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If all cyclists waited at the red light...

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    #122
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,215 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Where's that from?

    EDIT: the whole court rigmarole was the rationale for fixed-charge notices. Cyclists were rarely punished, because the courts kept looking at the Gardaí who brought cycling offences to court as time wasters.

    Facebook: a reply to this post: "Got this on way home after baby Sitting in Donnycarney in 1962, Got Fined one Shilling"

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/dublindown/


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    #123
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    The law regarding the red light for cyclists should be amended. It is total nonsense for a cyclist to wait at a red light, knowing that there is no traffic coming. This is why the law is flouted, it is a ridiculous law, and is not respected because of this.
    BTW, I'm a motorist, haven't cycled for 40 years!


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    #124
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Facebook: a reply to this post: "Got this on way home after baby Sitting in Donnycarney in 1962, Got Fined one Shilling"

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/dublindown/

    Funny it mentions spoke reflectors. I don't think they've ever been mandatory.


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    #125
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    And even then most comments are about how ridiculous the 30k speed limit is!

    And there is the predictable "it's like shooting fish in a barrel" moan too, when it comes to speeding fines.

    I've never understood that one. Speed limit signs are plentiful, as are signs that indicate you are approaching a speed camera area. Shooting fish in a barrel? If the fish were to choose to place themselves in the barrel, provide guns to the people looking in, paint bullseyes on their own chests, and swim around waving "SHOOT ME!" banners, then yes, it's exactly like shooting fish in a barrel. But, you know, those fish would have deserved it, to be honest.


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    #126
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    Re bells, as I discovered while casually looking for a bell for my daughter's bike recently, it's a niche cycling rabbit hole that I never even knew existed.

    To those in the know, asking them for "a bell" is as ludicrous as walking into a bike shop and asking for "a bike", or walking into a car dealership and saying "I'd like a car. What type? Oh, a blue one please".


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    #127
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    xsyojhgt43f8z5 wrote: »
    The law regarding the red light for cyclists should be amended. It is total nonsense for a cyclist to wait at a red light, knowing that there is no traffic coming. This is why the law is flouted, it is a ridiculous law, and is not respected because of this.
    BTW, I'm a motorist, haven't cycled for 40 years!

    I'm afraid that various skills have been lost to us cyclists since your day, omnipotence being one.

    I'd mourn the loss of it, but I just don't know how to.


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    #128
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    doozerie wrote:
    I'm afraid that various skills have been lost to us cyclists since your day, omnipotence being one.


    Cyclists shouldn't be cycling if they can't observe around them.


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    #129
    stevek93
    Registered Users Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭stevek93


    xsyojhgt43f8z5 wrote: »
    The law regarding the red light for cyclists should be amended. It is total nonsense for a cyclist to wait at a red light, knowing that there is no traffic coming. This is why the law is flouted, it is a ridiculous law, and is not respected because of this.
    BTW, I'm a motorist, haven't cycled for 40 years!

    Complete hogwash a cyclist must wait a red light regardless of what you may think, the rules of the road are there to keep you safe. You don't cycle or haven't in 40 years I cycle 80km a week I have also noticed cars will respect you a lot more when you abide by the rules of the road. It makes for more safe and comfortable environment for each road user.


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    #130
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,330 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    stevek93 wrote: »
    I have also noticed cars will respect you a lot more when you abide by the rules of the road.
    how do you detect respect from a car?


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    #131
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    stevek93 wrote: »
    I have also noticed cars will respect you a lot more when you abide by the rules of the road.

    There is a certain minority of drivers who get infuriated by you following the rules on a bike if it delays them in some way. Such as waiting at a left-turn traffic light they want to break.


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    #132
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Why should you have to remain at a red light when you can clearly see there's no traffic coming?

    The law is ignored because it doesn't make sense.


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    #133
    DavyD_83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭DavyD_83


    When did civil disobedience stop being a valid form of protest? You can obey bad laws and lobby for a long as you want.alaw becoming obsolete vacate everybody ignored it and agrees it is nonsense of far more likely to actually bring about change in the rules, or at least a semi - formal agreement that it can be ignored.


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    #134
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,215 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Funny it mentions spoke reflectors. I don't think they've ever been mandatory.

    It's the equivalent of hi viz jackets today. Not a legal requirement, but Don't wear one (even though your club kit has reflective elements and is bright red!) and you are not doing enough to make yourself visible!


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    #135
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,215 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    xsyojhgt43f8z5 wrote: »
    The law regarding the red light for cyclists should be amended. It is total nonsense for a cyclist to wait at a red light, knowing that there is no traffic coming. This is why the law is flouted, it is a ridiculous law, and is not respected because of this.
    BTW, I'm a motorist, haven't cycled for 40 years!

    But the problem is, if all cyclists thought like that, we have to stop at every GREEN light, in case "the brother" was cycling home in the opposite direction! :D


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    #136
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,009 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Are there threads on Motors bemoaning the fact that nobody sticks to the speed limit?


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    #137
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Baron de Charlus wrote: »
    The thing about ignoring the law and instead adopting your own interpretation of what's "dangerous" and what's "safe", is that it's entirely subjective.
    Lots of legal things are completely unsafe also, like stopping in an asl when a hgv has you in the drivers blind spot, or using a cycle lane on the left, like the rsa say you must do when you're turning right, or using a cycle lane that will end badly and dangerously


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    #138
    stevek93
    Registered Users Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭stevek93


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    how do you detect respect from a car?

    Yes when you follow the rules of the road and not act the maggot traffic will gve way to you or at least in my case what I have noticed if you do something reckless it just gives everyone a problem including yourself why we have this big taboo about cyclist.


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    #139
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,215 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    doozerie wrote: »
    And there is the predictable "it's like shooting fish in a barrel" moan too, when it comes to speeding fines.

    I've never understood that one. Speed limit signs are plentiful, as are signs that indicate you are approaching a speed camera area. Shooting fish in a barrel? If the fish were to choose to place themselves in the barrel, provide guns to the people looking in, paint bullseyes on their own chests, and swim around waving "SHOOT ME!" banners, then yes, it's exactly like shooting fish in a barrel. But, you know, those fish would have deserved it, to be honest.

    Took a few comments but..regular as clockwork!

    http://www.thejournal.ie/driver-speeding-4175590-Aug2018/


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    #140
    Get Real
    Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭Get Real


    I was hit by a cyclist who broke a red light. I was crossing at a green man.

    He didn't mean to do it, he had probably broke reds a thousand times, as I had in the past and as many cyclists do.

    My skull was cracked open, and still have a bald patch from it. If it was a motor that hit me, his insurance would have covered it. Alas, no insurance. Luckily I've my own and I ticked it off as an accident, one of those things that isn't ideal, but just happens. No hard feelings.

    However if that was my grandfather/someone frail, pretty sure at the speed it took place, it could have been deadly serious.

    I view it that all cyclists(including me, the handful of times I cycle) should ask "if this was a motorbike, would I be doing (insert action here). Generally, the answer is always " no".

    You could hit someone/hit into another car yourself at a fair speed that would do damage. Doesn't matter if the way ahead is clear, in that case would you just drive a motorbike through reds all the time because you deemed it safe enough to proceed ahead? If you're not willing to accept yourself as part of road traffic, don't cycle.


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    #141
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    DavyD_83 wrote: »
    When did civil disobedience stop being a valid form of protest? You can obey bad laws and lobby for a long as you want.alaw becoming obsolete vacate everybody ignored it and agrees it is nonsense of far more likely to actually bring about change in the rules, or at least a semi - formal agreement that it can be ignored.

    I think with civil disobedience you want to be caught breaking the law and even punished to highlight its injustice. Red-light jumpers, though some might think the law unjust, by and large just want to keep going.


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    #142
    tomfoolery60
    Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭tomfoolery60


    stevek93 wrote: »
    I don't understand it what time do you save by taking these risk? Is your life really worth an extra 3 minutes saved during your journey? Or do they not notice the lights in good time?

    It's not really that simple - the roads and light sequences are designed for cars and trucks. If you need to make a right turn up at the next junction it is often impossible to do so safely without getting ahead of the aggressively accelerating traffic by breaking a light (safely obviously).

    I will always take the best option for my safety as I don't have a box of steel surrounding me - if that involves breaking a light is that really so hard to understand? It's harder to understand the "stickler for the rules" cyclists imo - those waiting doggedly before the white line beside a left turning truck that had advanced beyond it for example. This is a situation when to stick to letter of the law is to take a massive risk.

    Dublin cycling has a piece some might find illuminating:


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    #143
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    tomfoolery60 wrote: »
    It's not really that simple - the roads and light sequences are designed for cars and trucks. If you need to make a right turn up at the next junction it is often impossible to do so safely without getting ahead of the aggressively accelerating traffic by breaking a light (safely obviously).

    Because you can't move to the right through moving traffic?
    If you're already stopped at the lights, why not take the position in the right at that junction?
    tomfoolery60 wrote: »
    those waiting doggedly before the white line beside a left turning truck that had advanced beyond it for example.

    I'd completely understand someone getting out of the way in that situation.
    It seems to come up a lot more in this kind of discussion than in real life though.


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    #144
    jacob2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭jacob2


    going through red lights while there on there phones or texting how could u stop a bike if your not looking ahead or a filter light to take that right turn wen bikes keep going or some cyclists coming down the opposite side of the road forgetting that we drive on the left in this country


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    #145
    work
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭work


    mloc123 wrote: »
    seamus wrote: »
    Dunno about anyone else, but I see this all the time at rush hour.

    Same, cycle along the grand canal any morning and each traffic light is packed with groups of cyclists stopped (including those that insist on jumping to the top despite being so slow :rolleyes:)
    OMG this must be the No1 annoying any cyclist can do. Where are their manners. If you skip you better at least try to move your fat ass when the light goes green. If you did that in a car you'dprobably be followed home and beaten. Thankfully those that do it are minority .


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    #146
    work
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭work


    sorry posted by mistake twice


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    #147
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,954 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    tomfoolery60 wrote: »
    If you need to make a right turn up at the next junction it is often impossible to do so safely without getting ahead of the aggressively accelerating traffic by breaking a light (safely obviously).....
    I've never felt the need to break a red light when making a right turn. If for some reason I can't manage it under normal circumstances, I stay on the left and use the pedestrian crossing (if there is one) to get across.

    It's actually a lot easier to make a right turn from a junction controller by traffic lights than to get into the right lane of a fast moving dual carriageway to make the third exit off a roundabout.


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    #148
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,387 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    jacob2 wrote: »
    going through red lights while there on there phones or texting how could u stop a bike if your not looking ahead or a filter light to take that right turn wen bikes keep going or some cyclists coming down the opposite side of the road forgetting that we drive on the left in this country


    Did you find it hard to find the full stops or other punctuation marks on the keyboard while you were driving?

    work wrote: »
    OMG this must be the No1 annoying any cyclist can do. Where are their manners. If you skip you better at least try to move your fat ass when the light goes green. If you did that in a car you'dprobably be followed home and beaten. Thankfully those that do it are minority .
    If I have to pass them a 2nd time, I usually ask them to 'please don't make me pass you out a 3rd time'. Behaviour will never change if you just ignore it.


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    #149
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Lumen wrote: »
    Are there threads on Motors bemoaning the fact that nobody sticks to the speed limit?

    Yeah looks this one attracted a bit of attention

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057488458/1/#post96884029


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    #150
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Lumen wrote: »
    Are there threads on Motors bemoaning the fact that nobody sticks to the speed limit?


    "Guys, there are 150,000 uninsured drivers in Ireland. We really have to get our act together. Nobody will treat us with any respect, and deservedly so, unless we stop this."


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    #151
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    If I have to pass them a 2nd time, I usually ask them to 'please don't make me pass you out a 3rd time'. Behaviour will never change if you just ignore it.

    I asked a teenager to stop passing me at the lights, as he was ambling between lights, and it was a really narrow road. So he passed me again,breaking the lights again, turned into a housing estate and danced around singing "I won! I won!"

    So, to cut a long story short, I've never tried that again.


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