Closing Schools - What about working parents !!!

Noddy Nangle

Hi All

Both my wife and I work and we have two primary school children. After school we make use of the nearby after school for minding our kids until we finish work. So if all of these places shut down what are we to do ? I can’t exactly trll my employer that I can’t work for the next two months as I have no one to mind the kids and secondly even if I did I won’t be entitled to any pay and we couldn’t survive for a couple of months with no money and we won’t be entitled to the 305 sick pay. I personally think the government need to think this through before they act. It’s all well and fine for teachers and the public sector but what about the Joe soaps with a regular job in the private sector. To say I’m worried is an understatement !!!

ThewhiteJesus

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

Hi All

Both my wife and I work and we have two primary school children. After school we make use of the nearby after school for minding our kids until we finish work. So if all of these places shut down what are we to do ? I can’t exactly trll my employer that I can’t work for the next two months as I have no one to mind the kids and secondly even if I did I won’t be entitled to any pay and we couldn’t survive for a couple of months with no money and we won’t be entitled to the 305 sick pay. I personally think the government need to think this through before they act. It’s all well and fine for teachers and the public sector but what about the Joe soaps with a regular job in the private sector. To say I’m worried is an understatement !!!

Us joe soaps in the public sector have kids and bills too you know.Plus a lower average wage

Noddy Nangle

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Us joe soaps in the public sector have kids and bills too you know.Plus a lower average wage

I’m not starting an argument. We are not on big money either but reality is that you will get paid, I won’t. Even if you go sick for two months to look after the kids

glack

I think you have a fair reason for worry and as a teacher I don’t take your post personally in any way. But I genuinely think schools will close-for how long is anyone’s guess. This is going to put a huge strain on the whole country and creative solutions are needed. Children are the main germ spreaders in the population so keeping them together in large groups and small spaces will help this spread at rapid speed. At some point, this will have to be stopped meaning schools/crèches will close in my opinion. If I was you, I would be making alternative arrangements as soon as possible. Is there any way one of you could work from home? Or could you both work flexible time? So one is always home? Has your place of work any plans made?

marieholmfan

School is not a babysitter!

Mortgages are going to be suspended - if neither of you are on great money then you are probably better off with the €305 a week and no childcare.

Jim Root

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Us joe soaps in the public sector have kids and bills too you know.Plus a lower average wage

you will still get paid. what about freelance workers? zero contract hour workers?

deisedevil

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

Hi All

Both my wife and I work and we have two primary school children. After school we make use of the nearby after school for minding our kids until we finish work. So if all of these places shut down what are we to do ? I can’t exactly trll my employer that I can’t work for the next two months as I have no one to mind the kids and secondly even if I did I won’t be entitled to any pay and we couldn’t survive for a couple of months with no money and we won’t be entitled to the 305 sick pay. I personally think the government need to think this through before they act. It’s all well and fine for teachers and the public sector but what about the Joe soaps with a regular job in the private sector. To say I’m worried is an understatement !!!

These kind of decisions are made based on the bigger picture. Closing schools means less of a spread and hopefully less people dying. People's jobs come second to that. I'm not happy about it either and don't know how I'll manage but I am totally for it happening. I only wish they did more earlier.

The chan chan man

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Us joe soaps in the public sector have kids and bills too you know.Plus a lower average wage

You still get paid and can’t be fired. I work for myself. If I stop, the money stops coming in.

ThewhiteJesus

The chan chan man wrote: »

You still get paid and can’t be fired. I work for myself. If I stop, the money stops coming in.

this is an absolute myth that people somehow still believe

Zagreb Ebnem Zloty Diev

marieholmfan wrote: »

then you are probably better off with the €305 a week and no childcare.

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

we won’t be entitled to the 305 sick pay.

Did you even read the OP?

iamwhoiam

marieholmfan wrote: »

School is not a babysitter!

Mortgages are going to be suspended - if neither of you are on great money then you are probably better off with the €305 a week and no childcare.

You do know that the €305 is only for those diagnosed with the COVID 19 ? Its not for people staying at home to mind kids

SusieBlue

Drastic times call for drastic measures. We are walking into a national emergency and decisions like this aren't taken lightly.
If its any consolation - and I know it probably won't be - you'll be one of hundreds of thousands of people in the same position.
We're heading for another recession because of this and everyone's in the same boat.

iguana

Italy is saying that if necessary, the next step in their lockdown is to potentially order all non-essential businesses (medical, relevant research and food production and distribution) to shut down. What do you think happens to the private sector after that? When this is over how many businesses won't have even the remotest chance of recovery?

We either take proactive steps now, hard as they may be, to avoid us getting as bad as Italy. Or we end up in a far, far, far worse position in 15-20 days time. Schools will potentially be shut for far longer if we wait. And your employer could be ordered to stop work entirely for a couple of months. The odds of either of you having any job to go back to if we get that bad are far worse than if you have to make arrangements for you both to work part-time now.

AulWan

The rules are being relaxed to allow the €305 payment to be extended to self-employed people, and those without enough PRSI contributions.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0309/1121216-sick-pay-emergency-legislation/

Widdensushi

AulWan wrote: »

The rules are being relaxed to allow the €305 payment to be extended to self-employed people, and those without enough PRSI contributions.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0309/1121216-sick-pay-emergency-legislation/

If sick with the virus, not to mind their children because schools are closed

AulWan

What would you prefer? The virus to spread and people to die?

Because that is the other option.

The banks said they will work with anyone who has financial issues as a result of Corona.

Its ridiculous the schools aren't closed already.

Sleeper12

Noddy Nangle wrote:

Both my wife and I work and we have two primary school children. After school we make use of the nearby after school for minding our kids until we finish work. So if all of these places shut down what are we to do ? I can’t exactly trll my employer that I can’t work for the next two months as I have no one to mind the kids and secondly even if I did I won’t be entitled to any pay and we couldn’t survive for a couple of months with no money and we won’t be entitled to the 305 sick pay. I personally think the government need to think this through before they act. It’s all well and fine for teachers and the public sector but what about the Joe soaps with a regular job in the private sector. To say I’m worried is an understatement !!!

Schools are for education not for babysitting. I don't understand your issue?

Bullocks

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Schools are for education not for babysitting. I don't understand your issue?

You need to read the OP again so.

Bullocks

AulWan wrote: »

The banks said they will work with anyone who has financial issues as a result of Corona.

I wonder will they though. In a few months time if people can't seem to make up the payments from not taking in a wage. I wouldn't trust a banks word

Cordell

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Schools are for education not for babysitting. I don't understand your issue?

Not officially, but they are. If their kids are not at school their parents can't be at work, and this will affect us all when the economy collapses.
I'm fortunate enough to not be affected, I can work from home, but a lot of parents will be facing hard times on top of a very difficult situation.

AulWan

Death -versus- very difficult situation.

I know which I'd choose.

Cordell

Sure, if schools need to close then they need to close. But some relief must be provided to affected working parent.

AulWan

Cordell wrote: »

Sure, if schools need to close then they need to close. But some relief must be provided to affected working parent.

I agree, something will need to be done - I believe Italy has instructed their banks not to collect mortgage payments.

But not closing the schools just so people can keep collecting a pay cheque is not realistic.

They are saying we can expect numbers of new cases to double every second day... so 10 new infections yesterday, 20 more by tomorrow, 40 more by two days after that.

Its batten down the hatches and wait it out, time.

Thoie

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Schools are for education not for babysitting. I don't understand your issue?

Most people organise their lives and schedules around the fact that their children are in school from 9-3 or whatever every day during normal term time. Everyone is aware that there will be the odd occasion where a child has to stay home for a short period, and at those times, parental leave/grandparents/neighbours/friends are drafted in. It's generally manageable because it's the odd child here and there.

If every child in the country is at home, and the usual alternatives (child minders who take in 4 or 5 kids for an hour or two after school) aren't available, it will cause people problems. There aren't enough grandparents etc to go around, and the grandparents are more likely to be the vulnerable ones, so might want/need to limit contact anyway.

While everyone appreciates that closing schools may be necessary, it still places a strain on a lot of people who may need to take unpaid time off to cater for this.

SusieBlue

Cordell wrote: »

Sure, if schools need to close then they need to close. But some relief must be provided to affected working parent.

In theory I agree with you, but where is this money going to come from?
Our budget never accounted for a crisis like this. Small businesses are going to go under and jobs are going to be lost. If they aren't making money, they can't afford to keep paying staff, the cashflow just isn't there.
There are going to be a lot of people financially struggling this year.

jlm29

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

this is an absolute myth that people somehow still believe

Crazy. I’m a public sector worker. As it happens, I’m on mat leave, but if I wasn’t, I’d be taking unpaid parental leave as necessary. I wouldn’t just be getting paid for staying at home.

Sleeper12

Bullocks wrote:

You need to read the OP again so.

I read the OP. If the schools close down everyone will need someone to mind their kids. Even if the after school place stayed open he'd have no one to mind the kids during school hours. This is my point. Schools aren't a babysitting service

killbillvol2

AulWan wrote: »

They are saying we can expect numbers of new cases to double every second day... so 10 new infections yesterday, 20 more by tomorrow, 40 more by two days after that. .

Who are they? What a crock of BS.

That would be over 600,000 new infections per day in just over a month. Go away with your stupid non facts.

AulWan

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Who are they? What a crock of BS.

That would be over 600,000 new infections per day in just over a month. Go away with your stupid non facts.

Those were the numbers estimated at HSE meeting yesterday that a family member (health care professional) attended IF this is not contained.

Now you see the urgency to stop this thing in its tracks.

killbillvol2

AulWan wrote: »

Those were the numbers estimated at HSE meeting yesterday that a family member (health care professional) attended IF this is not contained.

Now you see the urgency to stop this thing in its tracks.

So health care professionals met yesterday and said that the number of infections would double every two days, which would involve over 600,000 new infections PER DAY in just over a month.

I'm going to guess that your family member either didn't grasp the figures or, more likely, that you don't.

AulWan

killbillvol2 wrote: »

So health care professionals met yesterday and said that the number of infections would double every two days, which would involve over 600,000 new infections PER DAY in just over a month.

I'm going to guess that your family member either didn't grasp the figures or, more likely, that you don't.

They said the number of new infections would double per day.

So, there were ten NEW infections yesterday. Total cases 36

Expect 20 new infections by tomorrow. Total cases 56

Expect 40 new infections by Saturday. Total cases 96

And so on.

Idbatterim

closing the schools should be a last resort, not the first resort it usually is :rolleyes:

Bullocks

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I read the OP. If the schools close down everyone will need someone to mind their kids. Even if the after school place stayed open he'd have no one to mind the kids during school hours. This is my point. Schools aren't a babysitting service

He's not saying they are babysitting services. No one is.
But kids go there 5 days a week and that's how a lot of lives are organised. No one planned for school closures in the middle of terms so therefore have no alternative childminders in place.
I wouldn't like to be looking towards that situation with bills to be paid

killbillvol2

AulWan wrote: »

They said the number of new infections would double per day.

So, there were ten NEW infections yesterday. Total cases 36

Expect 20 new infections by tomorrow. Total cases 56

Expect 40 new infections by Saturday. Total cases 96

And so on.

You really don't grasp this, do you?

'And so on' takes you to 655,360 new infections PER DAY in a month's time.

Icyseanfitz

Idbatterim wrote: »

closing the schools should be a last resort, not the first resort it usually is :rolleyes:

Last resort? What wait for when everyone is all ready infected by which time closing schools will make no difference at all as people will be dying and the health service will be non existent.

jlm29

Idbatterim wrote: »

closing the schools should be a last resort, not the first resort it usually is :rolleyes:

I interested to know what measures you think should come before school closures?

Spanish Eyes

If Secondary Schools close there has to be a Lugs Brannigan cohort with a few water pistols and those ear splitting devices so that teens just go home if caught in large groups.

You can just see it. Masses of them on DART to Howth with crates of cans on a jolly every day.

Won't someone think of the elderly and at risk people....

On the other hand, if they are at home using online resources with the teacher looking at them, they'd have to be home, or at least get up out of the leaba for the schoolday.

Trying to be lighthearted about a big change to our lives coming down the tracks.

I appreciate that younger kids will need minding somehow. It's a difficult one.

irishgrover

we are looking at a situation where it is probable that a couple of million people will get this virus which will result in the death of 50,000 to 100,000 people (and that seems to be very conservative). Most of the people that will die are older people and people of all ages with existing issues (cancer, asthma, hearth issues etc)
This is going to put an incredible strain on our society, on every single part of our society, the economy, healthcare, mental health etc etc.
Too many people reading this will end us loosing loved ones, be they old or sick.

Anything that can be done to slow this down should be done. Slowing the growth should increase our ability to prepare better. In addition the slower it grows the closer we will be to a resolution and the less people will die in the meantime.

Our ability to holiday is gone, our ability to be fiscally solvent is as risk. However my main concern is how to I prevent my children from getting this and if/when they get it how I prevent them from passing it on.
So not being able to work is very very problematic. However not as problematic as my child fatally infecting my parent or some random compromised member of society.

AulWan

killbillvol2 wrote: »

You really don't grasp this, do you?

'And so on' takes you to 655,360 new infections PER DAY in a month's time.

I honestly don't know what your problem is. They gave this figure as an example of how rapidly it can spread. Thats what happens with pandemics.

The mass spread of this infection here is highly possible if steps are not taken to contain it.

RTE have already published that its possible up to 1.9 million here could be infected, another figure given was 60% of the population.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0308/1120943-covid-19/

Earlier, the Health Service Executive said that it cannot dispute projections that 1.9 million people in the Republic of Ireland may fall ill with coronavirus.

iguana

killbillvol2 wrote: »

So health care professionals met yesterday and said that the number of infections would double every two days, which would involve over 600,000 new infections PER DAY in just over a month.

I'm going to guess that your family member either didn't grasp the figures or, more likely, that you don't.

Our exponential rate, since the first case was identified is currently averaging at slightly less than a two day doubling time, which is disastrous. So presumably they were working off figures for if this trend continues. And we truly are fuçked if we don't stop it. The only way to arrest the trend is with serious social distancing measures, which will almost certainly include shutting schools.

Sleeper12

Bullocks wrote: »

He's not saying they are babysitting services. No one is.
But kids go there 5 days a week and that's how a lot of lives are organised. No one planned for school closures in the middle of terms so therefore have no alternative childminders in place.
I wouldn't like to be looking towards that situation with bills to be paid

So you need a babysitting service to replace the roll of the school. Can you get my drift here? Because parents have become reliant on schools to mind their kids during certain hours doesn't mean that , that's the schools function. Schools can teach via Skype if needs be.


The real elephant in the room is the schools will be closed to stop the virus from spreading BUT the vast majority of the kids no longer in school wont be isolating. They will be going out to play & older kids hanging out at shopping centers.

Cordell

killbillvol2 wrote: »

So health care professionals met yesterday and said that the number of infections would double every two days, which would involve over 600,000 new infections PER DAY in just over a month.

I'm going to guess that your family member either didn't grasp the figures or, more likely, that you don't.

Actually that is precisely how an exponential rate works. Obviously it will not reach that number (they never said that number, did they?) as we will be running out of people but up to a certain point this is how it is.

Bullocks

Sleeper12 wrote: »

So you need a babysitting service to replace the roll of the school. Can you get my drift here? Because parents have become reliant on schools to mind their kids during certain hours doesn't mean that , that's the schools function. Schools can teach via Skype if needs be.


The real elephant in the room is the schools will be closed to stop the virus from spreading BUT the vast majority of the kids no longer in school wont be isolating. They will be going out to play & older kids hanging out at shopping centers.

So should all parents have a back up childminder for when the schools their kids go to year in and year out suddenly close? This hasn't happened before. People don't use schools as babysitters.
What is your solution to working parents that can't afford to stop working but will have to?
To me it feels like you're saying feck those parents sure they have just been using the school as a babysitter all along they'll just have to get real now

killbillvol2

Cordell wrote: »

Actually that is precisely how an exponential rate works. Obviously it will not reach that number (they never said that number, did they?) as we will be running out of people but up to a certain point this is how it is.

I know how an exponential rate works - that's how I calculated the number. My problem is, and I'm out after this, that a group of health professionals allegedly sat in a room and stated that cases would double every two days without doing the maths past about day 3.

Anyway, I'm off to self isolate and watch Cheltenham.

AulWan

Bullocks wrote: »

So should all parents have a back up childminder for when the schools their kids go to year in and year out suddenly close? This hasn't happened before. People don't use schools as babysitters.
What is your solution to working parents that can't afford to stop working but will have to?
To me it feels like you're saying feck those parents sure they have just been using the school as a babysitter all along they'll just have to get real now

Bullocks, you're right, this hasn't happened in living memory (pandemics have happened before) but this is an extraordinary situation the country is facing into.

We don't know exactly how its going to pan out over the next few weeks, but the State has already committed 3.5 billion towards this and there will have to be some contingency plan made for workers who have to stay at home.

It may be an extension of the Supplementary Welfare Allowance scheme, but not containing the virus is not an option.

Sit tight.

Sleeper12

Bullocks wrote: »

So should all parents have a back up childminder for when the schools their kids go to year in and year out suddenly close? This hasn't happened before. People don't use schools as babysitters.
What is your solution to working parents that can't afford to stop working but will have to?
To me it feels like you're saying feck those parents sure they have just been using the school as a babysitter all along they'll just have to get real now

Well yes of course. Otherwise you'll end up sending in sick kids just because you haven't someone to mind your child. Your child will be one of those poor unfortunate kids with the perfect attendance records that infected all the other kids throughout the year.



If you don't have grandparents, neighbors or friends to mind your child then you have to take time off work. It's not rocket science

Cordell

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I know how an exponential rate works - that's how I calculated the number. My problem is, and I'm out after this, that a group of health professionals allegedly sat in a room and stated that cases would double every two days without doing the maths past about day 3.

Anyway, I'm off to self isolate and watch Cheltenham.

1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192
We're good for 2 weeks.
Also, this may suggest we're severely underdiagnosing it.

Salary Negotiator

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I know how an exponential rate works - that's how I calculated the number. My problem is, and I'm out after this, that a group of health professionals allegedly sat in a room and stated that cases would double every two days without doing the maths past about day 3.

Anyway, I'm off to self isolate and watch Cheltenham.

They more than likely said could double, not would double.

jlm29

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Well yes of course. Otherwise you'll end up sending in sick kids just because you haven't someone to mind your child. Your child will be one of those poor unfortunate kids with the perfect attendance records that infected all the other kids throughout the year.



If you don't have grandparents, neighbors or friends to mind your child then you have to take time off work. It's not rocket science

There is a bit of a difference between one person having to take a day or two off work if their child is sick, and thousands of people having to take an undetermined number of weeks off work in a case like this.
Remember also that lots of healthcare workers have kids, and the health service is in enough trouble as it is, without thousands of people announcing they can’t work. I’m not saying you’re wrong, people do need to make arrangements, but it is a worry for a lot of people, and not an unreasonable one

Cordell

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

They more than likely said could double, not would double.

No one can say for sure, but this it's what have been observed in the other affected places, an exponential rate of 2.something.
Of course, here it may be better, or it may be worse, it depends on a lot of factors. For example, things like one-of housing and bad public transport which are generally perceived as negative may actually help us this time

Sleeper12

jlm29 wrote:

There is a bit of a difference between one person having to take a day or two off work if their child is sick, and thousands of people having to take an undetermined number of weeks off work in a case like this. Remember also that lots of healthcare workers have kids, and the health service is in enough trouble as it is, without thousands of people announcing they can’t work. I’m not saying you’re wrong, people do need to make arrangements, but it is a worry for a lot of people, and not an unreasonable one

In most cases it should be easier to get someone to mind your kids when every school closes. You buddy up with another parent or two or three parents & take turns in minding each others children. You take turns in taking time off work. Now is the time to make these arrangements & not wait until the school closes