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Balancing house v commute

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24

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    #32
    GingerLily
    Registered Users Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭GingerLily


    wersal gummage wrote: »
    They are just examples. Could as easily be Sandymount v Sutton. Same thing. Commuting on public transport for bugger house v a walk to work...

    Honestly, it's hard to advise without knowing your budget.

    Its a balance between the two and your budget will dictate how much you have to compromise


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    #33
    GingerLily
    Registered Users Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭GingerLily


    Is there no way to discuss options that DON'T include cycling


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    #34
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    The two example locations you have given would be similar priced locations. If you can afford a bigger house in one location you can afford it in the other.

    Edit: i just saw you said you live in portobello.


    This is really a non problem in terms of commute. You have many good options in the city to give you a decent sized house with a small commute. Clontarf, blackrock killester, dartry... all of these are still city locations imo. Portobello is proper city centre.

    I was thinking of skerries, rush...etc. when you were talking about commuting time as an issue.


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    #35
    Peterx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭Peterx


    GingerLily wrote: »
    Is there no way to discuss options that DON'T include cycling

    The admittedly vague OP appears to about reducing commute times and avoiding commute stress, all within a Dublin setting. Further posts mention no parking in work and pressure to get to the creche on time.

    Cycling is the optimal solution in a grid locked city poorly served by public transport.

    Of course you can discuss worse options but there is a reason people are promoting cycling as the answer to a 10km commute.

    It's the best option for the vast majority of people.


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    #36
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    GingerLily wrote: »
    Is there no way to discuss options that DON'T include cycling

    People are providing their experience with cycling. You don't have to accept their advice, nor does the OP.


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    #37
    ionapaul
    Registered Users Posts: 5,295 ✭✭✭ionapaul


    I think living closer to town, your workplace is the better option; assuming you are relatively open to where exactly you live you can find a small place near a park and playground, partially making up for any lack of personal green space. Time spent commuting is just wasted time in most cases, and the negative of this wasted time greatly outweighs the positives of a slightly bigger house, bigger garden, etc... IMHO. It's the reason why properties in 'good' areas closer to town are typically higher than those further out; the difference in cost price neatly illuminates the value of a shorter commute!


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    #38
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,439 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I'd try keep the commute as short as possible.

    Though Killiney -> Dublin is still a reasonable commute IMO.


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    #39
    Alanstrainor
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 23,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    awec wrote: »
    I'd try keep the commute as short as possible.

    Though Killiney -> Dublin is still a reasonable commute IMO.

    I lived in Killiney for a while and commuted in. It'll be in and around an hour commute into the city centre on public transport. Not too bad I reckon. Transport links are decent, and the dart is a possibility if you're close to it. I ended up buying in Portmarnock, so you can tell which option I went with. Bigger house, driveway, bigger garden, large green spaces and parks nearby etc. The distances from 'town' are not huge. I think I'd be doing a dry run of the commute some day and see what traffic/public transport is like for you at those times.


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    #40
    Schrodingercat
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭Schrodingercat


    I made the move from city center to 10K outside before we had kids and I definitely wouldn't move back in to city. (but Its what I'm used to now)

    When you get home you have playgrounds etc. nearby, so you can get out for an hour before bed time rather than sitting in the house with them.
    Quality of Schools is important, and if you can drop kids to creches / schools within walking distance of your house you can continue your commute in easily . Bigger house, more room to store things.
    Weekends you have sports clubs etc. nearby that you won't have in the city, and you don't have to get through traffic to get to them, so you will make up the time you lose during the week but if the commute meant you were only home a few minutes before bed then it wouldn't be worth it.


    Killiney is further than 10km so is a decent cycle (with Hills). My commute is around 30 minutes on a bike, and up to an hour on public transport door to door.


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    #41
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,521 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    GingerLily wrote: »
    Not everyone works in am office with bike facilities, not everyone has good roads for commuting, especially in the winter

    Certainly office facilities are an issue, though some people find ways around this by showering at a city gym or pool instead. Any 10k route into Dublin has decent roads for commuting. We're not talking about Ballygobackwards here.
    GingerLily wrote: »
    Is there no way to discuss options that DON'T include cycling
    Sure, we could discuss the options of ever-increasing gridlocks, increasing climate emissions and associated fines, increasing the number of deaths each year due to air-quality beyond the current 1600 each year, doubling your personal risk of cancer and all those other options that don't involve cycling.


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    #42
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,439 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Cycling suits a certain demographic, but if you have kids and have to do creche and school runs it is an absolute pain in the dick so I don't see why people keep going on about it.

    Getting up in the middle of winter, getting two kids into a bike trailer and having to trek them through rain and wind just sounds like total hell.

    And I say this as someone who enjoys cycling.


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    #43
    daithiK1
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭daithiK1


    awec wrote: »
    Cycling suits a certain demographic, but if you have kids and have to do creche and school runs it is an absolute pain in the dick so I don't see why people keep going on about it.

    Getting up in the middle of winter, getting two kids into a bike trailer and having to trek them through rain and wind just sounds like total hell.

    And I say this as someone who enjoys cycling.

    that might be your opinion, but thats all it is. I include cycling with my drop to the creche on route to work, and it works quite well for me.


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    #44
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Sorry OP but is this really an issue. 10km from Portobello could mean a 15 min trip into town on a dart or a luas depending on your location. Is this really an issue? Are the locations you're looking at not well served by transport or only by bus?


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    #45
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,439 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    daithiK1 wrote: »
    that might be your opinion, but thats all it is. I include cycling with my drop to the creche on route to work, and it works quite well for me.
    Good for you, but anyone who thinks the majority of parents have any interest whatsoever in cycling their kids to and from creche or school is absolutely deluded.

    OP has already said he is not interested in it.


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    #46
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭skallywag


    The likes of Croozers are great for spinning around with the kids, but there is no way I would want to be using one day in day out as part of my regular routine, particularly through typical Irish weather. I'm an avid cyclist myself but I certainly would have no interest in it.

    OP, coming back to your opening Q, I would go for the extra space / green areas.


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    #47
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Op, could you drop kids in car.. park somewhere and then cycle?

    There's a guy that parks across from my house who does that for that very reason.

    Drops kids to child minder, drives to my road (south county dub from Bray), takes out bike and cycles in office (ifsc area).

    From chatting to him, allows flexibility for him/his wife, takes about 20 mins to get from childminder to my road, he's no parking and doesnt want to pay, the time from getting onto his bike to work is pretty consistent, makes him fitter etc.

    Just on the no showering facilities, could you join a gym, chances are with this approach you'd save enough money each week to pay for it


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    #48
    daithiK1
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭daithiK1


    awec wrote: »
    daithiK1 wrote: »
    that might be your opinion, but thats all it is. I include cycling with my drop to the creche on route to work, and it works quite well for me.
    Good for you, but anyone who thinks the majority of parents have any interest whatsoever in cycling their kids to and from creche or school is absolutely deluded.

    OP has already said he is not interested in it.
    I didn't specifically mean cycling the children to creche, let me be clear( for the op), driving to creche with bike in boot/rack is a real option, worth trying out before discounting especially if you are comfortable cycling and would consider it longer term, crèches further out very often are located in areas where you can leave the car during the day... Parking at creche and cycling the remainder to work, then visa versa for you or other half on way home. Plenty do it, and from my experience it facilitated moving from dublin single digit city centre to double digit subarbs without impacting time with them in evening.
    Also from my experience I would strongly echo the earlier comments re. Slightlying further out a better option at weekends for sports and parks, less traffic etc.


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    #49
    wersal gummage
    Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭wersal gummage


    Schrodingercat wrote: »
    ...
    When you get home you have playgrounds etc. nearby, so you can get out for an hour before bed time rather than sitting in the house with them.
    Quality of Schools is important, and if you can drop kids to creches / schools within walking distance of your house you can continue your commute in easily . Bigger house, more room to store things.
    Weekends you have sports clubs etc. nearby that you won't have in the city, and you don't have to get through traffic to get to them, so you will make up the time you lose during the week but if the commute meant you were only home a few minutes before bed then it wouldn't be worth it.
    ...

    .

    Thank you, this was the kind of thing I was really asking about


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    #50
    wersal gummage
    Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭wersal gummage


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Sorry OP but is this really an issue. 10km from Portobello could mean a 15 min trip into town on a dart or a luas depending on your location. Is this really an issue? Are the locations you're looking at not well served by transport or only by bus?

    From what I can see, it's not possible to get from 10km into town in 15 mins. First off, we work 15 mins from nearest dart in town... Then we can't afford to live right next to a Dart station so are looking at a good 15 mins the other end too. I use tbr dart regularly and it is constantly late in the evenings, then stopping between stations to let faster trains by, wait for platforms to clear etc.

    Have you ever gone 10km on a Dart? It doesn't take 15 mins! Again, I'm not looking to debate how long a commute takes. Just say it's an hour on public transport, is it worth spending that hour say, versus 25 mins walk to a city location, for whatever perceived benefits are in the suburbs??


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    #51
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,521 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    awec wrote: »
    Cycling suits a certain demographic, but if you have kids and have to do creche and school runs it is an absolute pain in the dick so I don't see why people keep going on about it.

    Getting up in the middle of winter, getting two kids into a bike trailer and having to trek them through rain and wind just sounds like total hell.

    And I say this as someone who enjoys cycling.

    Kids/creches/school runs do not make cycling impossible. They can add some complications for sure, but if you want to make it happen, you can make it happen.

    https://www.sciencekiddo.com/cargo-bike-vs-bike-trailer/

    I'm not quite sure that 'hell' is a fair description of this scenario.
    Cargo-Bike-500x500.jpg
    If you live a busy traffic area at a busy school, you'll probably get 10-30 extra minutes in bed as result of not being stuck in traffic at the school run, and not having to find safe parking at the school. Sorry, scrap that last bit - just stop your car wherever you like, regardless of the danger and inconvenience you cause for other people.

    But I really wonder why some people object to cycling being mentioned. It's not compulsory. No-one has to follow that or any of the suggestions here. It's just one of many suggestions. What's the problem with mentioning it?


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    #52
    muttnjeff
    Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭muttnjeff


    I would look at schools in portabello. if there are primary schools close to you then the children will have friends close by. As regards garden -kids dont need all that much space-if you have enough room for a dog/bar b q/table and chairs/shed /room to skip/kick,puck a ball against a wall you have enough space.The rest is just maintenance! if the garden is only a yard and you are constantly on the road at the weekend going to parks I would move. Weekends are for chilling and that includes not having to leave the garden if you dont want to.
    I would consider a commute from outer suburbs will take approx one and a half hours realistically. I would imagine for a nine am start you would need to be leaving for train/dart/luas at half seven? Thats an hour before children need to leave to go to a local school no matter where you are.you would need to get a minder to come into the house.
    I have a 3/4 acre garden. My children have to be driven everywhere. When they were younger they played on the deck area-and the rest was ignored:)so i wouldnt be banking on the bigger garden just for their benefit.


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    #53
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    helimachoptor wrote: »
    Op, could you drop kids in car.. park somewhere and then cycle?

    There's a guy that parks across from my house who does that for that very reason.

    Drops kids to child minder, drives to my road (south county dub from Bray), takes out bike and cycles in office (ifsc area).

    From chatting to him, allows flexibility for him/his wife, takes about 20 mins to get from childminder to my road, he's no parking and doesnt want to pay, the time from getting onto his bike to work is pretty consistent, makes him fitter etc.

    Just on the no showering facilities, could you join a gym, chances are with this approach you'd save enough money each week to pay for it

    The OP has already expressed a disinterest in cycling. What is it with this forum and cycling these days. It doesn't suit everyone and some people just aren't into being the transport equivalent of vegans.

    OP, Killiney is hardly Offaly , kids will be grand and you'll be happier for the space outside the city as well as being able to leave the kids out without as much to worry about with anti-social behaviour / junkies etc...


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    #54
    wersal gummage
    Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭wersal gummage


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    The OP has already expressed a disinterest in cycling. What is it with this forum and cycling these days. It doesn't suit everyone and some people just aren't into being the transport equivalent of vegans.

    OP, Killiney is hardly Offaly , kids will be grand and you'll be happier for the space outside the city as well as being able to leave the kids out without as much to worry about with anti-social behaviour / junkies etc...

    Thank you! And just to state AGAIN that I am a cyclist! I have 4 bikes, together worth more than most small cars... Based on the last decade cycling into and around the city centre, I would not put my kids in a bicycle trailer in winter rush hour (I don't judge those that do, but I chose not to).


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    wersal gummage wrote: »
    Thanks. But just to be clear, what are the reasons you'd chose further out? Its still an extra hour plus X 2 (for two people) every day of the week... Its a lot of extra money spent commuting, and I find, while the Dart is great, it can also be frustrating at times and very busy... So a lot of commuting and time spent... V a short stroll home... I'm not trying to be argumentative, but would just appreciate if you could explain your reasoning on why it's worth all that for the bigger garden etc.... Thanks!

    On seeing more details I think I'm coming at it from a point of view which isn't comparable. I was thinking of a rural area where you would have a significantly bigger house and lots of private area around it rather than living in an estate closer to the city compared to an estate further out.

    For me neither of the options would be appealing, I'd be looking at more like 25km outside the city (though its not Dublin) with about an hours drive to/from the city centre at rush hour (much less if you can avoid the peak rush hour which I generally can) but having a house probably twice or more the size of what you would have in an estate along with lots of private ground, space for a garage etc etc. I would much prefer this with kids too as they have lots of space to play as children and when they get older they cant just walk to town so much easier stop them hanging around corners etc. Having grown up rurally I'd hate to grow up in a city or even an estate in the suburbs, but as I said this really isn't comparable with the situation you are asking for advise on. Good luck with the decision.


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    #56
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    The OP has already expressed a disinterest in cycling. What is it with this forum and cycling these days. It doesn't suit everyone and some people just aren't into being the transport equivalent of vegans.

    OP, Killiney is hardly Offaly , kids will be grand and you'll be happier for the space outside the city as well as being able to leave the kids out without as much to worry about with anti-social behaviour / junkies etc...


    It's practical, and as said a few times, a mix of driving/cycling could be a real solution. It's been suggested so many times because there are people with real experience who think it will work for the OP


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    #57
    wersal gummage
    Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭wersal gummage


    muttnjeff wrote: »
    I would look at schools in portabello. if there are primary schools close to you then the children will have friends close by. As regards garden -kids dont need all that much space-if you have enough room for a dog/bar b q/table and chairs/shed /room to skip/kick,puck a ball against a wall you have enough space.The rest is just maintenance! if the garden is only a yard and you are constantly on the road at the weekend going to parks I would move. Weekends are for chilling and that includes not having to leave the garden if you dont want to.
    I would consider a commute from outer suburbs will take approx one and a half hours realistically. I would imagine for a nine am start you would need to be leaving for train/dart/luas at half seven? Thats an hour before children need to leave to go to a local school no matter where you are.you would need to get a minder to come into the house.
    I have a 3/4 acre garden. My children have to be driven everywhere. When they were younger they played on the deck area-and the rest was ignored:)so i wouldnt be banking on the bigger garden just for their benefit.

    Thanks! This is the stuff I wanted to ask about! Not argue with cyclists!


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    #58
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    wersal gummage wrote: »
    Thank you! And just to state AGAIN that I am a cyclist! I have 4 bikes, together worth more than most small cars... Based on the last decade cycling into and around the city centre, I would not put my kids in a bicycle trailer in winter rush hour (I don't judge those that do, but I chose not to).

    Dont put them in, put them in the car, drop to creche, jump on bike and cycle into work.
    I am 22 mins door to door from south county dub. Including walking to bus, bus journey, walking at other end, its at least an hour.


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    #59
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    helimachoptor wrote: »
    It's practical, and as said a few times, a mix of driving/cycling could be a real solution. It's been suggested so many times because there are people with real experience who think it will work for the OP

    its literally the one thing the OP ruled out and you keep pushing it, derailing the thread to find a new way to shove cycling down throats, the OP is already a cyclist, doesn't fancy it with a kid, move along.


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    #60
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    helimachoptor wrote: »
    Op, could you drop kids in car.. park somewhere and then cycle?

    There's a guy that parks across from my house who does that for that very reason.

    Drops kids to child minder, drives to my road (south county dub from Bray), takes out bike and cycles in office (ifsc area).

    From chatting to him, allows flexibility for him/his wife, takes about 20 mins to get from childminder to my road, he's no parking and doesnt want to pay, the time from getting onto his bike to work is pretty consistent, makes him fitter etc.

    Just on the no showering facilities, could you join a gym, chances are with this approach you'd save enough money each week to pay for it
    helimachoptor wrote: »
    It's practical, and as said a few times, a mix of driving/cycling could be a real solution. It's been suggested so many times because there are people with real experience who think it will work for the OP
    helimachoptor wrote: »
    Dont put them in, put them in the car, drop to creche, jump on bike and cycle into work.
    I am 22 mins door to door from south county dub. Including walking to bus, bus journey, walking at other end, its at least an hour.
    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    its literally the one thing the OP ruled out and you keep pushing it, derailing the thread to find a new way to shove cycling down throats, the OP is already a cyclist, doesn't fancy it with a kid, move along.


    3 posts all saying mix the driving/cycling, so how about you read the post and stop with the "pushing the cyclist agenda" ****e


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    #61
    wersal gummage
    Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭wersal gummage


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    OP, Killiney is hardly Offaly , kids will be grand and you'll be happier for the space outside the city as well as being able to leave the kids out without as much to worry about with anti-social behaviour / junkies etc...

    Thanks. Again, not suggesting a Dublin suburb is some arduous trek! I've said this already. So it'd be social issues / crime etc that you'd be concerned with? I grew up in suburbs and nearly everywhere is close to somewhere less desirable but I guess more so in town alright.


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