Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

Base price · 17-04-2019 12:33pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Those who struggle to put meat, chicken or fish on the table cannot give a F@@k about carbon footprint sustainability or branding. Where beef is concerned we can forget about carbon footprint. We have lost that argument at present. We have to sell on health and taste. And maybe on taste only. We have to forget about ticking all the boxes. It about branding and creating our own brand. Grass fed as much as possible. Grass is where as Irish farmers we make our money. Ration and grain are break even at best especially from the way processors have treated finisher's over the last 2-3 years. We need to rebrand and forget about 500 kg bulls and rations

+1 Grass is our usp and that is why Irish butter sells worldwide.

patsy_mccabe · 17-04-2019 1:16pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Those who struggle to put meat, chicken or fish on the table cannot give a F@@k about carbon footprint sustainability or branding. Where beef is concerned we can forget about carbon footprint. We have lost that argument at present. We have to sell on health and taste. And maybe on taste only. We have to forget about ticking all the boxes. It about branding and creating our own brand. Grass fed as much as possible. Grass is where as Irish farmers we make our money. Ration and grain are break even at best especially from the way processors have treated finisher's over the last 2-3 years. We need to rebrand and forget about 500 kg bulls and rations

True, but when the beef prices go back up again, it will be back to finishing bulls in the sheds. Factory price dictates everything.

wrangler · 17-04-2019 1:23pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

True, but when beef pricew goes back up again, it will be back to finishing bulls in the sheds. Factory price dictates everything.

Reminds me of when I used to sow a lot of corn, I reckoned that I was always sorry when I sowed wheat........ some years I was sorry I didn't sow more and other years I was sorry I sowed it at all.
I think feeding bulls is a bit similar, if there's profit in them there's good profit in them, but they'd rob ya in the bad years.

coolshannagh28 · 17-04-2019 2:58pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

How do you add value to Beef? Milk is different, with all the different yogurts, spreads etc. Beef sells best in it's purest form, just the packaging added.
Unless we can add value in terms of proven lower carbon footprints, sustainability etc, what can we do?

The future of beef is about backstory , traceability ,sustainability and taste , Lidll have branded their beef to please Irish consumers and seem to sell a lot of it .
Not everyone will agree but trying to sell Irish beef in the UK using Bord Bia as a stamp or certification is a waste of time it needs to be a simple reliable branding exercise that UK customers understand .
I don't think much of an effort is being made because our processors are happy to sell off the bottom shelf and pay farmers less to make their margin.

bogman_bass · 17-04-2019 4:21pm

Have to disagree about Italian Beef being better. From my experience it’s crap.
No wonder they have gotten so good at making lovely sauces to cover it up.

It’s super lean and devoid of flavor

whelan2 · 17-04-2019 6:55pm

Went to tesco in Banbridge today. Bought 2 strip loin steaks in a pack 7.50 pounds same ones here €6.99. Tbh the Irish tesco steak would taste nicer. But why charge more for the same product in sterling? Northern Irish beef 16.52 pounds per kg.

wrangler · 17-04-2019 7:45pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Went to tesco in Banbridge today. Bought 2 strip loin steaks in a pack 7.50 pounds same ones here €6.99. Tbh the Irish tesco steak would taste nicer. But why charge more for the same product in sterling? Northern Irish beef 16.52 pounds per kg.

Was it british beef or Irish, Processors in England are paying more for cattle

whelan2 · 17-04-2019 7:57pm

wrangler wrote: »

Was it british beef or Irish, Processors in England are paying more for cattle

It says produced and packaged in Northern Ireland

wrangler · 17-04-2019 8:08pm

whelan2 wrote: »

It says produced and packaged in Northern Ireland

Don't know what they're paying up there

Base price · 17-04-2019 8:23pm

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

The future of beef is about backstory , traceability ,sustainability and taste , Lidll have branded their beef to please Irish consumers and seem to sell a lot of it .
Not everyone will agree but trying to sell Irish beef in the UK using Bord Bia as a stamp or certification is a waste of time it needs to be a simple reliable branding exercise that UK customers understand .
I don't think much of an effort is being made because our processors are happy to sell off the bottom shelf and pay farmers less to make their margin.

I buy the majority of our meat from our local butcher but I treat ourselves every week to ribeye/striploin/sirloin from Lidl's hereford deluxe range either their 28 or 35 day aged. I've never been disappointed with it's quality and taste.

wrangler · 17-04-2019 8:34pm

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

The future of beef is about backstory , traceability ,sustainability and taste , Lidll have branded their beef to please Irish consumers and seem to sell a lot of it .
Not everyone will agree but trying to sell Irish beef in the UK using Bord Bia as a stamp or certification is a waste of time it needs to be a simple reliable branding exercise that UK customers understand .
I don't think much of an effort is being made because our processors are happy to sell off the bottom shelf and pay farmers less to make their margin.

Bord Bia rep said on monday that English supermarkets don't want to use the Irish label for fear of reprisals from farmers over there, Irish beef being dumped is destroying the price of English beef over there. There was some criticism of us on The Farming Forum five or six weeks ago

Base price · 17-04-2019 8:51pm

wrangler wrote: »

Bord Bia rep said on monday that English supermarkets don't want to use the Irish label for fear of reprisals from farmers over there, Irish beef being dumped is destroying the price of English beef over there. There was some criticism of us on The Farming Forum five or six weeks ago

You cannot blame them to be fair. If the shoe was on the other foot we would be up in arms about it.

Say my name · 17-04-2019 9:07pm

There's one thing about the British and that's they know quality.

Just look at the posts on Facebook and Twitter about Dexter beef. From the Michelin guide and being served at Chequers.

And where does this Irish native breed beef come from?
England and Scotland.

I've no affiliation to the breed. But I think it's a pure joke that it doesn't even register as option to producers in it's native country. :rolleyes:

Grueller · 17-04-2019 9:12pm

Say my name wrote: »

There's one thing about the British and that's they know quality.

Just look at the posts on Facebook and Twitter about Dexter beef. From the Michelin guide and being served at Chequers.

And where does this Irish native breed beef come from?
England and Scotland.

I've no affiliation to the breed. But I think it's a pure joke that it doesn't even register as option to producers in it's native country. :rolleyes:

Our economy is tiny as is our gourmet food sector. Unless an individual can raise process and market his own dexter beef we have not got the capacity for it to work for lads.

Say my name · 17-04-2019 9:36pm

Grueller wrote: »

Our economy is tiny as is our gourmet food sector. Unless an individual can raise process and market his own dexter beef we have not got the capacity for it to work for lads.

They export kerrygold butter based on taste and appearance and omega 3 benefits around the world.
And it gets a premium for the processors.

I can't see how a processor wouldn't set up in the breeds home country and try to do a similar story with the beef.

You're right though it'll never be a farmer initiated thing as nearly all beef farmers are part time and time poor or fulltime and cash poor.

patsy_mccabe · 17-04-2019 9:45pm

Say my name wrote: »

There's one thing about the British and that's they know quality.

Just look at the posts on Facebook and Twitter about Dexter beef. From the Michelin guide and being served at Chequers.

And where does this Irish native breed beef come from?
England and Scotland.

I've no affiliation to the breed. But I think it's a pure joke that it doesn't even register as option to producers in it's native country. :rolleyes:

Dexter Cattle - Go to 7:30 mins on this video from some inside info;

Albert Johnson · 17-04-2019 10:07pm

Grueller wrote: »

Our economy is tiny as is our gourmet food sector. Unless an individual can raise process and market his own dexter beef we have not got the capacity for it to work for lads.

This is the crux of the issue regarding dexter and other niche beef products imo. To make such a product a success would require both farming and business-retail management in equal measure. I've considered going down the route of producing rare breed beef but unless I was prepared to promote and market the end product I struggle to see how it would achieve a worthwhile return. A niche product badly marketed is only a commodity by another name imo, I take my hat off to anyone who attempts to carve there own niche but I can't see it working on a large scale.

Say my name · 17-04-2019 10:16pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Dexter Cattle - Go to 7:30 mins on this video from some inside info;

I dunno they just make sense to me especially when they are in demand on the plate.

I mean where do you go for an Irish draft horse?
Where for a Connemara pony?

Where for a Dexter???

Oh I'll stop now. :pac:

https://twitter.com/hminternational/status/930797903148474368?s=20

Siamsa Sessions · 18-04-2019 2:25pm

Had the misfortune to be in a large supermarket this morning. No wonder people buy everything except plain, healthy food - it was wall-to-wall colours, lights, offers, you-name-it, etc.

The consumer hasn’t a hope. Food is only a necessary evil now during your “retail experience”

patsy_mccabe · 19-04-2019 8:01pm

https://twitter.com/ajwwoods/status/1117909084684967937

Bass Reeves · 19-04-2019 11:04pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ajwwoods/status/1117909084684967937

Is that Henry ( there will be money in Elephants again ) Burns. I think it is.

gerryirl · 21-04-2019 12:39pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Is that Henry ( there will be money in Elephants again ) Burns. I think it is.

he spoke the truth.. I feel he said all Id like to say. I've not had my farm in as better shape ever and doing it all by the so called book. For what, so my job can subside it for a few months of the year.. I'd say if he got his way last time we sat outside the factories we'd have went all out

I'm gonna say something and it may not be popular but I think in relation to the farm payments. It has crossed my mind to become a summer farmer but I think something has to done about that and the lad with the donkeys. They are right in what they are doing just to get payments. no law being broke but its not paying to feed over the winter now so we all cant go buying donkeys or buying in the spring and sell in the back end. I think there should be a livestock limit all year not just for 7 months I think it is now. Might not be popular but it might help the full time man that has to be on his knees at the minute

Bass Reeves · 21-04-2019 2:14pm

gerryirl wrote: »

he spoke the truth.. I feel he said all Id like to say. I've not had my farm in as better shape ever and doing it all by the so called book. For what, so my job can subside it for a few months of the year.. I'd say if he got his way last time we sat outside the factories we'd have went all out

I'm gonna say something and it may not be popular but I think in relation to the farm payments. It has crossed my mind to become a summer farmer but I think something has to done about that and the lad with the donkeys. They are right in what they are doing just to get payments. no law being broke but its not paying to feed over the winter now so we all cant go buying donkeys or buying in the spring and sell in the back end. I think there should be a livestock limit all year not just for 7 months I think it is now. Might not be popular but it might help the full time man that has to be on his knees at the minute

I have no issue with lads working the system. They do less harm than lads feeding cattle for Larry for the fun of it. Lads doing that do not have the impact that some would like to think. Most are not handling huge numbers of cattle. They had nothing to do with the price collapse last Autumn and it continuance right through the winter. The stocking numbers being raised would only get them competing for more cattle and most lads with donkey's and ponies have them all year long. They do not buy calves or weanlings to keep them in the country.

The IFA elections will be along soon. Henry no doubt has an eye on that. There was no big hoha for the last 2-3 years when lads with weanlings took a beating at the marts. But because a few big lads get hammered for gambling (then IMO it was not a gamble but pure stupidity) we need to load the system for them again. Lads overpaying for cattle in the spring is there as long as I can remember.
When heavy cattle were first cut I remember going to an IFA meeting all those years ago. The bold Henry's rocked into the meeting threw off the jacket rolled up his sleeves to become a common man. His contribution to the complaining faithful was that this was a temporary blip and elephants of cattle would be needed again. That was when I started to lose faith in the IFA because they could not see what way the market was going. Yes they were paid for again on and off but any time there was an oversupply of cattle they got hammered. Most lads caught with bulls this year were at the elephant game again. Speaking to two lads that do bulls all the time both while not overly happy this year with them had them all moved by mid February and took the hit and moved on. But both were killing bulls sub 400 kgs DW not Henry's elephants

Dinzee Conlee · 21-04-2019 2:15pm

gerryirl wrote: »

he

I'm gonna say something and it may not be popular but I think in relation to the farm payments. It has crossed my mind to become a summer farmer but I think something has to done about that and the lad with the donkeys. They are right in what they are doing just to get payments. no law being broke but its not paying to feed over the winter now so we all cant go buying donkeys or buying in the spring and sell in the back end. I think there should be a livestock limit all year not just for 7 months I think it is now. Might not be popular but it might help the full time man that has to be on his knees at the minute

What 7 month rule?

Bass Reeves · 21-04-2019 2:20pm

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

What 7 month rule?

The 7 month rule is for stocking density for the ANC payment. You have to keep cattle for 7 months of the year and have an average stocking density of 0.15LU/HA over the 12 months to draw the payment

Albert Johnson · 21-04-2019 2:57pm

gerryirl wrote: »

he spoke the truth.. I feel he said all Id like to say. I've not had my farm in as better shape ever and doing it all by the so called book. For what, so my job can subside it for a few months of the year.. I'd say if he got his way last time we sat outside the factories we'd have went all out

I'm gonna say something and it may not be popular but I think in relation to the farm payments. It has crossed my mind to become a summer farmer but I think something has to done about that and the lad with the donkeys. They are right in what they are doing just to get payments. no law being broke but its not paying to feed over the winter now so we all cant go buying donkeys or buying in the spring and sell in the back end. I think there should be a livestock limit all year not just for 7 months I think it is now. Might not be popular but it might help the full time man that has to be on his knees at the minute

How exactly do you propose this would help the struggling full-time man? It's somewhat confusing to me that even though the so called "7 months men" pay way over the odds for cattle in the spring that it's still not viable to winter stock most years. I don't see how forcing them to keep a certain stock level all year round will alleviate any of the current problems. The full-time beef farmer may be struggling in the last few years but aiming to drag us all down to the lowest common denominator isn't any help. Perhaps if these lads stopped producing a lot of these currently unviable stock there finances would improve.

As I've stated before I think there's at least twice to much beef being produced in this country. Halving the weekly kill may not improve the price but would reduce the need for inputs such as meal, fertilizer and so on dramatically. It's not a great outlook to aim to break even on the stock and to retain the sub as profit but it's still better than many are achieving currently. We need to stop looking down upon the lads with donkeys and the bare bones of stock for the summer, there not producing more unwanted beef and adding fuel to the fire. "Production is vanity, profit is sanity", it's all well and good beating our chests about the "bad" armchair or dairy farmer's or whoever is the lastest enemy but it won't put bread on the table.

Finally I thought that the ANC was only received by those in certain regions and not a country wide measure. If so then this concept of men only buying stock to fulfill the requirements of the scheme is hardly epidemic? I was of the opinion that no livestock are need to claim the BPS just that the land be kept in good agricultural condition. Indeed if many of the full timers on good land where given 40 rushy acres on the side of Arigna or any other mountain and faced with an 8 month winter would they be as eager to persevere with a minimum 12 month stocking rate? I think the conifers or a ass would be sought fairly quickly, even Cromwell drew the line at Connaught.

MIKEKC · 21-04-2019 6:15pm

gerryirl wrote: »

he spoke the truth.. I feel he said all Id like to say. I've not had my farm in as better shape ever and doing it all by the so called book. For what, so my job can subside it for a few months of the year.. I'd say if he got his way last time we sat outside the factories we'd have went all out

I'm gonna say something and it may not be popular but I think in relation to the farm payments. It has crossed my mind to become a summer farmer but I think something has to done about that and the lad with the donkeys. They are right in what they are doing just to get payments. no law being broke but its not paying to feed over the winter now so we all cant go buying donkeys or buying in the spring and sell in the back end. I think there should be a livestock limit all year not just for 7 months I think it is now. Might not be popular but it might help the full time man that has to be on his knees at the minute

If people had to have stock all year round it would mean building housing for many. If the full time man is on his knees why should others be brought to their knees with expensive housing when ther is no return from the business. 7 months is too long. We have all the schemes geared to protect the environment yet you want the land cut up with cattle on it too long.

bogman_bass · 21-04-2019 8:50pm

7 months is too long? At .15LU per Ha?
If that’s the case you’d be better off planting trees on that land and being done with it.

wrangler · 21-04-2019 8:58pm

bogman_bass wrote: »

7 months is too long? At .15LU per Ha?
If that’s the case you’d be better off planting trees on that land and being done with it.

Are you serius, that's only the equivalent to a minimum of one ewe to the hectare or one 2 year old bullock to seven hectares.
Doesn't sound too onerous

Albert Johnson · 21-04-2019 9:13pm

bogman_bass wrote: »

7 months is too long? At .15LU per Ha?
If that’s the case you’d be better off planting trees on that land and being done with it.

As to whether it's too long is dependent on your land type and housing facilities to be fair. I'd rate our own land here as average if not slightly better than most of the adjoining area. It wouldn't be overstocked and I still wouldn't finish feeding until the 1st of May on average. If I was like a lot of summer grazers locally with limited housing, machinery and no fodder I wouldn't buy stock before this date to ensure they could be let straight to grass. Fast forward 7 months and it's now the first of December, depending on the weather ground conditions may be very poor and it's definitely time to either house or sell the stock. A 5 month winter around here would be very optimistic imo and run a risk of getting caught at either end of the grazing season most years.

Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

Comments