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Free Travel Pass Holders on peak time public transport

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  • 19-11-2018 9:41am
    #1
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭


    I have just got on the train. I pay over €3K a year for the privilege of travelling to work and €250 a year for parking. I am forced to commute by train because there are no viable alternatives. Driving is out because it would take 2 hours or more each way on the N7. There are no buses that go from my area. I cannot afford to live any closer to work. There are thousands of people in my position.

    Eveey morning a good proportion of the seats are taken up by what look like free travel pass holders. Sometimes people like myself (paying commuters) have to stand because of this. From Athy on more people have to stand. Meanwhile the FTP holders who got on in Waterford or Kilkenny bask in comfort.

    I understand some of them have to go to hospital appointments which is fair enough. But the gaggle of 8 mature women talking loudly about their shopping trip could have got a later train. They will probably get a peak time train home in the evening as will many of the other FTP holders. They always seem to get to the train first in the evenings while people who rush to the train from work often have to stand.

    When you are tired and burnt out you can get angry and resentful. Angry and resentful of getting nothing for your taxes and paying a huge chunk of your salary to commute (often standing each way) while those who pay nothing get the seats.

    I agree that some of these people worked hard and paid high taxes in their time but not as many of them were forced to do long commutes. They didn't have to work under the same pressure as people do now. Many of the women could be full time mums while many commuting women do not have this choice. Many of the FTP holders are in better health and more energetic than exhausted commuters. Yet we will have to work far longer than they did. Because of their energy they are able to protest if the government takes away their full time FTPs. There was a time it was for off peak travel only.

    Meanwhile commuters are getting screwed in every way but are too exhausted to do anything.

    The FTP should be for off peak travel only. If the government wants to give it to pensioners full time it should be means tested. If some of them can afford to shop in BTs they can surely afford the price of a train ticket.

    Many will disagree with me. But I am tired of paying so much and getting nothing in return.


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    #2
    JustAYoungLad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 206 ✭✭JustAYoungLad


    This is the most Irish thread ive ever read. Blowing up a non issue and extrapolating it as some sort of plight for the irish people.

    Mate if you dont like people don t take the luas


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    #3
    Dalomanakora
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭Dalomanakora


    So my quite disabled relative who can't even walk without assistance should only go out off-peak?


    Or how about they go out whenever the hell it suits them because they're entitled to their travel pass?


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    #4
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,459 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    I'm assuming they told you they have a FTP and you're not just assuming they have them based on their "appearance"?


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    #5
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    JustAYoungLad wrote: »
    This is the most Irish thread ive ever read. Blowing up a non issue and extrapolating it as some sort of plight for the irish people.

    Mate if you dont like people don t take the luas

    I don't take the Luas, I take the train from Carlow. How long is your commute?


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    #6
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,281 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Dalomanakora wrote: »
    So my quite disabled relative who can't even walk without assistance should only go out off-peak?


    Or how about they go out whenever the hell it suits them because they're entitled to their travel pass?

    Perhaps they should only be free off-peak is what the op is suggesting.

    If they want to go out during the peak they should pay.

    And OP, as another kick on the balls,by the time you retire the free travel pass will be long gone.


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    #7
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,124 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    I paid taxes for 45 years , my husband paid taxes for 45 years .We worked hard through two resessions and got our three to UNI .Thankfully we also thought them to have manners , respect and realise how much of their elders scrimped and saved for them .Many worked two jobs to pay a mortgage . Thankfully they know this and would be first to be happy for anyone who know has free travel to enjoy a day out .They would also be the first to give them their seat .


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    #8
    Grab All Association
    Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭Grab All Association


    How original a thread.


    Without free travel pass users it’d cost you a lot more to travel on public transport. Pass holders would fill seats that otherwise would remain empty. Companies have a choice of 70% of the fare or bulk payment.

    Part of the reason off peak use was scrapped was because transport companies requested it from Seamus Brennan as they struggled to fill/sell seats. 70% is better than an empty seat.


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    #9
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    Dalomanakora wrote: »
    So my quite disabled relative who can't even walk without assistance should only go out off-peak?


    Or how about they go out whenever the hell it suits them because they're entitled to their travel pass?

    I am not talking about the ill or disabled. I am talking about fit able people who are milking the FTP for all it's worth and travelling at peak time when it is not necessary. Commuters have no choice.


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    #10
    Dalomanakora
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭Dalomanakora


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Perhaps they should only go out for free off-peak is what the op is suggesting.

    If they want to go out during the peak they should pay

    Or perhaps they should go out whenever they want because it's difficult enough being disabled without self entitled workers saying they should vacate their seats because the workers can't handle standing for a commute.


    If the government decrees that they should pay, then they should pay. But that hasn't happened, so they can travel whenever they like.


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    #11
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    Grab All Association wrote: »
    How original a thread.


    Without free travel pass users it’d cost you a lot more to travel on public transport. Pass holders would fill seats that otherwise would remain empty. Companies have a choice of 70% of the fair or bulk payment.

    Part of the reason off peak use was scrapped was because transport companies requested it from Seamus Brennan as they struggled to fill/sell seats. 70% is better than an empty seat.

    Then let them travel on off peak trains which are more likely to have empty seats. If people are crammed into the corridors and the aisles on peak trains there are no empty seats.


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    #12
    Qrt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭Qrt


    Emme wrote: »
    I don't take the Luas, I take the train from Carlow. How long is your commute?

    How long is yours? Just wondering, I’ve never talked to someone who commuted from outside Dublin!


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    #13
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,650 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    How many people are we really talking here though?


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    #14
    mickuhaha
    Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭mickuhaha


    Emme wrote: »
    I am not talking about the ill or disabled. I am talking about fit able people who are milking the FTP for all it's worth and travelling at peak time when it is not necessary. Commuters have no choice.

    I would agree with the point that it is annoying not having a seat but this is Irish rails fault not ftph. You may have been able to taken an early train.


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    #15
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,281 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Dalomanakora wrote: »
    Or perhaps they should go out whenever they want because it's difficult enough being disabled without self entitled workers saying they should vacate their seats because the workers can't handle standing for a commute.


    If the government decrees that they should pay, then they should pay. But that hasn't happened, so they can travel whenever they like.
    Well obviously. What the OP is suggesting is a change in policy. Free anything is always a bad idea, it leads to abuse

    Ah self entitled workers. You mean those that pay for everything and get the least in return? Those people?


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    #16
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,459 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    Emme wrote: »
    Then let them travel on off peak trains which are more likely to have empty seats. If people are crammed into the corridors and the aisles on peak trains there are no empty seats.

    The problem with this is their free travel will be outside business hours etc, so more awkward. I think the better way to phrase this is that there should be a reduced fair during peak and free off-peak.


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    #17
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    I paid taxes for 45 years , my husband paid taxes for 45 years .We worked hard through two resessions and got our three to UNI .Thankfully we also thought them to have manners , respect and realise how much of their elders scrimped and saved for them .Many worked two jobs to pay a mortgage . Thankfully they know this and would be first to be happy for anyone who know has free travel to enjoy a day out .They would also be the first to give them their seat .

    I appreciate that some worked two jobs to pay a mortgage. However this is not an option now because of (1) longer working hours and (2) longer commutes.

    If you have to keep reminding your children of the sacrifices you made then it is not a sacrifice but a guilt trip.

    If someone is disabled or incapacitated a seat should be give up for them. But luckily being a certain age does not guarantee this.


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    #18
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    Personally I blame the liberals. All of today’s societies ills stem from them. All of it.


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    #19
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    mickuhaha wrote: »
    I would agree with the point that it is annoying not having a seat but this is Irish rails fault not ftph. You may have been able to taken an early train.

    I am talking about early trains, every morning.


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    #20
    Dalomanakora
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭Dalomanakora


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Well obviously. What the OP is suggesting is a change in policy. Free anything is always a bad idea, it leads to abuse

    Ah self entitled workers. You mean those that pay for everything and get the least in return? Those people?

    I'm also a worker.

    I mean those who apparently are incapable of standing during a commute because their job is so difficult.


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    #21
    mickuhaha
    Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭mickuhaha


    Emme wrote: »
    I am talking about early trains, every morning.
    I know you are I used to live in Carlow. The first two trains in the morning I never had an issue finding a seat only from athy onwards. This might have changed.


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    #22
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Well obviously. What the OP is suggesting is a change in policy. Free anything is always a bad idea, it leads to abuse

    Ah self entitled workers. You mean those that pay for everything and get the least in return? Those people?

    No it doesn't.


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    #23
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    Dalomanakora wrote: »
    I'm also a worker.

    I mean those who apparently are incapable of standing during a commute because their job is so difficult.

    I have an autoimmune condition and am in remission from ME. But I still hold down a job. I am not the only working person in this position. I have had several blackouts on crowded trains and a seat makes a huge difference to me.


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    #24
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,518 ✭✭✭blue note


    Op - why don't you live closer to work? It wouldn't by any chance be a choice you made to live far away for the benefits of a bigger house, cheaper cost of living, etc? As opposed to buffering forced into it.


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    #25
    zell12
    Registered Users Posts: 23,988 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    "are taken up by what look like free travel pass holders"
    :pac:


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    #26
    witchgirl26
    Registered Users Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭witchgirl26


    OP here's an alternative view for you. My sister got the Luas every day of her pregnancy. Now she was one of those people who looked really obviously pregnant (not just maybe a bit of weight on) - defined bump etc. Not one of the hard workers on the Luas ever gave up a seat to her but the 80-something year old man and his wife who were also on the same Luas did every single day. She got talking to them one day and it turns out they were going to look after their grandchild for the mornings so their daughter could go to work.

    So you mention 8 people you saw one day. 8 out of how many other commuters? Is it really that big of a problem? And you don't know if they were free-pass holders or not. They might have paid just the same as you but just looked a little older. Truth is you don't know but are getting annoyed because you didn't get a seat. And sure if they were on a commuter train (so I'm guessing in your station round 8am) and were from further back the line so they were obviously up a hell of a lot earlier than you to get that train so they could have a full day out. Maybe just get an earlier train yourself and they wouldn't be on it.


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    #27
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Graces7 wrote: »
    No it doesn't.

    Yes, it does.

    The free travel pass is a good idea but it shouldn't come at the expense of people who are paying both for themselves and the travel pass.

    The OP is right. As a 25 year old it just depresses me how older people managed to shaft my generation with national debt, an unaffordable housing market and lower salaries whilst simultaneously enjoying benefits at our expense that we'll never have like state pensions and free travel passes.

    That's how society works and that's fine, hopefully things will get better slowly for us. But in the meantime, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that if you're going to get free travel passes then you shouldn't be allowed to use them at peak times.

    You don't need to be in Dublin nine in the morning, people who work do. Unless you have a medical appointment of course, in which case it should be free.

    By the way, I think the OP is probably taking too many liberties by assuming they're FTPHs. But we all know that public transport capacity is bursting at the seams so even if you can reduce the numbers by 5-10% it would help.


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    #28
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Emme wrote:
    I have an autoimmune condition and am in remission from ME. But I still hold down a job. I am not the only working person in this position. I have had several blackouts on crowded trains and a seat makes a huge difference to me.


    Just to point out something here, but if you are prone to blackouts why are you driving a car, have you told the NDLS this? You did mention you pay for parking.


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    #29
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Emme wrote: »
    I am not talking about the ill or disabled. I am talking about fit able people who are milking the FTP for all it's worth and travelling at peak time when it is not necessary. Commuters have no choice.

    Sorry you feel so bad OP but that is not "milking the FTP" . The older ladies sound delightful and happy and they are doing nothing wrong..


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    #30
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    mickuhaha wrote: »
    I know you are I used to live in Carlow. The first two trains in the morning I never had an issue finding a seat only from athy onwards. This might have changed.

    Those trains must have increased capacity so or you are living in a parallel universe. The second train is always crammed when I get it.


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    #31
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Emme wrote: »
    I have an autoimmune condition and am in remission from ME. But I still hold down a job. I am not the only working person in this position. I have had several blackouts on crowded trains and a seat makes a huge difference to me.

    Truly sorry; I have M.E too and autoimmune issues and I know what a struggle life is. You are actually disabled and should make that known. Also I sincerely hope you are wearing a mask in these crowded places?
    That would also help folk take better care of you eg give a seat.


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