BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

MJohnston

And of course they have to include a ****ing taxi in the video.

AlekSmart

MJohnston wrote: »

And of course they have to include a ****ing taxi in the video.

Ah but....at least there are no Cyclists,skateboards,scooters,monowheels or recumbent spacecraft lanes to be seen...so it must be a historic clip ?

downtheroad

cgcsb wrote: »

Great theory but as we see on Bachelors walk, what if Motorists beat the system and simply drive in the bus lane? There is currently no effective deterrent from doing so and government is opposed to introducing one.

Or 2 or 3 motorists just drive through the red light and block the bus from entering the lane from the bus gate as planned.

punisher5112

Only way for this to work is enforcement of laws in place already, double red lines, more clearway, CCTC and actual fines just like London for example....

tom1ie

punisher5112 wrote: »

Only way for this to work is enforcement of laws in place already, double red lines, more clearway, CCTC and actual fines just like London for example....

Has Eamon mentioned anything in ANPR cameras?
Sean Ross was dead against them but I would hope Eamon is a bit more pro active.

loyatemu

Walker recommended making the route changes in a one go.

Instead we're getting 3 years of confusing chaos:

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1321847665685049344

ITV2

even do it over a 4 week period or during the summer months not drag it out for years. so looking forward to the many many many questions from the public.

Spanish Eyes

This is really dragging out now, probably because with Covid and those WFH the PT aspect is not so critical now. But with reduced capacity during lockdowns it is still a big issue.

Anyway, could someone explain to me the reluctance to use ANPR for breaches of bus lanes, red lights etc. I suppose there is a row going on about who will enforce it or something. Get it done.

Seth Brundle

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Anyway, could someone explain to me the reluctance to use ANPR for breaches of bus lanes, red lights etc. I suppose there is a row going on about who will enforce it or something. Get it done.

My understanding was that the Dept of Justice didn't want law enforcement moving to bodies that weren't as important as them (despite that the D. of J. aren't interested in bus lane enforcement).

Even the NTA and TII had to pay the gardai to do their job and enforce the College Green Bus Corridor...
https://www.dublininquirer.com/2020/07/15/as-agencies-pay-gardai-to-police-transport-matters-some-councillors-call-for-more-transparency

AlmightyCushion

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

This is really dragging out now, probably because with Covid and those WFH the PT aspect is not so critical now. But with reduced capacity during lockdowns it is still a big issue.

Now would be the perfect time to do a big bang approach. Due to Covid and WFH, bus journeys and the amount of people using the bus service are way down. A major change now will inconvenience a lot less people and gives plenty more time to figure out how their usual journeys will change.

dublinman1990

Ah here. 3 years is way too long to get this new network implemented in Dublin.

That yellow table for the earliest/target launch of the routes is going to be very confusing to me & to other people when the new routes do get launched in their towns & villages within the GDA. The yellow table is also displaying the routes with their old proposed route numbers from the previous network redesign proposals for Dublin meaning they are not displaying the latest ones that were shown from the final network redesign report. It could be changed overtime to reflect the actual route numbers shown from the final report but it's still looks to be a complete shambles from the NTA's pov.

Peregrine

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Ah here. 3 years is way too long to get this new network implemented in Dublin.

That yellow table for the earliest/target launch of the routes is going to be very confusing to me & to other people when the new routes do get launched in their towns & villages within the GDA. The yellow table is also displaying the routes with their old proposed route numbers from the previous network redesign proposals for Dublin meaning they are not displaying the latest ones that were shown from the final network redesign report. It could be changed overtime to reflect the actual route numbers shown from the final report but it's still looks to be a complete shambles from the NTA's pov.

I agree that it's confusing but they're internal NTA documents that weren't published. I would imagine a more user friendly guide will be made available for public viewing.

They're from May so it's likely those routes were renamed after that.

CatInABox

I see that they're starting with the easy routes first, with the H spine requiring basically no changes whatsoever.

Yes, I'm still bitter about no improvement here.

cgcsb

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

This is really dragging out now, probably because with Covid and those WFH the PT aspect is not so critical now. But with reduced capacity during lockdowns it is still a big issue.

Anyway, could someone explain to me the reluctance to use ANPR for breaches of bus lanes, red lights etc. I suppose there is a row going on about who will enforce it or something. Get it done.

Can you imagine all the 'I pay road tax' types writing to their TDs about their fines? It's easier to enforce long journey times on bus passengers. The path of least resistance gets crapped on typically.

VonLuck

It's actually 4 years (and a bit), not 3. Apparently works starting today (according to that Twitter post) and finishing in December 2024. Absolute madness.

GT89

loyatemu wrote: »

Walker recommended making the route changes in a one go.

Instead we're getting 3 years of confusing chaos:

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1321847665685049344

I can't help but think the objective of having the implementation over such a long period of time is to kick the can down the road and possibly delay and/or renege on certain elements of the project.

punisher5112

How will it all work with the new cycling poles, kerbs and lanes and now one way roads and complete changes to likes of fun laoghaire and Dundrum....

MJohnston

punisher5112 wrote: »

How will it all work with the new cycling poles, kerbs and lanes and now one way roads and complete changes to likes of fun laoghaire and Dundrum....

The coastal mobility route has a parallel route so no issue there.

GT89

punisher5112 wrote: »

How will it all work with the new cycling poles, kerbs and lanes and now one way roads and complete changes to likes of fun laoghaire and Dundrum....

To be fair the new cycle lanes in Dun Laoghaire don't really have much affect on buses. Dundrum on the other hand is a disaster for buses especially the 14.

donvito99

punisher5112 wrote: »

So like Rathgar road into rathmines for example and it never works.

I don't think that's switched on. The one inbound to Terenure on the Templeogue Rd is though.

Victor

donvito99 wrote: »

I don't think that's switched on. The one inbound to Terenure on the Templeogue Rd is though.

I don't believe the Rathgar Road one inbound or the Swan Centre one outbound have ever been turned on.

punisher5112

donvito99 wrote: »

I don't think that's switched on. The one inbound to Terenure on the Templeogue Rd is though.

Always lit, never changes.
Also light in rathmines outbound of city at bus stop.

Qrt

punisher5112 wrote: »

Always lit, never changes.
Also light in rathmines outbound of city at bus stop.

The one on the N81 heading towards town at the M50 Junction works. Saw it in action a few years ago. I was amazed.

donvito99

punisher5112 wrote: »

Always lit, never changes.
Also light in rathmines outbound of city at bus stop.

So how is it that something cannot work when it has never actually been in operation?

punisher5112

donvito99 wrote: »

So how is it that something cannot work when it has never actually been in operation?

It was years ago, many moons actually....

The lights are there, even replaced with lovely new fittings and they just stay on green.

Its bizarre that these measures were put in place to allow a bus out and give the bus space.... Ah sure switch it off someone surely will let the bus out.... Eh no most race to get in front and block the bus.

Peregrine

CatInABox wrote: »

I see that they're starting with the easy routes first, with the H spine requiring basically no changes whatsoever.

Yes, I'm still bitter about no improvement here.

Yep. Although, they think G is actually easier than H when compared against these factors.



Here's a sample implementation timeline:

GT89

They should look at making all the spine routes BRT in my opinion

L1011

GT89 wrote: »

They should look at making all the spine routes BRT in my opinion

Never going to happen. Cost of BRT is high enough that we'd just go Luas. BRT rarely happens in cities with trams

At the very start of this I did say the acceptance of disruption and garden CPOs should have led to a re-evaluation of Luas Line E, as it was nixed for those reasons primarily

None of the proposed bus priority works on that corridor are wasted though should they ever resurrect the Luas proposal

GT89

L1011 wrote: »

Never going to happen. Cost of BRT is high enough that we'd just go Luas. BRT rarely happens in cities with trams

At the very start of this I did say the acceptance of disruption and garden CPOs should have led to a re-evaluation of Luas Line E, as it was nixed for those reasons primarily

None of the proposed bus priority works on that corridor are wasted though should they ever resurrect the Luas proposal

The main cost would be putting in the bus lanes which are planned anyway under bc and improving the bus stops to accommodate articulated vehicles.

Loads of cities across Europe have BRT like bus systems operating alongside trams. Ok they don't strictly speaking brand themselves as BRT but they use articulated buses with all doors opening at stops. London for example had a number of BRT style routes until the disastrous NBFL/LT types replaced the bendybuses.

Contrary to the opinion of some these buses were actually popular with bus users as dwell times were quick and it was easy to board and disembark they were removed because Boris Johnson pandered to cycling lobby groups and bus users suffered.

Improving bus stops to cater for articulated buses would be far preferable to continuing to run double decker vehicles with lower capacities and higher dwell times.

L1011

Bendibuses alone != BRT