Advice: Become a teacher

06-09-2019 12:48am

When in school, salary is never brought up during career guidance. It's all about do what you love. So 16 year olds give very little thought about salary.

Then with the union mouthpiece that is Rte, all school students heard was how badly off teachers are.

It is not until later, the lie is exposed.

Of course for those of us in school prior to the Internet, all we could go by was the breathless Ingrid Miley outside some conference or other.

There was no looking up salary scales on the ASTI website back then to look up the actual numbers.

Even today, it's clear teacher salaries are very competitive, outside the one square mile of the IFSC.

tonycascarino · 06-09-2019 4:16am

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Have a daughter a teacher. It’s a fine job in a lot of ways, and good money this side of the country. Nothing special in Dublin though, where the cost of living is much higher.

That is it in a nutshell. Teaching is grand job to have anywhere outside of Dublin.

06-09-2019 7:52am

tonycascarino wrote: »

That is it in a nutshell. Teaching is grand job to have anywhere outside of Dublin.

Even in Dublin, it's far from bad.

A 23 year old new teacher will take home €2200 a month. €700 to rent a room leaves €1500 for beer and bills which should be plenty. That's the worst case scenario a new full-time teacher can find themselves in.

99problems1 · 06-09-2019 10:47am

emilymemily wrote: »

Since when have teachers got a starting salary of 38k? That's laughable, its actually 36k but thats only for full time hours, most teachers dont earn anything even close to this, even permanent FE and post primary teachers are lucky to have 11 hours a week.

Most teachers, particularly post primary and FE are working two jobs to make ends meet., some travelling 4+ hours a day to work and they are the lucky ones as they have a teaching job to go to, many teachers have left the profession after 6 years of study because of the lack of jobs and permanency, only permanent teachers get paid for Summers and holidays, Substitute teachers either have to sign on or take up a second job.
Teachers dont get academic allowances anymore either.

It takes 6 years to train to become a teacher, thats the same amount of time it takes to become a doctor to be met with unemployment at the end of it, teacher bashing in the general public due to misinformation and nepotism and corruption in a broken education system.

Most teachers dont get permanency for years after graduating, some never do.

As for the job itself, it is not a 9 -3 or 9 - 4 job.
Teachers often start work an hour before classes start and dont leave school until 5 or half 5, every evening there are staff meetings, preparations for the next school day, corrections, folders to sort out, paper work to do, lesson plans, lesson materials, each child has to be considered in every lesson given and lessons adjusted to suit individual children's needs this includes behaviour, ability and child's interests. Allot of work has to be brought home and teachers work through weekends and holidays trying to get through all the paper work. Then there is the training days, upskilling courses that are a mandatory part of the job - these courses are done during holidays and after school.
During the working day you have to consistently be 'on', find the balance of being warm, friendly and open to students, dealing with behaviour issues, knowing each child and their triggers is very important just to get through the day - last year I had a bipolar child in my class who could storm out of the class, hit a teacher, another child or harm himself without any warning, the same child could be exceptionally well behaved, finding the right balance with children and knowing how to keep them calm and understanding their individual personalities is a big part of the job.
No matter what you have going on in your life or what stress you are under, you cant bring it into the classroom.

As said before teachers can be not the nicest of people, unfortunately ive found this to be very true in my experience working in schools, there are some fantastic teachers but quite allot of teachers are on a power trip and tend to think theyre better than everyone else and this is coming from a teacher, bullying in the staffroom isnt uncommon unfortunately which of course doesnt help the difficulties and stress already dealt with by teachers.

Complete contrast to all the teachers I have known.

Even when I was going to school, the carpark was empty except for 2 or 3 cars (principal was always there).I could be in class at half 9 and look out the window and see teachers arriving.

Even in primary school we'd start at 9:20 and we'd have to queue up outside the door because the principal wouldn't arrive until around then.

I even did this study group in the evenings from 4-6 all year long and most teachers left around 4:10, 25 minutes after school finishes.

99problems1 · 06-09-2019 10:58am

Zaph wrote: »

As someone married to an ex-teacher, I've seen first hand the emotional and mental strain that teachers can come under. Sure, some are able to coast through their whole career because they've been lucky with the schools or areas they're teaching in/the ethos of the school/the support provided by management, etc., but your sweeping suggestion that all teachers have a cushy number is way off the mark. The vast majority have to put up with increasingly ill-behaved kids, demanding parents and an education system that is permanently struggling for funding.

A second teacher in my wife's family has been qualified for 4 or 5 years and she's yet to get any job more secure than maternity leave cover. So while the money might be decent enough for people entering the profession, actually getting a job in the first place is far from certain. With all this in mind it's a wonder why anyone would want to become a teacher.

That's because in my experience they have no real world experience and are mentally weak.

As I mentioned in the thread, my experience with teachers is they think they're in the classroom all their lives. They think they can boss people around.

I was on a date with one before and went to a chipper after the night and it was close to closing. They didn't have this chicken for a burger left and when she was told she just had a big angry head on her, sighed with a serious face on her and looked at the menu above. Didn't say a word to the person who told her they didn't have any left. She could have said "ohh really, let me think one second"

They have no real world experience or know how things work.

I remember a couple years back when they were threatening to go on strike I was discussing with a friend of a friend who is a teacher. I was saying how teachers starting out make great money compared to a private sector graduates.

You know what they said?

"Yeah, but we have to pay tax on that!" :pac::pac::pac:

r93kaey5p2izun · 06-09-2019 11:01am

Teaching can be an enjoyable and rewarding job but it is not a viable option if you intend to support yourself as a single person, in a decent lifestyle any professional would have reasonable expectation of, in the Dublin area.

The significant, and growing, shortage of teachers in the region speaks volumes. Post primary teachers in key subject areas are not willing to accept the terms and conditions on offer and are getting out in their droves. Holidays don't pay the mortgage.

My first choice job is teaching but I will not be going back although I enjoyed 12 years of it. I can make a lot more money for lot less hassle elsewhere, and particularly a lot less snide and ignorant comments about my work. I would not recommend anyone who has the ability to train in another professional area, or a trade, to go in to teaching - and that's the majority of those going into it. Maybe consider it later in life if you have reached a point where you can afford to and have another career to fall back on. This is common enough now with Hibernia available, though all but one of the 20+ people I know who have done this have packed it in, either due to money or it not being the cushy number they had been led to expect.

emilymemily · 06-09-2019 11:07am

99problems1 wrote: »

Complete contrast to all the teachers I have known.

Even when I was going to school, the carpark was empty except for 2 or 3 cars (principal was always there).I could be in class at half 9 and look out the window and see teachers arriving.

Even in primary school we'd start at 9:20 and we'd have to queue up outside the door because the principal wouldn't arrive until around then.

I even did this study group in the evenings from 4-6 all year long and most teachers left around 4:10, 25 minutes after school finishes.

How long is it since you were at school? Teaching has changed considerably over the past few years, there is an increasing amount of paper work and assessments as Irelands education system is following the UK.
In my last school all staff had to be in by 8.30, principal included.
Im a substitute teacher and regularly stay behind getting things sorted for the next day, attend meetings after school with all the staff I work with in which we discuss problems that arose during the day, upcoming events within the school, courses that need to be taken, we also have our croke park hours - 33 hours of unpiad work that take place after class time when children go home.

Zaph · 06-09-2019 11:17am

99problems1 wrote: »

That's because in my experience they have no real world experience and are mentally weak.

All teachers are mentally weak? I've seen some nonsense in my many years on Boards, but that definitely ranks up there with some of the dumbest statements I've ever seen. Sounds like the teacher you went on the date with had a lucky escape if that's your opinion of them.

endacl · 06-09-2019 11:37am

I’ve got 99 problems, but the OP ain’t one.

<Ignore>

99problems1 · 06-09-2019 11:40am

emilymemily wrote: »

How long is it since you were at school? Teaching has changed considerably over the past few years, there is an increasing amount of paper work and assessments as Irelands education system is following the UK.
In my last school all staff had to be in by 8.30, principal included.
Im a substitute teacher and regularly stay behind getting things sorted for the next day, attend meetings after school with all the staff I work with in which we discuss problems that arose during the day, upcoming events within the school, courses that need to be taken, we also have our croke park hours - 33 hours of unpiad work that take place after class time when children go home.

Left school 10 years ago.

Raconteuse · 06-09-2019 11:42am

It is certainly a good job, but obviously not an easy job. Even the tiniest bit of critical thinking would cause realisation of this. It's why I didn't opt for it.

99problems1 · 06-09-2019 11:52am

Zaph wrote: »

All teachers are mentally weak? I've seen some nonsense in my many years on Boards, but that definitely ranks up there with some of the dumbest statements I've ever seen. Sounds like the teacher you went on the date with had a lucky escape if that's your opinion of them.

Yep.

"we have to deal with cranky parents."

People on minimum wage in retail have to deal with just as bad if not worse cases. That's the thing I'm talking about, no real world experience.

Teachers think they're the only ones faced with adversity. They think everyone getting on great without fuss is how things are expected to be and a parent complaining is some awful experience.

Imagine the lads in Eir or Virgin media customer service and you'll know about difficult customers then.

mariaalice · 06-09-2019 12:00pm

The op is has come up a slight riff on the theme of the grass is always greener/ a coping mechanism, namely fantasising about becoming a teacher and in their head its a paradise of a handy number combined with lots of money and time off.

optogirl · 06-09-2019 12:08pm

99problems1 wrote: »

Yep.

"we have to deal with cranky parents."

People on minimum wage in retail have to deal with just as bad if not worse cases. That's the thing I'm talking about, no real world experience.

Teachers think they're the only ones faced with adversity. They think everyone getting on great without fuss is how things are expected to be and a parent complaining is some awful experience.

Imagine the lads in Eir or Virgin media customer service and you'll know about difficult customers then.

Teachers are not just dealing with cranky customers, they are dealing with people who expect their child to be given first class education as well as guidance which will help their wellbeing, friendships, self esteem and myriad other issues. Each child has their own unique foibles & issues, strengths and weaknesses and tailoring classes and support for circa 30 kids on a daily basis must be some slog. I used to think I'd like being a teacher but now that I have kids in primary school I can see that it really is a vocation and takes a special type of person to do it. I simply wouldn't have the patience or ability to go home and switch off that is required. I have nothing but respect for them and think they deserve good pay & good holidays.

Insect Overlord · 06-09-2019 12:20pm

And then you have parents who come in looking for polar opposites.

One might think their child is doing great in Irish and maths, and say it'd be lovely if they could all do more Art or Drama instead. Another comes in the day after and says their little angel is getting far too much homework and can't cope with it. Then you get the parent who wants them all to get more written homework, more maths, more Irish.

You can try different seating arrangements and differentiated goals for students or higher/lower abilities, and then another parent turns up and says they don't want their child sitting near another particular child.

You might have to discipline a child for breaching their personalised behaviour plan, and someone on the other side of the room kicks off instead. You discipline them, and another parent comes in the next morning with concerns that the classroom atmosphere isn't pleasant and loving enough for their child.

It's like a constant juggling act, except some are pins, some are balls, some are blades, and any one of them can catch fire without warning, and the parents expect you to perform the juggling act on a unicycle, balanced on a tightrope, and they can come in like wild animals to the circus ring whenever they think you're not entertaining enough.

99problems1 · 06-09-2019 12:22pm

mariaalice wrote: »

The op is has come up a slight riff on the theme of the grass is always greener/ a coping mechanism, namely fantasising about becoming a teacher and in their head its a paradise of a handy number combined with lots of money and time off.

It is though.

99problems1 · 06-09-2019 12:24pm

optogirl wrote: »

Teachers are not just dealing with cranky customers, they are dealing with people who expect their child to be given first class education as well as guidance which will help their wellbeing, friendships, self esteem and myriad other issues. Each child has their own unique foibles & issues, strengths and weaknesses and tailoring classes and support for circa 30 kids on a daily basis must be some slog. I used to think I'd like being a teacher but now that I have kids in primary school I can see that it really is a vocation and takes a special type of person to do it. I simply wouldn't have the patience or ability to go home and switch off that is required. I have nothing but respect for them and think they deserve good pay & good holidays.

You're falling for their propaganda.

Majority of kids are average as the next.

spurious · 06-09-2019 12:24pm

I SO want this to be true and the OP to come back when qualified and tell us all about their adventures getting a full-time position in teaching.

spurious · 06-09-2019 12:25pm

99problems1 wrote: »

Imagine the lads in Eir or Virgin media customer service and you'll know about difficult customers then.

Do the customers punch them in the face and spit at them?

optogirl · 06-09-2019 12:29pm

99problems1 wrote: »

You're falling for their propaganda.

Majority of kids are average as the next.

what propaganda? Christ, a birthday party with 10 of them is pain enough in the hoop

Raconteuse · 06-09-2019 12:32pm

I think people should stop engaging now, because they are only trying to get a rise out of people and why give them exactly what they want?

kippy · 06-09-2019 12:34pm

The grass is always greener on the other side.

There are no doubt, lots of benefits to being a teacher, there are also lots of negatives. Same with every profession really.

kippy · 06-09-2019 12:35pm

99problems1 wrote: »

You're falling for their propaganda.

Majority of kids are average as the next.

As a matter of interest, do you have kids?

99problems1 · 06-09-2019 12:43pm

spurious wrote: »

Do the customers punch them in the face and spit at them?

I would say it's as common as teaching yes.

How many teachers would get spit on and punched? Never heard of any example of this happening from my experience ever.

Working in a bar would run a bigger risk of this, or working in a bookies that gets robbed.

The Tetrarch · 06-09-2019 12:47pm

99problems1 wrote: »

Below is a post from yesterday. One person "exhausted" already after a week back at school.
Most teachers wouldn't survive in the private sector.

Years back my sister told me of a teacher who wanted to quit and work in business.
He did. He joined an Irish multinational. Six months later he was out of a job.

99problems1 · 06-09-2019 12:47pm

kippy wrote: »

As a matter of interest, do you have kids?

No but I was a kid once. No special attention or "specific guidance".

Like ffs, if a career guidance teacher whose only role is to specifically give advice on what career someone should do can't even give specific advice, what can you expect a teacher to do? A career guidance teacher told a girl in my year she suggest science courses in college because she said she liked doing experiments. The girl failed chemistry in the LC and never did Bio or Physics....girl got into the course and dropped out after a year.

optogirl · 06-09-2019 12:49pm

99problems1 wrote: »

No but I was a kid once. No special attention or "specific guidance".

Like ffs, if a career guidance teacher whose only role is to specifically give advice on what career someone should do can't even give specific advice, what can you expect a teacher to do? A career guidance teacher told a girl in my year she suggest science courses in college because she said she liked doing experiments. The girl failed chemistry in the LC and never did Bio or Physics....girl got into the course and dropped out after a year.

Well I guess standards of education have improved since you were a kid and aren't we lucky.

99problems1 · 06-09-2019 12:50pm

optogirl wrote: »

Well I guess standards of education have improved since you were a kid and aren't we lucky.

They can't have improved that much!

kippy · 06-09-2019 12:57pm

99problems1 wrote: »

No but I was a kid once. No special attention or "specific guidance".

Like ffs, if a career guidance teacher whose only role is to specifically give advice on what career someone should do can't even give specific advice, what can you expect a teacher to do? A career guidance teacher told a girl in my year she suggest science courses in college because she said she liked doing experiments. The girl failed chemistry in the LC and never did Bio or Physics....girl got into the course and dropped out after a year.

Sure were't we all kids once.

Kids think being an astronaut was a realistic and handy profession.
Everyone thinks teaching is a handy number yet for some reason, I don't see everyone actually wanting to be a teacher.

handlemaster · 06-09-2019 1:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Pay is awful. It got worse during the recession and never recovered. My friend started recently enough and he's barely able to make ends meet living in Dublin.

your friend didnt he their homework salaries are well published. The salaries are among the highest in europe. If they dont like the salary dont train for the job.

andekwarhola · 06-09-2019 1:09pm

I don't begrudge teachers, gardai, nurses, childcare workers etc whatever they make or their time off as I think they are professions that are intrinsically meaningful to society.

I certainly am happy to do a relatively easier and far less stressful profession for my living.

I guess as well I just find it hard to get too worked up about what other people choose to do for a living, especially if I have no interest in doing it myself.

handlemaster · 06-09-2019 1:14pm

andekwarhola wrote: »

I don't begrudge teachers, gardai, nurses, childcare workers etc whatever they make or their time off as I think they are orofessions that are intrinsically meaningful to society.

I certainly am happy to do a relatively easier and far less stressful profession for my living.

I guess as well I just find it hard to get too worked up about what other people choose to do for a living, especially if I have no interest in doing it myself.

agreed , Whou would train for a job that they want to do , sign a contract with the terms for that job then start complaining about the job and the conditions. Thats just not smart.

Moomoomacshoe · 06-09-2019 1:56pm

enricoh wrote: »

Define awful?
38k starting salary on day one seems generous to me

It's the taxes ..the imaginary pension funds so you pay for imaginary things..thats why the pay is woeful. Add in all the kids with additional meeds and no help in the classroom. Do it for a week see how you go..I know because my friends are exhausted. Its different kind of work

handlemaster · 06-09-2019 2:58pm

Moomoomacshoe wrote: »

enricoh wrote: »

Define awful?
38k starting salary on day one seems generous to me

It's the taxes ..the imaginary pension funds so you pay for imaginary things..thats why the pay is woeful. Add in all the kids with additional meeds and no help in the classroom. Do it for a week see how you go..I know because my friends are exhausted. Its different kind of work

Did they not look at what the job entailed before starting training ? Is there any personal left in this country

mariaalice · 06-09-2019 3:00pm

Be a great job except for the 30 children in the class you have to deal with, or even worse the 30 teenagers.

moycullen14 · 06-09-2019 3:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If you wanna talk about work shy, work in IT. If I wanted to, I could probably work from home for a week, spoof my daily meetings, make up that I'm having issues with my development environment so I have to reinstall everything and watch netflix for the week.

This is so true. You have a cohort of managers that literally have no clue what developers are doing 'Ah, I have to reinstall the sprigot factory persistence engine, probably take a few days...'

And the old favourite.....

'Just waiting for a build....'

Of course, the fact that a huge percentage of those working in IT are useless doesn't help'

It's a great job, Specially if you can swing working from home (hah)

El Tarangu · 06-09-2019 3:27pm

Teaching is a hard job, but it is also a very well-paid job.

As part of my job, I sometimes work in schools, and find dealing with kids exhausting, I don't know how teachers manage it (though I suppose the holidays help a bit).

Teachers are also always playing the poor mouth - I remember the last time that teachers were threatening to strike for more pay, it was around mid-term break, and my instagram feed was filled with posts from teachers who had gone to Dubai for the week...

mloc123 · 06-09-2019 3:29pm

Pay is pretty poor, maximum you will ever earn is only 70k?

CrankyHaus · 06-09-2019 3:36pm

Like anyone else in Ireland who has it good Teachers are great at playing the poor mouth.

We pay them relatively well and give them good conditions.

However this is probably for the best as it keeps standards up. Of all the public sector organisations I deal with through work schools are the most impressive in terms of consistently efficient, professional management and staff. Exceptions to this are rare. A lot of the rest of the Public and Private Sector is miles behind.

So yeah, we pay a lot but you get what you pay for, unlike say in Banking where high remuneration brought us clowns who crashed the economy.

endacl · 06-09-2019 3:40pm

mloc123 wrote: »

Pay is pretty poor, maximum you will ever earn is only 70k?

The pay is grand, depending on your circumstances. I’m one of those the OP was probably complaining about. I’ve a handy timetable, (practically) zero stress hours, I never have to take work home or do corrections, have a very nice defined benefit pension, and plenty of time for a second career. I’m few and far between though. I wouldn’t swop places with any of my colleagues teaching in mainstream if you offered me double the pay and holidays. Never actually intended to be a teacher. Accidentally ended up as one about 20 years ago when I agreed to cover some ESL classes for a neighbour....

El Tarangu · 06-09-2019 4:04pm

mloc123 wrote: »

Pay is pretty poor, maximum you will ever earn is only 70k?

There is a cap on eventual earning potential, for sure; but teaching pays better than most other jobs that one could get with a humanities degree straight out of college, and it would take a fair few years for the other professions to catch up.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 06-09-2019 4:08pm

Moomoomacshoe wrote: »

It's the taxes ..the imaginary pension funds so you pay for imaginary things..thats why the pay is woeful. Add in all the kids with additional meeds and no help in the classroom. Do it for a week see how you go..I know because my friends are exhausted. Its different kind of work

The pension isn’t imaginary.

Anyway being a teacher isn’t that easy. It’s on most of the time, in front of the crowd and preparing classes and corrrecting at night.

My parents did it and none of us want to do it.

06-09-2019 4:13pm

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

The pension isn’t imaginary.

Anyway being a teacher isn’t that easy. It’s on most of the time, in front of the crowd and preparing classes and corrrecting at night.

My parents did it and none of us want to do it.

I went through a tough personal time a few years ago (well documented on this site), and going into a classroom and having to be "on" was an absolute killer. I was crying out for my old job just so people wouldn't be looking at me for hours every day while seeing my stress and unhappy face that I couldn't hide.

You're an actor basically. You have to pretend non-stop.

Snow Garden · 06-09-2019 4:52pm

Secondary school teachers work 114 days a year. Not a bad deal if you love your job.

handlemaster · 06-09-2019 4:53pm

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Moomoomacshoe wrote: »

It's the taxes ..the imaginary pension funds so you pay for imaginary things..thats why the pay is woeful. Add in all the kids with additional meeds and no help in the classroom. Do it for a week see how you go..I know because my friends are exhausted. Its different kind of work

The pension isn’t imaginary.

Anyway being a teacher isn’t that easy. It’s on most of the time, in front of the crowd and preparing classes and corrrecting at night.

My parents did it and none of us want to do it.

Simple to the people that want to do it do it. To the people that dont want to , dont do it. There are millions of career choices why choose one you dont like.. continue to do it and give poor education to the next generation

endacl · 06-09-2019 4:59pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

There is a cap on eventual earning potential, for sure; but teaching pays better than most other jobs that one could get with a humanities degree straight out of college, and it would take a fair few years for the other professions to catch up.

Plus a two year postgraduate qualification to level 9.

A newly qualified teacher these days has spent at least 5 years (more likely 6] working towards the qualification.

joe40 · 06-09-2019 5:01pm

Teaching is a good job, but only if you have interest in education and can get on with kids.
Don't just do it for the holidays.
I teach secondary and it is fine, but in no way could I handle primary teaching. Pay and holidays would not make it worthwhile for me.

Don't think teaching is an easy option, if you're not suited you will be miserable

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 06-09-2019 5:05pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Simple to the people that want to do it do it. To the people that dont want to , dont do it. There are millions of career choices why choose one you dont like.. continue to do it and give poor education to the next generation

Not sure who you are lecturing here but I don’t do it.

handlemaster · 06-09-2019 5:08pm

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

handlemaster wrote: »

Simple to the people that want to do it do it. To the people that dont want to , dont do it. There are millions of career choices why choose one you dont like.. continue to do it and give poor education to the next generation

Not sure who you are lecturing here but I don’t do it.

Why reply then ? Because you do.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 06-09-2019 6:05pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Why reply then ? Because you do.

Do what. I don’t teach.

Advice: Become a teacher

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