Balancing house v commute

wersal gummage

Hi there,

Would be great to hear people's experiences / views in relation to living in a small house near town v living in a larger house a bit further out... 2 full time employees (pressure, long hours etc) and 2 young kids under 5...

Living in town means shorter commute ( walking distance ) and less costs on commuting. Home quicker, easier to make it to childcare on time, more time to spend with kids in the evenings... Lots of local services, school choices etc... But less living space, kids are either in small garden / patio or brought to a park..

Living a bit further out (under 10km on good transport for sake of argument), more space, possibly kids can play on the road / green area with kids, more parks etc nearby... But by time get home in the evenings etc that benefit is really only for the weekend?

So commute Monday to Friday and have public spaces / garden etc on the weekend, or live near work, take away the stress of commuting, and maybe "commute" out to a nice park / seaside etc at the weekend?

Trying to weigh it up and would be great to hear people's views, ideally people who have made a similar decision... Do you regret it? Have I missed any major advantages / disadvantages?

Thoie

Friends moved to a more rural area when their kids were young, and have now moved back into town. As the kids hit secondary school and want to start seeing their friends after school, the parents were spending a huge amount of time driving them around the place. Even when the kids were 8,9,10 there was a lot of driving to bring them to football, swimming, etc.

The bigger garden/outdoor space is more beneficial when they're small, but as they get older being closer to "town" seems handier.

Shedite27

We went location over size, 3 bed terrace with a modest garden in Dublin. It's big enough (probably 5m by 15m) to have a BBQ, shed, dog etc, but won't be playing football out there.

For me the commute was a big thing. What's the point in having a big garden to play with the kids if you're not home till 7.30 anyway. It also allows us to cycle to work when we want, and never put out by bus strikes, traffic etc.

Then there's the general upkeep of the garden. Bigger garden means you spend those sunny Saturdays taking care of your garden rather than enjoying it.

And finally, these last few weeks, our kids want to go to the beach/park at every opportunity. However big my garden is, it's not gonna have a beach or full playground there to entertain them.

jon1981

Be careful with the moving out to rural with the plan to move back to city strategy... you might end up being priced out of city locations as the prices will increase far quicker than rural.


For me, reduced commute time leading to quality family time trumps space/garden ...etc. No good having the huge pad if you can't get home to enjoy it or you're spending your weekend ferrying kids 4-6 miles to friends houses, activities, bus stops. train stations...etc.

p.s. I might add that I have my own hobbies and social connections that I'd also like to retain, so moving to a rural situation coupled with a large commute would mean total personal sacrifice on "me time" and I don't think that's healthy. Maybe that's selfish but I don't care if that's how people interpret it.

tinofapples

It'll all come down to personal preference but I made the decision to settle rurally and I certainly do see the cons. I love where I live, I do not love the commute to work !!

jonnybravo

wersal gummage wrote: »

Hi there,

Would be great to hear people's experiences / views in relation to living in a small house near town v living in a larger house a bit further out... 2 full time employees (pressure, long hours etc) and 2 young kids under 5...

Living in town means shorter commute ( walking distance ) and less costs on commuting. Home quicker, easier to make it to childcare on time, more time to spend with kids in the evenings... Lots of local services, school choices etc... But less living space, kids are either in small garden / patio or brought to a park..

Living a bit further out (under 10km on good transport for sake of argument), more space, possibly kids can play on the road / green area with kids, more parks etc nearby... But by time get home in the evenings etc that benefit is really only for the weekend?

So commute Monday to Friday and have public spaces / garden etc on the weekend, or live near work, take away the stress of commuting, and maybe "commute" out to a nice park / seaside etc at the weekend?

Trying to weigh it up and would be great to hear people's views, ideally people who have made a similar decision... Do you regret it? Have I missed any major advantages / disadvantages?

10km isn't that far away in fairness. I live about 10kms away from work and cycle there and home again in around 30 mins. If it was me and 10kms away I'd take the bigger house. If it was further out (like an hour plus commute) I'd take the smaller house and less commute time.

budhabob

Having done the bigger commute for a number of years, its all about location now for me. So settled for a 3 bed terrace house, decent garden, near a large green, and close to 3 - 4 parks. best of all worlds.

jon1981

2 full time employees (pressure, long hours etc) and 2 young kids under 5

To add this , when the kids are sick (it will happen), it's just added pressure for both you to rush home. I think if both of you are working high pressure jobs the last thing you want is commute stress added to your day.

10km is nothing. Bigger house and more space every-time for me. Not even in relation to the kids but just for myself having more space and a bigger house can't be beaten imo.

That's from the perspective of someone who grew up rurally and only lived in or near a city from the age of about 24 onwards. After 10 years in estates in or near a city I could not see myself settling down anywhere but back rurally.

PlaneSpeeking

Gunnar Tinkling Schoolroom wrote: »

10km is nothing. Bigger house and more space every-time for me. Not even in relation to the kids but just for myself having more space and a bigger house can't be beaten imo.

That's from the perspective of someone who grew up rurally and only lived in or near a city from the age of about 24 onwards. After 10 years in estates in or near a city I could not see myself settling down anywhere but back rurally.

Not to come over all Mick Dundee but 10km isn't a commute - 80km is a commute!!

I love the fact that I can leave Dublin in the background and head down the country - Co. Laois.

For what I pay for a detached bungalow I doubt you'd get a room share in the city. The commute is long but tbh it's train/LUAS/LUAS and after nearly 11 year I'm used to it.

Rural and commute for me every time.

TheBlock

10km on a 125 scooter is 15 Mins....

wersal gummage

Thanks for all the comments.

Just to clarify, there's no rural issue. I'm talking about something like Portobello v Killiney etc... So 20/35 min walk to work v possibly 15 min walk to dart, 30/40 mins dart, another 15 mins walk....

I never used the word rural and don't consider an hours commute on the dart to be rural, or arduous etc!! But the original questions remain the same, smaller house and quick into and out of work, or bigger house with decent garden and double the door to door time each day.

paulieeye

We went for location also.

As with most, it was all down to the commute. I really couldnt handle an 2hour+ commute daily and being at the mercy of the M50 constantly. Plus i'm on a motorbike so the added stress of getting taken out on a long commute in heavy traffic wasnt too appealing.

Also having what dublin offers a bus ride away is invaluable. You dont have to be out and about 5 nights a week, its the options that it gives, the spontaneity if allows for, drinks after work with having a military style operation to plan.

The downside is bigger costs and the smaller space you have. But for us the cons out weighed the pros.

edit: oh u meant Portobello v Killiney, in which case...bigger place and get a motorbike...you'll be into town in 15mins

wersal gummage

TheBlock wrote: »

10km on a 125 scooter is 15 Mins....

Yes I'll suggest this to the wife and the 4 year old and 2 year old in a side car?!

wersal gummage

Rather than quoting people,

Cycling an option in the future when kids can go to school by themselves, a long way off unfortunately. No parking available at work so public transport only. Countryside (Laois etc) not attractive option for us (but can see how it would be for others). I know people say 10km is nothing, and I agree it's not bad, but it's 1hr plus twice a day v a 20 min walk each way.... So it's that sort of thing we are considering really.

GingerLily

wersal gummage wrote: »

Rather than quoting people,

Cycling an option in the future when kids can go to school by themselves, a long way off unfortunately. No parking available at work so public transport only. Countryside (Laois etc) not attractive option for us (but can see how it would be for others). I know people say 10km is nothing, and I agree it's not bad, but it's 1hr plus twice a day v a 20 min walk each way.... So it's that sort of thing we are considering really.

10km to work in Dublin CC could be a very long commute, I think some posters over simplify things! Not everyone can cycle to work.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Somewhere like Portobello v Killiney when you have young kids is a no-brainer for me - out to the sticks (well, relatively speaking!) with you!

If it was a case that you were looking at moving to Kilcock or Navan or similar, that's a different story.

wersal gummage

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

Somewhere like Portobello v Killiney when you have young kids is a no-brainer for me - out to the sticks (well, relatively speaking!) with you!

If it was a case that you were looking at moving to Kilcock or Navan or similar, that's a different story.

Could you explain why you think that? I'm interested to hear!

My view is one of us can leave work at 6 and be home by 6.30. That's 60 mins before bedtime.... Or can get to Killiney for about 7.15... Which is 15 Mins before bedtime... OK Killiney would be a nicer house, bigger house and a garden etc...

AndrewJRenko

GingerLily wrote: »

10km to work in Dublin CC could be a very long commute, I think some posters over simplify things! Not everyone can cycle to work.

10km is very easily cycled -35-45 minutes, depending on your fitness levels. You'll have built your cardio exercise into your daily routine, so no more hanging round the gym at 6am or 9pm.

GingerLily

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

10km is very easily cycled -35-45 minutes, depending on your fitness levels. You'll have built your cardio exercise into your daily routine, so no more hanging round the gym at 6am or 9pm.

Not everyone works in am office with bike facilities, not everyone has good roads for commuting, especially in the winter

wersal gummage

wersal gummage wrote: »

.............
Living in town means shorter commute ( walking distance ) and less costs on commuting......................

Living a bit further out (under 10km on good transport for sake of argument), .............

10km commute is nothing unless you are walking it.

wersal gummage

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

10km is very easily cycled -35-45 minutes, depending on your fitness levels. You'll have built your cardio exercise into your daily routine, so no more hanging round the gym at 6am or 9pm.

It's a fair point, and I am a cyclist and can cycle 100 plus km without difficulty, so a commute is easy.... But.... I have 2 young kids to drop to crèche and, soon, schools.... So biking not really an option for the next few years.

wersal gummage

wersal gummage wrote: »

Could you explain why you think that? I'm interested to hear!

My view is one of us can leave work at 6 and be home by 6.30. That's 60 mins before bedtime.... Or can get to Killiney for about 7.15... Which is 15 Mins before bedtime... OK Killiney would be a nicer house, bigger house and a garden etc...

7:30 is a very early bedtime for kids at nearly school going age and even if its bed time now it wont be that early for long so I wouldn't be using that as a guide on where to live.

wersal gummage

Augeo wrote: »

10km commute is nothing unless you are walking it.

I am grateful for comments, but this isn't exactly well elaborated. I'm asking specifically whether it's worth spending an additional hour (or more) each day (for two people), in order to have a slightly bigger house. I'm really not looking for people's views on how easy it is to cycle, walk, moped etc 10kms... Really looking for any experience people had of living in the city with young kids, was it great or terrible? Is the extra time spend commuting worth it to have a bigger garden etc but not see as much of the kids? Do kids in town find or harder to have friends nearby, are the suburbs more suited with kids nearby etc? Things like that...

wersal gummage

Gunnar Tinkling Schoolroom wrote: »

7:30 is a very early bedtime for kids at nearly school going age and even if its bed time now it wont be that early for long so I wouldn't be using that as a guide on where to live.

Thanks. But just to be clear, what are the reasons you'd chose further out? Its still an extra hour plus X 2 (for two people) every day of the week... Its a lot of extra money spent commuting, and I find, while the Dart is great, it can also be frustrating at times and very busy... So a lot of commuting and time spent... V a short stroll home... I'm not trying to be argumentative, but would just appreciate if you could explain your reasoning on why it's worth all that for the bigger garden etc.... Thanks!

TheBlock

wersal gummage wrote: »

It's a fair point, and I am a cyclist and can cycle 100 plus km without difficulty, so a commute is easy.... But.... I have 2 young kids to drop to crèche and, soon, schools.... So biking not really an option for the next few years.

Are there no suitable schools/creches close to where you would be commuting from?

Do you and your other half both work together? Both Commute together? We moved from two car to one car family. I drop kids to school in the morning 10 Min Walk and then bike to work. She startsand finishes early and does the ollection from after school.

It really depends on both locations and the facilities around them.

wersal gummage

wersal gummage wrote: »

I am grateful for comments, but this isn't exactly well elaborated. ............

To be fair your OP is brutal and lacking in detail.
You could have thrown in the Portobello v Killiney detail there and then.

Commuting an hour on public transport sounds like hell to me.
so too does living in Portobello and raising a family there, stonesthrow from Dolphin's Barn etc.

wersal gummage

TheBlock wrote: »

Are there no suitable schools/creches close to where you would be commuting from?

Do you and your other half both work together? Both Commute together? We moved from two car to one car family. I drop kids to school in the morning 10 Min Walk and then bike to work. She startsand finishes early and does the ollection from after school.

It really depends on both locations and the facilities around them.

Don't work together. Both work City centre. Neither have parking. Neither willing to pay for on street parking or rent a parking space in town. So it's bus /dart /luas etc.... Will happily cycle in a few years but not an option.

I've no doubt there are creches etc in Killiney (I'm only using that as an example, could be Sutton or Stillorgan etc). Neither of us can get to Sutton /Killiney etc for 6pm so would be crèche plus some kind of additional costs then for a nanny.?

wersal gummage

Augeo wrote: »

To be fair your OP is brutal and lacking in detail.
You could have thrown in the Portobello v Killiney detail there and then.

Commuting an hour on public transport sounds like hell to me.
so too does living in Portobello and raising a family there, stonesthrow from Dolphin's Barn etc.

They are just examples. Could as easily be Sandymount v Sutton. Same thing. Commuting on public transport for bugger house v a walk to work...

.......

This post has been deleted.

jon1981

I use a child seat for the 1.5km trip to the creche and I've two in laws who drop 2 kids each to same creche using a trailer. The creche lets them lock the trailers outside and collect on the return trip home.

GingerLily

wersal gummage wrote: »

They are just examples. Could as easily be Sandymount v Sutton. Same thing. Commuting on public transport for bugger house v a walk to work...

Honestly, it's hard to advise without knowing your budget.

Its a balance between the two and your budget will dictate how much you have to compromise

GingerLily

Is there no way to discuss options that DON'T include cycling

jon1981

The two example locations you have given would be similar priced locations. If you can afford a bigger house in one location you can afford it in the other.

Edit: i just saw you said you live in portobello.


This is really a non problem in terms of commute. You have many good options in the city to give you a decent sized house with a small commute. Clontarf, blackrock killester, dartry... all of these are still city locations imo. Portobello is proper city centre.

I was thinking of skerries, rush...etc. when you were talking about commuting time as an issue.

Peterx

GingerLily wrote: »

Is there no way to discuss options that DON'T include cycling

The admittedly vague OP appears to about reducing commute times and avoiding commute stress, all within a Dublin setting. Further posts mention no parking in work and pressure to get to the creche on time.

Cycling is the optimal solution in a grid locked city poorly served by public transport.

Of course you can discuss worse options but there is a reason people are promoting cycling as the answer to a 10km commute.

It's the best option for the vast majority of people.

Michael D Not Higgins

GingerLily wrote: »

Is there no way to discuss options that DON'T include cycling

People are providing their experience with cycling. You don't have to accept their advice, nor does the OP.

ionapaul

I think living closer to town, your workplace is the better option; assuming you are relatively open to where exactly you live you can find a small place near a park and playground, partially making up for any lack of personal green space. Time spent commuting is just wasted time in most cases, and the negative of this wasted time greatly outweighs the positives of a slightly bigger house, bigger garden, etc... IMHO. It's the reason why properties in 'good' areas closer to town are typically higher than those further out; the difference in cost price neatly illuminates the value of a shorter commute!

awec

I'd try keep the commute as short as possible.

Though Killiney -> Dublin is still a reasonable commute IMO.

Alanstrainor

awec wrote: »

I'd try keep the commute as short as possible.

Though Killiney -> Dublin is still a reasonable commute IMO.

I lived in Killiney for a while and commuted in. It'll be in and around an hour commute into the city centre on public transport. Not too bad I reckon. Transport links are decent, and the dart is a possibility if you're close to it. I ended up buying in Portmarnock, so you can tell which option I went with. Bigger house, driveway, bigger garden, large green spaces and parks nearby etc. The distances from 'town' are not huge. I think I'd be doing a dry run of the commute some day and see what traffic/public transport is like for you at those times.

Schrodingercat

I made the move from city center to 10K outside before we had kids and I definitely wouldn't move back in to city. (but Its what I'm used to now)

When you get home you have playgrounds etc. nearby, so you can get out for an hour before bed time rather than sitting in the house with them.
Quality of Schools is important, and if you can drop kids to creches / schools within walking distance of your house you can continue your commute in easily . Bigger house, more room to store things.
Weekends you have sports clubs etc. nearby that you won't have in the city, and you don't have to get through traffic to get to them, so you will make up the time you lose during the week but if the commute meant you were only home a few minutes before bed then it wouldn't be worth it.


Killiney is further than 10km so is a decent cycle (with Hills). My commute is around 30 minutes on a bike, and up to an hour on public transport door to door.

AndrewJRenko

GingerLily wrote: »

Not everyone works in am office with bike facilities, not everyone has good roads for commuting, especially in the winter

Certainly office facilities are an issue, though some people find ways around this by showering at a city gym or pool instead. Any 10k route into Dublin has decent roads for commuting. We're not talking about Ballygobackwards here.

GingerLily wrote: »

Is there no way to discuss options that DON'T include cycling

Sure, we could discuss the options of ever-increasing gridlocks, increasing climate emissions and associated fines, increasing the number of deaths each year due to air-quality beyond the current 1600 each year, doubling your personal risk of cancer and all those other options that don't involve cycling.

awec

Cycling suits a certain demographic, but if you have kids and have to do creche and school runs it is an absolute pain in the dick so I don't see why people keep going on about it.

Getting up in the middle of winter, getting two kids into a bike trailer and having to trek them through rain and wind just sounds like total hell.

And I say this as someone who enjoys cycling.

daithiK1

awec wrote: »

Cycling suits a certain demographic, but if you have kids and have to do creche and school runs it is an absolute pain in the dick so I don't see why people keep going on about it.

Getting up in the middle of winter, getting two kids into a bike trailer and having to trek them through rain and wind just sounds like total hell.

And I say this as someone who enjoys cycling.

that might be your opinion, but thats all it is. I include cycling with my drop to the creche on route to work, and it works quite well for me.

jon1981

Sorry OP but is this really an issue. 10km from Portobello could mean a 15 min trip into town on a dart or a luas depending on your location. Is this really an issue? Are the locations you're looking at not well served by transport or only by bus?

awec

daithiK1 wrote: »

that might be your opinion, but thats all it is. I include cycling with my drop to the creche on route to work, and it works quite well for me.

Good for you, but anyone who thinks the majority of parents have any interest whatsoever in cycling their kids to and from creche or school is absolutely deluded.

OP has already said he is not interested in it.

skallywag

The likes of Croozers are great for spinning around with the kids, but there is no way I would want to be using one day in day out as part of my regular routine, particularly through typical Irish weather. I'm an avid cyclist myself but I certainly would have no interest in it.

OP, coming back to your opening Q, I would go for the extra space / green areas.

helimachoptor

Op, could you drop kids in car.. park somewhere and then cycle?

There's a guy that parks across from my house who does that for that very reason.

Drops kids to child minder, drives to my road (south county dub from Bray), takes out bike and cycles in office (ifsc area).

From chatting to him, allows flexibility for him/his wife, takes about 20 mins to get from childminder to my road, he's no parking and doesnt want to pay, the time from getting onto his bike to work is pretty consistent, makes him fitter etc.

Just on the no showering facilities, could you join a gym, chances are with this approach you'd save enough money each week to pay for it

daithiK1

awec wrote: »

daithiK1 wrote: »

that might be your opinion, but thats all it is. I include cycling with my drop to the creche on route to work, and it works quite well for me.

Good for you, but anyone who thinks the majority of parents have any interest whatsoever in cycling their kids to and from creche or school is absolutely deluded.

OP has already said he is not interested in it.

I didn't specifically mean cycling the children to creche, let me be clear( for the op), driving to creche with bike in boot/rack is a real option, worth trying out before discounting especially if you are comfortable cycling and would consider it longer term, crèches further out very often are located in areas where you can leave the car during the day... Parking at creche and cycling the remainder to work, then visa versa for you or other half on way home. Plenty do it, and from my experience it facilitated moving from dublin single digit city centre to double digit subarbs without impacting time with them in evening.
Also from my experience I would strongly echo the earlier comments re. Slightlying further out a better option at weekends for sports and parks, less traffic etc.

wersal gummage

Schrodingercat wrote: »

...
When you get home you have playgrounds etc. nearby, so you can get out for an hour before bed time rather than sitting in the house with them.
Quality of Schools is important, and if you can drop kids to creches / schools within walking distance of your house you can continue your commute in easily . Bigger house, more room to store things.
Weekends you have sports clubs etc. nearby that you won't have in the city, and you don't have to get through traffic to get to them, so you will make up the time you lose during the week but if the commute meant you were only home a few minutes before bed then it wouldn't be worth it.
...

.

Thank you, this was the kind of thing I was really asking about

wersal gummage

jon1981 wrote: »

Sorry OP but is this really an issue. 10km from Portobello could mean a 15 min trip into town on a dart or a luas depending on your location. Is this really an issue? Are the locations you're looking at not well served by transport or only by bus?

From what I can see, it's not possible to get from 10km into town in 15 mins. First off, we work 15 mins from nearest dart in town... Then we can't afford to live right next to a Dart station so are looking at a good 15 mins the other end too. I use tbr dart regularly and it is constantly late in the evenings, then stopping between stations to let faster trains by, wait for platforms to clear etc.

Have you ever gone 10km on a Dart? It doesn't take 15 mins! Again, I'm not looking to debate how long a commute takes. Just say it's an hour on public transport, is it worth spending that hour say, versus 25 mins walk to a city location, for whatever perceived benefits are in the suburbs??

AndrewJRenko

awec wrote: »

Cycling suits a certain demographic, but if you have kids and have to do creche and school runs it is an absolute pain in the dick so I don't see why people keep going on about it.

Getting up in the middle of winter, getting two kids into a bike trailer and having to trek them through rain and wind just sounds like total hell.

And I say this as someone who enjoys cycling.

Kids/creches/school runs do not make cycling impossible. They can add some complications for sure, but if you want to make it happen, you can make it happen.

https://www.sciencekiddo.com/cargo-bike-vs-bike-trailer/

I'm not quite sure that 'hell' is a fair description of this scenario.

If you live a busy traffic area at a busy school, you'll probably get 10-30 extra minutes in bed as result of not being stuck in traffic at the school run, and not having to find safe parking at the school. Sorry, scrap that last bit - just stop your car wherever you like, regardless of the danger and inconvenience you cause for other people.

But I really wonder why some people object to cycling being mentioned. It's not compulsory. No-one has to follow that or any of the suggestions here. It's just one of many suggestions. What's the problem with mentioning it?