Changing Covid situation- how do you plan for 2021 races

StaggerLee

S_D wrote: »

yeah i've got a few now and i just want my money back and to start again fresh, two chances though

Depending on jurisdiction you can be entitled to a refund. Spain being one. IM don’t tell you this but if you ask for a refund and by law they have to - they will refund you.

S_D

StaggerLee wrote: »

Depending on jurisdiction you can be entitled to a refund. Spain being one. IM don’t tell you this but if you ask for a refund and by law they have to - they will refund you.

Is that just for races in Spain? Interesting to know, thanks

StaggerLee

S_D wrote: »

Is that just for races in Spain? Interesting to know, thanks

That’s right, races hosted in different countries have different laws. Worth checking with Ironman but have to ask. Races in a Spain allow for refund

Bertje14

I have booked Sheephaven last weekend of June & HOTW the week after (transfer from last year).

I think both of them won't go ahead at that time. Maybe later in the year.

Last year I got Celtic Warrior in. I can always do that again.

Hardman races are nearly sold out as they were the only one's that ran last year so not expecting a ticket there. Happy for him.

ChickenBalls

Seems like Triathlon Taren is still looking for his Ironman Cork money back too.
Don't expect a refund anytime soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGL3mi3CR5A

peter kern

ChickenBalls wrote: »

Seems like Triathlon Taren is still looking for his Ironman Cork money back too.
Don't expect a refund anytime soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGL3mi3CR5A

he seems to be looking for half his money back...

Kurt_Godel.

ChickenBalls wrote: »

Seems like Triathlon Taren is still looking for his Ironman Cork money back too.
Don't expect a refund anytime soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGL3mi3CR5A

His honesty is refreshing, basically acknowledging that people enter IM races aware of the restrictive refund policy. A good point is made that IM as a company doesn't really hold assets as such, its value is its brand, and not much else. Its business, and so long as people are willing to pay high prices to have their name aligned with that brand, IM will continue to make money (and it looks like that is their prime concern).

I have a degree of sympathy for entrants who probably won't be racing in Cork this year, but there was always a high likelihood they would be burned.

peter kern

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

His honesty is refreshing, basically acknowledging that people enter IM races aware of the restrictive refund policy. A good point is made that IM as a company doesn't really hold assets as such, its value is its brand, and not much else. Its business, and so long as people are willing to pay high prices to have their name aligned with that brand, IM will continue to make money (and it looks like that is their prime concern).

I have a degree of sympathy for entrants who probably won't be racing in Cork this year, but there was always a high likelihood they would be burned.

but it holds a lot of debt so it really needs the intrests free credits from the athletes. so in a way athletes will have to pay for this one way or another in the future. now or later .

RacoonQueen

Bertje14 wrote: »

I have booked Sheephaven last weekend of June & HOTW the week after (transfer from last year).

I think both of them won't go ahead at that time. Maybe later in the year.

Last year I got Celtic Warrior in. I can always do that again.

Hardman races are nearly sold out as they were the only one's that ran last year so not expecting a ticket there. Happy for him.

Metalman entries went up last week. I had entered that last year as my last hurrah so had considered going for it but with no idea when I can get back in a pool, the fact I'm really unfit and college work all through the summer it's not really realistic. No interest doing it just to get around.
Have cycled the metalman route a couple of times in my trips down to Waterford last year and the bike route is (mostly) fantastic. Has it all really the nice fast flat section thats hella boring, followed by the bumpy section along the coast. Very tough in a race I think as many might overcook themselves in the first half and be unprepared for the short bouts of climbing.

Dilbert75

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Metalman entries went up last week. I had entered that last year as my last hurrah so had considered going for it but with no idea when I can get back in a pool, the fact I'm really unfit and college work all through the summer it's not really realistic. No interest doing it just to get around.
Have cycled the metalman route a couple of times in my trips down to Waterford last year and the bike route is (mostly) fantastic. Has it all really the nice fast flat section thats hella boring, followed by the bumpy section along the coast. Very tough in a race I think as many might overcook themselves in the first half and be unprepared for the short bouts of climbing.

It sold out on Sunday. Had option of early entry but didn't take it. Swimming hasn't happened properly in well over a year.

Kurt_Godel.

I listened in to a zoom chat with Mike Reilly last night (IM announcer- "You Are An Ironman!"), he is expecting to come over for the IM in Cork, but discussed how Covid had affected IM worldwide. Some IM events are going ahead like IM New Zealand, but he can't travel to it, they are operating under strict Covid protocols so no expo/meal/prize ceremony. He mentioned some concern that some upcoming US IM events are now being cancelled/postponed, and said the organisation will have to adapt to this Covid era. Likely to be more events requiring a vaccine passport, more events on smaller self-contained circuits (mentioned a recent US triathlon which took place within a Nascar racetrack).

But things are difficult for large scale races, and for events like IM a lot of the buzz and bling around the races will have to be cut right back. Kona is going ahead by hook or crook though, Hawaii is open for tourism now with no quarantine.

Very nice guy and lovely stories to listen to, by the way.

tunney

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

I listened in to a zoom chat with Mike Reilly last night (IM announcer- "You Are An Ironman!"), he is expecting to come over for the IM in Cork, but discussed how Covid had affected IM worldwide. Some IM events are going ahead like IM New Zealand, but he can't travel to it, they are operating under strict Covid protocols so no expo/meal/prize ceremony. He mentioned some concern that some upcoming US IM events are now being cancelled/postponed, and said the organisation will have to adapt to this Covid era. Likely to be more events requiring a vaccine passport, more events on smaller self-contained circuits (mentioned a recent US triathlon which took place within a Nascar racetrack).

But things are difficult for large scale races, and for events like IM a lot of the buzz and bling around the races will have to be cut right back. Kona is going ahead by hook or crook though, Hawaii is open for tourism now with no quarantine.

Very nice guy and lovely stories to listen to, by the way.

LOL IM Cork 2021. Not happening in any form.

Kurt_Godel.

tunney wrote: »

LOL IM Cork 2021. Not happening in any form.

Yeah, I got the impression his expectation to be there was in large part due to his optimistic nature. In practical terms the main issue against Cork he said were the supporters- even if there was a way to socially distance the athletes, there would be no way to stop large crowds gathering along the town and Windmill hill.

Still- in the context of the thread title- Youghal is being planned for by the IM people at the moment.

tunney

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

Yeah, I got the impression his expectation to be there was in large part due to his optimistic nature. In practical terms the main issue against Cork he said were the supporters- even if there was a way to socially distance the athletes, there would be no way to stop large crowds gathering along the town and Windmill hill.

Still- in the context of the thread title- Youghal is being planned for by the IM people at the moment.

Hard to keep the cyclists two metres apart.

There won't be an IM in Europe before September and even then I doubt it.
Write this year off too.

Bertje14

yeah I am afraid Tunney is right. I keep working towards Sheephaven & Tyrone as what I don't want is that it does go ahead and that I am not ready. Had that last year in Celtic Warrior where I was "Olympic' ready but not 70.3. Suffered on the run and ended up walking last 2k.

I haven't swam in god knows how long so that will be a struggle this year if something would happen. Here is to hoping.

griffin100

I wouldn’t be too sure there won’t be an IM in Europe this year, but I agree it’s unlikely. Cork is definitely a no.

I’m already aware of 2021 tri’s in Ireland being cancelled. I’m also worried about Hardman Full as I’ve posted elsewhere, although late August is a long way off.

StaggerLee

IF (big if) we get a good batch of JJ vaccine in June - July there’s a chance for IM cork no?

Chris871

StaggerLee wrote: »

IF (big if) we get a good batch of JJ vaccine in June - July there’s a chance for IM cork no?

Can't see any way it goes ahead. Huge numbers registered for both events.
I'd love nothing more than to be wrong on this though.

dpforce

There is a zero change of any race going ahead this year. Current restrictions most likely will be in place till end of June. This year is written off.
Due to other priorities in my personal life I had to cancel it. Hopefully after three years I'll be in shape to sign for it again.

S_D

dpforce wrote: »

There is a zero change of any race going ahead this year. Current restrictions most likely will be in place till end of June. This year is written off.
Due to other priorities in my personal life I had to cancel it. Hopefully after three years I'll be in shape to sign for it again.

So because (Potentially) restrictions will be in place until the end of June, that means racing 100% wont be happening this YEAR?



I'm intrigued on your certainty ... Are you just hoping that's the case or do you know something no one else does?

dpforce

Do you really believe that we will go from Level5 to Level1 in two months? Level 1 allows up to 200 people to attend organized outdoor events. That definitely looks like IM weekend in Cork....

Kurt_Godel.

dpforce wrote: »

There is a zero change of any race going ahead this year. Current restrictions most likely will be in place till end of June. This year is written off.

Thats an overly pessimistic view IMO. Countries with a more advanced vaccine program than ours are already planning races- Israel for instance will have triathlon races from April. A passport system for those inoculated is the way forward.

Whatever about large-scale IM races, it was possible to hold smaller scale Tri's last summer in Ireland, under social distance guidelines. This summer, we will have the added protection of the vaccine rollout.

peter kern

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

Thats an overly pessimistic view IMO. Countries with a more advanced vaccine program than ours are already planning races- Israel for instance will have triathlon races from April. A passport system for those inoculated is the way forward.

Whatever about large-scale IM races, it was possible to hold smaller scale Tri's last summer in Ireland, under social distance guidelines. This summer, we will have the added protection of the vaccine rollout.

so you are saying us older people should have an racing advantage as we will get vaccinated earlier. sounds fair to me...

Kurt_Godel.

Just one in a thousand Irish covid transmissions is traced to outdoor contact

There's no scientific reason for continuing a ban on outdoor sports, hopefully this report gets acted upon quickly by our politicians. NEPHT have been selling us snake oil for long enough.

zico10

Kurt, can you give me the name of a country you think has handled the pandemic better than Ireland?
The below is the info pertaining to parkruns in the twenty-two countries that hold them. All bar Russia (which seems to be the same as New Zealand and Australia), translate as “All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).”

We are not the only nation that has restricted its citizens from participating in their hobbies.

Australia: For country specific information around events in this country, please see here.j

Canada: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

Denmark: Alle parkrun-begivenheder i Danmark er i øjeblikket aflyst grundet COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

Eswatini: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

Finland: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

France: Tous les événements parkrun dans ce pays sont actuellement suspendus en raison de COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

Germany: Alle parkrun-Veranstaltungen in diesem Land sind derzeit aufgrund von COVID-19 (Coronavirus) ausgesetzt.

Italy: Tutti gli eventi parkrun in questo paese sono attualmente sospesi a causa del COVID-19 (Coronavirus).!

Japan: 新型コロナウイルスへの対応と、parkrunイベントへの影響は、

Malaysia: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

Namibia: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

Netherlands: Alle parkrun-evenementen in dit land zijn opgeschort als gevolg van COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

New Zealand: For country specific information around events in this country, please see here.

Norway: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

Poland: Wszystkie spotkania parkrun są obecnie zawieszone z związku z zagrożeniem koronawirusem.

Russia: Информацию о ситуации с паркранами на территории России, можно получить тут.

Singapore: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

South Africa: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

Sweden: Alla parkrun-event i det här landet är för tillfället inställda på grund av COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

United Kingdom: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

USA: All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

https://www.parkrun.com/countries/

Kurt_Godel.

zico10 wrote: »

Kurt, can you give me the name of a country you think has handled the pandemic better than Ireland?
The below is the info pertaining to parkruns in the twenty-two countries that hold them. All bar Russia (which seems to be the same as New Zealand and Australia), translate as “All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).”

We are not the only nation that has restricted its citizens from participating in their hobbies.

Of Western nations, Israel is the obvious model country. They are a scientifically adept country with a history of emergency management, though. Closer to home, England. Enlightened self-interest, or as Boris put it "Capitalism and greed". I've no doubt you could debate against what either of those countries did, or didn't do.

Right now, we can't have kids doing outdoor sports, and there's no scientific basis for that beyond "one covid death isn't worth the risk", to paraphrase the NEPHT mantra. We should open up the outdoors immediately to group sports, based on current science. Mainly for the sake of long-term kids health, but also (selfishly in the context of this thread) so for everyone else can get on with life.

tunney

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

Just one in a thousand Irish covid transmissions is traced to outdoor contact

There's no scientific reason for continuing a ban on outdoor sports, hopefully this report gets acted upon quickly by our politicians. NEPHT have been selling us snake oil for long enough.

The outdoor events/gatherings that have happened are safe.
Totally different statement to all outdoor events are safe.

tunney

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

Of Western nations, Israel is the obvious model country. They are a scientifically adept country with a history of emergency management, though. Closer to home, England. Enlightened self-interest, or as Boris put it "Capitalism and greed". I've no doubt you could debate against what either of those countries did, or didn't do.

Hand on a month or two before extolling the successes in England.

Kurt_Godel.

tunney wrote: »

Hand on a month or two before extolling the successes in England.

We're just going down a rabbit hole bringing specific countries, or what Parkrun do, or what Triathlon Israel do. They can be debated for and against all night.

What's not up for debate is the science from these outdoor transmission studies. There are safe ways to minimise covid spread and allow training/games/races. In Ireland. Today.

tunney

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

What's not up for debate is the science from these outdoor transmission studies.

Agreed.

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

There are safe ways to minimise covid spread and allow training/games/races. In Ireland. Today.

The very definition of the Hasty Generalisation Fallacy.

What was shown that with little to no outdoor gatherings then there has been little to no transmission. That is the only fact.

Jumping from that to "Park runs won't transmit it" and "Croke park is outdoors, lets have 80k at matches" is a bit of a leap into the, literally, unknown.

Even Israel has limits on the numbers of outdoors gatherings.

Kurt_Godel.

Read the article Tunney, and stick to the topic. No one is talking about crowds in Croke park.

Races will have to change, probably become smaller in scale, and "put appropriate evidence-based mitigations in place".

tunney

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

Read the article Tunney, and stick to the topic. No one is talking about crowds in Croke park.

Races will have to change, probably become smaller in scale, and "put appropriate evidence-based mitigations in place".

What are the risk factors in races?
How will races change to be safe?

How much does the spread of aerosols change at peak exertion versus at rest or walking?

Kurt_Godel.

tunney wrote: »

What are the risk factors in races?
How will races change to be safe?

How much does the spread of aerosols change at peak exertion versus at rest or walking?

Same as last year; no indoor gathering, no gathering for prize giving, staggered starts, no goody bags.

I've no idea if exertion makes any statistical difference. You and I would be poor test subjects :P

peter kern

zico10 wrote: »

Kurt, can you give me the name of a country you think has handled the pandemic better than Ireland?
The below is the info pertaining to parkruns in the twenty-two countries that hold them. All bar Russia (which seems to be the same as New Zealand and Australia), translate as “All parkrun events in this country are currently suspended due to COVID-19 (Coronavirus).”

We are not the only nation that has restricted its citizens from participating in their hobbies.



https://www.parkrun.com/countries/

i understand what you are saying, but the question is how much sense it does make to not allow people to play golf or tennis for instance if you take the precautions i.e. not going through buildings and just play and leave .
many countries do run races with very small waves races poland italy uk there is triathlons in taiwan .
ironman new zealand had 800 people racing dub i think 1300 challenge miami 1300.

i agree the way kurt writes his post is extremely biased but i think the evidence we have so far is that outdoor sports that are managed are fairly save.
and yes i do not think for a second that my local park run should be going ahead as there is a lot of out and back there , but there is locations in dublin where you could do it very safely. and many countries in europe do run races. but i also think this is more than a volunttery organisation should have to deal with

i guess we would agree if irleand had closed its borders and had allowed outdoor events ireland would be in a better state so dam not sure you can say ireland did very well, neither did it do badly , i undsertand int not that easy to close border to uk. i read the other day 90 percent of covid cases in germany are the british mutation so i guess its fair to say as europe we really have failed the last few month in most aspects.

but i do think we can agree that while indoor sports should not be allowed right now we should consider more how to allow more outside sport and restrictions need to be more evidence based and focus on the basis i.e. clean your hands when you enter the supermarket I had a look the other day out of 23 only 13 disinfected their hands.

i guess at the end of the day its similar to training do the basics right , and don't worry to much on the 1 %er and outdoor sport would seem to be more a 1 percenter or lets say more a super shoes, than the basics. and i would say to disinfect the hands when you enter the supermarket is a basic we should focus more on. and we would be better off focusing more on that and make sure supermarkets fill the liquid up in time and make sure there dispenser work. tesco sandy mount could not manage to get the one at the exit working for 3 weeks...

at the same time i don't have to go running saturday at 11 am when the everybody is walking , i prefer to go running at 9 pm when i can run in peace.

Kurt_Godel.

peter kern wrote: »

i agree the way kurt writes his post is extremely biased

Fair point there was no purpose in me having a dig at NEPHT. Sorry if I riled anyone, I know people are wound up enough. I just find it hard to make a point using Reason alone at the moment, so much policy seems to be driven by reaction rather than action (IMO).

griffin100

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

Fair point there was no purpose in me having a dig at NEPHT. Sorry if I riled anyone, I know people are wound up enough. I just find it hard to make a point using Reason alone at the moment, so much policy seems to be driven by reaction rather than action (IMO).

I agree on this bit. The Government really have lost their way after a good start. Opening up for December was shambolic and was based on emotion rather than science. I can understand why it was done but you can't then run for cover when the case numbers start to rise as they did after Christmas. Since then there has been precious litter leadership or strategic thinking. There's an awful lot being bet on the vaccines which is fine, but we may be looking at annual vaccinations or more and Government need to plan for those sorts of long term scenarios. If actually catching Covid is only thought to give you 6 months immunity, then not much more can be expected from the vaccines (although I appreciate this 6 month limit is a bit arbitrary). We are going to have to live with this for a long time.

tunney

IM Austria has been postponed to September, they are offering the option to do then, defer to next year, or take IM credit that lasts until 2024

Not sure I see pools open much this year so would not fancy an IM with two years out of the pool.

RacoonQueen

tunney wrote: »

IM Austria has been postponed to September, they are offering the option to do then, defer to next year, or take IM credit that lasts until 2024

Not sure I see pools open much this year so would not fancy an IM with two years out of the pool.

Frankfurt and Switzerland moved too. I, for one, am SHOCKED. I expected them to go ahead as planned.

zico10

tunney wrote: »

IM Austria has been postponed to September, they are offering the option to do then, defer to next year, or take IM credit that lasts until 2024

I got those options for Hamburg which was supposed to take place on 6th June. I went for the voucher, but it can only be used for Ironman events in Germany. It would be nice if it could be used for any race in Europe, but that’s only a small gripe. And overall, I must say I was quite pleased with the choices Ironman gave me. Whether I can work up the enthusiasm for an Ironman in the next 3 years remains to be seen, but that’s hardly Ironman’s fault.

tunney

zico10 wrote: »

I got those options for Hamburg which was supposed to take place on 6th June. I went for the voucher, but it can only be used for Ironman events in Germany. It would be nice if it could be used for any race in Europe, but that’s only a small gripe. And overall, I must say I was quite pleased with the choices Ironman gave me. Whether I can work up the enthusiasm for an Ironman in the next 3 years remains to be seen, but that’s hardly Ironman’s fault.

Thanks for pointing that out, hadn't noticed that restriction. Even though on re-reading it is as clear as day.

zico10

tunney wrote: »

Thanks for pointing that out, hadn't noticed that restriction. Even though on re-reading it is as clear as day.

Oh, I didn’t know your voucher was restricted. I thought with fewer events in Austria, you might have had the option to use it anywhere.

peter kern

zico10 wrote: »

I got those options for Hamburg which was supposed to take place on 6th June. I went for the voucher, but it can only be used for Ironman events in Germany. It would be nice if it could be used for any race in Europe, but that’s only a small gripe. And overall, I must say I was quite pleased with the choices Ironman gave me. Whether I can work up the enthusiasm for an Ironman in the next 3 years remains to be seen, but that’s hardly Ironman’s fault.[/QUOTE]
one would think that a 12500 euro bike at home used in 2 races . would kick one in the b...s at least once a week to use it

one a more serious question would you consider selling your pro missile bars as i might have somebody interested in them.
and potentially your disc wheel if i can manipulate his brain enough whats good for him.

zico10

PX was only used in one race, Peter. But it’ll have another day in the sun at some point.

No interest in selling any of my bits and bobs, I’m afraid. They’re worth a lot more to me than the few hundred euro I’d get for them. Maybe ask me again in 5 years.

RacoonQueen

IronMan sent Vitoria participants a mail today offering them to option to do a bike / run. Wonder is it an insurance problem with insurers knowing people haven't had much opportunity to swim in last year.

rodriquez

RacoonQueen wrote: »

IronMan sent Vitoria participants a mail today offering them to option to do a bike / run. Wonder is it an insurance problem with insurers knowing people haven't had much opportunity to swim in last year.

yea, I got that too - my first thought was more to do with the fact that they'll offer this rather than a refund or second deferral option

tunney

RacoonQueen wrote: »

IronMan sent Vitoria participants a mail today offering them to option to do a bike / run. Wonder is it an insurance problem with insurers knowing people haven't had much opportunity to swim in last year.

I got that too for Austria. My thinking on it was that there will be people who would happily use their entry this year if except for the fact that they haven't swam. Why not get through some of them these year and be able to sell their slots for next year?

Yermander

RacoonQueen wrote: »

IronMan sent Vitoria participants a mail today offering them to option to do a bike / run. Wonder is it an insurance problem with insurers knowing people haven't had much opportunity to swim in last year.

A couple of club members received the same email for IM Cork too yesterday

peter kern

Yermander wrote: »

A couple of club members received the same email for IM Cork too yesterday

its an ironman europe decison so it would go the very least for every race in europe that is not franchised and i guess franchised races will do so as well . nobody has to use it but its available.

S_D

What do people think of the latest easing of measures,.....is cork standing a better chance of going ahead?

Bertje14

Most races will go ahead but it will be with restrictions i.e. no spectators and smaller races.