Free Travel Pass Holders on peak time public transport

Shanotheslayer · 19-11-2018 04:33PM

Emme wrote: »

Please tell me how long is your commute to and from work and how do you get there?

I live in Dublin and my Commute to work is roughly an hour including walking to and from the Luas.

If I don't get a seat it's a bit of a pain but so be it. I don't complain about it. You can be productive on public transport which is what I do.

Shanotheslayer · 19-11-2018 04:37PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Seen a few of them alright, all elderly people who should be allowed to travel where and when they want.

The issue isn't them travelling where and when they want. It's that they don't pay for it :pac:

witchgirl26 · 19-11-2018 04:55PM

Emme wrote: »

I don't mean the sick and incapacitated. Maybe some pensioners sacrificed years of their life caring for an elderly relative. They are entitled to some comfort at the end of their years. I agree that generation worked hard in their own way.

So unless they looked after someone, they're not entitled to the FTP?

Emme wrote: »

However some (not all, SOME) had benefits we can only dream of. High taxes, yes. Were they higher than what we pay now? I don't know but money seemed to go further. There were more jobs in people's locality. Long commutes were rare. People were not expected to work as much unpaid overtime. More mothers could work in the home. People could retire at 60 or 65 after 40 years in the same job and some could look forward to a decent lifestyle after this.

Yes they were higher. Significantly. Tax rates ranged from 25% to 65% in the 1980's whereas now they're either 20% or 40%. Bit of a difference. Also in regards the commute - my dad had a commute of over an hour as it was pre M50 days (for the most part) and he worked the far side of the city to where we lived. When he took early retirement, it wasn't some amazing lifestyle. The only reason he could afford to was that my mam was still working and their mortgage had been paid off due to a small lotto win. And he only retired early by 2 years.

Emme wrote: »

Now some commuters rush from home to creche to train to work to train to creche and then home to start the second shift. 6 hours uninterrupted sleep is a rare treat for these people.

But that is hardly the fault of the FTP holders is it? That has literally nothing to do with them being on the trains or buses.

Emme wrote: »

The reality is when we retire at 70 or even older it is unlikely the free travel pass will still be available. There will be no money to pay for it. That doesn't mean we should begrudge it to those who have it today but it should be used judiciously.

There is no indication at the moment that this will be the case. In fact Ireland has quite a growing population as opposed to an aging one so by the time people in their 30's or 40's come to retire, the workforce should be in a position to continue funding a scheme such as this. I know my mam rarely uses her FTP at peak times but the other morning she had to be in town for 9am for something. So she used it as she is entitled to. To her it didn't seem a big deal as she only uses it once or twice a year at peak times.

Look I can understand being frustrated that you don't get a seat at the end of a long day but realistically you aren't guaranteed that seat even if the FTP holders aren't on the train. In fact, what are the odds the number of carriages would be reduced if "the demand on the service" wasn't there from the number of passengers travelling if there really are that many of them.

skooterblue2 · 19-11-2018 04:56PM

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

The issue isn't them travelling where and when they want. It's that they don't pay for it :pac:

If they worked while serving under Lemasse, told to tighten their belts under Haughey and Fitzgearld while in constant recession, mass unemployment and immigration then they have hard earned their pension and benefits. Fair dues to ye all you have earned it.

19-11-2018 05:08PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

If they worked while serving under Lemasse, told to tighten their belts under Haughey and Fitzgearld while in constant recession, mass unemployment and immigration then they have hard earned their pension and benefits. Fair dues to ye all you have earned it.

plus the mortgage rates.

1975 11.25%
1976 12.5%
1977 13.95%
1978 14.15%
1979 14.15%
1980 14.15%
1981 16.25%
1982 16.25%
1983 13.0%
1984 11.75%
1985 13%
1986 12.5%
1987 12.5%
1988 9.25%
1989 11.4%
1990 12.37%
1991 11.95%
1992 13.99%
1993 13.99%

Edgware · 19-11-2018 05:23PM

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I live in Dublin and my Commute to work is roughly an hour including walking to and from the Luas.

If I don't get a seat it's a bit of a pain but so be it. I don't complain about it. You can be productive on public transport which is what I do.

If you dont get a seat there is always the risk of rubbing up against some young one

skooterblue2 · 19-11-2018 05:27PM

Edgware wrote: »

If you dont get a seat there is always the risk of rubbing up against some young one

Straight out of the mouth of Mick the Bull :

Zorya · 19-11-2018 05:45PM

I can understand your irritation, OP, but surely it is misdirected?

Instead of being cross with elderly travelers, be cross with a government and transport company that does not provide sufficient stock to transport all their passengers in comfort. As is their mandate.

Instead of being cross with elderly passengers using their FTPs as they are permitted, lobby TDs and government to have the amenity changed to an Off-Peak allowance, with contribution at Peak travel times. It is unlikely that pensioners are regularly having days out - it will be different groups different days, and as individuals they are entitled to use the passes as they are presently designated.

Instead of being cross with these elderly passengers be cross at the feudal system (I agree with you completely on that) that has you and many others hounded from morning to night, often working at bull**** or meaningless jobs in order to be barely or not able to afford to live decently ie with sufficient time for loved ones and sufficient funds for basic necessities like housing.

We are all kept incessantly at each others throats in this system, snarling at and begrudging each other every morsel, because the system is so damn heartless - and thus we do not raise our eyes, voices (and better yet, pitchforks!) to look at the fat cats who are responsible, who cream off the wealth andwho could hardly give less of a single fcuk about the plebian masses ie their workers and consumers.

May we all be old one day.

Emme · 19-11-2018 06:04PM

Zorya wrote: »

I can understand your irritation, OP, but surely it is misdirected? Instead of being cross with elderly travelers, be cross with a government and transport company that does not provide sufficient stock to transport all their passengers in comfort. As is their mandate.

I agree that my irritation could be misdirected. The train line I travel on (Waterford) is forgotten and underresourced. Trains are nearly always late and take 10-15 minutes longer to complete their journey than stated. Exhaustion can stop people from thinking clearly and I am permanently exhausted, I have been since I moved from Dublin to the countryside.

Zorya wrote: »

Instead of being cross with elderly passengers using their FTPs as they are permitted, lobby TDs and government to have the amenity changed to an Off-Peak allowance, with contribution at Peak travel times. It is unlikely that pensioners are regularly having days out - it will be different groups different days, and as individuals they are entitled to use the passes as they are presently designated.

I don't think the government will change the FTP system. Perhaps one reason I am so annoyed at these seemingly sprightly pensioners because I have seen my own parents suffer so much over the years - they would not have been able to use the travel pass for a long time.

Zorya wrote: »

Instead of being cross with these elderly passengers be cross at the feudal system (I agree with you completely on that) that has you and many others hounded from morning to night, often working at bull**** or meaningless jobs in order to be barely or not able to afford to live decently ie with sufficient time for loved ones and sufficient funds for basic necessities like housing.

I agree the system is ridiculous. The average person is priced out of Dublin and towns within a 20 km radius yet the countryside is being denuded of jobs daily and people are forced to do longer and longer commutes to their places of work.

Zorya wrote: »

We are all kept incessantly at each others throats in this system, snarling at and begrudging each other every morsel, because the system is so damn heartless - and thus we do not raise our eyes, voices (and better yet, pitchforks!) to look at the fat cats who are responsible, who cream off the wealth andwho could hardly give less of a single fcuk about the plebian masses ie their workers and consumers.

The system is designed that way. We lash out at the person next to us rather than those above us. This technique was used to succesfully pit private sector workers against public sector workers during the recession to justify pay cuts all round and an overall reduction in people's pay, work conditions and rights.

Zorya wrote: »

May we all be old one day.

If people want to be old I wish them a happy, healthy and prosperous old age.

I personally do not want to live beyond a certain age because I have seen too much ongoing suffering in my own family over the years. Dealing with suffering family members takes up nearly all of my time outside work and I admit it leaves me exhausted and embittered. It is very difficult when you are powerless to help people who are suffering and there is no end in sight.

iamwhoiam · 19-11-2018 06:11PM

^^^^^

So am I reading your above post right ? You are annoyed at me for being a sprightly pensioner because your parents are less able than I ?

Zorya · 19-11-2018 06:13PM

Emme wrote: »

If people want to be old I wish them a happy, healthy and prosperous old age.

I personally do not want to live beyond a certain age because I have seen too much ongoing suffering in my own family over the years. Dealing with suffering family members takes up nearly all of my time outside work and I admit it leaves me exhausted and embittered. It is very difficult when you are powerless to help people who are suffering and there is no end in sight.

Sorry to hear. My own dad suffered tremendously, but nevertheless I would still like to grow old, and look forward to it.

I grew up along that Waterford line, and traveled regularly to Dublin from one of the towns much maligned along the line

Even donkeys years ago you were guaranteed a long stand all the way to the city. Plus ca change, eh?

Zorya · 19-11-2018 06:16PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

^^^^^

So am I reading your above post right ? You are annoyed at me for being a sprightly pensioner because your parents are less able than I ?

I think they are admitting to being exhausted and embittered. Which is fair of them. Given enough to deal with, any of us could get to feel that way. I know when I am exhausted enough it's a good thing concealed carry is not legal in this country

iamwhoiam · 19-11-2018 06:24PM

Zorya wrote: »

I think they are admitting to being exhausted and embittered. Which is fair of them. Given enough to deal with, any of us could get to feel that way. I know when I am exhausted enough it's a good thing concealed carry is not legal in this country

Look , I had my own difficulties in life and now retired . I understand being exhausted but oddly enough I never thought that begrudging pensioners their free travel was going to ease my burden !

Emme · 19-11-2018 06:28PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

^^^^^

So am I reading your above post right ? You are annoyed at me for being a sprightly pensioner because your parents are less able than I ?

If you have your health and are able to get around without pain be thankful.

Zorya · 19-11-2018 06:28PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Look , I had my own difficulties in life and now retired . I understand being exhausted but oddly enough I never thought that begrudging pensioners their free travel was going to ease my burden !

Me too (difficulties) and me neither (begrudging) ...although 1. when I have my period all bets are off on public transport :pac: and 2. there is a smelly-arsed, pissy-panted brigade of old codgers who use the bus transport daily in this area and I would rather cling to the roof rack than ever share space with them again!

iamwhoiam · 19-11-2018 07:07PM

Emme wrote: »

If you have your health and are able to get around without pain be thankful.

What makes you think for one single second that I am not ?

Chinasea · 19-11-2018 07:52PM

I don't agree with free travel. Every one should pay something at least. You'd think Ireland was Brunei sometimes.

Pensioners travel at a reduced rate in the USA. As much as 50%. You can bet that most of them have also contributed to the work force.

Lone Stone · 19-11-2018 07:54PM

jesus christ

Sir Oxman · 19-11-2018 08:02PM

Dalomanakora wrote: »

So my quite disabled relative who can't even walk without assistance should only go out off-peak?

Or how about they go out whenever the hell it suits them because they're entitled to their travel pass?

As pointed out previoulsy, maybe pay during peak hours?

FTA69 · 19-11-2018 08:11PM

Emme wrote: »

The only support I got on this thread was from other people who are working and have long commutes. That is very telling. I was also told that I am paying too much to travel. I am well aware of that. I can barely make ends meet at the end of the month. I feel like I am slaving away in a feudal system as a serf with the welfare class as my overlords. Cue the litany of rage from people claiming various benefits... pipe down!

Claiming benefits? I've never claimed a benefit in my life. Also I'm currently working out in Heathrow Airport which is nearly two hours away from me; and if you think congestion is bad on Irish rail then try and get on the Tube at rush hour. I know plenty about long commutes and hard work thanks. The difference is I don't get on the Tube or the train here and blame people on the dole for the fact it's packed.

By the way the people who pay your wages and have us all trapped in a system of crap pay and crap public services aren't the unemployed or the elderly. If you're looking to change the system then look at those with stake in it and those who wield economic power, not those who don't. If you're reasoning for poor transport in Ireland is "it's the unemployed" then your perspectives are off the wall. You need to look higher up the chain.

Emme · 19-11-2018 08:36PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

What makes you think for one single second that I am not ?

Actually I don't care if you are or you are not. If you want to be thankful for your health that's up to you.

iamwhoiam · 19-11-2018 08:44PM

Emme wrote: »

Actually I don't care if you are or you are not. If you want to be thankful for your health that's up to you.

Actually it was you who told me I should be thankful ? Seems you cared enough to post that
Can I ask you why you are so abrasive towards me ? I am well thank you and use my travel pass to travel when I wish to . Is this such a thorn in your side that you seem to resent that fact ?
Try and relax a little and pick your battles wisely . Being angry at me is not going to change your lot .

Emme · 19-11-2018 09:46PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Actually it was you who told me I should be thankful ? Seems you cared enough to post that
Can I ask you why you are so abrasive towards me ? I am well thank you and use my travel pass to travel when I wish to . Is this such a thorn in your side that you seem to resent that fact ?
Try and relax a little and pick your battles wisely . Being angry at me is not going to change your lot .

I am not angry at any one personally. I have an extremely busy home life with a lot of stuff going on and a pressurised job like many others and I don't think it is too much to ask of the rail system that I get a seat in the train when I pay thousands per year to travel by train.

I only replied to your comments on my article which came across to me as being on the offensive towards me personally.

I have no wish to pick a battle with you or anyone else personally and I never referred to any individuals in my original post, just people who use free travel passes at a time when the trains are likely to be most crowded when they don't need to use them. Some of the people who need to use FTPs at all times would be:

The disabled
The ill (not necessarily obvious to everyone)
Parents with sick children if they have FTPs
Those with hospital/medical appointments
Those accompanying the ill or disabled who are unable to get around themselves

Again I was not referring to you or anyone else personally or individually. So many people have attacked me on this thread (as I predicted would happen) I couldn't keep track of any one person anyway.

Example from the animal kingdom. When you pack battery hens into cages one will eventually go insane and start attacking the others who join in attacking the hen who started the fight. Am I insane? Maybe. The veneer of civilisation is surprisingly thin in people and none of us can say we are any more civilised than the others.

Cram enough people into public transport and one will eventually snap. If it's people venting on boards that's a mild form of snapping. If it's people verbally abusing other train passengers face to face (there are plenty of YouTube videos of this) it is a more serious situation.

Like battery hens those at fault are not the hens in the cages with us but those who metaphorically put us into the cages and pack us in tighter.

Why would anyone want to get into a packed cage when they don't have to?

I only eat free range eggs by the way.

19-11-2018 10:11PM

Sir Oxman wrote: »

As pointed out previoulsy, maybe pay during peak hours?

So on top of the existing substantial extra costs of living with a disability of up to €10k a year, you now want those people to pay more to travel to/from work, just to make other commuters feel a bit better?

https://www.rte.ie/eile/brainstorm/2017/1129/923751-the-hidden-cost-of-disability/

On the broader issue, one advantage of the new digital cards is that at least the travel companies should be able to track usage, and should have some decent data about how often/frequently those who use the pass are travelling.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 19-11-2018 10:51PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

They had their FTP out. They paid zilch.

And you misread the point - packed train with workers wanting to get home, max 5 people on seats for 8 and refusing to move their crap so at least 3 people could get a seat.

No way is that okay.

When I started commuting I’d never say anything to people taking up more than one seat. By the end I enjoyed it. When you’re traveling every morning you get to see the signs, the person who pretends to be asleep as the train is rolling into the next station, the old lady who’ll have her wheelie trolley in the seat beside her, the person with the suitcase on the seat, the person who’ll lay across two seats to sleep. I remember being on a packed train on the way to work one morning and there was only one free seat, so many people asked if it was free and the old lady replied no it wasn’t, her friend was in the toilet. There was lots of people standing in between carriages. As we approached the next station, the lady had gone back to reading her book and no sign of her friend. I approached the seat and kindly asked her to move her trolley. She said the seat was taken and her friend was in the toilet. I explained I would move when her friend came back from the toilet. Nobody came the entire hour we were on the train, there was no friend. Another morning I asked a girl to move her feet off the second seat and she asked me to find somewhere else to sit. I apologized to her for not realizing she’s paid for two seats and told her to move her feet again. I sat next to her and basked in the awkwardness the entire hour.

I would always offer my seat to an elderly person, but I do agree there should be a discounted charge on peak train times.

PlaneSpeeking · 20-11-2018 11:02AM

Viviana Careful Wildfire wrote: »

When I started commuting I’d never say anything to people taking up more than one seat. By the end I enjoyed it. When you’re traveling every morning you get to see the signs, the person who pretends to be asleep as the train is rolling into the next station, the old lady who’ll have her wheelie trolley in the seat beside her, the person with the suitcase on the seat, the person who’ll lay across two seats to sleep. I remember being on a packed train on the way to work one morning and there was only one free seat, so many people asked if it was free and the old lady replied no it wasn’t, her friend was in the toilet. There was lots of people standing in between carriages. As we approached the next station, the lady had gone back to reading her book and no sign of her friend. I approached the seat and kindly asked her to move her trolley. She said the seat was taken and her friend was in the toilet. I explained I would move when her friend came back from the toilet. Nobody came the entire hour we were on the train, there was no friend. Another morning I asked a girl to move her feet off the second seat and she asked me to find somewhere else to sit. I apologized to her for not realizing she’s paid for two seats and told her to move her feet again. I sat next to her and basked in the awkwardness the entire hour.

I would always offer my seat to an elderly person, but I do agree there should be a discounted charge on peak train times.

As House says "Everybody Lies"!!!! Mind you I've pretended to be pregnant once to get a seat, well not lie per se but someone stood up for me and said "the wife is having our third"and I didn't disagree!!!

Graces7 · 20-11-2018 01:35PM

troyzer wrote: »

Yeah, wouldn't want to be an uppity youngster. How dare I have a go at older people with their €500k houses they bought for €40k whilst forcing us to pay €1.5k a month for a shed an hour and a half away from work which pays us less than it pays you simply for being younger.

And while you're retired and enjoying your state pension and free travel pass, it's left to us to pay the €200bn national debt you racked up.

Cheers for that.

Show some humility, older people in Ireland are absolutely blessed with all of the advantages they have over younger people. More money, more public services, more freebies and they struggled far less with the basics than we are now. That's just a fact.

The pass is currently availably for free all day long, but it shouldn't be. That's the whole point.

Why not? The whole point is your woeful attitude..

And by the way none of your accusations apply to me or my life. none.
And I do not know any in the bitter categorisation you are indulging in. Many have to choose between heating and eating.

You have no idea what the world is like for older folk.

I keep thinking of that lovely group of older women the OP mentioned, off to enjoy a day together... wonderful..

PlaneSpeeking · 20-11-2018 01:38PM

Graces7 wrote: »

Why not? The whole point is your woeful attitude..

And by the way none of your accusations apply to me or my life. none.
And I do not know any in the bitter categorisation you are indulging in. Many have to choose between heating and eating.

You have no idea what the world is like for older folk.

I keep thinking of that lovely group of older women the OP mentioned, off to enjoy a day together... wonderful..

I've reported that as it is the definition of uncivil talk.

I do agree with you that for the elderly the pass should be free (but off peak only) but I'd be reluctant to engage if insults are to be thrown out there.

Graces7 · 20-11-2018 01:38PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Even the phrase 'Free Travel' is erroneous.

Someone always has to pick up the tab. As per usual it's the people who pick up the tab for everything else like free water, free education and forever-homes.

:eek:

Lyle Lanley · 20-11-2018 01:42PM

Motorbikes are the solution to so many commuter's woes. Leave public transport to the disabled/elderly.

Free Travel Pass Holders on peak time public transport

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