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Changing Covid situation- how do you plan for 2021 races

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    #122
    dpforce
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭dpforce


    Do you really believe that we will go from Level5 to Level1 in two months? Level 1 allows up to 200 people to attend organized outdoor events. That definitely looks like IM weekend in Cork....


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    #123
    Kurt_Godel.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 376 ✭✭Kurt_Godel.


    dpforce wrote: »
    There is a zero change of any race going ahead this year. Current restrictions most likely will be in place till end of June. This year is written off.

    Thats an overly pessimistic view IMO. Countries with a more advanced vaccine program than ours are already planning races- Israel for instance will have triathlon races from April. A passport system for those inoculated is the way forward.

    Whatever about large-scale IM races, it was possible to hold smaller scale Tri's last summer in Ireland, under social distance guidelines. This summer, we will have the added protection of the vaccine rollout.


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    #124
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    Kurt_Godel. wrote: »
    Thats an overly pessimistic view IMO. Countries with a more advanced vaccine program than ours are already planning races- Israel for instance will have triathlon races from April. A passport system for those inoculated is the way forward.

    Whatever about large-scale IM races, it was possible to hold smaller scale Tri's last summer in Ireland, under social distance guidelines. This summer, we will have the added protection of the vaccine rollout.

    so you are saying us older people should have an racing advantage as we will get vaccinated earlier. sounds fair to me...


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    #125
    Kurt_Godel.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 376 ✭✭Kurt_Godel.


    Just one in a thousand Irish covid transmissions is traced to outdoor contact

    There's no scientific reason for continuing a ban on outdoor sports, hopefully this report gets acted upon quickly by our politicians. NEPHT have been selling us snake oil for long enough.


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    #126
    zico10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    Kurt, can you give me the name of a country you think has handled the pandemic better than Ireland?
    The below is the info pertaining to parkruns in the twenty-two countries that hold them. All bar Russia (which seems to be the same as New Zealand and Australia), translate as “All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).”

    We are not the only nation that has restricted its citizens from participating in their hobbies.

    Australia: For country specific information around events in this country, please see here.j

    Canada: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

    Denmark: Alle parkrun-begivenheder i Danmark er i øjeblikket aflyst grundet COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

    Eswatini: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

    Finland: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

    France: Tous les événements parkrun dans ce pays sont actuellement suspendus en raison de COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

    Germany: Alle parkrun-Veranstaltungen in diesem Land sind derzeit aufgrund von COVID-19 (Coronavirus) ausgesetzt.

    Italy: Tutti gli eventi parkrun in questo paese sono attualmente sospesi a causa del COVID-19 (Coronavirus).!

    Japan: 新型コロナウイルスへの対応と、parkrunイベントへの影響は、

    Malaysia: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

    Namibia: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

    Netherlands: Alle parkrun-evenementen in dit land zijn opgeschort als gevolg van COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

    New Zealand: For country specific information around events in this country, please see here.

    Norway: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

    Poland: Wszystkie spotkania parkrun są obecnie zawieszone z związku z zagrożeniem koronawirusem.

    Russia: Информацию о ситуации с паркранами на территории России, можно получить тут.

    Singapore: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

    South Africa: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

    Sweden: Alla parkrun-event i det här landet är för tillfället inställda på grund av COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

    United Kingdom: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

    USA: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).
    https://www.parkrun.com/countries/


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    #127
    Kurt_Godel.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 376 ✭✭Kurt_Godel.


    zico10 wrote: »
    Kurt, can you give me the name of a country you think has handled the pandemic better than Ireland?
    The below is the info pertaining to parkruns in the twenty-two countries that hold them. All bar Russia (which seems to be the same as New Zealand and Australia), translate as “All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).”

    We are not the only nation that has restricted its citizens from participating in their hobbies.

    Of Western nations, Israel is the obvious model country. They are a scientifically adept country with a history of emergency management, though. Closer to home, England. Enlightened self-interest, or as Boris put it "Capitalism and greed". I've no doubt you could debate against what either of those countries did, or didn't do.

    Right now, we can't have kids doing outdoor sports, and there's no scientific basis for that beyond "one covid death isn't worth the risk", to paraphrase the NEPHT mantra. We should open up the outdoors immediately to group sports, based on current science. Mainly for the sake of long-term kids health, but also (selfishly in the context of this thread) so for everyone else can get on with life.


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    #128
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Kurt_Godel. wrote: »
    Just one in a thousand Irish covid transmissions is traced to outdoor contact

    There's no scientific reason for continuing a ban on outdoor sports, hopefully this report gets acted upon quickly by our politicians. NEPHT have been selling us snake oil for long enough.

    The outdoor events/gatherings that have happened are safe.
    Totally different statement to all outdoor events are safe.


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    #129
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Kurt_Godel. wrote: »
    Of Western nations, Israel is the obvious model country. They are a scientifically adept country with a history of emergency management, though. Closer to home, England. Enlightened self-interest, or as Boris put it "Capitalism and greed". I've no doubt you could debate against what either of those countries did, or didn't do.

    Hand on a month or two before extolling the successes in England.


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    #130
    Kurt_Godel.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 376 ✭✭Kurt_Godel.


    tunney wrote: »
    Hand on a month or two before extolling the successes in England.

    We're just going down a rabbit hole bringing specific countries, or what Parkrun do, or what Triathlon Israel do. They can be debated for and against all night.

    What's not up for debate is the science from these outdoor transmission studies. There are safe ways to minimise covid spread and allow training/games/races. In Ireland. Today.


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    #131
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

    What's not up for debate is the science from these outdoor transmission studies.

    Agreed.
    Kurt_Godel. wrote: »
    There are safe ways to minimise covid spread and allow training/games/races. In Ireland. Today.

    The very definition of the Hasty Generalisation Fallacy.

    What was shown that with little to no outdoor gatherings then there has been little to no transmission. That is the only fact.

    Jumping from that to "Park runs won't transmit it" and "Croke park is outdoors, lets have 80k at matches" is a bit of a leap into the, literally, unknown.

    Even Israel has limits on the numbers of outdoors gatherings.


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    #132
    Kurt_Godel.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 376 ✭✭Kurt_Godel.


    Read the article Tunney, and stick to the topic. No one is talking about crowds in Croke park.

    Races will have to change, probably become smaller in scale, and "put appropriate evidence-based mitigations in place".


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    #133
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Kurt_Godel. wrote: »
    Read the article Tunney, and stick to the topic. No one is talking about crowds in Croke park.

    Races will have to change, probably become smaller in scale, and "put appropriate evidence-based mitigations in place".

    What are the risk factors in races?
    How will races change to be safe?

    How much does the spread of aerosols change at peak exertion versus at rest or walking?


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    #134
    Kurt_Godel.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 376 ✭✭Kurt_Godel.


    tunney wrote: »
    What are the risk factors in races?
    How will races change to be safe?

    How much does the spread of aerosols change at peak exertion versus at rest or walking?

    Same as last year; no indoor gathering, no gathering for prize giving, staggered starts, no goody bags.

    I've no idea if exertion makes any statistical difference. You and I would be poor test subjects :P


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    #135
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    zico10 wrote: »
    Kurt, can you give me the name of a country you think has handled the pandemic better than Ireland?
    The below is the info pertaining to parkruns in the twenty-two countries that hold them. All bar Russia (which seems to be the same as New Zealand and Australia), translate as “All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).”

    We are not the only nation that has restricted its citizens from participating in their hobbies.



    https://www.parkrun.com/countries/




    i understand what you are saying, but the question is how much sense it does make to not allow people to play golf or tennis for instance if you take the precautions i.e. not going through buildings and just play and leave .
    many countries do run races with very small waves races poland italy uk there is triathlons in taiwan .
    ironman new zealand had 800 people racing dub i think 1300 challenge miami 1300.

    i agree the way kurt writes his post is extremely biased but i think the evidence we have so far is that outdoor sports that are managed are fairly save.
    and yes i do not think for a second that my local park run should be going ahead as there is a lot of out and back there , but there is locations in dublin where you could do it very safely. and many countries in europe do run races. but i also think this is more than a volunttery organisation should have to deal with

    i guess we would agree if irleand had closed its borders and had allowed outdoor events ireland would be in a better state so dam not sure you can say ireland did very well, neither did it do badly , i undsertand int not that easy to close border to uk. i read the other day 90 percent of covid cases in germany are the british mutation so i guess its fair to say as europe we really have failed the last few month in most aspects.

    but i do think we can agree that while indoor sports should not be allowed right now we should consider more how to allow more outside sport and restrictions need to be more evidence based and focus on the basis i.e. clean your hands when you enter the supermarket I had a look the other day out of 23 only 13 disinfected their hands.

    i guess at the end of the day its similar to training do the basics right , and don't worry to much on the 1 %er and outdoor sport would seem to be more a 1 percenter or lets say more a super shoes, than the basics. and i would say to disinfect the hands when you enter the supermarket is a basic we should focus more on. and we would be better off focusing more on that and make sure supermarkets fill the liquid up in time and make sure there dispenser work. tesco sandy mount could not manage to get the one at the exit working for 3 weeks...

    at the same time i don't have to go running saturday at 11 am when the everybody is walking , i prefer to go running at 9 pm when i can run in peace.


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    #136
    Kurt_Godel.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 376 ✭✭Kurt_Godel.


    peter kern wrote: »
    i agree the way kurt writes his post is extremely biased

    Fair point there was no purpose in me having a dig at NEPHT. Sorry if I riled anyone, I know people are wound up enough. I just find it hard to make a point using Reason alone at the moment, so much policy seems to be driven by reaction rather than action (IMO).


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    #137
    griffin100
    Registered Users Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭griffin100


    Kurt_Godel. wrote: »
    Fair point there was no purpose in me having a dig at NEPHT. Sorry if I riled anyone, I know people are wound up enough. I just find it hard to make a point using Reason alone at the moment, so much policy seems to be driven by reaction rather than action (IMO).

    I agree on this bit. The Government really have lost their way after a good start. Opening up for December was shambolic and was based on emotion rather than science. I can understand why it was done but you can't then run for cover when the case numbers start to rise as they did after Christmas. Since then there has been precious litter leadership or strategic thinking. There's an awful lot being bet on the vaccines which is fine, but we may be looking at annual vaccinations or more and Government need to plan for those sorts of long term scenarios. If actually catching Covid is only thought to give you 6 months immunity, then not much more can be expected from the vaccines (although I appreciate this 6 month limit is a bit arbitrary). We are going to have to live with this for a long time.


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    #138
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    IM Austria has been postponed to September, they are offering the option to do then, defer to next year, or take IM credit that lasts until 2024

    Not sure I see pools open much this year so would not fancy an IM with two years out of the pool.


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    #139
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    tunney wrote: »
    IM Austria has been postponed to September, they are offering the option to do then, defer to next year, or take IM credit that lasts until 2024

    Not sure I see pools open much this year so would not fancy an IM with two years out of the pool.

    Frankfurt and Switzerland moved too. I, for one, am SHOCKED. I expected them to go ahead as planned.


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    #140
    zico10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    tunney wrote: »
    IM Austria has been postponed to September, they are offering the option to do then, defer to next year, or take IM credit that lasts until 2024

    I got those options for Hamburg which was supposed to take place on 6th June. I went for the voucher, but it can only be used for Ironman events in Germany. It would be nice if it could be used for any race in Europe, but that’s only a small gripe. And overall, I must say I was quite pleased with the choices Ironman gave me. Whether I can work up the enthusiasm for an Ironman in the next 3 years remains to be seen, but that’s hardly Ironman’s fault.


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    #141
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    zico10 wrote: »
    I got those options for Hamburg which was supposed to take place on 6th June. I went for the voucher, but it can only be used for Ironman events in Germany. It would be nice if it could be used for any race in Europe, but that’s only a small gripe. And overall, I must say I was quite pleased with the choices Ironman gave me. Whether I can work up the enthusiasm for an Ironman in the next 3 years remains to be seen, but that’s hardly Ironman’s fault.

    Thanks for pointing that out, hadn't noticed that restriction. Even though on re-reading it is as clear as day.


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    #142
    zico10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    tunney wrote: »
    Thanks for pointing that out, hadn't noticed that restriction. Even though on re-reading it is as clear as day.

    Oh, I didn’t know your voucher was restricted. I thought with fewer events in Austria, you might have had the option to use it anywhere.


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    #143
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    zico10 wrote: »
    I got those options for Hamburg which was supposed to take place on 6th June. I went for the voucher, but it can only be used for Ironman events in Germany. It would be nice if it could be used for any race in Europe, but that’s only a small gripe. And overall, I must say I was quite pleased with the choices Ironman gave me. Whether I can work up the enthusiasm for an Ironman in the next 3 years remains to be seen, but that’s hardly Ironman’s fault.[/QUOTE]
    one would think that a 12500 euro bike at home used in 2 races . would kick one in the b...s at least once a week to use it

    one a more serious question would you consider selling your pro missile bars as i might have somebody interested in them.
    and potentially your disc wheel if i can manipulate his brain enough whats good for him.


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    #144
    zico10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    PX was only used in one race, Peter. But it’ll have another day in the sun at some point.

    No interest in selling any of my bits and bobs, I’m afraid. They’re worth a lot more to me than the few hundred euro I’d get for them. Maybe ask me again in 5 years.


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    #145
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    IronMan sent Vitoria participants a mail today offering them to option to do a bike / run. Wonder is it an insurance problem with insurers knowing people haven't had much opportunity to swim in last year.


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    #146
    rodriquez
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭rodriquez


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    IronMan sent Vitoria participants a mail today offering them to option to do a bike / run. Wonder is it an insurance problem with insurers knowing people haven't had much opportunity to swim in last year.


    yea, I got that too - my first thought was more to do with the fact that they'll offer this rather than a refund or second deferral option


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    #147
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    IronMan sent Vitoria participants a mail today offering them to option to do a bike / run. Wonder is it an insurance problem with insurers knowing people haven't had much opportunity to swim in last year.

    I got that too for Austria. My thinking on it was that there will be people who would happily use their entry this year if except for the fact that they haven't swam. Why not get through some of them these year and be able to sell their slots for next year?


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    #148
    Yermander
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Yermander


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    IronMan sent Vitoria participants a mail today offering them to option to do a bike / run. Wonder is it an insurance problem with insurers knowing people haven't had much opportunity to swim in last year.

    A couple of club members received the same email for IM Cork too yesterday


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    #149
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    Yermander wrote: »
    A couple of club members received the same email for IM Cork too yesterday

    its an ironman europe decison so it would go the very least for every race in europe that is not franchised and i guess franchised races will do so as well . nobody has to use it but its available.


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    #150
    S_D
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭S_D


    What do people think of the latest easing of measures,.....is cork standing a better chance of going ahead?


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    #151
    Bertje14
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭Bertje14


    Most races will go ahead but it will be with restrictions i.e. no spectators and smaller races.


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