Closing Schools - What about working parents !!!

jrosen · 11-03-2020 3:27pm

If schools need to close then they need to close.
But its totally understandable for parents to be concerned. Taking a day or two off for a sick child is totally different to needing to take time off at short notice for an undetermined length of time.

Not everyone has grandparents or friends. Not to mention elderly grandparents in the higher risk category.
We have no family support.
Working parents try really hard to balance their work around school as it is, start times end times, schools holidays and other days in the calendar year that require early pick up or teaching training days off.

Antares35 · 11-03-2020 3:34pm

Understandable that parents are concerned, but as someone in an at risk group, I'd be really annoyed if they were left open just so people have somewhere for their kids to go during the day.

Captain Flaps · 11-03-2020 3:38pm

Cordell wrote: »

If their kids are not at school their parents can't be at work, and this will affect us all when the economy collapses.

What does OP do with their kids during the summer months?

Princess Calla · 11-03-2020 3:42pm

Captain Flaps wrote: »

What does OP do with their kids during the summer months?

You know those months are off so arrangements are probably made well in advance.

This is unprecedented.

Cordell · 11-03-2020 3:42pm

Well, ask him, I reckon they usually make arrangements as summer is something quite predictable, at least time wise

Captain Flaps · 11-03-2020 3:44pm

Absolutely, I'm just making the point that if solutions exist for 25% of the year, I'm sure they're plausible options for this. Unless of course you save up during the school year to pay for extra childminding which would A) be too expensive to maintain longer term or

not available because those people are also not working.

iamwhoiam · 11-03-2020 3:45pm

Captain Flaps wrote: »

What does OP do with their kids during the summer months?

Most people have arrangements for the summer as they know the school calendar . I know for example many Polish workers bring their parents over for the summer to mind kids

ax530 · 11-03-2020 3:54pm

Reducing the impact of the virus is something that everyone can do a bit to help.

If schools are closed so will the secondary schools and colleges.
There will be plenty of people willing to do babysitting jobs as those who have part time work/ 0 hour contracts in hospitality type jobs will be glad of some work. Already there are lots of people impacted by loss of earnings. It would work well if you hired someone like that to cover your childcare while school closed.

My work is flexible and can work from home. So I expect I would be able to do an hour in morning and afternoon then fill in rest of time evenings when children bed.
I would be willing to help out friends\neighbours during the day by minding their children also.

Princess Calla · 11-03-2020 4:00pm

ax530 wrote: »

Reducing the impact of the virus is something that everyone can do a bit to help.

If schools are closed so will the secondary schools and colleges.
There will be plenty of people willing to do babysitting jobs as those who have part time work/ 0 hour contracts in hospitality type jobs will be glad of some work. Already there are lots of people impacted by loss of earnings. It would work well if you hired someone like that to cover your childcare while school closed.

My work is flexible and can work from home. So I expect I would be able to do an hour in morning and afternoon then fill in rest of time evenings when children bed.
I would be willing to help out friends\neighbours during the day by minding their children also.

As a parent I would be reluctant to "hire" someone not garda vetted.

I'm not affected by this, so I'm not saying that to be awkward.

Sleeper12 · 11-03-2020 4:00pm

Cordell wrote: »

Well, ask him, I reckon they usually make arrangements as summer is something quite predictable, at least time wise

What if your child was Jaundiced? They could have to be off school for months with some illness. You'd have to come up with a plan then on even shorter notice & if your child had a contagious illness like Jaundice you couldn't buddy up with other parents.

It's part of life & part of being a parent

Flippyfloppy · 11-03-2020 4:04pm

Captain Flaps wrote: »

What does OP do with their kids during the summer months?

Summer camps...summer holidays I assume

Cordell · 11-03-2020 4:06pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What if your child was Jaundiced? They could have to be off school for months with some illness. You'd have to come up with a plan then on even shorter notice & if your child had a contagious illness like Jaundice you couldn't buddy up with other parents.

It's part of life & part of being a parent

All I'm trying to say is to have some sympathy.

marieholmfan · 11-03-2020 4:09pm

AulWan wrote: »

What would you prefer? The virus to spread and people to die?

Because that is the other option.

Everybody checks out sometime.

Immunocompromised etc. should be moved to a safe place.

Septuagenarians and Octogenarians should make a will and go to confession.

Lia_lia · 11-03-2020 4:13pm

Worrying for parents who work in healthcare. All well and good for office workers etc to stay at home but I know of a lot of families who have both parents in healthcare and it’s not ideal to take time off at the moment. Who will mind their kids?

BuboBubo · 11-03-2020 4:15pm

Lia_lia wrote: »

Worrying for parents who work in healthcare. All well and good for office workers etc to stay at home but I know of a lot of families who have both parents in healthcare and it’s not ideal to take time off at the moment. Who will mind their kids?

They could work opposite shifts? Lots of couples do.

Lia_lia · 11-03-2020 4:20pm

BuboBubo wrote: »

They could work opposite shifts? Lots of couples do.

True. Not possible for everyone though!

BuboBubo · 11-03-2020 4:22pm

Lia_lia wrote: »

True. Not possible for everyone though!

In Healthcare it is. Unfortunately in most circumstances one parent will need to take leave from work. My brother is stressed out about this at the moment too

Mrs OBumble · 11-03-2020 4:23pm

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

Hi All

Both my wife and I work and we have two primary school children. After school we make use of the nearby after school for minding our kids until we finish work. So if all of these places shut down what are we to do ? I can’t exactly trll my employer that I can’t work for the next two months as I have no one to mind the kids and secondly even if I did I won’t be entitled to any pay and we couldn’t survive for a couple of months with no money and we won’t be entitled to the 305 sick pay. I personally think the government need to think this through before they act. It’s all well and fine for teachers and the public sector but what about the Joe soaps with a regular job in the private sector. To say I’m worried is an understatement !!!

Talk to your employer about working part time, on opposite days or shifts to your partner.

The tax rules mean most workers will get about 75% of theurvnormal wage for working 50% of the week.

AulWan · 11-03-2020 4:28pm

First death in Ireland has occurred.

RIP.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-ireland-records-first-death-in-patient-with-covid-19-1.4199223

John Mason · 11-03-2020 4:29pm

we have worked it out

My partner will work from home 2 days and i will bring the child to work with me on other 2 days. I am lucky that I only work 4 days and that I have spare desk beside me.

_Brian · 11-03-2020 4:32pm

There is no easy solution but schools will likely be closed for extra weeks over Easter, probably 4 or 5 in total.

It’s a problem for working parents with young school going kids.

I don’t think mortgage payments will be suspended unless a full lockdown is ordered, maybe I’m wrong.

People need to be talking to employers now regarding solutions to this, it’s not a state responsibility to sort that problem.

jlm29 · 11-03-2020 4:42pm

BuboBubo wrote: »

They could work opposite shifts? Lots of couples do.

Not every healthcare worker works shift

lovethymac · 11-03-2020 4:45pm

Hey Lads listen to this one, a family in my kids school came back from a skiing trip in Northern Italy and brought their kids back into school
on Monday.. School couldn't stop them as they would be open to litigation... One of the parents is a Doctor also.. HOW F**KIN irresponsible is that ??? Parents are raging at the school and many pulled their kids due to underlying illness..

TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE... What is the story with Doctors being so irresponsible around this one?

daheff · 11-03-2020 4:47pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Us joe soaps in the public sector have kids and bills too you know.Plus a lower average wage

if the Dept of Health closes the schools you'll still get paid. And be guaranteed your job back.

In private sector we will see people not be paid and a number will see their employer go out of business too....so will lose their job.

AulWan · 11-03-2020 4:50pm

daheff wrote: »

if the Dept of Health closes the schools you'll still get paid. And be guaranteed your job back.

In private sector we will see people not be paid and a number will see their employer go out of business too....so will lose their job.

Whats your solution?

Go to work, get paid, contract the virus, potentially infect other people, and die?

Seriously, we've just had our first death confirmed in the East.

Whats not to understand, here? This is an international emergency.

spaceHopper · 11-03-2020 4:51pm

I'm more worried about my mother or my wife's father getting it, it would probably kill them, I'll suffer the pain of the schools closing but I'm lucky I could work from home in theory, I'll probably find out soon enough.

Dj Stiggie · 11-03-2020 4:51pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Everybody checks out sometime.

Immunocompromised etc. should be moved to a safe place.

Septuagenarians and Octogenarians should make a will and go to confession.

Cheers. I've had a really good 28 years on this planet. Should I just cut my wrists now or wait for the virus?

meeeeh · 11-03-2020 5:00pm

I may have missed something but I haven't seen anything where it would be said that kids who traveled to Italy should stay at home.

It seems everyone is an expert on Corona Virus and what should be done. It also seems that school what's app groups are the most hysterical.

On the subject of school closures there are no community transfers in Ireland at this time. Considering it is very disruptive to close schools and you want to limit the time schools are closed and kids seem to be less affected. So I don't know what closing schools at this time is supposed to achieve. I'm not saying it won't be needed in future.

DSN · 11-03-2020 5:01pm

Read the OP - He not using school as babysitter he has after school too which will also close along with creches etc that we still have to pay for. Though I do agree sorting stuff like this out is part of being a parent. I'd advise you & your partner start talking to your employers or clients (if self employed) on a contingency to minimize financial disruption. Am really hoping companies will be sympathetic & but I know that will not be the case for everyone.

daheff · 11-03-2020 5:10pm

AulWan wrote: »

Whats your solution?

Go to work, get paid, contract the virus, potentially infect other people, and die?

Seriously, we've just had our first death confirmed in the East.

My solution is to be rational and follow sensible guidelines to minimise the effects of this.

Closing schools now, while it will limit the spread now...won't eliminate the threat of the virus. Only by 100% quarantine of the country and stopping outsiders coming in from affected places will we stop the spread. We would need to lock EVERYTHING down for 2 weeks+duration of any infections (which looks to be approx 28 days). So 6 weeks assuming no additional infections.

If we don't stop flights/ferries coming in with people with possible infections then any school shut down will be irrelevant because it'll just start to spread again the moment any closure is lifted. What do we do then...shut everything down again for 6 weeks?

At the moment we have a negligible amount of the population with the virus. Any school that has a case should absolutely and without question shut for at least 14 days after the infection is spotted. All students and families should self isolate for this period.

Look at the school in Dublin which was shut around 2nd March because 1 student had tested positive. Have any other students contracted the virus?

Shutting schools/places of work are not a containment phase strategy. They are a mitigation phase strategy because of the disruption to everything that they cause. You forget that nurses and doctors have children too. Who should look after their kids because schools are shut? Or should those parents stay at home to look after their kids and not do their work? Every doctor and nurse you take out of circulation has a big knock on effect on the health system and capacity of the system.

If (and i hope its an if) we get more cases, and they aree community spread as opposed to the traceable cases we have now, then we should look at closing schools on a case by case basis...not blanket shutting. No point shutting schools in Ennis if there are no cases in Ennis. Anybody who is sending their kids to the school from outside the town and is from an infected area should not send their kids to school then.

AulWan wrote: »

Whats not to understand, here? This is an international emergency.

absolutely. The biggest solution to this is for anybody with symptoms to self isolate and not get on a bloody plane and travel abroad.

and as a by the way, both myself and my wife can work from home if schools get shut down, so i won't be overly affected by a shut down if it comes to that. I'm more concerned about the damage that an unnecessary shut will do all around.

Antares35 · 11-03-2020 5:13pm

meeeeh wrote: »

I may have missed something but I haven't seen anything where it would be said that kids who traveled to Italy should stay at home.

It seems everyone is an expert on Corona Virus and what should be done. It also seems that school what's app groups are the most hysterical.

On the subject of school closures there are no community transfers in Ireland at this time. Considering it is very disruptive to close schools and you want to limit the time schools are closed and kids seem to be less affected. So I don't know what closing schools at this time is supposed to achieve. I'm not saying it won't be needed in future.

Haven't there been several?

meeeeh · 11-03-2020 5:19pm

Antares35 wrote: »

Haven't there been several?

There are two or three now I think. That's the ones they don't know where they got it and those are the dangerous ones. The problem with school closures is also that kids will be often minded by grandparents who are most affected group.

tart29016 · 11-03-2020 5:25pm

Does anyone know if creche are closed do you still have to pay the creche fee?

meeeeh · 11-03-2020 5:30pm

tart29016 wrote: »

Does anyone know if creche are closed do you still have to pay the creche fee?

You might need to talk to your creche but the one mine were in charged for holidays. At least some overheads will be still there.

Icyseanfitz · 11-03-2020 5:30pm

meeeeh wrote: »

There are two or three now I think. That's the ones they don't know where they got it and those are the dangerous ones. The problem with school closures is also that kids will be often minded by grandparents who are most affected group.

I'd hope people would have more sense at this stage than to send their kids to the grandparents.

Antares35 · 11-03-2020 5:32pm

meeeeh wrote: »

There are two or three now I think. That's the ones they don't know where they got it and those are the dangerous ones. The problem with school closures is also that kids will be often minded by grandparents who are most affected group.

That's what I thought.

Good point regarding the child/ grandparent thing. To be honest, would there not be less risk of spreading keeping the kids in school rather than having them all out and about? All well and good closing schools, but not advising people to stay indoors, avoid large crowds etc.

tart29016 · 11-03-2020 5:34pm

meeeeh wrote: »

You might need to talk to your creche but the one mine were in charged for holidays. At least some overheads will be still there.

Asked them yesterday but couldn't get a straight answer. we have 2 kids in the creche and I don't think its fair for me to pay over 2K to them a month and I have to stay at home mind the kids. I appreciate they have their overheads but perhaps that's where the government support comes in. I am not sure...

Icyseanfitz · 11-03-2020 5:38pm

And what about all the kids with conditions and compromised immune systems? I work as an SNA with many students who are in danger from this, many members of staff in my school are in the 50-70 bracket, I myself have 2 elderly parents with health issues as well as a fiancé with underlying health issues whom I could infect after picking it up in school. This is fairly unprecedented stuff we're dealing with, but schools are a viral breeding ground and need to be closed to slow this down.

FishOnABike · 11-03-2020 5:42pm

tart29016 wrote: »

Asked them yesterday but couldn't get a straight answer. we have 2 kids in the creche and I don't think its fair for me to pay over 2K to them a month and I have to stay at home mind the kids. I appreciate they have their overheads but perhaps that's where the government support comes in. I am not sure...

It would be difficult for a creche to charge for a service which they were unable to offer.

Paying for a period when you don't bring your children to creche because you are on holiday or the creche closes to allow staff take statutory holidays and spreads 11 months fees over 12 months would be different.

meeeeh · 11-03-2020 5:45pm

tart29016 wrote: »

Asked them yesterday but couldn't get a straight answer. we have 2 kids in the creche and I don't think its fair for me to pay over 2K to them a month and I have to stay at home mind the kids. I appreciate they have their overheads but perhaps that's where the government support comes in. I am not sure...

It all depends also what employers are supposed to do. If government urge employers to pay wages in full or make up difference then I don't know where low margin businesses like creche are supposed to get money for it if there is nothing coming in.

S.G.M. · 11-03-2020 5:49pm

Noddy Nangle wrote:

Both my wife and I work and we have two primary school children. After school we make use of the nearby after school for minding our kids until we finish work. So if all of these places shut down what are we to do ? I canâ€™t exactly trll my employer that I canâ€™t work for the next two months as I have no one to mind the kids and secondly even if I did I wonâ€™t be entitled to any pay and we couldnâ€™t survive for a couple of months with no money and we wonâ€™t be entitled to the 305 sick pay. I personally think the government need to think this through before they act. Itâ€™s all well and fine for teachers and the public sector but what about the Joe soaps with a regular job in the private sector. To say Iâ€™m worried is an understatement !!!

The teachers aren't the ones making the decision so why being them into it?
The majority of teachers in my school are desperate for the schools to stay open as they want their students to do the best they can and trying to teach from home isn't ideal.

Millem · 11-03-2020 5:52pm

tart29016 wrote: »

Asked them yesterday but couldn't get a straight answer. we have 2 kids in the creche and I don't think its fair for me to pay over 2K to them a month and I have to stay at home mind the kids. I appreciate they have their overheads but perhaps that's where the government support comes in. I am not sure...

I bet they won’t be paying their staff if they close!

meeeeh · 11-03-2020 5:58pm

Millem wrote: »

I bet they won’t be paying their staff if they close!

You can bet whatever you want to but if creche go out of business quite a few people will be wondering what to do after the whole virus is over.

I'm not saying that full fees should be paid but those who feel entitled to full wages if they are not working should assume others want the same. A lot of businesses will struggle and childcare is one of the most underfunded sectors in Ireland and I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to get some income from somewhere.

AulWan · 11-03-2020 6:52pm

daheff wrote: »

My solution is to be rational and follow sensible guidelines to minimise the effects of this.

Closing schools now, while it will limit the spread now...won't eliminate the threat of the virus. Only by 100% quarantine of the country and stopping outsiders coming in from affected places will we stop the spread. We would need to lock EVERYTHING down for 2 weeks+duration of any infections (which looks to be approx 28 days). So 6 weeks assuming no additional infections.

If we don't stop flights/ferries coming in with people with possible infections then any school shut down will be irrelevant because it'll just start to spread again the moment any closure is lifted. What do we do then...shut everything down again for 6 weeks?

At the moment we have a negligible amount of the population with the virus. Any school that has a case should absolutely and without question shut for at least 14 days after the infection is spotted. All students and families should self isolate for this period.

Look at the school in Dublin which was shut around 2nd March because 1 student had tested positive. Have any other students contracted the virus?

Shutting schools/places of work are not a containment phase strategy. They are a mitigation phase strategy because of the disruption to everything that they cause. You forget that nurses and doctors have children too. Who should look after their kids because schools are shut? Or should those parents stay at home to look after their kids and not do their work? Every doctor and nurse you take out of circulation has a big knock on effect on the health system and capacity of the system.

If (and i hope its an if) we get more cases, and they aree community spread as opposed to the traceable cases we have now, then we should look at closing schools on a case by case basis...not blanket shutting. No point shutting schools in Ennis if there are no cases in Ennis. Anybody who is sending their kids to the school from outside the town and is from an infected area should not send their kids to school then.

absolutely. The biggest solution to this is for anybody with symptoms to self isolate and not get on a bloody plane and travel abroad.

and as a by the way, both myself and my wife can work from home if schools get shut down, so i won't be overly affected by a shut down if it comes to that. I'm more concerned about the damage that an unnecessary shut will do all around.

Daheff, I appreciate your well thought out answer, but whether the shut down comes next week, or in two or three weeks, there will be parents asking "what are we supposed to do with the kids?"

The answer is, stay home, do all you can to avoid becoming ill, and worry about the rest of it all when the crisis is past. Nothing is worth possibly losing your life for.

daheff · 11-03-2020 7:10pm

AulWan wrote: »

Daheff, I appreciate your well thought out answer, but whether the shut down comes next week, or in two or three weeks, there will be parents asking "what are we supposed to do with the kids?"

The answer is, stay home, do all you can to avoid becoming ill, and worry about the rest of it all when the crisis is past. Nothing is worth possibly losing your life for.

Absolutely.

If a shutdown happens (more likely when) it'll be when there are many more cases in the communities. Such a shut down would then not only benefit the kids out of school, but the parents too. Such a shut down would help cut huge number of cases back to the manageable levels we currently have.

Nobody wants this to get out of control, but i do think there is a little over the top reactions happening now....which may mean people are not as concerned when things actually go bad- when they should be reacting then.

To me a shut down of schools/workplaces etc is not warranted. Social distancing and sports events should be restricted to keep the situation contained.

But what do I know..I'm only some nut on the internet (like the rest of you :cool: )

salmocab · 11-03-2020 7:14pm

Millem wrote: »

I bet they won’t be paying their staff if they close!

The problem will be if they don’t plenty will leave the country and go home and when the crèches re open they will likely be down staff in an industry that is already short staffed so will have to turn kids away. It’s going to be a mess if it happens and will be difficult to get back to where it is now.

purifol0 · 11-03-2020 7:26pm

This thread is a sad reflection on the fact that Ireland is not a great country to get sick in if you are a private sector worker. Businesses have no obligation to pay sick pay no matter how well they're doing. Many will outright lie to the public on this matter claiming they cannot possibly pay. Not true for most medium to large outfits but of course we cannot know that since their books are off limits.

If we want Ireland to be a fairer place to the workers we must have an open book policy on private company finances - like Norway does.

Last week IBEC rocked up to the Dail and told the govt to use the citizens own taxes to pay for their own sick pay because big biz doesnt want to. Looks like they got their way.

salmocab · 11-03-2020 7:27pm

purifol0 wrote: »

This thread is a sad reflection on the fact that Ireland is not a great country to get sick in if you are a private sector worker. Businesses have no obligation to pay sick pay no matter how well they're doing. Many will outright lie to the public on this matter claiming they cannot possibly pay. Not true for most medium to large outfits but of course we cannot know that since their books are off limits.

If we want Ireland to be a fairer place to the workers we must have an open book policy on private company finances - like Norway does.

Last week IBEC rocked up to the Dail and told the govt to use the citizens own taxes to pay for their own sick pay because big biz doesnt want to. Looks like they got their way.

Thread isn’t really to do with sick pay though

S.G.M. · 11-03-2020 7:32pm

daheff wrote:

To me a shut down of schools/workplaces etc is not warranted. Social distancing and sports events should be restricted to keep the situation contained.

I get where you're coming from but I'm a SNA in a big secondary school and I can see how the hygiene is non existent with so many kids. Can fully see how closures will help prevent spread massively.

Salary Negotiator · 11-03-2020 7:35pm

S.G.M. wrote: »

I get where you're coming from but I'm a SNA in a big secondary school and I can see how the hygiene is non existent with so many kids. Can fully see how closures will help prevent spread massively.

My girlfriend teaches in an ASD unit and some of her students aren’t properly toilet trained, there’d be no way to stop infecting or being infected by those students.

Closing the schools is inevitable, it’s really just about when is best to close them.

Closing Schools - What about working parents !!!

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