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Unquiet graves RTE 1 tonight.....9.30pm

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    #152
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    It will be fascinating to see partitionists and the FGers having to team with these guys to oppose a UI. Fascinating.

    They wouldn't have the balls because they know they'd risk losing power. FG/Unionists will form a pro-British faction in a UI which is fair enough.


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    #153
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    They wouldn't have the balls because they know they'd risk losing power. FG/Unionists will form a pro-British faction in a UI which is fair enough.

    Well if Charlie and Leo's intentions are anything to go by, you are correct.
    Although Leo got badly burned in the black and tans fiasco and threw Charlie under the bus.


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    #154
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    There is no dealing with unionism in its current form. After a UI vote passes the never-never-never crowd become irrelevant overnight and you do business with whoever steps forward to take unionism into a new Ireland.

    Bringing the people of the north into a UI will provide many opportunities to make a fairer country for everyone.

    Ya I can see that 50% plus 1 being a success


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    #155
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Edgware wrote: »
    Ya I can see that 50% plus 1 being a success

    How do you see denying a 50%+1 to the 51%?

    Is this the 'Lie down folks and wait until the Unionists become democrats' line again?


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    #156
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,272 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Edgware wrote: »
    Ya I can see that 50% plus 1 being a success

    There will be a resettlement programme for unionists, some of the republicans on here have already promised that. In other words, if they don't like it, they can fu@k off somewhere else.

    That is the republican mentality.


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    #157
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    There will be a resettlement programme for unionists, some of the republicans on here have already promised that. In other words, if they don't like it, they can fu@k off somewhere else.

    That is the republican mentality.

    What do you propose to do for 18% of Unionists led by Arlene Foster who say they cannot live in a UI?

    Abandon them like nationalists were after partition or offer those who do not have the luxuries of Foster, help?


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    #158
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    blanch152 wrote: »
    There will be a resettlement programme for unionists, some of the republicans on here have already promised that. In other words, if they don't like it, they can fu@k off somewhere else.

    That is the republican mentality.

    They are quite free to **** off if they're not happy. If they object or protest then intern them. Leave their housing and social areas to go to **** and lets change the election rules and boundaries to make sure they can't have any power.

    Sound familiar????


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    #159
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Edgware wrote: »
    Ya I can see that 50% plus 1 being a success

    There will be a hardcore of Unionists who will never accept a UI but that is regardless of what percentage vote for/against a UI.

    The vast majority of Unionists will just want to get on with it and within a couple of generations most will consider themselves Irish first, like the former Unionists/Protestants that remained in the south after partition.


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    #160
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,616 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Thousands upon thousands of stories like this. That is why there is such fear of a return to a hard border, because this kind of stuff will escalate and escalate again.

    Questions were asked in the HOC about an incident here when a much tortured football team (held up and detained over many many years going to games and individually) got out of their cars and buses en masse after being detained coming back from a dinner dance and had a fist fight with the soldiers. I believe it was like something out of the wild west.

    That kind of behaviour always always boils over. And it will again.

    Was that team Crossmaglen Francie? I remember that checkpoint as a kid when many went up from the south to shop in Newry, the army there were arseholes, they would be rifling through your Woolworths bags of shopping just to hold you up for half an hour. The way they treated people was atrocious.


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    #161
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Was that team Crossmaglen Francie? I remember that checkpoint as a kid when many went up from the south to shop in Newry, the army there were arseholes, they would be rifling through your Woolworths bags of shopping just to hold you up for half an hour. The way they treated people was atrocious.

    They were the same at Cloghue as well.


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    #162
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭political analyst


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Thatcher went to Oxford and was aware that her government were involved in killing innocent people. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/thatcher-aware-of-collusion-before-taking-office-1.781475

    Failure to act on concerns about loyalist infiltration into the security forces would be negligence rather than malice. The only incident in which she authorised the killing of other human beings is the sinking of the Belgrano.

    There is a problem with the definition of collusion - only one who acts with malice aforethought could be guilty of it, and it doesn't even exist as an offence in law! It's a bit like saying that bankers who gave mortgages without checking customers' personal finances are criminals even though what they did was not illegal.


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    #163
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭political analyst


    FTA69 wrote: »
    3 - trying to equate collusion with running agents etc is just b*llocks and deflection to be honest. The British tried to infiltrate the IRA with a view to closing it down, the British infiltrated Loyalism with a view to using them as proxies in their war against the IRA. In effect, the British state organised and directed the murder of its own citizens. Brian Nelson was the UDA’s director of intelligence, director ran by British intelligence and someone who ordered and organised targeted killings while being handled by the state. That’s collusion. And it went far higher than “an RUC sergeant”.

    There isn't much difference (if any!) between them because the effect of letting Brian Nelson commit murder is the same as the effect of letting Stakeknife commit murder.


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    #164
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Was that team Crossmaglen Francie? I remember that checkpoint as a kid when many went up from the south to shop in Newry, the army there were arseholes, they would be rifling through your Woolworths bags of shopping just to hold you up for half an hour. The way they treated people was atrocious.

    No, a small team in the Drumully Salient in Monaghan. Tight boys to be in a scrap with...I believe it was some sight to see.
    Anyone in the GAA would remember being held up crossing the border routinely on championship Sundays. They just did it to infuriate and annoy.


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    #165
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    They are quite free to **** off if they're not happy. If they object or protest then intern them. Leave their housing and social areas to go to **** and lets change the election rules and boundaries to make sure they can't have any power.

    Sound familiar????

    probably not to blanch152


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    #166
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    political analyst wrote: »
    Failure to act on concerns about loyalist infiltration into the security forces would be negligence rather than malice. The only incident in which she authorised the killing of other human beings is the sinking of the Belgrano.

    There is a problem with the definition of collusion - only one who acts with malice aforethought could be guilty of it, and it doesn't even exist as an offence in law! It's a bit like saying that bankers who gave mortgages without checking customers' personal finances are criminals even though what they did was not illegal.

    killing people is illegal. security forces bound to the law giving (usually) inaccurate info to loyalist kill squads is illegal. doesnt matter how many mortgages you want to check.


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    #167
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,272 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    They are quite free to **** off if they're not happy. If they object or protest then intern them. Leave their housing and social areas to go to **** and lets change the election rules and boundaries to make sure they can't have any power.

    Sound familiar????

    Once again the mask slips to reveal a republican bent on getting his pound of flesh, rather than any attempt to reach out.

    Not surprising, join the ranks, there are plenty of you around here.


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    #168
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Once again the mask slips to reveal a republican bent on getting his pound of flesh, rather than any attempt to reach out.

    Not surprising, join the ranks, there are plenty of you around here.

    Ha ha ha...that one went right over your head. :):):)


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    #169
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Ha ha ha...that one went right over your head. :):):)

    **Woosh**

    :pac:


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    #170
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    political analyst wrote: »
    Why? Many of those soldiers came from various religious backgrounds and thus wouldn't have cared about sectarian differences in Northern Ireland - some of them were black or of Asian ethnicity.

    I'm aware that Showband massacre survivor Stephen Travers said the gunmen who stopped him and his bandmates were directed by a man who spoke with an English accent but that in itself isn't proof that Robert Nairac - a Catholic who was educated at Ampleforth College (and who, therefore, would never agree to be involved in attacks on innocent people) colluded with loyalists.




    ??????


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    #171
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭political analyst


    maccored wrote: »
    killing people is illegal. security forces bound to the law giving (usually) inaccurate info to loyalist kill squads is illegal. doesnt matter how many mortgages you want to check.

    That was the doing of some security forces personnel on the ground in NI, not government ministers.


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    #172
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Odhinn wrote: »
    ??????

    Well, the Catholic Church is big on the sanctity of human life - just saying!


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    #173
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    political analyst wrote: »
    Well, the Catholic Church is big on the sanctity of human life - just saying!


    He may have missed that lecture series, as indeed have many others.


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    #174
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,616 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Once again the mask slips to reveal a republican bent on getting his pound of flesh, rather than any attempt to reach out.

    Not surprising, join the ranks, there are plenty of you around here.

    ah blanch great to have you back. Now I'll ask that question for this third time seeing as you somehow missed it twice already. If you knew who the loyalist terrorists were who planted the Dublin and Monaghan bombs that killed 33 Irish citizens would you take that information to the Gardai?


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    #175
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    political analyst wrote: »
    Well, the Catholic Church is big on the sanctity of human life - just saying!

    I believe Protestants believe in the sanctity of human life too.


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    #176
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    Would the people of Laois - Offaly still elect Charlie Flanagan if he stood for the DUP ?
    In fairness he got 21% of the vote in 2016 in laois alone but dropped significantly to 10.8% this year for the Laois Offaly constituency. He would be more at home standing in East Belfast or Lagan Valley .


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    #177
    jelem
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭jelem


    Odhinn wrote: »
    He may have missed that lecture series, as indeed have many others.
    include the catholic church -without a lol


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    #178
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    political analyst wrote: »
    John Weir is a convicted sectarian murderer. Why are so many people willing to believe his school-massacre plot claim? If there was a shred of truth in that accusation, he would have said it before he stood trial over 20 years ago.

    Justice for the Forgotten isn't doing itself any favours by allying itself with Gerry Adams.


    we believe him because the british are capable of such tactics and would have engaged in such a plot if they felt it would have benefited them.
    remember that empire fever and belief in the empire was still quite large scale in the british government during the early years of the conflict at least and there was a want to keep hold of what remained of it by whatever means necessary.
    nothing wrong with alining with gerry adams, he was a legitimate politician and is not guilty of any of the claims made against him, since if he was he would have been before the courts.
    political analyst wrote: »
    Why would senior British military personnel want to increase the level of violence in Northern Ireland anyway? It wouldn't be in the British government's interests to do that. Plotting such acts isn't the done thing at Sandhurst.

    The death toll of the Troubles would've been far higher if the British Army had been withdrawn from Northern Ireland in the 1970s.


    it actually would have been in their interests, they would have had cause in their mind to engage in a full scale invasion, slaughter the whole of the catholic population and then ultimately keep northern ireland as it was with no investment or oversite, but continue to benefit from what bit of strategicimportence it did bring at that time.
    actually the deaths in the troubles probably would have been a lot less had the british army not been involved and instead a peace keeping force made up of forces from other independent countries been put in place.
    really though a proper non-sectarian police force would have been capable of doing the job, as really this was a policing issue rather then a military one.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #179
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    There will be a resettlement programme for unionists, some of the republicans on here have already promised that. In other words, if they don't like it, they can fu@k off somewhere else.

    That is the republican mentality.

    Unfounded claptrap. Citing opinions as policy. A farce.
    It's unlikely a UI would mirror the barbarism of colonial Britain.
    The idea that if the people vote democratically for a united Ireland the wheels will come off is mere jaded scaremongering. Can't see Enda Kenny, Coveney or other nationalists supporting such a thing.


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    #180
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,272 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Ha ha ha...that one went right over your head. :):):)
    McMurphy wrote: »
    **Woosh**

    :pac:

    Yes, I had an inkling that you and your fellow travellers and thankers would see that post as a joke.

    However, that is the type of humour that sees a lad put a Kingsmill loaf on his head and thinks he is funny. A sick twisted sense of humour.

    The two lads leading the hilarity don't surprise me.


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    #181
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,272 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Bowie wrote: »
    Unfounded claptrap. Citing opinions as policy. A farce.
    It's unlikely a UI would mirror the barbarism of colonial Britain.
    The idea that if the people vote democratically for a united Ireland the wheels will come off is mere jaded scaremongering. Can't see Enda Kenny, Coveney or other nationalists supporting such a thing.

    Look, all I said is that some of the Shinners on here have proposed a resettlement programme. That is a fact.

    It is also evidence of a particular attitude from them to Unionists.


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