Armstrong Cup 2018-19

sodacat11 · 03-09-2018 7:21pm #1

I see that the fixtures are out for the coming season. http://www.chessleague.net/

I don't get why the same teams have to play each other in the same rounds every year. Why can't the fixtures be shuffled around? It is ridiculous that clubs which are geographically close to each other have to travel a longer distance to a neutral venue to play each other in the final round every year. e.g Rathmines v Benildus, Dublin Uni v Dublin, Dun Laoghaire v Gonzaga. Also, would it not make more sense to have Gonzaga "A"play title rivals Elm Mount or Dublin in the last round instead of lowly Balbriggan?
If the draw must be rigged then better to have teams likely to be close to each other playing in the final rounds? I understand that teams must be at home to teams they met away the previous year but surely with computers it wouldn't be too hard to have a more open draw and still make that possible?

Tim Harding · 04-09-2018 9:54am

Thanks for the link; I kept trying the old LCU site which still seems to be down, maybe permanently?

I see no dates are listed for matches yet, which is a bit strange, but maybe the idea is to let clubs negotiate a bit on that?
I hope that the later date of Easter in 2019 may enable the event to be completed earlier, maybe even in March.

I still don't understand why LCU some years ago switched to having only five rounds before Christmas, with no December matches. Was that at the request of clubs?

I agree there should be more transparency about how the draw is done. That is something that needs to be clarified and debated before the 2019/20 season.

For round 1 presumably it was a forced pairing for the Gonzaga teams to meet, but yes it's the second time in succession that Trinity plays Dun Laoghaire first, followed by Gonzaga and Dublin in the last round. So it certainly doesn't look like a random draw.

Your point about the last round is invalid I think. It is a good thing all matches are played together as it eliminates any danger of collusion, and in theory makes it possible to have proper arbiting. It's also an end-of-season chance for everyone to meet up.

What is not so good is that last April there were no increments in the final round, and that all the southside clubs were dragged out to the airport again. After my game I waited about 45 minutes outside AALSA for a bus, because they were all full leaving the terminals, until somebody with a car rescued me.

Most of all, though, I just hope for the event to run smoothly with no arbitrary and perverse interpretation of badly-worded rules.

EnPassant · 04-09-2018 11:52am

Presumably the reason pairings are reversed each year is so that, for example, Dublin teams travel to Kilkenny in alternate years.

Given that so many Armstrong teams now play on Saturdays, maybe the LCU should look at running the Armstrong similarly to the Munster leagues, with 2 matches played at a central venue on 5 Saturdays throughout the season with the last round being played as at present. It would free up lots of time on the calendar for events such as the Branagan Cup, etc.

Tim Harding · 04-09-2018 2:22pm

EnPassant wrote: »

Presumably the reason pairings are reversed each year is so that, for example, Dublin teams travel to Kilkenny in alternate years.

Yes but why in the same rounds almost every time?

EnPassant wrote: »

Given that so many Armstrong teams now play on Saturdays, maybe the LCU should look at running the Armstrong similarly to the Munster leagues, with 2 matches played at a central venue on 5 Saturdays throughout the season with the last round being played as at present. It would free up lots of time on the calendar for events such as the Branagan Cup, etc.

Definitely NOT in favour of playing two FIDE-rated games in a day if it can be avoided. Weekends with rounds on Saturdays and Sundays as in the 4NCL and many continental leagues would be much preferable for older players, but finding the venues could be a problem.
Another issue may be that there are more tournaments these days.

I think Trinity may be playing their home matches on Saturday this season (in both Armstrong and Ennis) but that is up to the new committee. Uncertainty over such details may be what is delaying putting dates on the fixture list.

sodacat11 · 04-09-2018 2:24pm

Of course the fixtures have to be reversed each year but they do not have to be played in the same sequence as the preceding year, that is just a lazy way of doing the "draw" (in fact it isn't a draw at all). Every year Dun laoghaire get Dublin Uni in round one when Dublin are at their weakest and have trouble fielding a team. Similarly some poor sods have to play Kilkenny the weekend they have their Christmas do and all their best players are available. Apart from having the two Gonzaga teams play each other in round one, which is unavoidable, there should be a completely open draw. This would not prevent the home and aways from the previous season being reversed, they just wouldn't be in the same sequence.
As for Tim's point about the last round, I am not saying that it shouldn't be held in the one venue, I am just saying that the same teams shouldn't be playing each other there every year. Mind you, that ALSAA venue is completely crap as far as chess venues go.-, way too cramped and the lighting is awful.

Tim Harding · 04-09-2018 6:59pm

sodacat11 wrote: »

... Mind you, that ALSAA venue is completely crap as far as chess venues go.-, way too cramped and the lighting is awful.

True, though that place we played one year in Inchicore was far more crowded, and the Bray hotel another time was a disaster. The Armstrong matches were played in the front bar with all the fun of the fair blaring in from the seafront.

I preferred Teachers Club but maybe there are objections to that venue too.

We need a millionaire benefactor, say a chess player winning the Lotto, to buy a suitable premises for a National Chess Centre. (Fat chance alas)

sodacat11 · 04-09-2018 7:47pm

That hotel in Stillorgan where we had the Irish Championship is brilliant as is Gonzaga or the Royal marine in Dun Laoghaire. Green isle is good too and the Maldron hotel where the Malahide tournament was held is also excellent.

Danville · 10-09-2018 11:40pm

sodacat11 wrote: »

Of course the fixtures have to be reversed each year but they do not have to be played in the same sequence as the preceding year, that is just a lazy way of doing the "draw" (in fact it isn't a draw at all). Every year Dun laoghaire get Dublin Uni in round one when Dublin are at their weakest and have trouble fielding a team. Similarly some poor sods have to play Kilkenny the weekend they have their Christmas do and all their best players are available. Apart from having the two Gonzaga teams play each other in round one, which is unavoidable, there should be a completely open draw. This would not prevent the home and aways from the previous season being reversed, they just wouldn't be in the same sequence.
As for Tim's point about the last round, I am not saying that it shouldn't be held in the one venue, I am just saying that the same teams shouldn't be playing each other there every year. Mind you, that ALSAA venue is completely crap as far as chess venues go.-, way too cramped and the lighting is awful.

Be advised that the Kilkenny 'Christmas do' is always held in February.
Can't say whether it's a late Christmas do or an early one!
We call it our annual club dinner.
Agree with you re ALSAA BTW.

mikhail · 25-09-2018 7:17pm

Balbriggan 5-3 Benildus.

sodacat11 · 25-09-2018 7:31pm

mikhail wrote: »

Balbriggan 5-3 Benildus.

Surely you mean Blanchardstown????

macelligott · 25-09-2018 8:01pm

Armstrong R1 Elm Mount 4-4 Dublin

mikhail · 25-09-2018 10:57pm

sodacat11 wrote: »

Surely you mean Blanchardstown????

I do. It was that kind of night.

sodacat11 · 26-09-2018 4:14pm

Every year we have a couple of teams (usually just promoted) who are clearly weaker than the more established Armstrong teams but this year Blanchardstown and Gonzaga "B" are clearly going to be strong enough to survive so teams like Dun Laoghaire, Rathmines, Balbriggan, Bray and TCD are all going to be dragged into the relegation dog fight. It should make for an interesting league this year!!

Tim Harding · 27-09-2018 9:30am

Four matches this Saturday after which the overdogs and underdogs may be easier to spot.

Which club are you playing for this year, sodacat, or are you the hurler on the ditch?

sodacat11 · 27-09-2018 10:34am

I am playing for Rathmines. We have a good team of mostly young and improving players so I am hopeful that we can avoid relegation.

sodacat11 · 27-09-2018 10:43am

Tim Harding wrote: »

Four matches this Saturday after which the overdogs and underdogs may be easier to spot.

Which club are you playing for this year, sodacat, or are you the hurler on the ditch?

I am playing for Rathmines. We have a good team of mostly young improving players but are without a 22/2300 player to make a challenge for the title.We should avoid relegation though.
No doubt you will be asking the ICU to remove all games by Dublin Uni players from its database before the league commences?

Tim Harding · 27-09-2018 2:15pm

sodacat11 wrote: »

I am playing for Rathmines. We have a good team of mostly young improving players but are without a 22/2300 player to make a challenge for the title.We should avoid relegation though.
No doubt you will be asking the ICU to remove all games by Dublin Uni players from its database before the league commences?

Never thought of it. Thanks for the tip...

Past_Pawn_99 · 28-09-2018 1:45pm

Since nobody has posted any predictions I guess I'll start:

Winner: Gonzaga A
Runner Up: Elm Mount
Third: Dublin University

Relegated: Dun Laoghaire & Balbriggan

mikhail · 28-09-2018 1:48pm

I expect Elm Mount will win as Gonzaga have split their strength.

sodacat11 · 29-09-2018 11:24am

Past_Pawn_99 wrote: »

Since nobody has posted any predictions I guess I'll start:

Winner: Gonzaga A
Runner Up: Elm Mount
Third: Dublin University

Relegated: Dun Laoghaire & Balbriggan

Dunno why such optimism for Dublin Uni, I tip them to get relegated along with Balbriggan . Gonzaga will probably win the thing again YAWNNNNNNN:rolleyes:

Past_Pawn_99 · 29-09-2018 11:47am

sodacat11 wrote: »

Dunno why such optimism for Dublin Uni, I tip them to get relegated along with Balbriggan . Gonzaga will probably win the thing again YAWNNNNNNN:rolleyes:

It was certainly an ambitious pick you're right!

cdeb · 29-09-2018 12:33pm

Trinity could do well if they can get their act together as a club. But that's been a big "if" in recent years. It doesn't matter who's in their squad if their players go to the wrong venue, or if they scratch as often as last season.

Gonzaga A v Gonzaga B will tell a lot about who'll win the Armstrong this year.

If Balbriggan have lost and not replaced Bart, it's hard to see them staying up. The other relegated team could be almost anyone. Including Benildus, if we keep losing to promoted teams

checknraise · 29-09-2018 12:52pm

Elm Mount have lost quite a few players.

1st Gonzaga A
2nd Gonzaga B

Relegation

Elm Mount
Balbriggan

cdeb · 29-09-2018 1:01pm

That's bordering on incendiary!

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 29-09-2018 4:19pm

cdeb wrote: »

That's bordering on incendiary!

Gonzaga A vs B postponed - players/captains at Olympiad & school championship today.

Past_Pawn_99 · 29-09-2018 7:07pm

Dublin University 5 - 1 Dun Laoghaire

Two games to be played on Wednesday

Rathminor · 29-09-2018 7:45pm

Balbriggan 3.5 Rathmines 4.5

Tim Harding · 29-09-2018 8:52pm

cdeb wrote: »

Trinity could do well if they can get their act together as a club. But that's been a big "if" in recent years. It doesn't matter who's in their squad if their players go to the wrong venue, or if they scratch as often as last season.

Trinity is under new management this season. See first round (partial) score above...

macelligott · 29-09-2018 9:02pm

Armstrong R1. I’ve heard Kilkenny is losing 2.5 - 4.5 to Bray

sodacat11 · 29-09-2018 11:21pm

Tim Harding wrote: »

Trinity is under new management this season. See first round (partial) score above...

I'm changing my relegation prediction to Balbriggan and Dun Laoghaire unless Trinity's new manager is Jose Mourinho in which case I'd stick with them.

Rathminor · 30-09-2018 7:41pm

Prediction,

1st Gonzaga A - even without Conor, they shouldn’t need the overseas players to retain the title
2nd Dublin University
3rd Kilkenny

If David & Alvaro play, I would revise Elm Mount up into second

Relegation:

Blanchardstown - although they have started very well in round 1
Dun Laoghaire - would need to have Tom play a lot if they are to avoid the drop

Armstrong Cup 2018-19

Comments