Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

Robeman wrote: »

Just came accross this forum and have enjoyed reading it. I actually have read the "Plan" of the BPM from cover to cover and have also attended a BPM meeting.

After I read the plan I thought of Larry at his weekly meeting with his senior managere asking the question "has anyone read the Plan of the BPM" One manager speaks up "Yes I have we have absolutely nothing to worry about. If you want a good laugh Larry if you ever get depressed read it. It will also help you understand why you are a billionaire".

At a subsequent meeting Larry asks "have we got anybody to attend one of these meetings to learn more about BPM" Bright spark answers again. "Even less to worry about. They talk about everything except their plan. The head guys waffle on about how tough things are and how everybody (IFA, Dairy farmers, Gov, FF,FG EU, Supermarkets, Processors.........) are mean to Beef Producers. They then waffle on about some mickey mouse technical issues. When issue thrown open to the flooor there are loads of passionate speeches about more mickey mouse issues, how everyone is mean to them etc etc. Then you usually get some County Council Candidates speaking to canvass some votes. There is lots of shouting and roaring especially at farmers who attemp to make an intelligent contribution particularly if they say that the plan is bull****." The good thing for us is that the lunatics are definitely in charge of the asylum."

Joking aside the Plan is the greatest load of bull**** I have ever come accross and is an insult to the word "Plan"

It is easy to understand why. It was put together by a Group of Beef Farmers in Meath who may be the best beef farmers in the country but who obviously know absolutely nothing about Consumers, The Retail trade \ Multiples and the Beef processing Industry and how they all work and behave. They also seem to know little about international makets, how manufacturing industry works and the cost of some of the ideas they blithly put forward and how the world works. I could write a short book about everything that is wrong about their plan.

The most amazing thing about the BPM is that virtually no one including the Media seems to have actually read the Plan. If they had they would be more critical of it.

Whenever one puts together a business Plan the first thing to be considered in Macro Economic Environment i.e what is happening in the big bad world out there that we need to keep in mind as we develop our plan.

As regards the Beef Industry the main item I would consider are.

-Climate Change Industry
-Decreasing consumption of meat particularly red mean in mature 1st world economies \ rise of vegetarianism & Veganism
-Decreasing influence of farming sector as key element of 1st world economies and also decreasing political influence due to decreasing numbers working in industry
-Movement away from home cooking \ self prepared meals to institutional eating (canteens at school \ work) and restaurants \ take out eating.
-Continually increasing regulation
-Less physical work \ \play more sedentary work \ play resulting in less calories needed.
-World population growth (stagnant in 1st world where can afford expensive meat \ growing in 2nd\3rd where meat very often a luxury.

These are virtually all negative there are probably more negatives I have not thought of and maybe some positives but even after racking my brains I cannot come up with one. can anyone come up with some positives or more negatives.

I will write some more on this issue if you are interested in learning how a proper plan is put together and what needs to be considered in the whole chain from field to fork when developing a plan for a particular segment namely Beef Producing sector.

Subidising the farmer is doing a lot of harm, a business minded person would leave the land nearly idle and collect their subsidy rather than feed cattle, but farmers seem to plod on and make a bad situation worse by over producing.
If farmers were getting no sub they'd be a lot more careful with their money I think
The Bord bia guy said as much as you're after saying about consumers and consumer behaviour and the importance of studying the market .
There'll have to be a change, don't think it'll happen in my lifetime.
Interesting move by BPM today, they start an organisation for those not happy with bord bia, IFA etc, now they're having a poll about satisfaction with Bord Bia, IFA, etc etc ....guess what the result will be.
In effect they have formed an organisation to lobby IFA......you couldn't make it up

Chapter Two of Plan THE CONSUMER

The key to any fmcg business is understanding the consumer of your product, their behaviors, buying habits, price sensitivity, what influences their buying habits, loyalty, where they buy, when they buy etc etc etc.

Understanding consumers more important the nearer you get to them so particularly studied in the case of food products by Retail Trade \ Brand owners \ Food processors. Also need to be understood by Restaurant \ Catering industry for consumers that use them for food purchases. The key success factor is understanding your consumer and giving them what they want. (Selling consumers what you have is not the same as giving them what they want. Selling what you have is a tougher proosition if this is not what consumer wants)

I often wonder how often beef farmers visit supermarkets to see their product displayed on the shelves along with all the other closely competing products (lamb, pig, hen , turkey , duck, goose, all different types of fish) and more indirectly competing products like pasta bread vegetables etc etc etc. Do they watch house wives (husbands) as they go around making their food choices for the day \ week. Do they ever talk to the housewife and ask her about her purchasing decisions. Why she did not purchase beef if none in her trolly. They would learn a lot in this way.

It would be a sobering lesson for many farmers if a few average house wife's came and spoke to a BPM meeting. They would probably pop a few of the holy grails of the beef producing industry.

Do farmers ever look at and understand the product mix, price points, packaging of the beef on offer, do they look at the "meat" competition and see the various costs per kilo fo the house wife.

The housewife wants the best and healthiest nutrition for her family, she wants food they like that she can easily and she has a budget. Yes she can buy 4 steaks for family that may cost €20 euro, maybe lesser cuts \ smaller for €10 or maybe 2 chickens for €6 which will have some leftovers after dinner which can be used for families packed lunches day after or grazing snacks for fast growing kids.

She probably likes the idea that beef is grass fed, may equally like that corn feed and may not care less. She probably is patriotic and would prefer to buy Irish but if not there, overpriced or not nicely packaged she will easily buy foreign products. She has travelled and knows that every country in Europe has nice food and maybe even higher standards than Ireland.

Beef maybe a pain in the arse for her to cook. Husband \ kids never complain about overcooked chicken, turkey, bacon. With steaks \ roasts it is a nightmare. Hubby wants it rare, son medium rare, herself well done while daughter is going through a curry phase and want everything curried.

She is not worried about the poor beef farmer and how much money is is making (aw sure he is getting loads of subsidies anyway), she has no idea what grade the meat is (she has two grades nice and rubbish) , quality assured sounds good but she expects every food product is quality assured by everyone in the food chain. She would probably understand the supermarkets and processor quality procedures and processes but would have difficulty in understanding Board Bia' s QA scheme for farmers and how that ensures anything in the way of quality. When she has to return product to supermarket for being substandard she blames them and also blames processor who name is on product if different. She get apology from supermarket and also one from processor who foods cost of return and cost of freebe to housewife to give substance to apology. The processor never goes back to farmer even if complaint is somewhat related to rearing like meat being tough or too much fat

To her meat is meat, branding is probably not important. If she considers the supermarket is good she will accept that their meat is good. She probably shops in 2 or 3 different supermarkets and is always comparing one to the other. She may have perceptions that one quality is better than other but industry professionals will probably say that all the same. Do lidl, aldi even though cheapest accept poorer quality meat I think not.

I have probably written enough about the consumer and her choices. Key lesson for beef farmers is that consumer does not care about your problems up to you to sort your own problems. Second they are lots of products housewife can buy instead of beef.

Robeman wrote: »

Chapter Two of Plan THE CONSUMER

The key to any fmcg business is understanding the consumer of your product, their behaviors, buying habits, price sensitivity, what influences their buying habits, loyalty, where they buy, when they buy etc etc etc.

Understanding consumers more important the nearer you get to them so particularly studied in the case of food products by Retail Trade \ Brand owners \ Food processors. Also need to be understood by Restaurant \ Catering industry for consumers that use them for food purchases. The key success factor is understanding your consumer and giving them what they want. (Selling consumers what you have is not the same as giving them what they want. Selling what you have is a tougher proosition if this is not what consumer wants)

I often wonder how often beef farmers visit supermarkets to see their product displayed on the shelves along with all the other closely competing products (lamb, pig, hen , turkey , duck, goose, all different types of fish) and more indirectly competing products like pasta bread vegetables etc etc etc. Do they watch house wives (husbands) as they go around making their food choices for the day \ week. Do they ever talk to the housewife and ask her about her purchasing decisions. Why she did not purchase beef if none in her trolly. They would learn a lot in this way.

It would be a sobering lesson for many farmers if a few average house wife's came and spoke to a BPM meeting. They would probably pop a few of the holy grails of the beef producing industry.

Do farmers ever look at and understand the product mix, price points, packaging of the beef on offer, do they look at the "meat" competition and see the various costs per kilo fo the house wife.

The housewife wants the best and healthiest nutrition for her family, she wants food they like that she can easily and she has a budget. Yes she can buy 4 steaks for family that may cost €20 euro, maybe lesser cuts \ smaller for €10 or maybe 2 chickens for €6 which will have some leftovers after dinner which can be used for families packed lunches day after or grazing snacks for fast growing kids.

She probably likes the idea that beef is grass fed, may equally like that corn feed and may not care less. She probably is patriotic and would prefer to buy Irish but if not there, overpriced or not nicely packaged she will easily buy foreign products. She has travelled and knows that every country in Europe has nice food and maybe even higher standards than Ireland.

Beef maybe a pain in the arse for her to cook. Husband \ kids never complain about overcooked chicken, turkey, bacon. With steaks \ roasts it is a nightmare. Hubby wants it rare, son medium rare, herself well done while daughter is going through a curry phase and want everything curried.

She is not worried about the poor beef farmer and how much money is is making (aw sure he is getting loads of subsidies anyway), she has no idea what grade the meat is (she has two grades nice and rubbish) , quality assured sounds good but she expects every food product is quality assured by everyone in the food chain. She would probably understand the supermarkets and processor quality procedures and processes but would have difficulty in understanding Board Bia' s QA scheme for farmers and how that ensures anything in the way of quality. When she has to return product to supermarket for being substandard she blames them and also blames processor who name is on product if different. She get apology from supermarket and also one from processor who foods cost of return and cost of freebe to housewife to give substance to apology. The processor never goes back to farmer even if complaint is somewhat related to rearing like meat being tough or too much fat

To her meat is meat, branding is probably not important. If she considers the supermarket is good she will accept that their meat is good. She probably shops in 2 or 3 different supermarkets and is always comparing one to the other. She may have perceptions that one quality is better than other but industry professionals will probably say that all the same. Do lidl, aldi even though cheapest accept poorer quality meat I think not.

I have probably written enough about the consumer and her choices. Key lesson for beef farmers is that consumer does not care about your problems up to you to sort your own problems. Second they are lots of products housewife can buy instead of beef.

Excellent, Can you forward this to bord bia? These are the people that we as farmers pay to market our produce and who clearly are not making a good job of it.

wrangler wrote: »

I watched a meat counter in Italy once and was surprised at the housewives passing the cheaper Irish product to buy the Italian stuff, I realised it doesn't matter what Italian stuff is worth on the top shelf, we are actually competing to fill the bottom shelves and our competitors will usually be cheaper.
We were made aware at the meeting last night that italian bull price is 50 - 70c/kg more than here at the moment,

Food quality in Italy is a lot higher than in Ireland. They are not massive meat eaters. Beef tends to be steaks for main courses or mince for pasta sauces,also do mince meat sausages. In addition they do a lot of dry cured beef which is beef equivalent of parma ham bresaola i think it is caledl. beef also used in salamis as well. Veal also big there and it is great quality.
I have eated a lot of raw beef in Italy they have a dish there called "raw meat of Alba" very thin slices of raw beef topped with a bit of olive oil and parmeasan cheese fabulous. It takes a lot of confidence in hygiene and quality standards to serve and eat a dish like this. All Italian believe all foreign food and wine is second rate.

Robeman wrote: »

Food quality in Italy is a lot higher than in Ireland. They are not massive meat eaters. Beef tends to be steaks for main courses or mince for pasta sauces,also do mince meat sausages. In addition they do a lot of dry cured beef which is beef equivalent of parma ham bresaola i think it is caledl. beef also used in salamis as well. Veal also big there and it is great quality.
I have eated a lot of raw beef in Italy they have a dish there called "raw meat of Alba" very thin slices of raw beef topped with a bit of olive oil and parmeasan cheese fabulous. It takes a lot of confidence in hygiene and quality standards to serve and eat a dish like this. All Italian believe all foreign food and wine is second rate.

Like wise the french, you only see french made cars in france, whereas the Irish believe if it's irish it's rubbish

wrangler wrote: »

[/B]

Like wise the french, you only see french made cars in france, whereas the Irish believe if it's irish it's rubbish

If that's the case wrangler explain the success of Malone machinery, McHale and most irish agri trailer manufacturers

Robeman wrote: »

Irish food products are big in UK which is probably the most undemanding market in terms of food quality. Talk to any nationality on the continent and the will all agree that UK food is rubbish and when you ask about Irish food they will say is it not the same as UK.

Sad as it is to say in UK supermarkets Irish beef is cheaper than UK beef so much for its superior quality.

The UK is out biggest market , the question that has to be asked is this, is the Irish product cheaper because of a lazy stack it high sell it cheap marketing strategy by our processors or because it is inferior ?

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Well look at it this way - If English beef was sold in Ireland, how cheap would it have to be before you, as a typical Irish shopper, would buy it over Irish beef.

I can agree with the sentiment but we are constantly bombarded about the quality of Irish beef is it properly marketed ? look at the kerrygold story .

White Clover wrote: »

The British don't produce enough beef for the home market. They know our beef is good but why is it so heavily discounted?

The higher it's priced, the less they sell. That's the reality of sales.

White Clover wrote: »

The British don't produce enough beef for the home market. They know our beef is good but why is it so heavily discounted?

My relatives in England always buy New zealand lamb, even though the country is flooded with sheep. to sell to them it'd have to be NZ Price, so I presume when brexit happens it'll be Brazilian or Polish if they're not buying Polish already.

Any time I was in France there was as many German brands as french brands. I also saw a few Japanese cars it nearly 10 years now so no Hyundai back then.

Food is all about branding and packaging from what I can see. The day of the 400 kg+ carcass is over just like the 2.5kg chicken is gone. That means that continental suckler cattle are not a viable option unless weanlings can be exported for a premium price. However even for light carcasses the present price makes production uneconomical. Cheap beef is disappearing all over the world. US is now heading over 4/ kg again. Farmers my young lad worked for in Australia says fat cows from traditional breeds make about 5/ kg Aussie dollars or about 3.2/kg .big issue is there drought is making production more expensive.

Irish processors have never branded Irish beef and any time we branded it they have stolen control of these brands eg AA and HE schemes and placed them on the bottom shelf in the UK. Kepack/Glanbia scheme is a disgrace and they need to be told that. The farming organisations ( all of them) should have said it as it is about the scheme. But there silence gives the schemes credibility.

We need to create a brand for Irish beef that is credible and highlights the grass fed beef just like some other countries have. But processors do not want that there feedlots would be obsolete

wrangler wrote: »

Actually voted to stay, they were so worried about their future, them and their families, that they have all got Irish passports in the last year.
Apparently having Irish grandparents entitles you to Irish passports, one of the young ones has just paid €2m for a dental practise, uncertainty is the last thing he needs

Their teeth won't fall out after brexit wrangler. He will be ok if be is good at his job.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Any time I was in France there was as many German brands as french brands. I also saw a few Japanese cars it nearly 10 years now so no Hyundai back then.

Food is all about branding and packaging from what I can see. The day of the 400 kg+ carcass is over just like the 2.5kg chicken is gone. That means that continental suckler cattle are not a viable option unless weanlings can be exported for a premium price. However even for light carcasses the present price makes production uneconomical. Cheap beef is disappearing all over the world. US is now heading over 4/ kg again. Farmers my young lad worked for in Australia says fat cows from traditional breeds make about 5/ kg Aussie dollars or about 3.2/kg .big issue is there drought is making production more expensive.

Irish processors have never branded Irish beef and any time we branded it they have stolen control of these brands eg AA and HE schemes and placed them on the bottom shelf in the UK. Kepack/Glanbia scheme is a disgrace and they need to be told that. The farming organisations ( all of them) should have said it as it is about the scheme. But there silence gives the schemes credibility.

We need to create a brand for Irish beef that is credible and highlights the grass fed beef just like some other countries have. But processors do not want that there feedlots would be obsolete

This is as plain as the nose on your face but farmers , farm organisations ,govt etc ignore this , as I said above look at the worldwide success of Kerrygold as a brand and you have to ask why n effort has been made to do it with beef , its fairly apparent that processors are happy to take profits off the UK bottom shelf.

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

How do you add value to Beef? Milk is different, with all the different yogurts, spreads etc. Beef sells best in it's purest form, just the packaging added.
Unless we can add value in terms of proven lower carbon footprints, sustainability etc, what can we do?

Those who struggle to put meat, chicken or fish on the table cannot give a F@@k about carbon footprint sustainability or branding. Where beef is concerned we can forget about carbon footprint. We have lost that argument​ at present. We have to sell on health and taste. And maybe on taste only. We have to forget about ticking all the boxes. It about branding and creating our own brand. Grass fed as much as possible. Grass is where as Irish farmers we make our money. Ration and grain are break even at best especially from the way processors have treated finisher's over the last 2-3 years. We need to rebrand and forget about 500 kg bulls and rations