Balancing house v commute

seabelle

Hi OP, there's been a lot of focus on the commute but before you make the decision you should reflect on what more house might mean for you and your family. Your kids are young now but they might appreciate the space in a few years time, if you don't have room for a separate playroom where you live now that could make a difference to your day to day life. Something that suits you now might make you feel like you're all living on top of each other when the kids are older and as they get into sports and hobbies that's a lot of stuff that'll need to be stored.

Maybe try looking at how much house your money could get further out and see if the lifestyle that would allow you to live appeals to you. If a house further away doesn't give you enough advantages to outweigh the additional commute then you have your answer.

katiemmm

I think as long as you live within cycling distance you'll be fine. I used to cycle to work and it helped me lose some weight (which was an added bonus!!!). I also felt really awake when I got to work

wersal gummage

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Kids/creches/school runs do not make cycling impossible. They can add some complications for sure, but if you want to make it happen, you can make it happen.

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Ok Andrew, for the sake of argument, let's say I go with this. You acknowledge its more complicated but let's say I get up in the morning, drive to crèche, then cycle to work, then have shower in work etc... One alternative to this is to live 20 or 30 mins walk from work and drop the kids on the walk in. So why would I go with the cycling option? What is so much better about living in that location? That's what I'm interested in!

awec

seabelle wrote: »

Hi OP, there's been a lot of focus on the commute but before you make the decision you should reflect on what more house might mean for you and your family. Your kids are young now but they might appreciate the space in a few years time, if you don't have room for a separate playroom where you live now that could make a difference to your day to day life. Something that suits you now might make you feel like you're all living on top of each other when the kids are older and as they get into sports and hobbies that's a lot of stuff that'll need to be stored.

Maybe try looking at how much house your money could get further out and see if the lifestyle that would allow you to live appeals to you. If a house further away doesn't give you enough advantages to outweigh the additional commute then you have your answer.

If more than 5% of children grow up in a house with a "playroom" I'll be amazed.

muttnjeff

I was born and reared in the city and high on my priority list when buying a house was being on public transport route and staying within city. We did this and lived in a very nice area. When children arrived i felt differently and we moved to the country but still within easy enough commute to city. I have to drive my kids everywhere--HOWEVER--i like doing this-now that they are teens as i know exactly where they are as they have to be collected. if your children can walk everywhere will you still see that as an advantage when they are older-or more to the point -when they are in that grey area between 13 and 17? (So called 'grey area' because that is the colour your hair will be from them!!!)its fine during the day but would you feel the same on dark evenings in the city centre if they want to walk to the cinema etc.

PhoenixParker

Wersals question is I think better framed as a 1 hour commute by whatever means vs a close distance commute by whatever means, but the distance being small enough to walk.

Personally I'd go for the closest area where other young families live. Two hours a day is two hours and it's a hassle but if you're not near other young families you'll end up traipsing around more for activities and to meet friends as they get older.

Leaving aside the cycling, having an active component to your commute and day to day life is great for physical and mental health. Walk to work, walk to the local shop, walk to football training etc. It's a great way to live, and the lack of density in the outer suburbs means there's usually limited range of walkable amenities.

House size is less important than people think. There's a bare minimum but above that layout, decent storage and managing your possessions will make it workable.

Outdoor space and the infamous big garden is massively over-rated by most people. Unless you're having a gaggle of kids and they're in the house after school & on holidays, when exactly does it get used and who are your kids going to play with in it?

Gumbo

Mod Note.

This cycling debate has the possibility to derail the thread and create a mess.
No more offers of how the OP can cycle (even if it is an option), I think the OP is aware of that option by now.

If the OP wants to discuss cycling as an option they can clearly state it here or PM me.


Let’s drop it now.

Thanks.

AndrewJRenko

wersal gummage wrote: »

Ok Andrew, for the sake of argument, let's say I go with this. You acknowledge its more complicated but let's say I get up in the morning, drive to crèche, then cycle to work, then have shower in work etc... One alternative to this is to live 20 or 30 mins walk from work and drop the kids on the walk in. So why would I go with the cycling option? What is so much better about living in that location? That's what I'm interested in!

Funnily enough, when I was suggesting cycling as an option, I was thinking about the longer 10km commute from the 'burbs, rather than the 20-30 minute walk. I'm a huge cycling fan, but when I lived 20-30 minutes walk from work, I chose the 20-30 minute walk instead of the 5-8 minute cycle mainly so I could get in some exercise on the walk. With the very short cycle journey, I found I was spending more time farting around with helmets and locks than actually cycling. It just wasn't worth it.

But for the long commute, it gives you the chance to avoid crowded public transport, avoid traffic queues, get some exercise into your commute and cut your cancer risk in half. What's not to like?

But if it's not for you, so be it.

muttnjeff wrote: »

I was born and reared in the city and high on my priority list when buying a house was being on public transport route and staying within city. We did this and lived in a very nice area. When children arrived i felt differently and we moved to the country but still within easy enough commute to city. I have to drive my kids everywhere--HOWEVER--i like doing this-now that they are teens as i know exactly where they are as they have to be collected. if your children can walk everywhere will you still see that as an advantage when they are older-or more to the point -when they are in that grey area between 13 and 17? (So called 'grey area' because that is the colour your hair will be from them!!!)its fine during the day but would you feel the same on dark evenings in the city centre if they want to walk to the cinema etc.

Honestly, I think this is a mad idea. I was helping out outside the Longitude gigs at the weekend, and I was amazed at the number of late teens/young adults who had absolutely no sense of direction and apparently no ability to do any kind of independent travel. It's great to be able to pick up your kids when necessary, when they're late or in an area that isn't great, but the idea of making your kids dependant on parents' cars is a recipe for dependence and obesity.

wersal gummage

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Wersals question is I think better framed as a 1 hour commute by whatever means vs a close distance commute by whatever means, but the distance being small enough to walk.

Thanks, and indeed that is getting to the issue I wanted views on (and thanks for your views). I'd just go a bit further and say that I don't actually want to discuss commuting at such, but the perceived advantages FOR CHILDREN that may come with buying a house that, in turn, takes longer to get to and from. So trade offs or compromises. Living in a smaller house in the centre (or close to the centre) of Dublin, as opposed to living in possibly a bigger house further out

Edit, and not really about just the size of the house but other things like friends, schools, clubs etc.. Was interested really to hear from people maybe with kids who live or lived in or very near the city and any positives or negatives.

wersal gummage

John_Rambo wrote: »

Was this thread dumped on the cycling forum because a mod didn't like cycling being put forward as a commute option?

I don't think so...

I asked a question which I thought was straightforward, but in hindsight I wasn't clear enough. I'm just interested, mainly in parents views, of whether living in a suburb that takes 2 hours of commuting a day has some great advantages for kids in particular. I'm inclined towards living closer to the city centre and commuting for a total of one hour max a day. I think people then thought I was asking questions about how to commute and a few people started really pushing the cycling angle, and so maybe the mod person thought it was more about cycling?

seabelle

awec wrote: »

If more than 5% of children grow up in a house with a "playroom" I'll be amazed.

You don't have to call it a playroom but a room for the kids to play and be a bit messy with their toys that isn't their bedroom or the main living room can be handy, it all depends on how small the OP's home is now whether extra space would be useful. Some things can be managed with layout changes but below a certain size can be more difficult for a family to manage.

Personally I would find it hard to trade being walking distance from everything for anything but it really depends on how comfortable and suitable the OP's current home is for a family of 4 and the lifestyle they want to lead. Children tend to accumulate stuff as they grow, bikes, tricycles and scooters can be difficult to store in innercity housing often clogging up the hallway and being a trip hazard. OP's children are small and portable now but if they're going to run out of space where they are it might be smart to get ahead of it now but if a move further out is more of a trade sideways then it may not be worth it.

Cyrus

We live in the Siberian outpost that is Dalkey !

I wouldn’t swap it we lived in Blackrock for 10 years and more recently moved out here. Didn’t cost any less but I love being by the sea , Dalkey town is great , Killiney hill is a brilliant amenity , schools around are excellent , area is very safe and the dart works for us .

Really no matter what you decide to do one of you will have to make some sacrifices at work, you can’t have kids and both prioritise your careers or rarely works. What we do is I drop off in the morning and my wife gets in for 7.30 and then she leaves at 5 to collect from crèche and I work later , longer term hopefully she will work a reduced working week. She has taken a step back in terms of her career ambitions to make it workable for now.

I think you also need to link an example of the kinds of houses you are comparing , as someone else posted out Killiney is unlikely to be any cheaper on a per sq foot basis so where exactly were you thinking of?

muttnjeff

quote-Honestly, I think this is a mad idea. I was helping out outside the Longitude gigs at the weekend, and I was amazed at the number of late teens/young adults who had absolutely no sense of direction and apparently no ability to do any kind of independent travel. It's great to be able to pick up your kids when necessary, when they're late or in an area that isn't great, but the idea of making your kids dependant on parents' cars is a recipe for dependence and obesity.[/QUOTE]

not exactly comparing like with like really-Kids travel to longitude from all over and anyone coming out of a concert would not necessarily have a clue where they are or which way to go when they come out whether they are used to being collected or not but i get your point about the 'fat kids in cars bit'. thankfully we are a bit more balanced than that and were saved from the curse of obesity! it just really just meant they got their own cars earlier than their mates so that they werent dependent on mums taxi etc. Things are never that black and white anyway-just giving another perspective to the OP who's kids are very young at the moment:D

paulieeye

is there anything to be said about cycling? Cycling through the different pros and cons about a bigger house compared to a longer commute that is??? :pac:

Graham

Mod Note

OP has stated quite clearly cycling is not an option. Move on please.

The question is:

whether it's worth spending an additional hour (or more) commuting each day (for two people), in order to have a slightly bigger house.

_Dara_

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Funnily enough, when I was suggesting cycling as an option, I was thinking about the longer 10km commute from the 'burbs, rather than the 20-30 minute walk. I'm a huge cycling fan, but when I lived 20-30 minutes walk from work, I chose the 20-30 minute walk instead of the 5-8 minute cycle mainly so I could get in some exercise on the walk. With the very short cycle journey, I found I was spending more time farting around with helmets and locks than actually cycling. It just wasn't worth it.

But for the long commute, it gives you the chance to avoid crowded public transport, avoid traffic queues, get some exercise into your commute and cut your cancer risk in half. What's not to like?

But if it's not for you, so be it.



Honestly, I think this is a mad idea. I was helping out outside the Longitude gigs at the weekend, and I was amazed at the number of late teens/young adults who had absolutely no sense of direction and apparently no ability to do any kind of independent travel. It's great to be able to pick up your kids when necessary, when they're late or in an area that isn't great, but the idea of making your kids dependant on parents' cars is a recipe for dependence and obesity.

Huh? For any child or teenager growing up in a rural area (and that’s a lot of Ireland’s children and teens), being ferried around by car is generally the only option. A recipe for dependence and obesity? What? If anything, access to crappy food is much more difficult if you can’t walk to the shop or takeaway. I’m speaking from experience there. I’d be amazed if there was any appreciable urban/rural divide in obesity rates.

As for a lack of sense of direction, I don’t know if there’s any correlation really.

Rubberchikken

The bigger garden/house is great when kids are young but they lose interest in needing garden fir activities as they age and youre left with a large garden that may be a lot of effort and only used on rare summer days.
I wouldnt be a fan of a long commute, either distance or time wise. It does eat into whats left of an evening and while kids will stay up later as they get older and wont always want to spend play time with parents, they might need help with homework and even just time to chat before bed.
If youre happy in city and could see yourself and your family happy in a smaller house/garden but with ability to walk to work and maybe even school then the benefits of city life outweigh moving further out.
Good luck with decision

Cyrus

I think the op is talking about one city suburb versus another not Dublin v kilmacanogue

You can walk to school in most of the suburbs as well!

Again it comes down to specific properties , it’s nice having a garden to spend time in not just for kids and you find yourself having people over more often as you have space to entertain.

4ensic15

Commuting is getting slower all the time. Every new traffic light, one-way system, causes delay. What used to be a 20-minute easy drive is now an hour. Rush hour is now almost all day. It will only get worse.

annoyedgal

We moved from a small two bed terrace with yard in a fantastic city location to a large house with big garden in Portmarnock.
I'll admit straight off i have a shorter commute now, my husbands is longer but he can cycle to work in 35 minutes so no complaining there.
Pros for us are
5 mins to beach for the kids
Tons of kids clubs
Excellent schools
Garden
Space
Our own driveway and parking space!
Lots of open green spaces and more rural feel
Good transport links
No city centre traffic

Cons
Taking the car out more often, we literally walked everywhere before
Less choice in terms of pubs and restaurants within a kilometre radius
Missing the buzz of the city centre


The last two matter less now that we have a toddler and newborn! Our oldest is a different child since we moved, loves the extra space and the beach.
I was very apprehensive about the move as i love the city and convience of walking everywhere but its been a great move.
Lastly think long and hard about school places where you are now and where you are going. Our previous location was lacking in terms of good schools and this was a real motivator for our move.

helimachoptor

fwiw OP, when we were buying we considered the below.


1) for us it was always the suburbs, really it was which one. We went with cabinteely, close to Sandyford where my wife works and is likely to stay for a while. Easy access to town on the QBC for me whether bus/bike. I dont drive in bar maybe once every 6-8 weeks tbh

2) Close to primary schools, 2 mins in car, 5 mins on bike. Close to secondary or schools or depending on where they go, accessible by bus. Assuming they go to college in Dublin, QBC will get them into town

3) Close to the outdoors, killiney hill/beach, the park cabinteely, wicklow etc all pretty close

4) A big part for us was garden, initially I was very much in the "small bit of tarmac" however after seeing a few houses, I changed my mind, our garden is about 550 sq m, its in use pretty regularly from March-October, maintenance is fine tbh.

AndrewJRenko

_Dara_ wrote: »

Huh? For any child or teenager growing up in a rural area (and that’s a lot of Ireland’s children and teens), being ferried around by car is generally the only option. A recipe for dependence and obesity? What? If anything, access to crappy food is much more difficult if you can’t walk to the shop or takeaway. I’m speaking from experience there. I’d be amazed if there was any appreciable urban/rural divide in obesity rates.

As for a lack of sense of direction, I don’t know if there’s any correlation really.

I was just responding to the poster who was positing kids needing to be ferried round by car ALL the time as a positive. I can't see how it is a benefit of anything.

LirW

Let's approach this differently because it seems OP wants to buy and we all know that this is generally a long-term commitment. Your children aren't going to be small forever, in the lifetime of a mortgage it's relatively short. Time flies by like crazy anyway and you're looking within Dublin where there's no lack of amenities and schools.
Where do you see yourself in 10 years from now on? In a small house with courtyard quite central or enjoying a quiet suburban life with gardening and bbq-parties in the summer? While I'm aware at the moment cycling is no option it could very well be in the future again.
Unless you want to sell up in a few years time and it's not your forever home I'd be inclined to take the long-term view into account now. In 10 years both your children are moody teenagers and have little interest in hanging at home with their parents, which means they don't need the supervision that they require now and once that's the case where would you rather be? Which location would you and your wife enjoy more in the future?
Don't forget you're still in Dublin after all, jobs can move, you don't know if you'll stay in the same office for the next 5 years and suddenly the location closer to work could be further away then.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I was just responding to the poster who was positing kids needing to be ferried round by car ALL the time as a positive. I can't see how it is a benefit of anything.

It's a big benefit imo especially when they are teens and can be kept under much closer supervision when they can't just go places under their own steam.

Bringing kids around anyway other than by car is a massive chore and even most people who live in town use the car for the majority of trips involving kids. Anyone I know with kids have a full boot every time they leave the house how would they get all that stuff around by other means.

awec

Gunnar Tinkling Schoolroom wrote: »

It's a big benefit imo especially when they are teens and can be kept under much closer supervision when they can't just go places under their own steam.

Bringing kids around anyway other than by car is a massive chore and even most people who live in town use the car for the majority of trips involving kids. Anyone I know with kids have a full boot every time they leave the house how would they get all that stuff around by other means.

What you're saying is it's good that it is such a nuisance for your children to go meet with other children that it means they'll probably be forced to sit at home most of the time bored out of their head? Ha! How ridiculous.

4ensic15

I know a few people who settled outside a town in rural areas. Their job caused them to move and sell up. A few years later they transferred back. All bought in the town the second time. Go figure.

awec

4ensic15 wrote: »

I know a few people who settled outside a town in rural areas. Their job caused them to move and sell up. A few years later they transferred back. All bought in the town the second time. Go figure.

Life in rural Ireland is a huge lifestyle change for most people. It's an acquired taste. It is not surprising that people who do not grow up in rural areas, but who subsequently move there, often cannot stick the boredom and remoteness.

awec

awec wrote: »

What you're saying is it's good that it is such a nuisance for your children to go meet with other children that it means they'll probably be forced to sit at home most of the time bored out of their head? Ha! How ridiculous.

I grew up in the a rural area and was always meeting friends, either walking to ones near by or being dropped to friends houses further away. I was never bored between playing with friends, playing sport or working on the farm.

As a teen I was dropped to other friends houses or we were dropped and collected from the cinema etc with no chance to be hanging around in feral packs like all the townies did.

Try_harder

Kiliney is on the dart, easy for commuting

I dont think Portabello would be an ideal place to raise young kids, single in your 20's- perfect.

So I vote Kiliney

CramCycle

As someone who grew up in the countryside, the ferrying around bit is a bit misleading. Only really for sports matches and a friends house that is the other side of the community. When I wasn't working on the farm I was on my bike or walking to a friends house. We would them walk to a lake, dolmen, abandoned house etc. and play for the day. Ferrying around all the time is more to do with the parents than the child.

Doesn't apply here anyway as the OPs options are both in town.

Both have their positives and negatives but to be honest, there is little between them, pick the area you want to live in and the rest will work out in this scenario.