BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

GT89

cgcsb wrote: »

Can I ask why H? I mean I'm glad something is happening but it seems like the least important.

Probably the easiest one to start with for a dry run

cgcsb

devnull wrote: »

I'm sure that the NTA would have prefered to not have spent as much time as they have discussing the livery and looking at it again and revising it.

However other people have issues with the current livery and have not been shy about pointing this out. They also want the NTA to present the new green and yellow livery to them to have their say before it's confirmed to decide if it is acceptable or not.

This is why China wins at important stuff. We (and I mean most western countries) have become a people who beat around the bush and submerge ourselves in frivolous minutiae and report writing while nothing gets done.

Peregrine

cgcsb wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac: nobody cares what colour buses are, they care about paying 3 fares for one journey. We were promised this practice of punishing customers who have to change bus would be near an end when leap came in 11 years ago and guess what we're still getting punished for changing buses (with the SAME bus operator).

You don't have to care about it for it to be an issue. I still get asked by people if the different colour buses take Leapcards, Free Travel Cards etc. Consistent branding is a pretty simple concept and its benefits are widely accepted. It's important enough to hire some resources to fix.

Qrt

What’s happening with the H spine? I’m confused

GT89

Peregrine wrote: »

You don't have to care about it for it to be an issue. I still get asked by people if the different colour buses take Leapcards, Free Travel Cards etc. Consistent branding is a pretty simple concept and its benefits are widely accepted. It's important enough to hire some resources to fix.

My bigger gripe is the fact that DB and GAI information isn't all in the same place you have to go to separate websites to find information on each companies services the DB website for DB services and the GAI or TFI websites for info on GAI operated services.

Also the bus stop information between DB and GAI is inconsistent and in many cases the GAI information is outdated. It's funny because many don't know the difference between DB and GAI buses most just see the big yellow and blue bus approaching the stop.

But yes DB and GAI should be in the same livery. I'm not sure what's wrong with the currrent TFI livery used on GAI and some BE buses aswell and why that can't be rolled out to DB services aswell it's visible since they added yellow to the original design so I don't see the issue. I can't help but feel some of the disability activists are deliberately being difficult in order to try and retain the status quo.

MJohnston

cgcsb wrote: »

This is why China wins at important stuff. We (and I mean most western countries) have become a people who beat around the bush and submerge ourselves in frivolous minutiae and report writing while nothing gets done.

Hmm no, they “win” by treating millions of their population like slaves. There really is no value in comparison to China on infrastructural construction.

devnull

GT89 wrote: »

But yes DB and GAI should be in the same livery. I'm not sure what's wrong with the currrent TFI livery used on GAI and some BE buses aswell and why that can't be rolled out to DB services aswell it's visible since they added yellow to the original design so I don't see the issue. I can't help but feel some of the disability activists are deliberately being difficult in order to try and retain the status quo.

It's not just the disability groups to be fair.

I did notice that one of their biggest campaigners however did post a chart on twitter a while back showing how much more visible the colour yellow was than blue to a partially sighted person and how yellow was the best colour for such people and I thought that this was interesting as it was something scientific to add to support their argument. The NTA agreed so added yellow. Good move in my book.

However the point was totally lost when a while later the same individual who made the case against the blue, started to complain about the NTA livery with the now added yellow being rolled out to Bus Eireann vehicles as apparently the red and white front was more visible than the NTA livery, despite the fact according to the chart they earlier posted, red was just as bad as blue and white wasn't as good as yellow, which exposed their agenda for what it was.

This is the problem you have when the parts of a publicly funded transport system and the various stakeholders and groups involved with them are more interested in the parts that make-up the system rather than that of a whole.

CatInABox

cgcsb wrote: »

Can I ask why H? I mean I'm glad something is happening but it seems like the least important.

At a guess, the H is the route that is changing the least. It's only a pretend spine, with basically no infrastructure changes required.

In other words, they're changing the the bus designation from numbers and letters, to letters and numbers.

cgcsb

MJohnston wrote: »

Hmm no, they “win” by treating millions of their population like slaves. There really is no value in comparison to China on infrastructural construction.

I'm not saying we should be like China, I'm saying there could be a happy middle ground where one public consultation is sufficient and then just go ahead and do it.

GT89

devnull wrote: »

It's not just the disability groups to be fair.

I did notice that one of their biggest campaigners however did post a chart on twitter a while back showing how much more visible the colour yellow was than blue to a partially sighted person and how yellow was the best colour for such people and I thought that this was interesting as it was something scientific to add to support their argument. The NTA agreed so added yellow. Good move in my book.

However the point was totally lost when a while later the same individual who made the case against the blue, started to complain about the NTA livery with the now added yellow being rolled out to Bus Eireann vehicles as apparently the red and white front was more visible than the NTA livery, despite the fact according to the chart they earlier posted, red was just as bad as blue and white wasn't as good as yellow, which exposed their agenda for what it was.

This is the problem you have when the parts of a publicly funded transport system and the various stakeholders and groups involved with them are more interested in the parts that make-up the system rather than that of a whole.

The other thing about these disability groups is they are not very quick to give the NTA any credit at all when they bought low floor accesible coaches for Bus Eireann and Go-Ahead replacing some of the previous high floor coaches. The only complaint I would have about these is the wheelchair user still has to give 24hr notice before using these services I believe despite the low floor accesibility.

Dyr

cgcsb wrote: »

This is why China wins at important stuff. We (and I mean most western countries) have become a people who beat around the bush and submerge ourselves in frivolous minutiae and report writing while nothing gets done.

Indeed, if we were only more like Communists when it comes to transport

Or possibly, Mussolini.

AndrewJRenko

GT89 wrote: »

The other thing about these disability groups is they are not very quick to give the NTA any credit at all when they bought low floor accesible coaches for Bus Eireann and Go-Ahead replacing some of the previous high floor coaches. The only complaint I would have about these is the wheelchair user still has to give 24hr notice before using these services I believe despite the low floor accesibility.

Possibly the reason why they don't give much credit to Bus Eireann for wheelchair accessible coaches is that the vast majority of Bus Eireann bus stops are not wheelchair accessible. The coach wheelchair lift needs a large, flat, concrete area for the lift to work. Bus Eireann/NTA/local authorities have made very little effort to make stops accessible so that the wheelchair lifts can work.

icdg

Peregrine wrote: »

The NTA are trying to implement a new green and yellow livery based off the hybrid trials. Should be interesting to see how it goes this time.

While I’m not sure this is the place to note this, it’s not really worth a new thread...bus stop heads on the Jj Kavanagh 139 route (or at least some of them) have been changed from yellow Dublin Bus to blue TFI generic (the same as Go Ahead stops) this week, and some have got entirely new green and yellow poles and heads.

Peregrine

icdg wrote: »

While I’m not sure this is the place to note this, it’s not really worth a new thread...bus stop heads on the Jj Kavanagh 139 route (or at least some of them) have been changed from yellow Dublin Bus to blue TFI generic (the same as Go Ahead stops) this week, and some have got entirely new green and yellow poles and heads.

It's part of the design alright. I should have said they're changing both the livery and bus stops to green/yellow.

Spanish Eyes

Snails pace going on. This thread was started in 2017.

I have no confidence that anything will be achieved, and I do acknowledge the virus impact.

p_haugh

icdg wrote: »

While I’m not sure this is the place to note this, it’s not really worth a new thread...bus stop heads on the Jj Kavanagh 139 route (or at least some of them) have been changed from yellow Dublin Bus to blue TFI generic (the same as Go Ahead stops) this week, and some have got entirely new green and yellow poles and heads.

And they made a right balls of it too, a lot of the new poles put up around maynooth have the wrong routes showing in on the flag, with some even show 39 & 39a there!

GT89

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Snails pace going on. This thread was started in 2017.

I have no confidence that anything will be achieved, and I do acknowledge the virus impact.

What about the frequency improvements over the last couple of years and new routes like the 155 and 175. Also the 24hr service on the 15 and 41. Ok it's not enough at not fast enough a pace but to say nothing has improved would be incorrect.

AngryLips

GT89 wrote: »

What about the frequency improvements over the last couple of years and new routes like the 155 and 175. Also the 24hr service on the 15 and 41. Ok it's not enough at not fast enough a pace but to say nothing has improved would be incorrect.

This is a good point, the bus service in Dublin has improved significantly albeit incrementally in the last few years. And I think the introduction of the TFI-livery services has actually been a really good development for the city in the sense that it's made people aware of orbital services when previously they might have just been mistaken for radial DB services.

Peregrine

We might be getting an update on bus lane cameras soon.

Peregrine

Peregrine wrote: »

We might be getting an update on bus lane cameras soon.

Well, that was a load of nothing. The Department of Transport are engaging with the NTA about how to achieve the best system of enforcement apparently. We already knew that.

p_haugh

Somewhat of an update on the final network design

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1305116485589889026?s=19

cgcsb

An unmitigated disgrace. 3 years in and the new network was supposed to be a year bedded down already.

dublinman1990

What would be the main areas to address in this final bus network plan being published soon by the NTA?

Would I be right in saying that it's either one of the following or both......

a) It's one more consultation in this plan being made to the public before the new bus network get's launched next year.

OR

b) It's a full plan with setting out how the new bus network is going to be rolled out in Dublin for next year with no public consultation needed.

I would assume there could be a few more tweaks made here & there with how the structure of the routes are being proposed or more small changes being made to the route frequency. I would really hope that the proposed frequencies of the routes featured in the previous plans for the project don't get watered down too much for this new plan that is to be published because of local opposition from various groups that were opposed to BusConnects in the past.

Re: revamped bus fares, new bus stops & timetables etc The decision of the new flat fare for Leap Card users could probably be decided on with this new plan because probably that hasn't been decided yet until this report gets published by the NTA. Or am I wrong on that. Is that decision published already.

What I can acknowledge from all of the proposals published in the past is that even though they do include things that may or may not please everybody living within every area of the GDA. It does count as a huge step forward in how it improves the bus service for tons of people who live in Dublin for many many years & beyond that whenever other newer modes of PT infrastructure gets built in Dublin over the next 10 years or more. This plan could make enormous changes to improving their quality of life while living in Dublin. It could be something that could be seen as a life changing benefit to the people of Dublin for the long term in using cheaper PT.

When you look at other cities transport networks around the world for example. Irish people going to these places while either on holidays or to live there should be able to see & understand why more frequent bus services are being offered to the public who live in those cities which can be seen as a big benefit to those populations. If some Irish people travel abroad & cannot understand the idea of why certain people need to be offered a vastly improved bus service in their area with a reasonable explanation in place that explains their position; they could see huge problems from their perspective in how it benefit's one person over the other.

cgcsb

One of the biggest stumbling blocks for getting the public on board stems from a lack of integrated ticketing. The public didn't know or didn't believe that that they wouldn't be charged twice for a journey on busconnects that involved a change. And to be fair why should they? integrated ticketing has been in place in every medium to large European city for most of the 20th century but Ireland still refuses to implement it in 2020 for reasons that have not yet been explained to the hard pressed commuter / tax payer, and indeed the 'reasons' are pitiful.

If integrated ticketing was introduced in the 90s/early 00s as part of city swift then busconnects would have been a non issue for most. Indeed most of the reforms would have been brought in as part of Network direct.

Cookie_Monster

cgcsb wrote: »

An unmitigated disgrace. 3 years in and the new network was supposed to be a year bedded down already.

Do you expect anything different anymore?

PT in Ireland: If it's broke, don't fix it.

p_haugh

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Would I be right in saying that it's either one of the following or both......

a) It's one more consultation in this plan being made to the public before the new bus network get's launched next year.

OR

b) It's a full plan with setting out how the new bus network is going to be rolled out in Dublin for next year with no public consultation needed.

From the wording of the tweet, it sounds like it's option B, they don't mention public consultation at all and say "final plan". Could well be another round of public consultation however - we'll find out soon enough.

Peregrine

The final network is complete and so is the implementation plan. I don't think there will be any major changes on that.

AlmightyCushion

p_haugh wrote: »

From the wording of the tweet, it sounds like it's option B, they don't mention public consultation at all and say "final plan". Could well be another round of public consultation however - we'll find out soon enough.

I don't recall being consulted on when these consultations happen. We need a public consultation to determine the best date to have the public consultations. You can't have too many public consultations.

Peregrine

p_haugh wrote: »

From the wording of the tweet, it sounds like it's option B, they don't mention public consultation at all and say "final plan". Could well be another round of public consultation however - we'll find out soon enough.

I got a confirmation that they're just publishing the report on the final network. No consultation.

ITV2

Peregrine wrote: »

I got a confirmation that they're just publishing the report on the final network. No consultation.

Any idea when?