Free Travel Pass Holders on peak time public transport

Emme · 19-11-2018 8:36pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

What makes you think for one single second that I am not ?

Actually I don't care if you are or you are not. If you want to be thankful for your health that's up to you.

iamwhoiam · 19-11-2018 8:44pm

Emme wrote: »

Actually I don't care if you are or you are not. If you want to be thankful for your health that's up to you.

Actually it was you who told me I should be thankful ? Seems you cared enough to post that
Can I ask you why you are so abrasive towards me ? I am well thank you and use my travel pass to travel when I wish to . Is this such a thorn in your side that you seem to resent that fact ?
Try and relax a little and pick your battles wisely . Being angry at me is not going to change your lot .

Emme · 19-11-2018 9:46pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Actually it was you who told me I should be thankful ? Seems you cared enough to post that
Can I ask you why you are so abrasive towards me ? I am well thank you and use my travel pass to travel when I wish to . Is this such a thorn in your side that you seem to resent that fact ?
Try and relax a little and pick your battles wisely . Being angry at me is not going to change your lot .

I am not angry at any one personally. I have an extremely busy home life with a lot of stuff going on and a pressurised job like many others and I don't think it is too much to ask of the rail system that I get a seat in the train when I pay thousands per year to travel by train.

I only replied to your comments on my article which came across to me as being on the offensive towards me personally.

I have no wish to pick a battle with you or anyone else personally and I never referred to any individuals in my original post, just people who use free travel passes at a time when the trains are likely to be most crowded when they don't need to use them. Some of the people who need to use FTPs at all times would be:

The disabled
The ill (not necessarily obvious to everyone)
Parents with sick children if they have FTPs
Those with hospital/medical appointments
Those accompanying the ill or disabled who are unable to get around themselves

Again I was not referring to you or anyone else personally or individually. So many people have attacked me on this thread (as I predicted would happen) I couldn't keep track of any one person anyway.

Example from the animal kingdom. When you pack battery hens into cages one will eventually go insane and start attacking the others who join in attacking the hen who started the fight. Am I insane? Maybe. The veneer of civilisation is surprisingly thin in people and none of us can say we are any more civilised than the others.

Cram enough people into public transport and one will eventually snap. If it's people venting on boards that's a mild form of snapping. If it's people verbally abusing other train passengers face to face (there are plenty of YouTube videos of this) it is a more serious situation.

Like battery hens those at fault are not the hens in the cages with us but those who metaphorically put us into the cages and pack us in tighter.

Why would anyone want to get into a packed cage when they don't have to?

I only eat free range eggs by the way.

AndrewJRenko · 19-11-2018 10:11pm

Sir Oxman wrote: »

As pointed out previoulsy, maybe pay during peak hours?

So on top of the existing substantial extra costs of living with a disability of up to €10k a year, you now want those people to pay more to travel to/from work, just to make other commuters feel a bit better?

https://www.rte.ie/eile/brainstorm/2017/1129/923751-the-hidden-cost-of-disability/

On the broader issue, one advantage of the new digital cards is that at least the travel companies should be able to track usage, and should have some decent data about how often/frequently those who use the pass are travelling.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 19-11-2018 10:51pm

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

They had their FTP out. They paid zilch.

And you misread the point - packed train with workers wanting to get home, max 5 people on seats for 8 and refusing to move their crap so at least 3 people could get a seat.

No way is that okay.

When I started commuting I’d never say anything to people taking up more than one seat. By the end I enjoyed it. When you’re traveling every morning you get to see the signs, the person who pretends to be asleep as the train is rolling into the next station, the old lady who’ll have her wheelie trolley in the seat beside her, the person with the suitcase on the seat, the person who’ll lay across two seats to sleep. I remember being on a packed train on the way to work one morning and there was only one free seat, so many people asked if it was free and the old lady replied no it wasn’t, her friend was in the toilet. There was lots of people standing in between carriages. As we approached the next station, the lady had gone back to reading her book and no sign of her friend. I approached the seat and kindly asked her to move her trolley. She said the seat was taken and her friend was in the toilet. I explained I would move when her friend came back from the toilet. Nobody came the entire hour we were on the train, there was no friend. Another morning I asked a girl to move her feet off the second seat and she asked me to find somewhere else to sit. I apologized to her for not realizing she’s paid for two seats and told her to move her feet again. I sat next to her and basked in the awkwardness the entire hour.

I would always offer my seat to an elderly person, but I do agree there should be a discounted charge on peak train times.

PlaneSpeeking · 20-11-2018 11:02am

Viviana Careful Wildfire wrote: »

When I started commuting I’d never say anything to people taking up more than one seat. By the end I enjoyed it. When you’re traveling every morning you get to see the signs, the person who pretends to be asleep as the train is rolling into the next station, the old lady who’ll have her wheelie trolley in the seat beside her, the person with the suitcase on the seat, the person who’ll lay across two seats to sleep. I remember being on a packed train on the way to work one morning and there was only one free seat, so many people asked if it was free and the old lady replied no it wasn’t, her friend was in the toilet. There was lots of people standing in between carriages. As we approached the next station, the lady had gone back to reading her book and no sign of her friend. I approached the seat and kindly asked her to move her trolley. She said the seat was taken and her friend was in the toilet. I explained I would move when her friend came back from the toilet. Nobody came the entire hour we were on the train, there was no friend. Another morning I asked a girl to move her feet off the second seat and she asked me to find somewhere else to sit. I apologized to her for not realizing she’s paid for two seats and told her to move her feet again. I sat next to her and basked in the awkwardness the entire hour.

I would always offer my seat to an elderly person, but I do agree there should be a discounted charge on peak train times.

As House says "Everybody Lies"!!!! Mind you I've pretended to be pregnant once to get a seat, well not lie per se but someone stood up for me and said "the wife is having our third"and I didn't disagree!!!

Graces7 · 20-11-2018 1:35pm

troyzer wrote: »

Yeah, wouldn't want to be an uppity youngster. How dare I have a go at older people with their €500k houses they bought for €40k whilst forcing us to pay €1.5k a month for a shed an hour and a half away from work which pays us less than it pays you simply for being younger.

And while you're retired and enjoying your state pension and free travel pass, it's left to us to pay the €200bn national debt you racked up.

Cheers for that.

Show some humility, older people in Ireland are absolutely blessed with all of the advantages they have over younger people. More money, more public services, more freebies and they struggled far less with the basics than we are now. That's just a fact.

The pass is currently availably for free all day long, but it shouldn't be. That's the whole point.

Why not? The whole point is your woeful attitude..

And by the way none of your accusations apply to me or my life. none.
And I do not know any in the bitter categorisation you are indulging in. Many have to choose between heating and eating.

You have no idea what the world is like for older folk.

I keep thinking of that lovely group of older women the OP mentioned, off to enjoy a day together... wonderful..

PlaneSpeeking · 20-11-2018 1:38pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Why not? The whole point is your woeful attitude..

And by the way none of your accusations apply to me or my life. none.
And I do not know any in the bitter categorisation you are indulging in. Many have to choose between heating and eating.

You have no idea what the world is like for older folk.

I keep thinking of that lovely group of older women the OP mentioned, off to enjoy a day together... wonderful..

I've reported that as it is the definition of uncivil talk.

I do agree with you that for the elderly the pass should be free (but off peak only) but I'd be reluctant to engage if insults are to be thrown out there.

Graces7 · 20-11-2018 1:38pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

Even the phrase 'Free Travel' is erroneous.

Someone always has to pick up the tab. As per usual it's the people who pick up the tab for everything else like free water, free education and forever-homes.

:eek:

Lyle Lanley · 20-11-2018 1:42pm

Motorbikes are the solution to so many commuter's woes. Leave public transport to the disabled/elderly.

Graces7 · 20-11-2018 1:48pm

Emme wrote: »

Nobody is bashing the disabled but I consider the use of the FTP at peak time for unnecesssary travel to be excessive. This partly the fault of transport bodies but not all countries permit the use of FTPs at all times.

In an ideal world there would be room for FTP holders and regular commuters to travel comfortably whenever they wanted. Comfortably means getting a seat. I think people going to medical appointments should travel free there and back at any time. Also the disabled and incapacitated. And those on limited incomes.

Those who are fit and healthy, can afford it and are going on a "day out" might consider paying half price to travel at peak time. Surely this would not be unreasonable?

You are actually blaming FTP holders for your condition, for your suffering, for your utterly extreme views.

How would your last para solve anything?

Graces7 · 20-11-2018 1:50pm

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I've reported that as it is the definition of uncivil talk.

I do agree with you that for the elderly the pass should be free (but off peak only) but I'd be reluctant to engage if insults are to be thrown out there.

It was not intended as an insult. That you took it as such shows much.

Graces7 · 20-11-2018 2:09pm

Emme wrote: »

I am not angry at any one personally. I have an extremely busy home life with a lot of stuff going on and a pressurised job like many others and I don't think it is too much to ask of the rail system that I get a seat in the train when I pay thousands per year to travel by train.

I only replied to your comments on my article which came across to me as being on the offensive towards me personally.

I have no wish to pick a battle with you or anyone else personally and I never referred to any individuals in my original post, just people who use free travel passes at a time when the trains are likely to be most crowded when they don't need to use them. Some of the people who need to use FTPs at all times would be:

The disabled
The ill (not necessarily obvious to everyone)
Parents with sick children if they have FTPs
Those with hospital/medical appointments
Those accompanying the ill or disabled who are unable to get around themselves

Again I was not referring to you or anyone else personally or individually. So many people have attacked me on this thread (as I predicted would happen) I couldn't keep track of any one person anyway.

Example from the animal kingdom. When you pack battery hens into cages one will eventually go insane and start attacking the others who join in attacking the hen who started the fight. Am I insane? Maybe. The veneer of civilisation is surprisingly thin in people and none of us can say we are any more civilised than the others.

Cram enough people into public transport and one will eventually snap. If it's people venting on boards that's a mild form of snapping. If it's people verbally abusing other train passengers face to face (there are plenty of YouTube videos of this) it is a more serious situation.

Like battery hens those at fault are not the hens in the cages with us but those who metaphorically put us into the cages and pack us in tighter.

Why would anyone want to get into a packed cage when they don't have to?

I only eat free range eggs by the way.

Glad you feel calmer for having vented so copiously....

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 20-11-2018 2:13pm

I commuted for years, paid approx 5k a year for the use of the train and maybe 1,100 a year on my leap card for Luas and bus. To be completely honest, it was rare enough that you wouldn’t get a seat, unless I was on the later of the early trains.

Realistically i think, off peak times would be best, for everyone involved with the exception of essential travel (hospital travel etc) but leisure during off peak should be subsidized, maybe 50% off the actual cost of the journey.

However, a lot of older people might have no family around they may be widowed, lonely and struggle to find purpose to get up in the mornings. That makes me feel sad, and if getting an early train to the big smoke to do things with a group of people in similar circumstances to them shortens their day, or gives them a chance to socialize and interact, then feck it I say.

Funnily enough, a lot of the males of that generation would often offer a seat to a younger woman. Which is adorable but they’ve done their time standing, they should take their seat and enjoy it.

What used to make me very uneasy on busy trains would be the amount of kids (under 4s are free) and able bodied people ignoring and totally oblivious to a lot of elderly people standing the 1hr plus to Dublin. Surely the child can sit on an adults knee, or two small kids share a seat? But nope. It wouldn’t even cross their minds.

Similarly, I was in a restaurant recently with a friend and we were seated near to the gents bathroom. This old man came along with two crutches clearly struggling, and the people shoveling food into their gaping cakeholes nearest the door had a good long stare at him before going back to their food making no attempt to get the door. Obviously I got up and tried get to the door before him to open it, and again watched for his shadow through the glass so as I could open it for him to come back out. But nobody cared. Nobody helped him. Nobody was interested.

So yeah maybe realistically it makes sense to take the off peak off the elderly and if we actually treated older people better I might not feel so bad about doing it but it doesn’t seem right to me when so many older people are lonely without family and isolated

PlaneSpeeking · 20-11-2018 2:29pm

Viviana Careful Wildfire wrote: »

I commuted for years, paid approx 5k a year for the use of the train and maybe 1,100 a year on my leap card for Luas and bus. To be completely honest, it was rare enough that you wouldn’t get a seat, unless I was on the later of the early trains.

Realistically i think, off peak times would be best, for everyone involved with the exception of essential travel (hospital travel etc) but leisure during off peak should be subsidized, maybe 50% off the actual cost of the journey.

However, a lot of older people might have no family around they may be widowed, lonely and struggle to find purpose to get up in the mornings. That makes me feel sad, and if getting an early train to the big smoke to do things with a group of people in similar circumstances to them shortens their day, or gives them a chance to socialize and interact, then feck it I say.

Funnily enough, a lot of the males of that generation would often offer a seat to a younger woman. Which is adorable but they’ve done their time standing, they should take their seat and enjoy it.

What used to make me very uneasy on busy trains would be the amount of kids (under 4s are free) and able bodied people ignoring and totally oblivious to a lot of elderly people standing the 1hr plus to Dublin. Surely the child can sit on an adults knee, or two small kids share a seat? But nope. It wouldn’t even cross their minds.

Similarly, I was in a restaurant recently with a friend and we were seated near to the gents bathroom. This old man came along with two crutches clearly struggling, and the people shoveling food into their gaping cakeholes nearest the door had a good long stare at him before going back to their food making no attempt to get the door. Obviously I got up and tried get to the door before him to open it, and again watched for his shadow through the glass so as I could open it for him to come back out. But nobody cared. Nobody helped him. Nobody was interested.

So yeah maybe realistically it makes sense to take the off peak off the elderly and if we actually treated older people better I might not feel so bad about doing it but it doesn’t seem right to me when so many older people are lonely without family and isolated

Lovely post. I was offered a seat by an elderly chap on the LUAS just on Monday and I declined, he actually said "a gentleman always stands for a lady".

Lovely decent old chap.

PlaneSpeeking · 20-11-2018 2:30pm

Graces7 wrote: »

It was not intended as an insult. That you took it as such shows much.

Like I said, reported so not going to get into it but how can "woeful attitude" be meant any other way ? Like a compliment ??

Graces7 · 20-11-2018 3:21pm

Emme wrote: »

I am not angry at any one personally. I have an extremely busy home life with a lot of stuff going on and a pressurised job like many others

Example from the animal kingdom. When you pack battery hens into cages one will eventually go insane and start attacking the others who join in attacking the hen who started the fight. Am I insane? Maybe. The veneer of civilisation is surprisingly thin in people and none of us can say we are any more civilised than the others.

Cram enough people into public transport and one will eventually snap. If it's people venting on boards that's a mild form of snapping. If it's people verbally abusing other train passengers face to face (there are plenty of YouTube videos of this) it is a more serious situation.

Like battery hens those at fault are not the hens in the cages with us but those who metaphorically put us into the cages and pack us in tighter.

Why would anyone want to get into a packed cage when they don't have to?

I only eat free range eggs by the way.

Seriously and quietly wondering after reading this thread if your medical advisers know how stressed you are? They need to. And maybe some form of counselling would help with the stress. This kind of stress is typical with M.E but it can be alleviated without what you call "snapping" . The way you see the world around you is worrying.

Over and out from me on this.

Shanotheslayer · 20-11-2018 5:21pm

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Lovely post. I was offered a seat by an elderly chap on the LUAS just on Monday and I declined, he actually said "a gentleman always stands for a lady".

Lovely decent old chap.

Out of curiosity are you pregnant? I wouldn't offer my seat to a non-pregnant woman. I don't see why anybody would to be honest.

That doesn't make me not a gentleman it just makes me fair. I wouldn't do it for a man either.

Knowing my luck I'd offer my seat to a woman and get my ear ripped off about being sexist

ohnonotgmail · 20-11-2018 5:27pm

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Out of curiosity are you pregnant? I wouldn't offer my seat to a non-pregnant woman. I don't see why anybody would to be honest.

That doesn't make me not a gentleman it just makes me fair. I wouldn't do it for a man either.

Knowing my luck I'd offer my seat to a woman and get my ear ripped off about being sexist

Well that is another minefield. Unless the lady is blindingly obviously pregnant i say nothing.

witchgirl26 · 20-11-2018 5:55pm

Out of curiosity are you pregnant? I wouldn't offer my seat to a non-pregnant woman. I don't see why anybody would to be honest. [/QUOTE]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Well that is another minefield. Unless the lady is blindingly obviously pregnant i say nothing.

Pregnant women get given a little badge from TFI at their first hospital app which says "Baby on Board". Takes the guessing out of it for people (thus avoiding minefields!). Think it's a good idea.

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Knowing my luck I'd offer my seat to a woman and get my ear ripped off about being sexist

Know off-topic slightly but this annoys me. I remember my dad holding a door open for a woman before as she was coming into a shop behind him (he would have done the same for a man too - just polite) and getting yelled at for being sexist and she could hold the door herself. Manners cost nothing. If someone offered me a seat, I'd say "Thanks, that's really nice but I'm ok really". Well most of the time - as someone with the above badge, it could depend on how I'm doing that day!

Hotblack Desiato · 20-11-2018 6:07pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Nope!, You take those manufacturing jobs and some IT jobs and a few of those big Pharma jobs in North Dublin and take them out the country and they ease housing for people who really need to work in Dublin.

Have you considered offering your consulting services to the government of North Korea, or Myanmar?

Companies will set up where they want to set up. The government here tried forced decentralisation of some of its own employees, naturally it was an expensive disaster. Imagine if they told a private industry to relocate, they'd be told to f**k off and no mistake.

If you're not happy about the life being sucked out of rural towns and villages, look no further than the people in these areas who refuse to live in the towns and villages but build one-off houses instead.

dont bother · 20-11-2018 6:10pm

why has nobody gotten to the real issue here:
Scum and junkies who use their FTP to run up and down on the luas to sort out their drugs, their free houses and their drink. every single morning the luas is packed with loud, p!ssed up junkies out of their heads taking up whole rows of seats with their feet up and then meeting bigger gangs of their pals on board.

it's these people who need to be told to F off, not the workers.
it's scum, junkies and the down and outs the "gimme gimme gimmes'" of this country that need to be given NOTHING.

why should these human errors be given anything? they are junkies, they should be given the dole and told "do not spend this on drugs" - if they do, then they have no money left. tough.

fvck them if they have appointments. they shouldnt be spending all their dole on drugs and drink and then abusing the system for everything else.

the real root of the issue though is the Margaret Cash ilk - if they want free houses, then they should get them outside of dublin, especially the city or close to it. they should NOT be listened to "oh my child is in dat skewel" or "me ma lives derrr" TOUGH SH!T!!!!

they should all be booted out of dublin, replaced with workers and tough sh!te and good riddance.
they do not contribute, so WHY OH WHY do they get all the perks!? !

AndrewJRenko · 20-11-2018 10:40pm

dont bother wrote: »

why has nobody gotten to the real issue here:
Scum and junkies who use their FTP to run up and down on the luas to sort out their drugs, their free houses and their drink. every single morning the luas is packed with loud, p!ssed up junkies out of their heads taking up whole rows of seats with their feet up and then meeting bigger gangs of their pals on board.

it's these people who need to be told to F off, not the workers.
it's scum, junkies and the down and outs the "gimme gimme gimmes'" of this country that need to be given NOTHING.

why should these human errors be given anything? they are junkies, they should be given the dole and told "do not spend this on drugs" - if they do, then they have no money left. tough.

fvck them if they have appointments. they shouldnt be spending all their dole on drugs and drink and then abusing the system for everything else.

the real root of the issue though is the Margaret Cash ilk - if they want free houses, then they should get them outside of dublin, especially the city or close to it. they should NOT be listened to "oh my child is in dat skewel" or "me ma lives derrr" TOUGH SH!T!!!!

they should all be booted out of dublin, replaced with workers and tough sh!te and good riddance.
they do not contribute, so WHY OH WHY do they get all the perks!? !

You OK, hun?

20-11-2018 10:42pm

dont bother wrote: »

why has nobody gotten to the real issue here:
Scum and junkies who use their FTP to run up and down on the luas to sort out their drugs, their free houses and their drink. every single morning the luas is packed with loud, p!ssed up junkies out of their heads taking up whole rows of seats with their feet up and then meeting bigger gangs of their pals on board.

it's these people who need to be told to F off, not the workers.
it's scum, junkies and the down and outs the "gimme gimme gimmes'" of this country that need to be given NOTHING.

why should these human errors be given anything? they are junkies, they should be given the dole and told "do not spend this on drugs" - if they do, then they have no money left. tough.

fvck them if they have appointments. they shouldnt be spending all their dole on drugs and drink and then abusing the system for everything else.

the real root of the issue though is the Margaret Cash ilk - if they want free houses, then they should get them outside of dublin, especially the city or close to it. they should NOT be listened to "oh my child is in dat skewel" or "me ma lives derrr" TOUGH SH!T!!!!

they should all be booted out of dublin, replaced with workers and tough sh!te and good riddance.
they do not contribute, so WHY OH WHY do they get all the perks!? !

You are 110 percent right.

However, im sure there will be a few bleeding heart lefties along in a second to tell you off.

I agree, sick of carrying freeloaders on my back.

And by the way, I have no issue with the sick, elderly, disabled. Its people who cant be bothered to get off their ass and put in a days work that im talking about.

Used to live in the U.S and the ciry I was in proposed giving free travel to seniors. Outcry from the public, pointing out that seniors typically have more disposable income that struggling young familes and can afford to pay their own fare.

City council wound in their horns and didnt give the seniors their free travel. Couldnt imagine that happening here with the grey army or whatever theyre called.

prinzeugen · 20-11-2018 11:13pm

Sure there are some people that should not have a FTP but banning them from public transport during certain hours?

When that does not work what next? Ban people that earn less than €24,000 pa?

How many people will need to be banned from PT before the OP is happy?

Everyone has the same rights on PT regardless of how you pay.

Having a season ticket does not make you "special ".

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 20-11-2018 11:45pm

I’m a free travel pass holder. I’m in my 30s. I’d genuinely love to be paying those taxes you complain about, OP, because paying those taxes would mean I was out mingling with, and contributing to society instead of being horribly ill like I am. I rarely take rush hour transport but if I need to get to a hospital appointment, I won’t feel guilty about having to travel at peak time if necessary. Believe me, you wouldn’t switch places with me.

Emme wrote: »

I am not talking about the ill or disabled. I am talking about fit able people who are milking the FTP for all it's worth and travelling at peak time when it is not necessary. Commuters have no choice.

Oh, and you wouldn’t know to look at me that I’m seriously ill. Unless you carry a CT and MRI scanner under each oxter, how can you tell what the health status of a perfect stranger is?

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I have free travel and so does my husband .I dont think it that simple really as many pensioners use it at peak times for a reason ,they might have hospital appointments etc to get to .I know so many who will avoid peak times simply because its too full and wait till 10am or so to travel .I really doubt the transport is full of people free travel at peak times as they would prefer to avoid the crowds

Absolutely. Well I know I avoid rush hour public transport whenever possible. Even when in full health and working, I’d avoid it whenever I could. OP, rush hour public transport sucks pretty much everywhere. That’s why things like flexitime have become so popular. Focusing your ire on FTP holders is just trying to find a scapegoat. I doubt they make much of a dent in the rush hour public transport crowds because, as iamwhoiam says, who in their right mind would travel at peak times if it wasn’t absolutely necessary?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 20-11-2018 11:57pm

RobbingBandit wrote: »

I am autistic up until about 6 months ago to look at me using my free travel you wouldn't think there was anything much up as most people did and still do even now when I am wearing a giant boot on my left foot due to medical complications about 90% of the time I struggle to get seats on public transport going to and from appointments or going about my daily activities I have no job and limited opportunities or options which will now be even more limited due to my ever growing issues with my leg and foot perhaps someone suffering from issues such as mine were the ones profiled today.

Count yourself lucky you have the means and abilities to provide for yourself instead of looking down on those less fortunate than you who need a little help.

+1

Best of luck to you. x

DanMurphy wrote: »

I'm 68 and I worked full time since I was 14 until recently.
I got the free travel nearly three years ago but didn't use it till recently to travel to Dublin from the midlands.
I look perfectly fit, and I dress well. I have no 'visible' disabilities. And I probably look 'well off,' but I exist on a pension.
If it weren't for this Cancer I have, one would never know 'from the outside' I was sick.
I travel for treatment to St. Luke's as an out-patient, on public transport, and using the 'free' travel, for which I paid for many times over during my working life.
I'm not surprised at the ill-concealed begrudgery of the OP and others.
I'll bet my pension is begrudged me too.

I'd swap both for my good health back again.

Me too, Dan. I take little pleasure in my free pass because it’s a symbol of being really ill. It’s one of the few bonuses in my life too. I really struggle sometimes to hold my temper at people displaying pettiness like the OP. I wish my problems were so small.

Best of luck with your treatment.

nice_guy80 · 21-11-2018 12:26am

You should be able to prebook your seat if you have paid for a full price commuter ticket

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 21-11-2018 12:38am

prinzeugen wrote: »

Sure there are some people that should not have a FTP but banning them from public transport during certain hours?

When that does not work what next? Ban people that earn less than €24,000 pa?

How many people will need to be banned from PT before the OP is happy?

Everyone has the same rights on PT regardless of how you pay.

Having a season ticket does not make you "special ".

My thoughts too. Excluding free pass holders apart from those who really need to travel at that time wouldn’t solve the overcrowding like OP thinks it would. I think it would make barely a dent. So who would OP scapegoat then?

erica74 · 21-11-2018 8:23am

nice_guy80 wrote: »

You should be able to prebook your seat if you have paid for a full price commuter ticket

You should but, unfortunately, even if you prebook your seat, if you get on the train and someone is in your seat, you've to start off your journey with an argument, the other person may or may not move and my understanding is that Irish Rail staff can't actually force them to move, most people will move when confronted by someone official but those who won't move can't be forced to, and that's if you can even find a member of staff nearby before the train takes off.

When I was commuting from Waterford to Dublin daily, on this particular occasion, I was using a regular day trip ticket which I had bought online so I had prebooked my seat.
The train was at 6:35, I got on the train at 6:10 and, even though the carriage was 3/4 empty, there was a guy sitting in my seat and my name was displayed above it. I explained it was my seat and he got annoyed but moved and said "it's very late for this, another 5 minutes and it would be a different story". He then moved to the empty seat across the way with no name displayed above it and had a 20 minute phone conversation with someone discussing how much of a bitch I was.

It's a hassle for people getting on the train in Hueston (or wherever the train is departing from), for people getting on midway through the train journey, they may as well forget about it.

PlaneSpeeking · 21-11-2018 9:50am

erica74 wrote: »

You should but, unfortunately, even if you prebook your seat, if you get on the train and someone is in your seat, you've to start off your journey with an argument, the other person may or may not move and my understanding is that Irish Rail staff can't actually force them to move, most people will move when confronted by someone official but those who won't move can't be forced to, and that's if you can even find a member of staff nearby before the train takes off.

When I was commuting from Waterford to Dublin daily, on this particular occasion, I was using a regular day trip ticket which I had bought online so I had prebooked my seat.
The train was at 6:35, I got on the train at 6:10 and, even though the carriage was 3/4 empty, there was a guy sitting in my seat and my name was displayed above it. I explained it was my seat and he got annoyed but moved and said "it's very late for this, another 5 minutes and it would be a different story". He then moved to the empty seat across the way with no name displayed above it and had a 20 minute phone conversation with someone discussing how much of a bitch I was.

It's a hassle for people getting on the train in Hueston (or wherever the train is departing from), for people getting on midway through the train journey, they may as well forget about it.

And to be honest on my train, more often than not the names are not on - the other night they came on at Kildare, 40 minutes after the journey started.

erica74 · 21-11-2018 9:59am

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

And to be honest on my train, more often than not the names are not on - the other night they came on at Kildare, 40 minutes after the journey started.

Yeah, that's the other issue and happens more often than not.

Zorya · 21-11-2018 10:24am

Meanwhile, I have to take that Waterford train from Dublin on Friday evening. Owing to this thread I have been making suitable preparations all week. Those FTP pensioners better watch out! :mad:

erica74 · 21-11-2018 10:39am

Zorya wrote: »

Meanwhile, I have to take that Waterford train from Dublin on Friday evening. Owing to this thread I have been making suitable preparations all week. Those FTP pensioners better watch out! :mad:

Good luck with that:pac:

Zorya · 21-11-2018 10:45am

erica74 wrote: »

Good luck with that:pac:

It's booked! I'll be the one sitting on some pensioner's knee. :mad:

Rory28 · 21-11-2018 12:44pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m a free travel pass holder. I’m in my 30s. I’d genuinely love to be paying those taxes you complain about, OP, because paying those taxes would mean I was out mingling with, and contributing to society instead of being horribly ill like I am. I rarely take rush hour transport but if I need to get to a hospital appointment, I won’t feel guilty about having to travel at peak time if necessary. Believe me, you wouldn’t switch places with me.

I dont even agree with the OP but how many of you are going to keep at it with this? She clearly said she has no problem with the disabled using it. Multiple times now. Cop on to yourselves.

As for the topic I think if you have a FTP then you should use it whenever you feel like it. I get that commuting is horrible and causes a lot of health issues but they are entitled to use transport anytime they wish. It would be to difficult to police a hospital only type deal.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 21-11-2018 1:08pm

Rory28 wrote: »

I dont even agree with the OP but how many of you are going to keep at it with this? She clearly said she has no problem with the disabled using it. Multiple times now. Cop on to yourselves.

As for the topic I think if you have a FTP then you should use it whenever you feel like it. I get that commuting is horrible and causes a lot of health issues but they are entitled to use transport anytime they wish. It would be to difficult to police a hospital only type deal.

Yes, yes, we know. She gave a bullet point list of FTP holders who should be allowed to travel free at peak times. There was, I think, five bullet points. How many FTP holders will be left over after exhausting that list? I’d wager not enough to make much of a dent in the overcrowding. Then who will OP set her sights on? Who will be the next scapegoat? Lower-income workers who pay less tax perhaps?

And how would it even practically work, ascertaining which FTP holders should be able to travel for free at peak times? How much would need to be spent administering that system?

Oh and she also mentioned FTP card holders that she didn’t think looked sick. Oh Emme, if only it were that easy to spot. Without a phalanx of hospital scanners to carry around with her, she has no idea of anyone’s health status.

Rory28 · 21-11-2018 1:21pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yes, yes, we know. She gave a bullet point list of FTP holders who should be allowed to travel free at peak times. There was, I think, five bullet points. How many FTP holders will be left over after exhausting that list? I’d wager not enough to make much of a dent in the overcrowding. Then who will OP set her sights on? Who will be the next scapegoat? Lower-income workers who pay less tax perhaps?

And how would it even practically work, ascertaining which FTP holders should be able to travel for free at peak times? How much would need to be spent administering that system?

Like I said, I don't agree with the OP.

Emme · 21-11-2018 1:53pm

prinzeugen wrote: »

Sure there are some people that should not have a FTP but banning them from public transport during certain hours?

When that does not work what next? Ban people that earn less than €24,000 pa?

How many people will need to be banned from PT before the OP is happy?

Everyone has the same rights on PT regardless of how you pay.

Having a season ticket does not make you "special ".

Most people who earn less than €24,000 aren't getting paid enough and in my opinion are seriously hard done by.

n!ghtmancometh · 21-11-2018 2:05pm

I use bus and Luas to commute at peak times daily. I see 1 or 2 using a travel pass, usually dropping small kids to school.

The trains, trams and buses aren't jammed because of FTP holders, they're in that state because successive governments were too busy building motorways then investing in public transport. Public transport is always long fingered because it takes commitment and planning, and big projects (which have been needed for over a decade) usually exceed a term of government. So TD's would rather be pictured at the opening of motorways (usually easily constructed during a governments term in power) than risk betting on public transport infrastructure.

You can see it already, TD's afraid for their seat objecting to busconnects taking slices of massive gardens on the Navan Road or metro construction taking over a GAA pitch for a few years during construction. Two vital projects.

Emme · 21-11-2018 2:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You are 110 percent right.

However, im sure there will be a few bleeding heart lefties along in a second to tell you off.

I agree, sick of carrying freeloaders on my back.

And by the way, I have no issue with the sick, elderly, disabled. Its people who cant be bothered to get off their ass and put in a days work that im talking about.

Used to live in the U.S and the ciry I was in proposed giving free travel to seniors. Outcry from the public, pointing out that seniors typically have more disposable income that struggling young familes and can afford to pay their own fare.

City council wound in their horns and didnt give the seniors their free travel. Couldnt imagine that happening here with the grey army or whatever theyre called.

Shush now, you will be ripped apart limb from limb here or called a Trump supporter for expressing sentiments like that

Your role, as a worker, is to pay taxes and try to keep going on the bit of bread and water or Soylent Green you can afford after all your bills have been paid. OK I exaggerate. But in Ireland taxpayers are not supposed to complain in case we upset people.

If the responses i am getting here are anything to go by I am clearly not getting enough fluoride in my tap water to keep me pacified, cowering and silent like other workers so I am off to the doctor to see if he can prescribe some halide-based antidepressants aka Soma to stop me from getting annoyed, sticking my head above the barbed-wire fence and complaining.

xckjoo · 21-11-2018 2:14pm

Emme wrote: »

Shush now, you will be ripped apart limb from limb here or called a Trump supporter for expressing sentiments like that Your role, as a worker, is to pay taxes and try to keep going on the bit of bread and water or Soylent Green you can afford after all your bills have been paid. OK I exaggerate. But in Ireland taxpayers are not supposed to complain in case we upset people.

If the responses i am getting here are anything to go by I am clearly not getting enough fluoride in my tap water to keep me pacified, cowering and silent like other workers so I am off to the doctor to see if he can prescribe some halide-based antidepressants aka Soma to stop me from getting annoyed, sticking my head above the barbed-wire fence and complaining.

Or maybe most people can see that you're anger is misplaced and counterproductive to actually improving things. Just a thought.

PlaneSpeeking · 21-11-2018 2:18pm

xckjoo wrote: »

Or maybe most people can see that you're anger is misplaced and counterproductive to actually improving things. Just a thought.

Or she's 100% correct and to be honest after 11 years of commuting to Dublin city centre from the sticks in the Midlands, I'm going on experience not fluffy feelings that there are people we shouldn't pick on.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 21-11-2018 2:23pm

Emme wrote: »

Shush now, you will be ripped apart limb from limb here or called a Trump supporter for expressing sentiments like that Your role, as a worker, is to pay taxes and try to keep going on the bit of bread and water or Soylent Green you can afford after all your bills have been paid. OK I exaggerate. But in Ireland taxpayers are not supposed to complain in case we upset people.

If the responses i am getting here are anything to go by I am clearly not getting enough fluoride in my tap water to keep me pacified, cowering and silent like other workers so I am off to the doctor to see if he can prescribe some halide-based antidepressants aka Soma to stop me from getting annoyed, sticking my head above the barbed-wire fence and complaining.

Do you know how much these freeloaders are adding to the morning crush? Once your list of “acceptable” FTP holders is exhausted? How do you even ascertain who the freeloaders are? These are serious questions, btw.

I said it earlier in the thread but I’d love to be paying taxes because it would mean I wasn’t ill and could actually have a normal life and contribute to society.

You are beginning to sound a bit unhinged in the bolded bit too. Not to mention downright insulting to people who replied to the thread, many in a thoughtful manner. Nobody is under any obligation to agree with you, Emme and disagreeing with you doesn’t make a person brainwashed. That’s actually a pretty arrogant position to take: “I’m right but the brainwashed masses just don’t see it”.

Emme · 21-11-2018 2:29pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Oh and she also mentioned FTP card holders that she didn’t think looked sick. Oh Emme, if only it were that easy to spot. Without a phalanx of hospital scanners to carry around with her, she has no idea of anyone’s health status.

I didn't mention FTP card holders who didn't look sick. I did (cue rain of angry posts) mention pensioners who looked to be in better health than many workers. That doesn't say they aren't but if they're carrying rucksacks and hiking poles one would hope they are fit and healthy.

Perhaps if I myself were in better health overcrowding on trains wouldn't get to me so much. I was attacked by somebody else for mentioning that I have worked when not in full health but if everyone took that attitude nobody would be working in this country. I appreciate that not everyone can pick themselves up, dust themselves off and keep going. I was lucky enough (after exhaustive research) to find a doctor and specialist who could help me back on my feet again. I don't feel 100% well every day but then again who does.

What am I supposed to do? Say everyone, their entire extended family and any pets they all might have has a right to a free travel pass no matter what and a right to travel whenever they want on it whenever they like?

xckjoo · 21-11-2018 2:32pm

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Or she's 100% correct and to be honest after 11 years of commuting to Dublin city centre from the sticks in the Midlands, I'm going on experience not fluffy feelings that there are people we shouldn't pick on.

Ya. The elderly and disabled with the "school of life" justification for it. Fighting the good fight.

dont bother · 21-11-2018 2:33pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Do you know how much these freeloaders are adding to the morning crush? Once your list of “acceptable” FTP holders is exhausted? How do you even ascertain who the freeloaders are? These are serious questions, btw.

I said it earlier in the thread but I’d love to be paying taxes because it would mean I wasn’t ill and could actually have a normal life and contribute to society.

You are beginning to sound a bit unhinged in the bolded bit too. Not to mention downright insulting to people who replied to the thread, many in a thoughtful manner. Nobody is under any obligation to agree with you, Emme and disagreeing with you doesn’t make a person brainwashed. That’s actually a pretty arrogant position to take: “I’m right but the brainwashed masses just don’t see it”.

the FTP is only the tip of the iceberg though.
why do the biggest scum of our country get everything handed to them for free? why?

the root issue here is that Emme has to commute that huge distance because the same scum who get FTP's are also given prime location housing for free. they are taking up huge swathes of Dublin City and because of this, the workers must commute. the workers also have to pay for the commute, as well as tax, bills, and every other thing that these feral filthbags are getting for free.

the only people who deserve these freebies are the elderly and the sick/disabled.

scum who just dont want to work, and then take up all these prime city locations with their social housing are the problem which then leads to the other ancillary problems, such as the FTP.

they shouldnt be even given a chance to give a reason as to why they "want" or "need" to stay in a particular area. hoosh them all out to Meath and be done with it. sell the houses to workers and then we might be some-way to a decent society that would work a little bit better than it does now.

Emme · 21-11-2018 2:34pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Do you know how much these freeloaders are adding to the morning crush? Once your list of “acceptable” FTP holders is exhausted? How do you even ascertain who the freeloaders are? These are serious questions, btw.

I said it earlier in the thread but I’d love to be paying taxes because it would mean I wasn’t ill and could actually have a normal life and contribute to society.

You are beginning to sound a bit unhinged in the bolded bit too. Not to mention downright insulting to people who replied to the thread, many in a thoughtful manner. Nobody is under any obligation to agree with you, Emme and disagreeing with you doesn’t make a person brainwashed. That’s actually a pretty arrogant position to take: “I’m right but the brainwashed masses just don’t see it”.

I am sorry that you and anyone else who might see this would love to be well enough to work and pay taxes. I hope you can find a way to recover and if you do it would be wise to find a job that doesn't have a long commute. Commuting has destroyed my health even though I can still work.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 21-11-2018 2:38pm

Emme wrote: »

I didn't mention FTP card holders who didn't look sick. I did (cue rain of angry posts) mention pensioners who looked to be in better health than many workers. That doesn't say they aren't but if they're carrying rucksacks and hiking poles one would hope they are fit and healthy.

Perhaps if I myself were in better health overcrowding on trains wouldn't get to me so much. I was attacked by somebody else for mentioning that I have worked when not in full health but if everyone took that attitude nobody would be working in this country. I appreciate that not everyone can pick themselves up, dust themselves off and keep going. I was lucky enough (after exhaustive research) to find a doctor and specialist who could help me back on my feet again. I don't feel 100% well every day but then again who does.

What am I supposed to do? Say everyone, their entire extended family and any pets they all might have has a right to a free travel pass no matter what and a right to travel whenever they want on it whenever they like?

You didn’t mention FTP card holders who didn’t look sick... except pensioners.

And some of them might not even have been FTP card holders, they might not be 66. You’re making all kinds of assumptions about the group you saw.

The bolded paragraph is simply hyperbole. Most pensioners can only bring their spouse for free unless they are ill, in which they can bring anyone. They can only bring ONE person along with them on the free pass. What are you wittering on about entire extended families and pets for? I get it, exaggeration for effect, but it does your case no good at all.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 21-11-2018 2:44pm

With all due respect Obvious Desperate Breakfast, she isn’t starting to sound unhinged. And just like you state nobody is under any obligation to agree with the OP, the same courtesy is extended to you. I am on the fence about what the op is proposing purely because I’d hate to make more vulnerable people feel isolated but I can’t disagree with what she’s saying.

We live in a country where entitlement culture is rife. We’re safdled with so much of other people’s debts in so far as well probably never own our own homes, we’re putting off starting a family until much later because we’re so busy paying for other people’s, were working ourselves into the ground and struggling to pay 50 euro to see the GP when were sick, while paying into a pot that only is distributed between those who contribute nothing.

The unemployed, and the people who have made a career out of making their womb into public transport are the people who benefit the most.

The property tax that I pay, that’s supposed to maintain local areas, does not maintain the area I pay in. They are all private houses, hedges cut are the landowners responsibility, no street lights, no footpaths, potholes left months without being fixed. You go into the local council estates you have children at play signs, speed ramps, a decent road, new footpaths, a maintained green, ample lighting. Funny how people didn’t take to the streets when that came in, or when the usc which was supposed to be temporary came in. No, only when water charges came in and it was made clear that everyone would pay for the water they used and not just the employed.

You get absolutely nothing in this country when you attempt to stand on your own two feet and help yourself, except rode. Are you telling me that it’s right that in the past two budgets the unemployed get €10 extra per week AND a Christmas bonus while the working people have probably got about €4 better off?
Do you think they worry about going to the dr when they get sick?
Do you think they give a second thought to having children they will be quite happy to declare as homeless because they want a forever house? Do you think people are happy to keep paying for people like that? Do you think we should be blessed and honored that we have the privilege of paying for kids we didn’t even get the ride for?

I know you say you wish you were paying taxes, but you’re not. You’re unwell, and that’s a sh1t hand to be dealt, truely it is. But the people who are funding everyone else have also their own crosses to bear, so for you to tear into someone and call them unhinged and insulting and arrogant well, the phrase pot kettle and a dark colour comes to mind.

Free Travel Pass Holders on peak time public transport

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