Mum died, Dad non composmentis

StereoSound · 13-08-2020 7:53pm #1

My mother died unexpectedly in the past few weeks. She was the carer of my Dad who is not in a right frame of mind for maybe 10 years now. There is a lot of things he cannot do such as being left alone in the house at any time. He has issues making proper decisions and he has sort of a childish understanding of things. Saying that, he can walk down to the shop alone and buy a litre of milk or other simple things like that but most other things is a no.

I have two sisters, and because Mum died someone has to take care of Dad on a full time basis. I have temporarily moved in with Dad into the family home but my sisters seem to think I should be the one to be his carer and quit my job in the process to do it.... This is not something I want to do, I don't want to quit my job and live with my sick father until the day he dies. That is not really fair on me and my sisters insist they cannot do this because of relationships and work. I have my own life made outside this house to. My mother never wanted to put my Dad into a nursing home and I can understand that, they would just drug the man up until the day he passes. She worked in nursing homes and hospitals all her life and she would tell us exactly what goes on with mentally ill patients.

I told my sisters that I am not going to live with Dad in this way because it suits "their lifestyles" .... I have my own life and as much as I care for my Dad I cannot sit here in the house with him day and night doing nothing but cooking and cleaning for him and watching him the whole time. I was with my mother the moment she died in her bedroom as we waited for the ambulance to arrive, she had some sort of heart complications that led to her death or so we believe until we get proper toxicology results ..... My Dad is 80 and who knows when he could go and the notion of him also dying in my presence like Mum did scares the life out of me

. I am depressed enough over my Mum right now and I am being nailed against the wall here to become Dads carer. I have my own house to pay for and I will lose that if I quit my job...

I did suggest to my sisters to get a live in carer into the house for Dad. We don't know how this would actually work or how much it would cost. My mother left a very healthy sum of money to my Dad and a live in carer would probably be doable. Plus my mothers life insurance payout would also help cover costs for my Dads care.

Has anyone got any advice on this ?

Meeoow · 13-08-2020 7:58pm

Sorry for your loss. Your sisters are selfish and deluded to expect you to have to give up your life to look after your dad, and they carry on as normal.
Definately look into getting care for your dad. Could you rotate time with your sisters so each of you spend a night a week or something?

StereoSound · 13-08-2020 8:00pm

Meeoow wrote: »

Sorry for your loss. Your sisters are selfish and deluded to expect you to have to give up your life to look after your dad, and they carry on as normal.
Definately look into getting care for your dad. Could you rotate time with your sisters so each of you spend a night a week or something?

We have been rotating every now and then but they want a more permanent solution. For the most part since Mum died I have been in the house day and night. She passed only last month.

LilacNails · 13-08-2020 8:11pm

So sorry for your loss, and the situation you find yourself in, that's not easy.

Your sisters are being so self centered. Stand your ground and do what is healthy and right for you.

You say there's money there left by your mom, that should cover for his care, use it for that. It's clearly what she would have wanted.

Perhaps ye might come to some agreement to a rotation 1 of ye staying 1 or 2 nights every so often, for your dad.

Take care of you first, you don't want to have a burnout. I imagine you might be a bit vulnerable ATM.

Use the money for your father, that's what it is there for.

Dial Hard · 13-08-2020 8:15pm

Let me guess, you're single and child free whereas they're married with children and they therefore think this means you're the automatic choice to become your dad's full-time carer because in their minds, you've nothing else to be doing?

Big, fat NOPE to that OP. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

Your dad's care needs to be an equal opportunities gig. I'd do a bit of research about the options available - Home Instead, a live-in carer, etc. - and present them to your sisters without even discussing your moving in full-time. It's not an option therefore don't even entertain it being brought to the table. If it gets brought up just shut the conversation down with "That's not up for discussion".

Best of luck and I'm sorry for your loss.

StereoSound · 13-08-2020 8:24pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

Let me guess, you're single and child free whereas they're married with children and they therefore think this means you're the automatic choice to become your dad's full-time carer because in their minds, you've nothing else to be doing?

Big, fat NOPE to that OP. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

Your dad's care needs to be an equal opportunities gig. I'd do a bit of research about the options available - Home Instead, a live-in carer, etc. - and present them to your sisters without even discussing your moving in full-time. It's not an option therefore don't even entertain it being brought to the table. If it gets brought up just shut the conversation down with "That's not up for discussion".

Best of luck and I'm sorry for your loss.

One of them is married ye, the other is engaged and has a kid with her fiance. You could say they assumed I was the automatic choice for this job. I have been pretty firm with them recently about my feelings towards this. I suppose they think I have less sht going on in my own life compared to theirs which is not true at all. Me and my sisters in recent years have barely contacted eachother, my mum dying has forced us back into each others lives. It's been non stop arguing for weeks over this. Jesus

Caranica · 13-08-2020 8:26pm

Talk to citizens information and/or Age Action to see what supports there are for your Dad. Does he have a clinical diagnosis?

Once you have the information you need to sit down as a family and work out what's best and fair. This does not include you being his primary carer.

Have you spoken to a counsellor about your mother's death? It's only natural that you're deeply upset but counselling can give you tools to help you get through this difficult time.

Mind yourself x

HildaOgdenx · 13-08-2020 8:26pm

OP, I'm very sorry for your loss. Absolutely agree with you, you should not be giving up your job. That would be very convenient indeed for the other siblings, I'm sure.

As a starting point, I would try contacting your dad's GP surgery / local health clinic to see if they can point you (and your siblings) in the right direction to find carers.

This link might also be useful

https://www.hse.ie/eng/home-support-services/

All the best.

beauf · 13-08-2020 8:27pm

You can apply for carers and you might get a certain amount from the HSE. You can supplement that with private carers. Also consider day centers. You really need to be taking to your dad's GP and get advice. There's also some support groups which advise you.

You're still in shock and mourning. Don't beat yourself up about this. Don't burn bridges with family when everyone is perhaps not acting rationally.

Fakediamond · 13-08-2020 8:30pm

A live-in carer for 5/6 nights and rotate weekend sleepovers to give the carer weekends off. It can be done. Just ensure you vet the person thoroughly and get references that can be verified.

Don’t let the situation continue, they will leave you there if you let them.

Sardonicat · 13-08-2020 8:37pm

beauf wrote: »

You can apply for carers and you might get a certain amount from the HSE. You can supplement that with private carers. Also consider day centers. You really need to be taking to your dad's GP and get advice. There's also some support groups which advise you.

You're still in shock and mourning. Don't beat yourself up about this. Don't burn bridges with family when everyone is perhaps not acting rationally.

He doesn't want to be his Dad's carer. There is no way you can supplement with private carers on Carers Allowance if you intend to eat . Day Centres are currently closed with no opening date in sight. If his sisters try to shaft him and abandon their Dad he would be well within his rights to burn his bridges. I've burned my bridges with my siblings for doing exactly that to me.

OP, if there is money there to pay for private care then go with that option. You may have to get in your car and drive away and let your sisters know your Dad is currently on his own and requires care to force the issue. Tell them the day you are planning to return to work and advise them to sort out between themselves who will look after him. They won't be long coming round to private care then.

13-08-2020 8:50pm

I gave up work to be my dads full time Carer in Feb 2017. I love my dad so much but I hate this part of my life.

I went from working in a busy environment talking about anything and everything to cooking, moving and cleaning my dad or staring at the light switch in my parents kitchen.

I’ve gained weight, I have the worst thoughts sometimes and my biggest fear is this could go on for another 10 years ( I don’t know) and by then I’ll be in my 50s and could get ill myself. And those years after my children had flown the coop had passed me by.

If the money is there, get a full time care team. I wish you well and sorry about the loss of your mother.

Tilikum17 · 13-08-2020 8:58pm

StereoSound wrote: »

My mother died unexpectedly in the past few weeks. She was the carer of my Dad who is not in a right frame of mind for maybe 10 years now. There is a lot of things he cannot do such as being left alone in the house at any time. He has issues making proper decisions and he has sort of a childish understanding of things. Saying that, he can walk down to the shop alone and buy a litre of milk or other simple things like that but most other things is a no.

I have two sisters, and because Mum died someone has to take care of Dad on a full time basis. I have temporarily moved in with Dad into the family home but my sisters seem to think I should be the one to be his carer and quit my job in the process to do it.... This is not something I want to do, I don't want to quit my job and live with my sick father until the day he dies. That is not really fair on me and my sisters insist they cannot do this because of relationships and work. I have my own life made outside this house to. My mother never wanted to put my Dad into a nursing home and I can understand that, they would just drug the man up until the day he passes. She worked in nursing homes and hospitals all her life and she would tell us exactly what goes on with mentally ill patients.

I told my sisters that I am not going to live with Dad in this way because it suits "their lifestyles" .... I have my own life and as much as I care for my Dad I cannot sit here in the house with him day and night doing nothing but cooking and cleaning for him and watching him the whole time. I was with my mother the moment she died in her bedroom as we waited for the ambulance to arrive, she had some sort of heart complications that led to her death or so we believe until we get proper toxicology results ..... My Dad is 80 and who knows when he could go and the notion of him also dying in my presence like Mum did scares the life out of me . I am depressed enough over my Mum right now and I am being nailed against the wall here to become Dads carer. I have my own house to pay for and I will lose that if I quit my job...

I did suggest to my sisters to get a live in carer into the house for Dad. We don't know how this would actually work or how much it would cost. My mother left a very healthy sum of money to my Dad and a live in carer would probably be doable. Plus my mothers life insurance payout would also help cover costs for my Dads care.

Has anyone got any advice on this ?

Do that have a family home, op?

Unfortunately in every family there’s siblings that do nothing for their parents in times like this.

I know from experience.

My advice is to ignore yer man above though to drive away and leave him.

The fair deal scheme. Between the house your mums savings you’d be fine surely?? You’d need to speak to a solicitor

Tilikum17 · 13-08-2020 9:00pm

StereoSound wrote: »

My mother died unexpectedly in the past few weeks. She was the carer of my Dad who is not in a right frame of mind for maybe 10 years now. There is a lot of things he cannot do such as being left alone in the house at any time. He has issues making proper decisions and he has sort of a childish understanding of things. Saying that, he can walk down to the shop alone and buy a litre of milk or other simple things like that but most other things is a no.

I have two sisters, and because Mum died someone has to take care of Dad on a full time basis. I have temporarily moved in with Dad into the family home but my sisters seem to think I should be the one to be his carer and quit my job in the process to do it.... This is not something I want to do, I don't want to quit my job and live with my sick father until the day he dies. That is not really fair on me and my sisters insist they cannot do this because of relationships and work. I have my own life made outside this house to. My mother never wanted to put my Dad into a nursing home and I can understand that, they would just drug the man up until the day he passes. She worked in nursing homes and hospitals all her life and she would tell us exactly what goes on with mentally ill patients.

I told my sisters that I am not going to live with Dad in this way because it suits "their lifestyles" .... I have my own life and as much as I care for my Dad I cannot sit here in the house with him day and night doing nothing but cooking and cleaning for him and watching him the whole time. I was with my mother the moment she died in her bedroom as we waited for the ambulance to arrive, she had some sort of heart complications that led to her death or so we believe until we get proper toxicology results ..... My Dad is 80 and who knows when he could go and the notion of him also dying in my presence like Mum did scares the life out of me . I am depressed enough over my Mum right now and I am being nailed against the wall here to become Dads carer. I have my own house to pay for and I will lose that if I quit my job...

I did suggest to my sisters to get a live in carer into the house for Dad. We don't know how this would actually work or how much it would cost. My mother left a very healthy sum of money to my Dad and a live in carer would probably be doable. Plus my mothers life insurance payout would also help cover costs for my Dads care.

Has anyone got any advice on this ?

Do that have a family home, op?

Unfortunately in every family there’s siblings that do nothing for their parents in times like this.

I know from experience.

My advice is to ignore yer man above though to drive away and leave him.

The fair deal scheme. Between the house your mums savings you’d be fine surely?? You’d need to speak to a solicitor

13-08-2020 9:04pm

I know your mum worked in nursing homes and was dubious about them but I wouldn’t discount them. There are very good ones. Just need to do a lot of research.

Sardonicat · 13-08-2020 9:06pm

Tilikum17 wrote: »

Do that have a family home, op?

Unfortunately in every family there’s siblings that do nothing for their parents in times like this.

I know from experience.

My advice is to ignore yer man above though to drive away and leave him.

The fair deal scheme. Between the house your mums savings you’d be fine surely?? You’d need to speak to a solicitor

I'm not suggesting he drives away and leaves him. I'm suggesting that until the sisters are forced to engage with providing a solution to hands on care they won't try and engage in a solution. Getting in the car while one or both of them are there or letting them know the date op is returning to work so he won't be available to provide care from that date on might be the only way of doing it. I was dragged down the corridor by the hair by my sister when I tried to leave the house for a few hours. Suggesting rotas is fine when dealing with decent, reasonable people bit of think the op is dealing with people who want their Dad cared for at home but don't want to actually do it. The rotas are soon forgotten, believe me.

Sorry about that · 13-08-2020 9:07pm

Hi op. I would get in touch with your GP and Public Health nurse, and get your Dad fully assessed by the multi disciplinary team. This may include occupational therapy, elderly medicine, and/or psychiatry of old age. This will provide you with a picture of your Dad's current needs, and may also shed light on the road ahead, allowing you to make realistic plans. You and your siblings can't do this yourselves.

Your mother was obviously a wonderful carer, and either qualified or experienced enough to deliver this care. While she may have been very against the idea of nursing home care for your Dad; she may not have considered the problems that might arise in her absence. I'm sure she said what she said, seeing herself at the helm, but in time, she may not have been able to continue, as your Dad's needs increased.

This is a very difficult time, and you're probably unable to grieve properly for your mother while it's all being ironed out. It'll work itself out; R.I.P your Mam.

beauf · 13-08-2020 9:09pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

He doesn't want to be his Dad's carer. There is no way you can supplement with private carers on Carers Allowance if you intend to eat . Day Centres are currently closed with no opening date in sight. If his sisters try to shaft him and abandon their Dad he would be well within his rights to burn his bridges. I've burned my bridges with my siblings for doing exactly that to me.

OP, if there is money there to pay for private care then go with that option. You may have to get in your car and drive away and let your sisters know your Dad is currently on his own and requires care to force the issue. Tell them the day you are planning to return to work and advise them to sort out between themselves who will look after him. They won't be long coming round to private care then.

I never suggested him being the stay at carer? No idea where you got that from.

I'm just saying you can mix public carers and private carers. Sometimes from the same company. Which would make the saving last longer. But someone has to manage it. If everyone just walks away and doesn't want to be involved then him remaining at home isn't an option anyway.

You can't bully anyone else into doing something they don't want to do. Personally I wouldn't abandon a parent as you're suggesting. I'd just get care sorted without involving the siblings that don't want to be involved.

Tilikum17 · 13-08-2020 9:10pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

I'm not suggesting he drives away and leaves him. I'm suggesting that until the sisters are forced to engage with providing a solution to hands on care they won't try and engage in a solution. Getting in the car while one or both of them are there or letting them know the date op is returning to work so he won't be available to provide care from that date on might be the only way of doing it. I was dragged down the corridor by the hair by my sister when I tried to leave the house for a few hours. Suggesting rotas is fine when dealing with decent, reasonable people bit of think the op is dealing with people who want their Dad cared for at home but don't want to actually do it. The rotas are soon forgotten, believe me.

Go back and read your post.

beauf · 13-08-2020 9:12pm

You need to get the legal aspect sorted. Control of the funds etc. Also who can make decisions. Medical and wellbeing.

ax530 · 13-08-2020 9:14pm

Very sorry to hear about your mother death.
Due to your dad's condition a ward of court may need to be appointed. Lots of good advice above over where to find information on a love in carer there are many good ones out there sure you will find a fit. Well done standing ground I imagine full time carer super difficult cannot see him being in best care if you are pushed into it. Still a lot of work involved for family even when carer living v in home.
Take care

Sardonicat · 13-08-2020 9:16pm

beauf wrote: »

I never suggested him being the stay at carer? No idea where you got that from.

I'm just saying you can mix public carers and private carers. Sometimes from the same company. Which would make the saving last longer. But someone has to manage it. If everyone just walks away and doesn't want to be involved then him remaining at home isn't an option anyway.

You can't bully anyone else into doing something they don't want to do. Personally I wouldn't abandon a parent as you're suggesting. I'd just get care sorted without involving the siblings that don't want to be involved.

I have never at any point suggested he abandoned his parent . I've been a full time carer for over four years myself and yes I was lied to and bullied and assaulted by my siblings. I would never do what they have done, which is to abondon their Dad. I don't know how you think you can get Carer's Allowance without being a carer? The cost of one night's private care is half the full weekly rate of carers. So, while in theory you are entitled to supplement with private care it's simply too prohibitive.

Sardonicat · 13-08-2020 9:18pm

Tilikum17 wrote: »

Go back and read your post.

If one or both of his sisters are their when he drives away, how is that abandoning him? He's their Dad too.

beauf · 13-08-2020 9:19pm

I think you've got to find a balance that works for you. In terms of doing as much as you feel you can. But not take on too much. Where this is varies for different people.

On one hand I wouldn't be judgemental about where others decide their limits are. But at the same don't take on too much because you're being bullied or guilted into it.

beauf · 13-08-2020 9:23pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

I have never at any point suggested he abandoned his parent . I've been a full time carer for over four years myself and yes I was lied to and bullied and assaulted by my siblings. I would never do what they have done, which is to abondon their Dad. I don't know how you think you can get Carer's Allowance without being a carer? The cost of one night's private care is half the full weekly rate of carers. So, while in theory you are entitled to supplement with private care it's simply too prohibitive.

I never suggested getting carers allowance. I wouldn't quit work myself. Take unpaid leave or annual leave till you get it sorted.

I think you have had a traumatic experience yourself. You have my empathy. But let's not burn the bridges here too soon.

Sonic the Shaghog · 13-08-2020 9:30pm

Why do I get the feeling of the OP suggests putting dad into a nursing home where the family home value and the money his wife left him will be sucked up by the HSE the sisters will be against that too :rolleyes:

Sardonicat · 13-08-2020 9:30pm

He requires his sisters' engagement to get the finances sorted. He won't be able to do that unilaterally. I'd wager they are worried about their inheritance .

OP, your first port of call is with the Public Health Nurse. Don't hold your breath for a home care package as these tend to just stretch to a few hours a week tops spread over a few days but you might be lucky.

13-08-2020 9:32pm

Maximum home care package is 21 hours and you have to fight for that. In my case that’s 2 carers for 30 minutes 3 times a day for 7 days.

Sardonicat · 13-08-2020 9:39pm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Maximum home care package is 21 hours and you have to fight for that. In my case that’s 2 carers for 30 minutes 3 times a day for 7 days.

That's a good package, Strawberry. I get 30 mins 5 day a week and apparently that's one of the more generous packages locally!. OP, it's also relevant that the kind of home package hours available varies regionally as does what kind of needs qualify for home care. It comes down to resources, obviously.

beauf · 13-08-2020 10:48pm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Maximum home care package is 21 hours and you have to fight for that. In my case that’s 2 carers for 30 minutes 3 times a day for 7 days.

Same here though we structure it in one block daily at the weekends as we are around most of the time..at the weekends.

beauf · 13-08-2020 10:50pm

Home carers isn't straight forward as they have to click with the person and the family and this might take a while to establish and then they might switch.

Mum died, Dad non composmentis

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