Should we stop bullying the United Kingdom?

feargale · 16-11-2018 12:47am

The Examiner and Independent headlines today were no help to anyone "major win for Ireland", "victory" etc.. When you get what you want you don't rub your adversary's nose in it, and you certainly don't do so before the game is over. That is damaging to Ireland's interests, especially since stupid pride seems to be such a relevant factor from the British point of view Their unpatriotic posturing may sell papers, but, well, what's new?
As for Sinn Féin, they seek power without responsibility, the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages. No contribution for the sake of Ireland north or south. But don't worry. To go to Westminster might damage them electorally and despite their loud protestations bums on seats matter more than Ireland's welfare.

MonkieSocks · 16-11-2018 12:50am

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 12:58am

feargale wrote: »

The Examiner and Independent headlines today were no help to anyone "major win for Ireland", "victory" etc.. When you get what you want you don't rub your adversary's nose in it, and you certainly don't do so before the game is over. That is damaging to Ireland's interests, especially since stupid pride seems to be such a relevant factor from the British point of view Their unpatriotic posturing may sell papers, but, well, what's new?
As for Sinn Féin, they seek power without responsibility, the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages. No contribution for the sake of Ireland north or south. But don't worry. To go to Westminster might damage them electorally and despite their loud protestations bums on seats matter more than Ireland's welfare.

FG rejected special status for northern Ireland when Brexit appeared a possibility. SF demanded it from the get go, and stood back when FG eventually let the penny drop and heeded it. FG would say SF didn't influence them, just co-incidence of course, nothing to see here, blah blah

:D

I agree otherwise, Leo should stay away from the megaphone when he wants to tell us what a great job he did.

16-11-2018 1:04am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FG rejected special status for northern Ireland when Brexit appeared a possibility. SF demanded it from the get go, and stood back when FG eventually let the penny drop and heeded it. FG would say SF didn't influence them, just co-incidence of course, nothing to see here, blah blah :D

I agree otherwise, Leo should stay away from the megaphone when he wants to tell us what a great job he did.

Which way did SF campaign in the referendum?

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 1:09am

Aegir wrote: »

Which way did SF campaign in the referendum?

Against Brexit afaik.

16-11-2018 10:54am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Against Brexit afaik.

they didn't actually register to campaign either way.

Typical Sinn Fein, not actually offering anything other than sniping from the wings at whatever outcome comes along, then trying to claim credit for it.

If you want to credit anyone with pushing the Irish Border, you really need to look at the EU's master politician himself

https://www.politico.eu/article/michel-barnier-brexit-negotiator-weve-reached-peak/

ancapailldorcha · 16-11-2018 11:19am

Aegir wrote: »

they didn't actually register to campaign either way.

Typical Sinn Fein, not actually offering anything other than sniping from the wings at whatever outcome comes along, then trying to claim credit for it.

If you want to credit anyone with pushing the Irish Border, you really need to look at the EU's master politician himself

https://www.politico.eu/article/michel-barnier-brexit-negotiator-weve-reached-peak/

What is an article that is little more than gossip from August supposed to prove.

Berserker · 16-11-2018 11:20am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FG rejected special status for northern Ireland when Brexit appeared a possibility. SF demanded it from the get go, and stood back when FG eventually let the penny drop and heeded it. FG would say SF didn't influence them, just co-incidence of course, nothing to see here, blah blah

SF aren't players in Brexit. They didn't even register to campaign for or against it. They are not taking their places in the London to represent the people of NI.

Berserker · 16-11-2018 11:23am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Against Brexit afaik.

Are they not Eurosceptic anymore? They were traditionally.

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 11:28am

Aegir wrote: »

they didn't actually register to campaign either way.

Typical Sinn Fein, not actually offering anything other than sniping from the wings at whatever outcome comes along, then trying to claim credit for it.

If you want to credit anyone with pushing the Irish Border, you really need to look at the EU's master politician himself

https://www.politico.eu/article/michel-barnier-brexit-negotiator-weve-reached-peak/

Berserker wrote: »

SF aren't players in Brexit. They didn't even register to campaign for or against it. They are not taking their places in the London to represent the people of NI. They've been no better than some barstoolers discussing Brexit.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-to-campaign-against-brexit-in-eu-referendum-1.2476720

Pesky facts again.

McGuinness in 2016 on Special Status when FG were still ruling it out:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/16/martin-mcguinness-calls-for-special-eu-status-for-northern-ireland

Meanwhile, even into 2017, FG were rejecting 'special status'

Mr Adams also criticised the Mr Kenny's earlier speech in the Mansion House, and said he had rejected the special status for Northern Ireland.

He said this was a "deep flaw" in the Government's approach which, he said, was dictated by what the British government wants.

Minister for Foreign Affairs Charlie Flanagan has rejected the motion by Sinn Féin.

He said that notwithstanding the unique circumstances on the island of Ireland, terms like "special status" give rise to serious concerns for other EU partners about precedents that might be set elsewhere.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0215/852892-taoiseach-brexit-speech/

16-11-2018 11:28am

Berserker wrote: »

Are they not Eurosceptic anymore? They were traditionally.

they were, until the UK voted leave and now suddenly they are the EUs biggest fans.

You'll find plenty on here like that as well

Laois_Man · 16-11-2018 11:29am

Were Shinners not kinda stuck - they were probably secretly hoping for the Leave campaign to win, but couldn't say so publicly without automatically being associated with the (now) "IreExit" movement in the Republic.....and that association really would do them nothing but harm down here.

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 11:33am

Aegir wrote: »

they were, until the UK voted leave and now suddenly they are the EUs biggest fans.

You'll find plenty on here like that as well

I have always been Euroskeptic and will always be. That is a healthy approach to any Union imo. That doesn't mean that leaving would be a good choice.

Would that a few Unionists would be the same about the great Union, they are supposed to be equals in, that has just shafted them.

Berserker · 16-11-2018 11:57am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have always been Euroskeptic and will always be.

I am too. What do you think about the EU army?

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 12:01pm

Berserker wrote: »

I am too. What do you think about the EU army?

I dislike all armies and the need for them.

I don't like NATO and how it performs so I would like more detail on how an EU army would function. Wait and see is my attitude.

VinLieger · 16-11-2018 12:05pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I dislike all armies and the need for them.

You might dislike the need for them but do you accept the reality of the need for them?

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 12:12pm

VinLieger wrote: »

You might dislike the need for them but do you accept the reality of the need for them?

Yes, I do. Force, is an unfortunate and sometimes understandable requirement in our world.

markodaly · 16-11-2018 1:07pm

Aegir wrote: »

they didn't actually register to campaign either way.

Typical Sinn Fein, not actually offering anything other than sniping from the wings at whatever outcome comes along, then trying to claim credit for it.

Yeap classic Sinn Fein. One would have you believe that they are now the biggest fans of the EU ever ever ever...

But the hard truth is that Sinn Fein has been always eurosceptic. They campaigned to vote against every single EU treaty this nation has had a referendum on. They are this countries version of UKIP. LOLZ

Laois_Man · 16-11-2018 1:21pm

markodaly wrote: »

Yeap classic Sinn Fein. One would have you believe that they are now the biggest fans of the EU ever ever ever...

But the hard truth is that Sinn Fein has been always eurosceptic. They campaigned to vote against every single EU treaty this nation has had a referendum on. They are this countries version of UKIP. LOLZ

Nonsense. SF have never expressed a wish for Ireland to leave the EU that I'm aware of

Not wanting the EU to be grabbing more and more power is a different thing altogether.

It's OK to want to be in the EEC type union that we originally joined, but the EU now is a different animal completely!

Zubeneschamali · 16-11-2018 1:40pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

Nonsense. SF have never expressed a wish for Ireland to leave the EU that I'm aware of

They campaigned against Ireland entering in the first place and then for a No on every treaty referendum since:

1973: Accession.
1987: Single European Act.
1992: Maastricht.
1998: Amsterdam
2001: Nice 1
2002: Nice 2
2008: Lisbon 1
2009: Lisbon 2
2012: Fiscal Compact

Why were they anti? A bit like Corbyn, they thought the EU was a rich mans club for corporations to exploit workers, and worried about Irelands Neutrality in a future Euro superstate.

markodaly · 16-11-2018 1:42pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

Nonsense. SF have never expressed a wish for Ireland to leave the EU that I'm aware of

Sinn Fein did not want Ireland to be in the EU or the then EEC in the first place, and have campaigned on the 'No' side each and every single time.

If it walks and a duck and quacks like a duck....

Laois_Man · 16-11-2018 2:02pm

Again, as I said, SF have never campaigned for Ireland to leave the EU

I don't like the EU myself - But I can still recognize we're better off in it that out of it

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 2:05pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The campaigned against Ireland entering in the first place and then for a No on every treaty referendum since:

1973: Accession.
1987: Single European Act.
1992: Maastricht.
1998: Amsterdam
2001: Nice 1
2002: Nice 2
2008: Lisbon 1
2009: Lisbon 2
2012: Fiscal Compact

Why were they anti? A bit like Corbyn, they thought the EU was a rich mans club for corporations to exploit workers, and worried about Irelands Neutrality in a future Euro superstate.

I wouldn't disagree with the contention that SF are EuroSceptic, but I fail to see any evidence that they advocate us leaving it.
Here is an essay I found on a quick google which lays out in detail their problems with it, and even then in 2005, I see no call to leave it - but one to change it.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/4830

I believe the EU needs reform and change too, and always needs to be open to it.

Laois_Man · 16-11-2018 2:08pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I believe the EU needs reform and change too, and always needs to be open to it.

If they had their way, we'd be the USE by now!

twinytwo · 16-11-2018 2:09pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

Again, as I said, SF have never campaigned for Ireland to leave the EU

I don't like the EU myself - But I can still recognize we're better off in it that out of it

That depends on what you consider better off?

Is for example, easy travel worth losing the ability to control who we allow into our country?

Consider what Merkel did to Europe (- the ramifications of which will be long felt after she is dead and buried - regardless of what the multi-culture brigade will have you believe.) when its own laws can be ignored by the biggest players when it suits them.

markodaly · 16-11-2018 3:02pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

Again, as I said, SF have never campaigned for Ireland to leave the EU

I don't like the EU myself - But I can still recognize we're better off in it that out of it

Well, we have never put it to the vote so you never know with SF.

What we have had from SF is the following.

Dont join the EEC, followed by a 'No' campaign each and every time the question of Europe is brought upon is.

As I said, they are Ireland's UKIP.

Laois_Man · 16-11-2018 3:11pm

markodaly wrote: »

Well, we have never put it to the vote so you never know with SF.

What we have had from SF is the following.

Dont join the EEC, followed by a 'No' campaign each and every time the question of Europe is brought upon is.

As I said, they are Ireland's UKIP.

Except UKIP didn't wait for a referendum to start campaigning to "leave"

So no, they're not!

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 3:12pm

markodaly wrote: »

Well, we have never put it to the vote so you never know with SF.

What we have had from SF is the following.

Dont join the EEC, followed by a 'No' campaign each and every time the question of Europe is brought upon is.

As I said, they are Ireland's UKIP.

The Labour Party and all trade unions here campaigned for a No to joining the EEC.

And I think you mean 'Questions about aspects of the EU' rather than 'questions on Europe'

I am still waiting for someone to link to SF advocating for us to leave the EU. because google as I might, I cannot find one sentence where it is uttered as a party position. Labour and Trade Unions have seemingly changed position too.

Grayson · 07-12-2018 2:31pm

https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-threat-food-shortages-ireland-4381228-Dec2018/
Tory MP suggests using possible 'no-deal' food shortages in Ireland to drop the backstop

Jesus. they're stooping low now.

Edit: just noticed there's a separate thread.

Kermit.de.frog · 25-02-2019 9:14am

So.....

Have we bitch slapped Britain enough or do you sickos want more?

18-03-2019 1:42pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

Britain is not our biggest trading partner; the US is. I don't know where doolox gets his figures from; the UK accounts for 15% of our exports and 32% of our imports.

Just an update from this week: for the first time since records began, the proportion of Irish exports sold to the UK dropped below 10%. In economic terms, that's an almost revolutionary change from when 90% of Irish exports went there and dependence marked out official independence. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Exports hit record €13.7bn in January as reliance on UK declines

Exports to Britain fell marginally to just under €1.2 billion, accounting for 9 per cent of total exports in January. This is the first time on record that the UK, traditionally the Republic’s largest EU trading partner, has accounted for less than 10 per cent of exports.

The Government believes market diversification, in other words reducing the State’s reliance on the UK market, is key to managing the Brexit risk.

Although:

While this has been achieved in many sectors, the Republic’s food and drink trade is still heavily reliant on the UK and remains the most exposed to Brexit.

According to Bord Bia, some €4.5 billion or 37 per cent of all food and drink exports from the State went to the UK last year.

Why, despite decades of warnings now, the Irish food industry has been allowed to make itself so dependent on one market needs to be answered at the highest level. If being too lazy to develop new markets and short-term greed are the answers, let the shareholders in Glanbia, Dairygold and all the rest suffer alone.

Capt'n Midnight · 18-03-2019 2:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why, despite decades of warnings now, the Irish food industry has been allowed to make itself so dependent on one market needs to be answered at the highest level. If being too lazy to develop new markets and short-term greed are the answers, let the shareholders in Glanbia, Dairygold and all the rest suffer alone.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest fresh food or high volume low margin stuff tends to sell best locally when you factor in travel time or transport costs.

If the UK want fresh food from outside the EU it will mean flying it in. At least one UK supermarket has rejected this approach, because all cargo planes have been booked out by other industries contingency plans.

Never mind Glanbia who export worldwide and Dairygold a name used by multiple creameries, what about the merger between Lakeland and LacPatrick ? Donegal milk processed in the UK and sold by Lidl and Aldi ?

Peregrinus · 18-03-2019 3:33pm

Capt'n Midnight has it; gravity models of trade predict that you will trade most with large markets that are close to you, and they are especially powerful predictors of where trade in fresh food will occur.

And any suggestion that the food industry has been complacent is misplaced. Yes, 37% of food and drink exports go to the UK, and that's high, but it's down from over 50% a few years ago. They've been working hard to identify and develop new markets.

Kermit.de.frog · 23-03-2019 8:25am

Yurt2 · 23-03-2019 11:15am

A few knobs of Irish butter on Singaporean or Japanese specialist supermarket shelves won't soften the blow for the Irish agricultural sector - they're going to be in a world of hurt in a few months time.

Kick a Brit and making fun of Tories' silly haircuts and accents might be a bit of craic for now, but ultimately it's counterproductive. Leo has p*ssed of the British with his attempts to get political capital from the situation, his smarm translates well across the Irish Sea it seems. Ireland could have served as a moderating force between the entrenched EU and UK positions; both of whom are as bad as each other. Coveney seems to be more even-handed, and by all accounts is a cooler customer and an easier person to deal with. FG in their wisdom wanted novelty socks and a strong Twitter game it appears.

FrancieBrady · 23-03-2019 11:20am

Yurt! wrote: »

A few knobs of Irish butter on Singaporean or Japanese specialist supermarket shelves won't soften the blow for the Irish agricultural sector - they're going to be in a world of hurt in a few months time.

Kick a Brit and making fun of Tories' silly haircuts and accents might be a bit of craic for now, but ultimately it's counterproductive. Leo has p*ssed of the British with his attempts to get political capital from the situation, his smarm translates well across the Irish Sea it seems. Ireland could have served as a moderating force between the entrenched EU and UK positions; both of whom are as bad as each other. Coveney seems to be more even-handed, and by all accounts is a cooler customer and an easier person to deal with. FG in their wisdom wanted novelty socks and a strong Twitter game it appears.

How has the EU been entrenched? they negotiated and compromised and made a deal. What is entrenched about that?

And while I would be no huge fan of FG and Leo I don't see how they have taken a position, just to make 'political capital'. In a very real sense they are saving life not to mention livelihoods.
No politician would be worth a bob if they did not fight for that. Gone are the days when it is necessary to roll over for the British.

Silent Running · 23-03-2019 11:24am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How has the EU been entrenched? they negotiated and compromised and made a deal. What is entrenched about that?

And while I would be no huge fan of FG and Leo I don't see how they have taken a position, just to make 'political capital'. In a very real sense they are saving life not to mention livelihoods.
No politician would be worth a bob if they did not fight for that. Gone are the days when it is necessary to roll over for the British.

They just haven't realised it yet.

ancapailldorcha · 23-03-2019 11:25am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So.....

Have we bitch slapped Britain enough or do you sickos want more?

More I think. I'm personally enjoying the irony of global buccaneering Britain being bossed around by a gay Irish half-Indian.

Capt'n Midnight · 24-03-2019 3:17am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

More I think. I'm personally enjoying the irony of global buccaneering Britain being bossed around by a gay Irish half-Indian.

I'm enjoying all the easiest trade deals ever.

In reality it's all self inflicted.

Pretty much every aspect of Brexit has been a car crash. Every time you dig a little it gets worse.

A slow motion car crash, but with a train.

One of those iron ore trains that only goes at 5mph. But has hundreds of wagons. And they will still be piling up for hours and hours.

prinzeugen · 24-03-2019 3:31am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

More I think. I'm personally enjoying the irony of global buccaneering Britain being bossed around by a gay Irish half-Indian.

A gay Irish-half Indian that is taking orders from the other global buccanering EU powers.

He is just a French and German puppet. You want the UK to be bullied? That will workout well next time Ireland needs a financial bailout.

24-03-2019 3:47am

prinzeugen wrote: »

A gay Irish-half Indian that is taking orders from the other global buccanering EU powers.

He is just a French and German puppet. You want the UK to be bullied? That will workout well next time Ireland needs a financial bailout.

Your paranoia really is unmatched.

Duckworth_Luas · 24-03-2019 3:48am

They've done a trade deal with the Faroe Islands!!!

prinzeugen · 24-03-2019 3:55am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Your paranoia really is unmatched.

Ok...

Avatar MIA · 24-03-2019 5:33am

prinzeugen wrote: »

That will workout well next time Ireland needs a financial bailout.

I still don't understand why Ireland took a loan off the British. It seemed like a symbolic sack cloth and ashes.

But, the phrase, 'with friends like these...' Comes to mind. And they've not allowed Ireland repay early to keep being paid punitive interest. Others allowed early loan repayment.

Kermit.de.frog · 24-03-2019 6:02am

That "bailout" from Britain was, I think, 5% of the total bailout?

Lucy8080 · 24-03-2019 6:16am

Avatar MIA wrote: »

I still don't understand why Ireland took a loan off the British. It seemed like a symbolic sack cloth and ashes.

I can think of two reasons.

1. The British looking after British investment concerns in Ireland.

2. The E.U. rules would not allow us to raise interest rates to take the heat out of the economy( house prices etc.). Our hands were tied.

Rock and hard place,eh?

fash · 24-03-2019 7:11am

Lucy8080 wrote: »

2. The E.U. rules would not allow us to raise interest rates to take the heat out of the economy( house prices etc.). Our hands were tied.

Rock and hard place,eh?

Plenty of other ways to take the heat of the economy - mortgage restrictions (like we have now) - even an SSIA.

Balanadan · 24-03-2019 8:06am

Let's build a wall and get them to pay for it.

mickoneill31 · 24-03-2019 10:46am

prinzeugen wrote: »

A gay Irish-half Indian that is taking orders from the other global buccanering EU powers.

He is just a French and German puppet. You want the UK to be bullied? That will workout well next time Ireland needs a financial bailout.

Jesus. Maybe don't post in the middle of the night.

I don't get why people in the UK think it's everybody against them. In every part of life getting a group together makes the consituent parts stronger. In the British media and government it was alway UK & the EU. I don't think it clicked that they're part of the EU.

They were always whinging about laws that they didn't have control of. When you ask them they talk about bendy bananas. They don't seem to know about the employment rights, consumer protections etc. that the EU actually does do and that benefit us all.

And moaning that Leo is a French and German puppet is pretty pathetic. Most of us in Ireland think that the government has done a good job with Brexit. So he's doing what we want. You know, that's what politicans are meant to do. We're not going to adopt the British model of draw a line in the sand and then fight amongst ourselves for years while the rest of the world looks on in bemusement.

ToddyDoody · 24-03-2019 10:56am

I was only thinking.

Theresa May, as we know, is wooden.

The UK political process has ground to a halt.

Maybe a more wheeler dealer UK taoiseach is needed, someone with a bit of flexibility who can grease the wheels a little and keep things moving.

I can only imagine how Bertie would have negotiated this given a half-dodgy chance.

Should we stop bullying the United Kingdom?

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