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BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

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    #6032
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Bambi wrote: »
    Madness to sign off on anything based off pre covid commuting levels.

    People still use public transport believe it or not


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    #6033
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Peregrine wrote: »
    You know damn well that the €2bn is not the cost of the network redesign.

    Yeah I'm aware.


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    #6034
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    I'm mixed about this. On one hand I'm delighted they are investing in proper orbital services meaning you can travel places without having to ho through the city centre as well as shorter local routes. On the other hand I think a lot of it is just renumbering existing routes which to me is a bit pointless.


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    #6035
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Bambi wrote: »
    Madness to sign off on anything based off pre covid commuting levels.

    Absolutely is not.


    We were already under-resourced; this implementation was to stand-still.


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    #6036
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,746 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    The real fun will start when they try widening roads etc and TDs from the constituency start making a fuss and the whole thing goes to sh*t and we end up with some mickey mouse version of the original plan because people don't realise cities change and gardens need to get smaller or sometimes you may even have to knock down and redevelop whole areas for the greater good, like they do in proper cities. Look at something like the Westway built in London in the 60s, they had to demolish loads of dwellings and all sorts to get it done, this country will never have the vision or leadership or the cojones required for these kinds of things, and we'll carry on building semi-ds and one offs and the usual sh*te forever and ever...


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    #6037
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    GT89 wrote: »
    I'm mixed about this. On one hand I'm delighted they are investing in proper orbital services meaning you can travel places without having to ho through the city centre as well as shorter local routes. On the other hand I think a lot of it is just renumbering existing routes which to me is a bit pointless.

    I think that this is more of a testament to the effectiveness of Network Direct (remember that). They're getting it right, they just took the scenic route to getting here.


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    #6038
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,301 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    My orbital route, the S8 from Dún Laoghaire to Citywest, has a small problem with the rollout of this new route network.

    Why did the NTA not give a date for the CBC consultations when the final bus network report was published yesterday?

    When I heard that the CBC proposals will go through another round of consultation later this year; it's appears that will be some delay with the traffic light island at Temple Hill in Blackrock for the Blackrock to Merrion corridor. When the S8 travels past the Junction of Newtownpark Avenue on Stradbrook Road; it's meant to have a right hand turn in place for the bus to turn right from Temple Hill for it to travel down Monkstown Road for the remainder of it's route to Dún Laoghaire.

    The current traffic lights at that location don't offer a right hand turn there to make the plan for the S8 work atm. Cars waiting at those lights have to go straight ahead & turn right at the next junction near Newtown Avenue in Blackrock.

    Are the NTA releasing the CBC consultations all in one go this time to finish them off or will they go out again on a phased basis?


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    #6039
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,232 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    My orbital route, the S8 from Dún Laoghaire to Citywest, has a small problem with the rollout of this new route network.

    Why did the NTA not give a date for the CBC consultations when the final bus network report was published yesterday?

    When I heard that the CBC proposals will go through another round of consultation later this year; it's appears that will be some delay with the traffic light island at Temple Hill in Blackrock for the Blackrock to Merrion corridor. When the S8 travels past the Junction of Newtownpark Avenue on Stradbrook Road; it's meant to have a right hand turn in place for the bus to turn right from Temple Hill for it to travel down Monkstown Road for the remainder of it's route to Dún Laoghaire.

    The current traffic lights at that location don't offer a right hand turn there to make the plan for the S8 work atm. Cars waiting at those lights have to go straight ahead & turn right at the next junction near Newtown Avenue in Blackrock.

    Are the NTA releasing the CBC consultations all in one go this time to finish them off or will they go out again on a phased basis?

    There's going to be infrastructure works as part of the roll out of the new network, separate to the CBC project, so that issue will get fixed before launch.


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    #6040
    Thrashssacre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Thrashssacre


    Happy enough with the new plan clondalkin managed to get a couple of extra routes and kept what it had previous, the local from red cow luas to leixlip opens up alot of new direct journeys clondalkin villiage to Lúcán villiage or Fonthill Road to red cow luas, hopefully they just get on with it and make the switch now, looks a decent overall improvement to what we have now.


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    #6041
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,865 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    It all sounds good overall. But how many years will it take to implement.

    Is there any chance that "easy" routes could be rolled out first. Thinking of routes like Lucan to CC down the N4 and Chapelizod by pass. All they have to do there is install a pull in bus stop at the top of Chapelizod Hill on both sides for example. Anyway I am sure I will be told I am talking through my swizz.

    Other areas come to mind too. Wouldn't it be better to gradually introduce changes where there is minimal disruption and let people see the benefits relatively early in the process?


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    #6042
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    The easiest way to implement it would be to change the ones that are almost as identical to the current routes, ie. the Lucan spine. In addition to this, the local and orbital routes will effectively ADD to the network anyway with no loss anywhere, so when they change the more contentious routes/spines they are being added into an already extant new network rather than being changed to no seeming advantage.


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    #6043
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,245 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be better to gradually introduce changes where there is minimal disruption and let people see the benefits relatively early in the process?
    You have to be careful. Living in perpetual change is not good.

    While there are probably advantages to a certain amount of phasing (the orbitals, the north county Dublin and Wicklow routes could be done in advance), a 'big bang' during a quiet period, e.g. summer, is probably the best way to go about it.


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    #6044
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Victor wrote: »
    You have to be careful. Living in perpetual change is not good.

    While there are probably advantages to a certain amount of phasing (the orbitals, the north county Dublin and Wicklow routes could be done in advance), a 'big bang' during a quiet period, e.g. summer, is probably the best way to go about it.

    They should have it ready to roll out during the next Covid wave, and requisite restrictions.


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    #6045
    Thrashssacre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Thrashssacre


    Personally i think it just needs to be done in one go with info brochures sent to every household the week before.


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    #6046
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Thrashssacre wrote: »
    Personally i think it just needs to be done in one go with info brochures sent to every household the week before.

    I would agree.

    But remember the chaos and confusion that Network Direct caused.

    The thoughts of Liveline the week of a Big Bang implementation would be something else.


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    #6047
    Polar101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭Polar101


    BonnieSituation wrote: »

    The thoughts of Liveline the week of a Big Bang implementation would be something else.

    It would help if the politicians and the media could read and understand the plan too - I think the spines were too much for some.

    But at the end of the day it's just bus lines, it can't be that hard for most people to figure out which bus to take? Might be confusing the first day, but after that? Surely not.


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    #6048
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    I think realistically, the phased implementation is more for Dublin Bus' comprehension and practicalities than anything else. Each individual person in Dublin is only going to be doing 1 or 2 different return journeys most of the time. That means each individual only has to figure out a very small piece of the overall network.

    There's nothing particularly taxing in that that requires such a long, phased approach. But it's phased because there are humans involved with driving the buses, and there may be unexpected practical hiccups that arise from the changes.


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    #6049
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭john boye


    Killinarden is going from the never-ending magical mystery tour of the 77A to the epic odyssey of the 82. I know pax can change to something more direct in the square but that 82 really does look like the inevitable end product of trying to please everyone.


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    #6050
    StreetLight
    Registered Users Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    Is there any logic to the non-spine radial route numbers? They appear to be randomly selected and almost completely different to the pre-consultation plan.


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    #6051
    Fizzy Duck
    Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭Fizzy Duck


    StreetLight wrote: »
    Is there any logic to the non-spine radial route numbers? They appear to be randomly selected and almost completely different to the pre-consultation plan.

    Anti clockwise 1 to 100. from Howth (6) to Loughlinstown (98). From what it looks like to me.


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    #6052
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭john boye


    Fizzy Duck wrote: »
    Anti clockwise 1 to 100. from Howth (6) to Loughlinstown (98). From what it looks like to me.

    They also seem to all be numbers which aren't used atm.


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    #6053
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,301 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    john boye wrote: »
    They also seem to all be numbers which aren't used atm.

    But a lot of them have been used in the past by CIE/Dublin Bus over the decades.


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    #6054
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭john boye


    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    But a lot of them have been used in the past by CIE/Dublin Bus over the decades.

    I guess "atm" isn't enough for everyone...


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    #6055
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    john boye wrote: »
    They also seem to all be numbers which aren't used atm.

    37 is still the same route and number by the looks of things however the 98 which is the same as the 7a albeit at reduced frequency has a different number and the new route 21 looks to be the same as the 43


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    #6056
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭john boye


    GT89 wrote: »
    37 is still the same route and number by the looks of things however the 98 which is the same as the 7a albeit at reduced frequency has a different number and the new route 21 looks to be the same as the 43

    Hadn't actually noticed the 37!


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    #6057
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Keeping the 37 and the slight change in route took me by surprise. Are they really going to reintroduce 2 way double decker bus movements on Aughrim st? It used to be a complete disaster, buses reversing and trying to reach each other on the radio. Maybe it'll remain as is until they do the cbc work in Stoneybatter so there won't be much other traffic on the street.


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    #6058
    eguiney
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭eguiney


    The new 37 was added to the final plan in response to feedback that the Clonsilla Road had no service and that there was no link to the new Grangegorman campus.

    The 34 is the main intended replacement for the 37. Avoiding Blackhorse Avenue is likely to be quite popular!


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    #6059
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,301 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    There's a new short TFI youtube video about bus priority corridors out today.



    It shows us how the bus will be able to get ahead of the traffic on a CBC from a priority signalled junction.


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    #6060
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    There's a new short TFI youtube video about bus priority corridors out today.



    It shows us how the bus will be able to get ahead of the traffic on a CBC from a priority signalled junction.

    So like Rathgar road into rathmines for example and it never works.


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    #6061
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Great theory but as we see on Bachelors walk, what if Motorists beat the system and simply drive in the bus lane? There is currently no effective deterrent from doing so and government is opposed to introducing one.


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