the Shinners on here have proposed a resettlement programme. That is a fact.

It is also evidence of a particular attitude from them to Unionists.

No you didn't.
You stated:

blanch152 wrote: »

There will be a resettlement programme for unionists, some of the republicans on here have already promised that. In other words, if they don't like it, they can fu@k off somewhere else.

That is the republican mentality.

You stated that as a fact and backed it up with,
"Some of the Republicans on here have already promised that".

Should we get the UI, you are more than welcome to apply for a visa Blanch but no promises

political analyst · 02-10-2020 9:41pm

end of the road wrote: »

we believe him because the british are capable of such tactics and would have engaged in such a plot if they felt it would have benefited them.
remember that empire fever and belief in the empire was still quite large scale in the british government during the early years of the conflict at least and there was a want to keep hold of what remained of it by whatever means necessary.
nothing wrong with alining with gerry adams, he was a legitimate politician and is not guilty of any of the claims made against him, since if he was he would have been before the courts.

it actually would have been in their interests, they would have had cause in their mind to engage in a full scale invasion, slaughter the whole of the catholic population and then ultimately keep northern ireland as it was with no investment or oversite, but continue to benefit from what bit of strategicimportence it did bring at that time.
actually the deaths in the troubles probably would have been a lot less had the british army not been involved and instead a peace keeping force made up of forces from other independent countries been put in place.
really though a proper non-sectarian police force would have been capable of doing the job, as really this was a policing issue rather then a military one.

That's a load of bull.

end of the road · 02-10-2020 10:03pm

political analyst wrote: »

That's a load of bull.

it's not.

Junkyard Tom · 03-10-2020 12:24am

Muahahaha wrote: »

A new question for you blanch- are you a sympathiser of loyalist terrorism against Irish citizens?

It's very concerning that there appears to be a hardcore of anti-Republican Irish people that would collaborate with Unionists in an attempt to prevent a United Ireland.

FrancieBrady · 03-10-2020 12:32am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's very concerning that there appears to be a hardcore of anti-Republican Irish people that would collaborate with Unionists in an attempt to prevent a United Ireland.

Well if FG are stupid enough to ignore what the Irish people are telling them, hell rub it up them.
They accept that fiscally they have the best handle on the economy but look what happened when they suggested a state commemoration of the Black and Tans. the quickest about face by a government that has ever been seen such was the outrage.

political analyst · 03-10-2020 12:55am

end of the road wrote: »

it's not.

Weir's 'school massacre plot' claim is just that - a claim. The British authorities didn't do in Northern Ireland what they did in Kenya and Aden because Northern Ireland is part of the UK - so it's not a colony.

LuasSimon · 03-10-2020 8:01am

Whoever came up with the idea of dividing up the island a hundred years ago was the one I blame .
There was thousands of deaths in the civil war and thousands more in the troubles
We should have all remained part of the United Kingdom or all been part of a United Ireland not this fudge which to this day is causing serious problems .

smurgen · 03-10-2020 8:04am

Muahahaha wrote: »

So for the third time you refuse to answer a very simple question as to whether or not you would go to the Gardai with information about who the loyalist terrorists were that planted bombs that killed your fellow Irish citizens. I find that stunning really.

A new question for you blanch- are you a sympathiser of loyalist terrorism against Irish citizens?

The logical explanation is that he's xenophobic against Irish citizens and supports loyalist terrorists.

Floppybits · 03-10-2020 10:16am

smurgen wrote: »

The logical explanation is that he's xenophobic against Irish citizens and supports loyalist terrorists.

Or he is on another thread defending his beloved green party after one of their members said not to use big words when talking to rural people and travellers or it could be just his hate for anyone or anything that is opposite to the government stance.

McMurphy · 03-10-2020 10:38am

Floppybits wrote: »

Or he is on another thread defending his beloved green party after one of their members said not to use big words when talking to rural people and travellers or it could be just his hate for anyone or anything that is opposite to the government stance.

Have a look at how many threads posters have tried to turn into a Sinn Fein/Troubles in the north thread, it's absolutely staggering.

Then some of of them saunter into this thread - and when asked a direct question ref the topic of the thread (if they had info on members of the Glenanne gang who bombed the state would he pass this info on to the guards) and their response is "what relevance has that question to this discussion" :eek:

end of the road · 03-10-2020 12:46pm

political analyst wrote: »

Weir's 'school massacre plot' claim is just that - a claim. The British authorities didn't do in Northern Ireland what they did in Kenya and Aden because Northern Ireland is part of the UK - so it's not a colony.

it was a colony because it didn't remain part of the uk by choice, but via the threat of violence upon the irish nation. not to mention that it is part of the uk in name only, the british don't really care and never have done so really, they only kept it because at the time it was strategically important with the likes of belfast and it's industries. when all of that wained somewhat they were in a position where they had no real balls to pull out, hence the GFA.
the british didn't do all of what they did in other countries in northern ireland because it would have finished them as a nation. it's much easier to hide behind proxies and engage in collusion and get away with it then sending troops in to slaughter whole scale or get your proxies to engage in a large massacre. after all it was the 1970s now and the modern media were on the rise, so it would not have been as possible to hide the old ways from the public like it once was, bloody sunday being proof of this among others.
the claim about the school massacre i have no doubt is absolutely true given the history of the british army throughout the colonies.

Floppybits · 03-10-2020 2:51pm

McMurphy wrote: »

Have a look at how many threads posters have tried to turn into a Sinn Fein/Troubles in the north thread, it's absolutely staggering.

Then some of of them saunter into this thread - and when asked a direct question ref the topic of the thread (if they had info on members of the Glenanne gang who bombed the state would he pass this info on to the guards) and their response is "what relevance has that question to this discussion" :eek:

I have seen them. Sure he said on another thread that supporters of a particular party were engaging in homophobic and low level racism (whatever that is, I always thought racism was racism) and I asked him if he reported this and sure enough radio silence.

political analyst · 03-10-2020 6:16pm

end of the road wrote: »

it was a colony because it didn't remain part of the uk by choice, but via the threat of violence upon the irish nation. not to mention that it is part of the uk in name only, the british don't really care and never have done so really, they only kept it because at the time it was strategically important with the likes of belfast and it's industries. when all of that wained somewhat they were in a position where they had no real balls to pull out, hence the GFA.
the british didn't do all of what they did in other countries in northern ireland because it would have finished them as a nation. it's much easier to hide behind proxies and engage in collusion and get away with it then sending troops in to slaughter whole scale or get your proxies to engage in a large massacre. after all it was the 1970s now and the modern media were on the rise, so it would not have been as possible to hide the old ways from the public like it once was, bloody sunday being proof of this among others.
the claim about the school massacre i have no doubt is absolutely true given the history of the british army throughout the colonies.

The British military didn't perpetrate school massacres in Asia or Africa either. You are blinded by hatred of Britain.

Odhinn · 03-10-2020 6:24pm

political analyst wrote: »

The British military didn't perpetrate school massacres in Asia or Africa either. You are blinded by hatred of Britain.

Yeah, they were a bunch of saints.......

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/may/17/military.iraq1

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/29/winston-churchill-policies-contributed-to-1943-bengal-famine-study?CMP=fb_gu&fbclid=IwAR1EUDX1H85aR5PISmFby1JqKRwnD-SzFetufTA-6eUgrq4_bkeT0Vnw4is

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/aug/18/uncovering-truth-british-empire-caroline-elkins-mau-mau

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v27/n05/bernard-porter/how-did-they-get-away-with-it

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47358602

Odhinn · 03-10-2020 6:27pm

political analyst wrote: »

Weir's 'school massacre plot' claim is just that - a claim. The British authorities didn't do in Northern Ireland what they did in Kenya and Aden because Northern Ireland is part of the UK - so it's not a colony.

In the early 70's they did exactly what they did in Kenya and Aden - it was later that losing the PR battle made them change tac.

FrancieBrady · 03-10-2020 6:55pm

Charlie being put back in his partitionist hat doffing box.

Darragh Mackin of Phoenix Law, who appears briefly in the film, told Irish Legal News: “We are in dangerous times when a former minister of justice thinks it is appropriate to publicly challenge the rule of law in this manner.

“Not only is this a direct attack on the freedom of expression, but it is an attack on the separation of powers in circumstances in which Mr Flanagan publicly sought to challenge the credibility of a witness that a public inquiry, a police force, and the courts have deemed a credible and reliable witness based on an objective analysis of all the evidence.

“Such commentary is not only deeply unhelpful but it is ill-advised and seeks to undermine the relentless campaign for justice that the families of the victims have pursued.”

https://www.irishlegal.com/article/ex-justice-minister-rebuked-over-attack-on-rt-documentary-screening?fbclid=IwAR2Vn6io9MIyX8WvGZ0XsKcsH0idyM1FkGUpX0aueBYJIZnxqUD91CqHpNM

Fuascailteoir · 03-10-2020 7:57pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Charlie being put back in his partitionist hat doffing box.

https://www.irishlegal.com/article/ex-justice-minister-rebuked-over-attack-on-rt-documentary-screening?fbclid=IwAR2Vn6io9MIyX8WvGZ0XsKcsH0idyM1FkGUpX0aueBYJIZnxqUD91CqHpNM

Great to see him being challenged for his comments. One would have to suspect that he has some very murky dealings behind the scenes.

FrancieBrady · 04-10-2020 12:10pm

Have to say, as an advocate for the film, Sean Murray has been clinical with the actual facts and in taking down the usual queue of partitionist deniers. Here he is eviscerating Eoghan Harris's huffy and hat doffing defensive response to the film.

EjeYHrWXsAA14d9?format=jpg&name=900x900

end of the road · 04-10-2020 2:55pm

political analyst wrote: »

The British military didn't perpetrate school massacres in Asia or Africa either. You are blinded by hatred of Britain.

civilian massacres including schools were standard practice across the colonies, that is established fact.
stating facts is not hatred.

smurgen · 04-10-2020 3:07pm

political analyst wrote: »

The British military didn't perpetrate school massacres in Asia or Africa either. You are blinded by hatred of Britain.

Well they did turn some schools in kenya into concentration camps where they tortured and butchered civilians.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-49363653

smurgen · 04-10-2020 3:40pm

Floppybits wrote: »

Or he is on another thread defending his beloved green party after one of their members said not to use big words when talking to rural people and travellers or it could be just his hate for anyone or anything that is opposite to the government stance.

Sounds like someone he'd support.

https://twitter.com/TheSundayLife/status/1312696742354341888?s=19

Fr D Maugire · 04-10-2020 5:49pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Whoever came up with the idea of dividing up the island a hundred years ago was the one I blame .
There was thousands of deaths in the civil war and thousands more in the troubles
We should have all remained part of the United Kingdom or all been part of a United Ireland not this fudge which to this day is causing serious problems .

It was a British politician Joseph Chamberlain who first came up with the idea of partition as a alternative against the 2nd Home Rule Bill being passed in the 1890. Ironically, the Home Rule Bill would have seen Ireland remaining part of the UK, but having a limited assembly within Ireland. The Unionists were bitterly opposed to the idea of Home Rule even though it meant remaining part of the UK and instead supported the idea of partition.

It is simple really, the Unionists have always been opposed to the idea of giving/sharing any power with Catholics in Ireland, even though they were in a minority, they wanted to control all the power/wealth in Ireland, much like how apartheid South Africa was formed.

This did not stretch right across all Protestantism mind, as we can just look at the 1798 rebellion, Robert Emmett, the Young Irelanders, all which included Protestants who believed in a shared Island based on the principles of the French and American revolutions. Liberty and equality for all regardless of religion. It was the British Government and the hardcore Unionists who were opposed to such ideas.

Even the Home Rule party was founded by moderate Unionists who recognised the problems of direct rule from London, as illustrated clearly by the disaster of the famine and the inequalities in Land ownership etc. The first Home Rule was so mild and tame in its objectives, yet was strongly opposed by the Conservatives and Hardline Unionists, because it recognised the need for a shared island.

The constant opposition to the idea of Home Rule By Britain and the Unionists, and the rise in nationalism throughout Europe in the late 19th century is what eventually led to the Easter Rising, war of independence etc. If Home Rulle had been passed in the 19th century, there is every chance all of Ireland might still have been part of the UK. But who didn't want to share power?

Unquiet graves RTE 1 tonight.....9.30pm

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