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Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

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    #392
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    Feck sake, supposed to be getting my inverter installed today. Took day off to ensure I was here when it was being done.


    Just got a call from installer to say they can't install due to waiting for a "firmware upgrade"

    I wouldn't mind, only I called them 3 times on Friday to confirm what time they were due to arrive today at, and was told each time they would ring back to confirm.

    I smell Bs in that excuse.

    2nd time they have done this, not best pleased


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    #393
    air
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭air


    GaryCocs wrote: »
    If the slope in garden was ok is there any reason I could mount them low to the ground, pretty much flat on the grass? Or even better dig them flush in :D

    Anything less than 15 degrees and you'll have to clean them.
    Plus your winter production would be awful.


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    #394
    randombar
    Registered Users Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭randombar


    air wrote: »
    Anything less than 15 degrees and you'll have to clean them.
    Plus your winter production would be awful.


    I think the slope itself is 30 to 40 degrees. I'm wondering if I can just lay them on the grass (Obviously on the brackets etc) rather than having them a couple of feet up off the ground.


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    #395
    air
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭air


    Oh that would be fine once you keep the grass cut around them and they're securely fixed to Terra Firma obviously!


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    #396
    air
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭air


    Silent Running wrote: »
    You wouldn't need planning as it's a temporary structure. Some ground mount systems just require big concrete feet to hold them down, no digging and pouring concrete. The angle can be set to the optimum, unlike a roof mount, and sun tracking is also a possibility.

    You need planning for anything over 12sqm. There's an exemption up to 50sqm (IIRC) for commercial premises.
    Tracking makes little economic sense. A simple manual tilt adjustment would be as much as I would consider personally


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    #397
    randombar
    Registered Users Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭randombar


    air wrote: »
    You need planning for anything over 12sqm. There's an exemption up to 50sqm (IIRC) for commercial premises.
    Tracking makes little economic sense. A simple manual tilt adjustment would be as much as I would consider personally

    What range would you be looking at for the manual tilt?


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    #398
    air
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭air


    Maybe 30 to 60degrees or something similar.
    If you look up the optimal angle for your location on PVGIS for both mid summer and mid winter those would be the limits to aim for.
    I wouldn't fuss about it too much though if it made the mechanicals unnecessarily complex. 30/45/60 would do fine.


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    #399
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,515 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Silent Running wrote: »
    You wouldn't need planning as it's a temporary structure. Some ground mount systems just require big concrete feet to hold them down, no digging and pouring concrete. The angle can be set to the optimum, unlike a roof mount, and sun tracking is also a possibility.

    That's incorrect information.

    1. There's no such thing as Temp Structures in Planning.
    2. The Solar array has its own exemption limits that must be adhered to.


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    #400
    randombar
    Registered Users Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭randombar


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    Feck sake, supposed to be getting my inverter installed today. Took day off to ensure I was here when it was being done.


    Just got a call from installer to say they can't install due to waiting for a "firmware upgrade"

    I wouldn't mind, only I called them 3 times on Friday to confirm what time they were due to arrive today at, and was told each time they would ring back to confirm.

    I smell Bs in that excuse.

    2nd time they have done this, not best pleased

    Any update? Does sound like the dog ate my homework, I don't know solar but I know software and older firmware can be upgraded. Can't they just install with the old firmware and upgrade later?


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    #401
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    GaryCocs wrote: »
    Any update? Does sound like the dog ate my homework, I don't know solar but I know software and older firmware can be upgraded. Can't they just install with the old firmware and upgrade later?

    Spoke to them today, the issue I think is related to a bug in the firmware, which restrict the effeceincy over winter. Didn't get the full details, was supposed to ring them back at 2 o clock but work took over.

    Think they are being sincere to be honest, offering to pay for my lost time.


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    #402
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,891 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    I'd love to get a quote for just a battery installed under the PV grant scheme. I have solar PV already. The grant for the battery install is €1,000 and a decent 2.4kWh Li-ion battery retails for about €980+VAT from reputable solar retailers / wholesalers

    I would like to have the battery installed on the AC side, so it would be completely independent of my current PV install

    Any idea of what money I am looking at? Hardware and install costs?


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    #403
    air
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭air


    unkel wrote: »
    I'd love to get a quote for just a battery installed under the PV grant scheme. I have solar PV already. The grant for the battery install is €1,000 and a decent 2.4kWh Li-ion battery retails for about €980+VAT from reputable solar retailers / wholesalers

    I would like to have the battery installed on the AC side, so it would be completely independent of my current PV install

    Any idea of what money I am looking at? Hardware and install costs?

    Are you looking at the cost of a battery module or a battery module plus controller?
    If it's AC coupled it needs a controller which is effectively a second inverter.

    Why don't you get a few quotes?


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    #404
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,891 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    air wrote: »
    Are you looking at the cost of a battery module or a battery module plus controller?
    If it's AC coupled it needs a controller which is effectively a second inverter.

    Total installed cost. So yes, battery + controller + install costs -/- grant
    air wrote: »
    Why don't you get a few quotes?

    Aye that is my next step. But if someone on here has any rough idea of total cost to me, that would help. If total cost to me is under a grand, I might consider it. If it is like two grand, I wouldn't want to waste any installers time by getting a quote that I will go through with


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    #405
    air
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭air


    You're quoting 980+ VAT though, which is only the cost of the battery module as I understand it?
    I'd imagine you'd do well to get it installed for €1k cost to yourself to be honest and I think the economics are very poor unless you're also using it to help avail of the additional €1600 of grant aid for the PV element that's associated with it.


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    #406
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,891 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    air wrote: »
    You're quoting 980+ VAT though, which is only the cost of the battery module as I understand it?

    Yes, you understand it correctly. Just looked it up and the battery has come down to 950 + VAT
    air wrote: »
    I'd imagine you'd do well to get it installed for €1k cost to yourself to be honest and I think the economics are very poor

    For €1k net to me I would consider it. At that rate it is basically half price. If all I would use it for is load up with 8c night rate and use at 16c day rate every day, it would save €70 per year (365 days times (0.16 - 0.08) * 2.4kWh). If the saving from using it to store access solar during the day (and use it at night before night rate kicks in) is another (very modest) €70 per year, then payback all of a sudden is only about 7 years. I can live with that!


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    #407
    air
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭air


    Fair enough. Not a great financial proposition even at that though.
    Plus you'd want to install a good bit more PV yourself in order to have much of a chance of charging it up from solar on any kind of regular basis.
    Would you not be tempted to just get PV + battery under the grant altogether?
    I'm assuming you haven't registered your existing PV with ESB.


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    #408
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,891 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    air wrote: »
    you'd want to install a good bit more PV yourself in order to have much of a chance of charging it up from solar on any kind of regular basis.

    What makes you say that? I have 1.65kwp (S+W), which would fill up a 2.4kWh battery 3 times on a good day. Granted it would not fill it up on a bad day. The figure of €70 saving per year I plucked out of the air is extremely low though. I would also attach a value of a few hundred quid on a battery system for gimmick reasons :)
    air wrote: »
    Would you not be tempted to just get PV + battery under the grant altogether?

    I would, but I have very little space left on my main roof (already have 3 * velux swindow and 40 * solar tubes). Also technically I would need to apply for planning permission if I installed any more panels
    air wrote: »
    I'm assuming you haven't registered your existing PV with ESB.

    Why would anyone register their PV with ESB? I thought that was only done way back when, when people were getting money back for exporting to the grid?


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    #409
    air
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭air


    I believe it's a requirement of ESB Networks that they be notified of any generating equipment that is connected to the network.
    See here: https://www.esbnetworks.ie/docs/default-source/publications/conditions-governing-connection-and-operation-of-micro-generation-policy.pdf

    The fact that your array is so small and split I would think that it would not fill the battery very often, especially given your very high base load.
    Gadget and green factor is acknowledged but the hardware is effectively worthless after 7-10 years so there's no capital return other than any savings generated. I don't have high hopes for the life expectancy of the lithium packs being marketed for grid storage given the discharge levels used and the quality of the cells in some of them.
    There are already plenty of "spares and repairs" packs coming up on Ebay UK that have partially failed.


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    #410
    phester28
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭phester28


    Its a regulatory thing which attempts to be a safety thing. Any good grid tie inverter prevents a back feed. If the grid tie is of the Irish spec then all is well there. Reg with the esb is a belts and braces thing as any ESB worker will short any wires with a buss-bar before attempting to work on them.


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    #411
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    I dont support this party, can't even remember contacting him but I must have at one stage


    You contacted us previously in regard to environmental issues.

    We would like to update you in regard to the Sinn Féin Microgeneration Support Scheme Bill which will come before the Dáil this coming Tuesday 27th November.

    This bill aims to establish a feed-in tariff for electricity exported to the grid from small scale generation. We hope all parties can support the bill as we believe that small scale generation must form part of the wide portfolio of renewable energy sources we need going forward.

    If you would like to receive further contact from us and our environmental policies please let us know.

    Is mise le meas,

    Brian Stanley TD


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    #412
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    I thought this thread was about quotes !!!


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    #413
    KAGY
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭KAGY


    Brecken Tart Newscast wrote: »
    I thought this thread was about quotes !!!

    €12800 from active8 {down from 20k+ with their " discounts " and grant) 13 panel, 4kWp, 5kWhr battery. ground mount (added 2k to roof install)
    My own calcs suggest 21 years payback at current prices, 15 years payback if elec prices increase 5% per year neglecting the fact I have night rate.


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    #414
    KAGY
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭KAGY


    Follow up q: does anyone know if the mounting system need to be certified for the grant, I.e. will there be problems if I design and build a ground mount system myself


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    #415
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    KAGY wrote: »
    €12800 from active8 {down from 20k+ with their " discounts " and grant) 13 panel, 4kWp, 5kWhr battery. ground mount (added 2k to roof install)
    My own calcs suggest 21 years payback at current prices, 15 years payback if elec prices increase 5% per year neglecting the fact I have night rate.

    So, 13k nearly, after tax and after grant for 4kw solar with a 5kwh battery ?

    The faxt that they even dared.to quote you 20k in the first place, never mind that the quote above is woefull, wiyod make me steer clear of them.


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    #416
    randombar
    Registered Users Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭randombar


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    So, 13k nearly, after tax and after grant for 4kw solar with a 5kwh battery ?

    The faxt that they even dared.to quote you 20k in the first place, never mind that the quote above is woefull, wiyod make me steer clear of them.

    Don't forget the sign you've to put up!!


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    #417
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    KCross & UNKLE we’ll leave it there thanks


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    #418
    KAGY
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭KAGY


    GaryCocs wrote: »
    Don't forget the sign you've to put up!!

    But, but, if I get 8 ppl to purchase I get the system fo' free


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    #419
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    KAGY wrote: »
    But, but, if I get 8 ppl to purchase I get the system fo' free

    I genuinely thing seai should he doing something to reign installers who are overcharging.

    Some guideline pricing in the seai website for example,.or outlawing of hard sell tactics.


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    #420
    KAGY
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭KAGY


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    I genuinely thing seai should he doing something to reign installers who are overcharging.

    Some guideline pricing in the seai website for example,.or outlawing of hard sell tactics.

    Yeah, I'm lucky I could do the maths (see kids, sum of geometric series is used in the real world).
    TBF, they didn't lie, the figures quoted for annual generation tallied with pvgis
    Not sure you could ban hard selling though, but like everything, do a bit of research first.


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    #421
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,891 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    air wrote: »
    You're quoting 980+ VAT though, which is only the cost of the battery module as I understand it?
    I'd imagine you'd do well to get it installed for €1k cost to yourself to be honest

    It looks like an easy job. What you need for an AC attached battery storage solution (very easy to extend with multiple batteries, but I would start with one):

    -SoFar ME 3000SP energy storage inverter
    -One Pylontech 2.4kWh lithium battery
    -All necessary CT clamps and comms and power cables

    Total cost of above GBP1299 + VAT

    Linky


    DIY install, apart from mounting the equipment, the install should take well under an hour. You don't need to touch your consumer unit

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkTPaP49Jeo


    and the clamps:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFBrwY2K-rc


    Controlled via an Android app

    I will be getting some quotes for this from SEAI approved installers in the next few months, but surely they should not go over the €2k before grant by much (meaning net just a bit over €1k)?

    I'll update here once I get a few quotes


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