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How to alert driver of presence?

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24

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    #32
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,215 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    average_runner wrote: »
    Apparently the headphones is not against the law, i don't understand why not.

    Because if hearing was important then car stereos, windows, soundproofing etc. would all be banned!


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    #33
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    It is amazing how quiet it is inside a car compared to outside on a busy street.


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    #34
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    C3PO wrote: »
    Oh ... here we go again!

    Nothing I said was wrong, its the same for a car, when they break a light we all see it as it happens in front of you


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    #35
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Because if hearing was important then car stereos, windows, soundproofing etc. would all be banned!

    Yet hearing is usually the first warning signal of danger :)


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    #36
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,266 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    average_runner wrote: »
    Taxuser1 wrote: »
    i've seen a lot of drivers with headphones in now - a roar often isn't enough so I use a knuckle duster once I approach town.

    Apparently the headphones is not against the law, i don't understand why not.
    I’d argue that it’s illegal to have a phone on your body while driving , and that headphones are connected to the phone and thus constitute to be part of the phone and are therefore illegal


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    #37
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    ted1 wrote: »
    I’d argue that it’s illegal to have a phone on your body while driving , and that headphones are connected to the phone and thus constitute to be part of the phone and are therefore illegal

    I would say you lose that one. Its illegal to have the phone in your hand and be using it when driving, but there is nothing to say you can't have headphones connected or bluetooth to a phone and listen to music, once you don't touch the phone to do an action on it.

    Silly I know


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    #38
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,215 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    average_runner wrote: »
    Yet hearing is usually the first warning signal of danger :)

    Really? Explain. Explain how/what you hear can warn you of an immediate danger? A gunshot maybe, but when driving?


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    #39
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    whiskeyman wrote: »
    Hitting someones car, no matter how lightly, is never a good idea.

    It's saved me from severe damage a couple of times. Sometimes there's no other way of alerting a driver who doesn't know what they are doing.


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    #40
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I was gonna suggest an air horn.. And read above that they're illegal...to be honest a bell is gonna be ****e useless for anyone but a pedestrian, and even then...
    But... An air horn ain't gonna do múch in a emergency either... I never have to time to use the horn in the van in anything other than a friendly warning.. Or an angry after the fact F-you (which while satisfying ain't gonna change much)

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #41
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Really? Explain. Explain how/what you hear can warn you of an immediate danger? A gunshot maybe, but when driving?

    You can hear another car horn or heavy braking. Also someone in the car shouting at you. If you have your window down you will hear a scream easily.
    Often heard cyclists shouting at the bus when I was on it and no window open!!


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    #42
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Markcheese wrote: »
    I was gonna suggest an air horn.. And read above that they're illegal...to be honest a bell is gonna be ****e useless for anyone but a pedestrian, and even then...

    Yeah, bells aren't really going to make much difference in a life-or-death quick-reaction scenario. But when you feel that a pedestrian is going to step out in the next few seconds, or that the car with the open window is about to change trajectory, they can make a difference. Or going around blind corners on shared-space facilities, or coming out of alleyways. Bit less embarrassing than shouting "look out!" or whatever all the time.


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    #43
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Incidentally, headphones megathread is available for people who really have to revisit the subject.


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    #44
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,266 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    average_runner wrote: »
    ted1 wrote: »
    I’d argue that it’s illegal to have a phone on your body while driving , and that headphones are connected to the phone and thus constitute to be part of the phone and are therefore illegal

    I would say you lose that one. Its illegal to have the phone in your hand and be using it when driving, but there is nothing to say you can't have headphones connected or bluetooth to a phone and listen to music, once you don't touch the phone to do an action on it.

    Silly I know
    you don’t have to be using it for it to be illegal. Just holding it by hand or “supporting or cradling it with another part of the body “


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    #45
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,215 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    average_runner wrote: »
    You can hear another car horn or heavy braking. Also someone in the car shouting at you. If you have your window down you will hear a scream easily.
    Often heard cyclists shouting at the bus when I was on it and no window open!!

    If you hear a scream and there is nobody lying on the bonnet of your car it's probably too late! :D


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    #46
    Borderfox
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭Borderfox


    Depends on the situation, usually a shout but on occasion I have knocked on the window. The knocking on the window was for a very close pass into a bike lane in Castleknock where I had to go so close to the kerb I was hitting the left pedal off the kerb.


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    #47
    Alanstrainor
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 23,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    I have hit on the side of cars before which have come in on top of me for some reason or another, but I now have to question the sense in it. If they are close enough for you to hit the car with any force then you should probably be on the brakes and trying to get out of dodge. Even hitting the car is enough to shake you off your course to some degree.

    That being said, in the situations where it has happened, it's usually a reaction out of instinct and shock more than anything. Which is hard to control. I still vote hornit or similar as the safest alert mechanism. You keep your hands on the bars and can even brake while using it.


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    #48
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,954 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Greybottle wrote: »
    Anybody who uses this is at the level of a holigan or thug IMO. I'm saying this as a committed cyclist.

    120db and up can cause injury, 130db+ causes damage.....
    Has the rich irony in your post gone over your own head?
    tomasrojo wrote: »
    ....If you're trapped beside them and they're pulling in on top of you, shout, hit the car, do whatever it takes to wake the dozy fool up. But, really, touching cars in any way is a last resort for me, as I've had drivers get homicidally angry twice.
    On a few occasions where I've been suddenly squeezed in, I've used my bike to make contact with the other vehicle. It's much more effective because the encroaching driver has in effect collided with a cyclist in the cycle track. It tends to soften their cough when that is pointed out to them.


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    #49
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    ted1 wrote: »
    you don’t have to be using it for it to be illegal. Just holding it by hand or “supporting or cradling it with another part of the body “

    Are you sure? Because I see people holding the phone in front of their face but using the speaker phone function all the time, rather than holding it up to their ear. Surely this must be legal? Like you have to be on a call and the phone be closer than 60mm to your ear for it to be illegal.


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    #50
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,954 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Effects wrote: »
    Are you sure? Because I see people holding the phone in front of their face but using the speaker phone function all the time, rather than holding it up to their ear. Surely this must be legal?....
    Totally illegal. You don't even have to be on a call for it to be illegal.


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    #51
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,266 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Effects wrote: »
    Are you sure? Because I see people holding the phone in front of their face but using the speaker phone function all the time, rather than holding it up to their ear. Surely this must be legal? Like you have to be on a call and the phone be closer than 60mm to your ear for it to be illegal.

    I'm certain:

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2006/act/23/section/3/enacted/en/html#sec3

    section 3.
    "3.— (1) A person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place hold a mobile phone."
    ....
    “ hold ”, in relation to a mobile phone, means holding the phone by hand or supporting or cradling it with another part of the body;


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    #52
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭Fian


    JazzyJ wrote: »
    Unfortunately, they're illegal!

    dead letter law though. It is equally illegal, under the same statutory provision, not to have a bell on your bike. Most bikes don't.

    In fact with the airzound or hornet you could make a decent argument that you were entitled ot the defence of necessity on teh basis that a bell does not adequately warnt drivers in modern sound insulated cars. Of course that is basically irrelevant since nobody is realisticly going to be prosecuted for having a warning device other than a bell on the bike. The law is of some antiquity.


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    #53
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭Fian


    Greybottle wrote: »
    Anybody who uses this is at the level of a holigan or thug IMO. I'm saying this as a committed cyclist.

    120db and up can cause injury, 130db+ causes damage.

    Why the utter fcuk some cyclists seem to believe they are above the law and use these things I don't know. Using those things causes animosity in a wider circle of people, be it road users, pedestrians or residents of an area and just enforces the "Cyclists are tossers" mentality that a lot of us are trying to combat.

    Car horns are limited to 110db in the EU, though some older models are at 115db. Try to respect the rules of the road instead of going out antagonising people.

    OP: Correct procedure is to try to avoid the accident, so hitting the brakes is a first step, even though you are in the right.
    Second step would be to tap on their window and ask them to take more care. I admit this is difficult when the adrenaline is up, but it's the only correct procedure (and I've been guilty of not adhering to it myself on more than one occasion).

    My airzound sounds similar to a car horn, but it is definitely not quite as loud. which is not surprising since it is just a soft drinks bottle pumped up to 80 psi and released through the horn. It has been a valuable safety feature in dublin traffic. Not something to use to express irritation or when right behind a pedestrian though. TBH this is going to cause far less irritation than a car beeping at traffic, is unlikely to be used other than in an emergency and in fact cannot be used persistently since the air would run out if you blew it continuously for a few seconds.

    I have a touch of hay fever and let out a sneeze earlier this week which was definitely louder than the airzound. I did startle a cyclist in front of me with that sneeze, for which i apolgised.


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    #54
    bmc58
    Registered Users Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭bmc58


    comanche_cor wrote: »
    So yesterday on my commute home I had a driver veer into a dedicated cycle lane (solid white line) as I was on their inside. I tapped the rear panel of their car gently with my knuckles as I slowed down and they moved back out of the lane.

    As I passed I got a beep of the horn and when stopped at the traffic lights we were approaching the driver got out of the car to confront me and ask me "what the hell I was doing" and to tell me that "there better on be any scratches on his car"

    Seems like my actions lit this driver up like a roman candle! https://b-static.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/eek.png

    So when I got home I started to thing about this a bit more. Although my actions kept me safe (and prevented the driver from having a bigger scrape and a large insurance claim) perhaps I could have handled the situation better. I don't think my actions did me any favours apart from creating another pissed off driver.

    So how could I have handled this situation better, just slammed on the brakes and done nothing? How do others alter drivers of their presence!?

    (btw when out of the car the driver had the phone in their hand - so I think we all know what was going on, unfortunately I wasn't quick enough to point that out)
    Why did you not just slow down and let this idiot off.Why did you need to "tap" his car.This is only looking for trouble.As for the phone you are only assuming he was on it at the time he came into your lane.Sometimes it's just best to let things go to avoid confrontation.Confrontation can be dangerous nowdays in todays violent society.


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    #55
    Taxuser1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭Taxuser1


    bmc58 wrote: »
    Why did you not just slow down and let this idiot off.Why did you need to "tap" his car.This is only looking for trouble.As for the phone you are only assuming he was on it at the time he came into your lane.Sometimes it's just best to let things go to avoid confrontation.Confrontation can be dangerous nowdays in todays violent society.

    because sometimes other people are just wrong and need to be held to account.

    Sometimes you need to stand up for what you think is right and defend your rights and not be afraid of the consequences.


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    #56
    Borderfox
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭Borderfox


    The one where I knocked on the window was coming up behind and on top of me, no way to slow down. If someone wants to leave the safety of their car and come over and start threatening me they better have the courage of their convictions


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    #57
    bmc58
    Registered Users Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭bmc58


    Taxuser1 wrote: »
    because sometimes other people are just wrong and need to be held to account.

    Sometimes you need to stand up for what you think is right and defend your rights and not be afraid of the consequences.

    Sorry my friend I do not agree.Sometimes you just have to let stupid idiotic things go that people do.As a CAR driver for nearly 40 years(no convictions,pen points) if I was to jump out of the car and stand up for my rights when someone does something stupid on the road,I would hardly never be in my car.A small beep of the horn is enough as drivers know when they have overstepped the mark.If you go around with the attitude of standing up for your rights all the time you will end up with a very high blood pressure reading.


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    #58
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,387 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    average_runner wrote: »
    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Amazing how Invisible someone on a bicycle can be to a driver, even in the best of Hi-Vis, yet everyone on a bicycle who may proceed past a red light is visible to every single motorist out there!! :eek:


    That's because there is a blind spot on cars
    The blind spot on the car is the driver's issue to manage. You don't get to outsource the danger arising from your dodgy equipment on the rest of the population.


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    #59
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    The blind spot on the car is the driver's issue to manage. You don't get to outsource the danger arising from your dodgy equipment on the rest of the population.

    You can put that on your tombstone !


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    #60
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,330 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    bmc58 wrote: »
    Sorry my friend I do not agree.Sometimes you just have to let stupid idiotic things go that people do.As a CAR driver for nearly 40 years(no convictions,pen points) if I was to jump out of the car and stand up for my rights when someone does something stupid on the road,I would hardly never be in my car.A small beep of the horn is enough as drivers know when they have overstepped the mark.If you go around with the attitude of standing up for your rights all the time you will end up with a very high blood pressure reading.
    you should try cycling. telling us your experience as a car driver does little to help cyclists when they find themselves in similar situations. especially when your line of defence - the car horn - is not available to us.
    (speaking as a car driver with 24 years experience, no convictions or penalty points).


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    #61
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,954 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    bmc58 wrote: »
    .....As a CAR driver for nearly 40 years(no convictions,pen points) if I was to jump out of the car and stand up for my rights when someone does something stupid on the road,I would hardly never be in my car.A small beep of the horn is enough.....
    There's a huge difference between being the victim of a 'small' transgression when driving a car compared to cycling. When I'm driving, I let almost everything go (much to the annoyance of my wife) as it's highly unlikely to cause me any injury. Totally different on the bike though.


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