Unquiet graves RTE 1 tonight.....9.30pm

buried

smurgen wrote: »

No other country on earth would have put Drew Harris in the position he was in.

Not surprising. FG are as orange as a two tonne pallet of fanta. But "shure isn't our leo great altogether tweeting about rock concerts and quoting movies an dat"

Mad_maxx

tdf7187 wrote: »

Disagree, many Irish people are in complete ignorance, due to the 'Irish' media being for the most part - particularly but not limited to the Independent group - aggressively anti-nationalist, partitionist, and pro-Loyalist.

horrible legacy of the equally odious and preposterous Eoghan Harris

Edgware

Mad_maxx wrote: »

horrible legacy of the equally odious and preposterous Eoghan Harris

God but you have it bad. Reading back issues of An Phoblacht again?

Edgware

maccored wrote: »

another security forces apologist

Anyone that doesnt agree with the knuckle dragging propaganda emanating from Murder H.Q. on Falls Rd has to be an apoligist for the other murder scum.

Edgware

Edgware wrote: »

Anyone that doesnt agree with the knuckle dragging propaganda emanating from Murder H.Q. on Falls Rd has to be an apoligist for the other murder scum.

This has fcuk all to do with sinn fein or republicans.....1 victim out of 151 was found to have republican links,and at that was caught up in a pub bombing


The garda commissioner covered up for this gang and all you can do.is drool.on about ,an poblacht,falls road and murder inc....fcuk sake,callous arrogance personified

Muahahaha

bocaman wrote: »

Why are people so astonished. Everyone knew there was collusion between the RUC and various loyalist death squads. It was classic counter insurgency tactics by the British government. As stated in the documentary they used they same tactics in Africa as tehir empire collapsed post WW2.

Yep and the blue print for Northern Ireland came from the blue print for Kenya. It was called Gangs and Counter Gangs and written by General Kitson as a manual in how to conduct operations in mass detentions, population relocation, food control and running counter gangs. He wrote it after his experience in Kenya at keeping down the population there. All the tactics used by the British in Northern Ireland are outlined and explained in detail in this book, published in 1960.

smurgen wrote: »

No other country on earth would have put Drew Harris in the position he was in.

It is absolutely incredible that Drew Harris was the RUC point man for MI5 and he literally knows the names of everyone who planted those bombs in Dublin and Monaghan. In what other country would you have a head of the police knowing who murdered 33 innocent civilians and not doing anything about it?

Tazz T

Growing up in Derry, everything in that documentary was common knowledge. Just no one outside of Northern Ireland wanted to believe it because it was so extreme. I missed the start, was the name of the British officer running the whole shebang mentioned?

The ultimate objective was to start a civil war so the brits could go in and kill with impunity, wiping out the IRA and anything to do with it, annihilating the population as collateral.

Always the conservative brit mentality 'we are better than you'. Still exists today, look at the latest Brexit debacle. There's no way they'll agree to the 50% & 1 clause in the Anglo Irish Agreement, if it ever comes up. They'll simply 'legislate' their way out of that too. They just signed it to get rid of the Irish problem by any means. Not a chance it'll be honoured if it interferes with the 'empire'.

maccored

Edgware wrote: »

Anyone that doesnt agree with the knuckle dragging propaganda emanating from Murder H.Q. on Falls Rd has to be an apoligist for the other murder scum.

you'd fit right in up in portadown.

kali.mist

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

It was very good, if you look back it’s amazing how little we in the South heard about the plight of Catholics at the time. Basically the whole thing was blamed on the IRA by most of the Southern media. Now the IRA did awful things and deserved to be condemned but the North was clearly toxic when the police were planting bombs hoping to kill civilians.

What? You did not want to know. It was only up the road.

speckled_park

Just watched the document ary. Absolutely shocking , sad and scary. I'm 27 and a bit ignorant of the history of the north up until recently. Watched the Netflix documentary on the showband killing in the last while too.

It's mad what went on up there and even sadder that successive governments since the founding of the state did little to help Irish people up there. Leo and Flanagan wanted to commemorate the auxs/tans? Crazy. On the surface appointing Harris looks dodgy too but I would need to read into it more. And Fianna Fail.. well Martin said recently unity is a decisive issue. What a joke that party are becoming. I guess his forefathers 100 years ago would have said allowing 2 seperate home ruling governments to run on this island would be a decisive issue too? Decisive to the point where we'll "shoot up" a school. Apologies if I am blabbering on a bit... Irish people need to bring back some of the pride and courage of Collins, Pearse, Connolly. Our leaders nowadays are cowards and we are to partly to blame for it too.

jelem

Solli wrote: »

The story does not end there. Drew Harris was appointed by FG as Garda Commissioner. He was also involved, see below.

“In 2010, then Assistant Chief Constable Drew Harris wrote a letter to the legal representatives of UVF victims telling them that they would not get an investigation into the wider questions raised by the activities of the Glenanne gang. The most significant wider question was the extent of state involvement in the gang and its murderous activities, including the deaths of at least 89 people.

In writing this letter, Drew Harris, who is now Deputy Chief Constable, was subverting a decade of assurance that the UK government had given to the Committee of Minister of the Council of Europe that investigations into state killings would be carried out independently and would examine patterns, links to reveal systematic violations by the state of the right to life enshrined in Article 2 of the European Convention of Human Rights.“

Source
https://www.relativesforjustice.com/drew-harris-must-resign-in-light-of-glenanne-judgment/

appreciate you comment on the program.
you comment on one side of the historic "story", what about the
irish government\politicians\ira\inla\garda etc. involvement?
Drew may be aware of both sides of story and as such
be a good nominee to head an irish police force.
it is unfortunate that political bias and small minded boxed in
minds and attitudes have been and are brought into positions of power and authority.
from an "outsider" living in ireland for approx 1/3 of life it is clear the
irish citizens have whilst crawled from the jackboot of catholic church somewhat,
the irish still bend over too easily to F.Fail and F Gail too easily. these two parties
being involved since rising and civil war in "all sorts" which have been detrimental
to irish citizens.
it is way past time those two parties were removed from power to give the citizens
some hope rather than last 20 years of same old same old

FTA69

jelem wrote: »

appreciate you comment on the program.
you comment on one side of the historic "story", what about the
irish government\politicians\ira\inla\garda etc. involvement?
Drew may be aware of both sides of story and as such
be a good nominee to head an irish police force.
it is unfortunate that political bias and small minded boxed in
minds and attitudes have been and are brought into positions of power and authority.
from an "outsider" living in ireland for approx 1/3 of life it is clear the
irish citizens have whilst crawled from the jackboot of catholic church somewhat,
the irish still bend over too easily to F.Fail and F Gail too easily. these two parties
being involved since rising and civil war in "all sorts" which have been detrimental
to irish citizens.
it is way past time those two parties were removed from power to give the citizens
some hope rather than last 20 years of same old same old

Load of absolute rubbish. Were the Guards systematically aiding the IRA while being directed by intelligence agencies answerable to the Irish government? Did Irish intelligence agencies have hands on involvement in the bombing of Britain? Did Irish intelligence services provide suitcases of intelligence to the IRA on British targets and sponsor them over a twenty year period? Did they b*llocks. The situations are absolutely incomparable.

The only time you had political figures aid Republicans was at the very start of the conflict in 1969 when people like Blaney and Haughey et al would have tried to procure arms. The reason they did this was because of mass pogroms directed toward the nationalist population resulting in the biggest forced movement of people in Europe since WW2. Pogroms which were actively encouraged by state bodies such as the police which were running riot at the time.

It’s telling that when British state policy of collusion is raised you get people desperately clutching at straws to try and make false equivalencies and throw in all manner of whataboutery. The reason being that collusion just smashes any notion of Republican baddies being the malign element in the conflict as opposed to the forces of ‘law and order’.

Fuascailteoir

When you consider the situation faced by nationalists at the time, where the state apparatus was actively conspiring to murder innocent family, friends and neighbours, it was wholely justifiable to opt for armed resistance.

Mad_maxx

Edgware wrote: »

God but you have it bad. Reading back issues of An Phoblacht again?

Not me

2011abc

Smoothie thread at 38 pages ,this at five .Coincidence ?

And now the presidents dog has died .I think Jesus could be literally weeping at this one if you’re a believer

igCorcaigh

Just tried to view this on the RTE player app.
Unwatchable. Ads mixed in with the program.

Crashes.

Goes back to frozen ads again.

Car crash of an app.

igCorcaigh

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

When you consider the situation faced by nationalists at the time, where the state apparatus was actively conspiring to murder innocent family, friends and neighbours, it was wholely justifiable to opt for armed resistance.

I guess it was, but I still cannot condone their killing of citizens, many of which were deliberate.

smurgen

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I guess it was, but I still cannot condone their killing of citizens, many of which were deliberate.

Not at all. But the collusion of British State actors with loyalist paramilitary forces coupled with the apathy of the FFG parties in the south meant that people were driven into the hands of extremists. Chaos breeds chaos. This is seen in every conflict zone the world over.

mehico

Tazz T wrote: »

Growing up in Derry, everything in that documentary was common knowledge. Just no one outside of Northern Ireland wanted to believe it because it was so extreme. I missed the start, was the name of the British officer running the whole shebang mentioned?

The ultimate objective was to start a civil war so the brits could go in and kill with impunity, wiping out the IRA and anything to do with it, annihilating the population as collateral.

Always the conservative brit mentality 'we are better than you'. Still exists today, look at the latest Brexit debacle. There's no way they'll agree to the 50% & 1 clause in the Anglo Irish Agreement, if it ever comes up. They'll simply 'legislate' their way out of that too. They just signed it to get rid of the Irish problem by any means. Not a chance it'll be honoured if it interferes with the 'empire'.

I'm not sure that people didn't want to believe what was going on in NI. There was so much talk of collusion going back decades and people knew that elements of the British state authorities could not be trusted. I hope the families of the victims of the Glenanne gang get justice.

James Brown

A good consise summation:

People Before Profit:

Sean Murray's powerful and unsettling documentary 'Unquiet Graves: Uncovering Britain's Secret War in Ireland' screened this week on Rté.

It details how members of the RUC, UDR and MI5 colluded with loyalist killers resulting in the murder of over 120 innocent civilians.

These sectarian murderers assassinated workers, farmers, shopkeepers, publicans and other civilians in a campaign of terror.

Now known as the Glenanne Gang, they rampaged through Counties Tyrone, Armagh and into the South in a sectarian campaign that lasted from July 1972 to the end of 1978.

A high court judgement in 2017 found the Ex- RUC officer, then PSNI Assistant Chief Constable and now Garda Commissioner Drew Harris to be obstructing an inquiry into the sectarian gang. He was accused of an “extreme” abuse of power in closing down an independent inquiry into state collusion with the Glenanne gang. He was accused of making it clear that “the state is not genuinely committed” to uncovering collusion or addressing the concerns of victims families.

Simply, Drew Harris attempted to cover up the actions of the RUC and the British states policy of collusion. Serving the RUC and keeping its dirty secrets means more to Drew Harris than truth and justice.

Drew Harris is a reminder of the corruption of political policing in Ireland, cover up's and links with shadowy organisations.

Drew Harris Must Go!

The subject needs to be discussed at government level. Great to see a party raise it. Tumbleweed from Labour et. al. likely vying for a spot on the next shambles of a civil war government.

maccored

Bowie wrote: »

A good consise summation:



The subject needs to be discussed at government level. Great to see a party raise it. Tumbleweed from Labour et. al. likely vying for a spot on the next shambles of a civil war government.

its barely been discussed anywhere - now if it had been damning the republican movement it'd be plastered everywhere. I think that in itself shows quite alot.

Jimbob1977

I think I read about this potential "school massacre" story in a book by Peter Taylor or by Joe Tiernan many many years ago.

The idea was to provoke an "out and out" civil war with the Nationalist population and allow the British Army to fight the Nationalists in open warfare.

Joe Tiernan's book about the Dublin & Monaghan bombings and The Murder Triangle is excellent. He was selling them door to door. I don't think the major printing houses wanted to touch it.

jelem

FTA69 wrote: »

Load of absolute rubbish. Were the Guards systematically aiding the IRA while being directed by intelligence agencies answerable to the Irish government? Did Irish intelligence agencies have hands on involvement in the bombing of Britain? Did Irish intelligence services provide suitcases of intelligence to the IRA on British targets and sponsor them over a twenty year period? Did they b*llocks. The situations are absolutely incomparable.

The only time you had political figures aid Republicans was at the very start of the conflict in 1969 when people like Blaney and Haughey et al would have tried to procure arms. The reason they did this was because of mass pogroms directed toward the nationalist population resulting in the biggest forced movement of people in Europe since WW2. Pogroms which were actively encouraged by state bodies such as the police which were running riot at the time.

It’s telling that when British state policy of collusion is raised you get people desperately clutching at straws to try and make false equivalencies and throw in all manner of whataboutery. The reason being that collusion just smashes any notion of Republican baddies being the malign element in the conflict as opposed to the forces of ‘law and order’.

well the documents etc. "meant to be annon\private" which the usa "school" had,
were handed over under "agreements" and unless you have read all- then both you and i
do not know the full extent of any "sides" involvement.
i heard at one time the usa would not allow uk to "invade" and basically ethnic clense,
as usa was irelands friend\supporter. this giving irish Dail, "room to manouver".
the friendship was seemingly not there when the docs. handed over, of course
many years later and political situation different.

Normal One

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I think I read about this potential "school massacre" story in a book by Peter Taylor or by Joe Tiernan many many years ago.

The idea was to provoke an "out and out" civil war with the Nationalist population and allow the British Army to fight the Nationalists in open warfare.

Joe Tiernan's book about the Dublin & Monaghan bombings and The Murder Triangle is excellent. He was selling them door to door. I don't think the major printing houses wanted to touch it.

It has been in the public domain for many years, it's not worthy of attention "down here" because there's no votes in it. They'll happily throw Kingsmill into the political football game though, despite knowing why it happened.

dd973

I've always wondered why the PIRA, the proper one from 1971 to the early 90's didn't whack more sectarian killers like Robin Jackson and Johnny Adair, even though it's documented in a book about the UDA unit he lead that the only killing Adair carried out was of a young Protestant with learning difficulties, he was more of a ringleader and organiser.

Lenny Murphy was so feared and unstable that rumour has it that the Loyalists gave the Ra a free pass to get him.

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

Not at all. But the collusion of British State actors with loyalist paramilitary forces coupled with the apathy of the FFG parties in the south meant that people were driven into the hands of extremists. Chaos breeds chaos. This is seen in every conflict zone the world over.

Bowie wrote: »

A good consise summation:



The subject needs to be discussed at government level. Great to see a party raise it. Tumbleweed from Labour et. al. likely vying for a spot on the next shambles of a civil war government.

Important messages from this documentary are being lost by people running other agendas.

The events depicted in the documentary did not justify the IRA campaign as smurgen makes out. That is a false narrative and takes away from the content of the documentary.

Similarly, linking the documentary to a snide attempt to get Drew Harris is silly at best.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

Important messages from this documentary are being lost by people running other agendas.

The events depicted in the documentary did not justify the IRA campaign as smurgen makes out. That is a false narrative and takes away from the content of the documentary.

Similarly, linking the documentary to a snide attempt to get Drew Harris is silly at best.

Are you for real, Drew Harris should not have been allowed anywhere near a policing job here. Irish citizens were slaughtered by agents of the crown and he tried his best to stop the families of victims from getting to the truth.

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

Important messages from this documentary are being lost by people running other agendas.

The events depicted in the documentary did not justify the IRA campaign as smurgen makes out. That is a false narrative and takes away from the content of the documentary.

Similarly, linking the documentary to a snide attempt to get Drew Harris is silly at best.

stop before you make an even bigger fool of yourself

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Important messages from this documentary are being lost by people running other agendas.

The events depicted in the documentary did not justify the IRA campaign as smurgen makes out. That is a false narrative and takes away from the content of the documentary.

Similarly, linking the documentary to a snide attempt to get Drew Harris is silly at best.

Maybe it's as well you stayed in the shadows if that is all you can offer.

McMurphy

Just for anyone interested, RTE1 at 7pm tonight, Scannal will be about Holy Cross primary school in North Belfast, which was the target if loyalist picketers.

Will be worth tuning into.