Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

thomasj · 20-01-2019 10:45pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Maybe they merged it with the 76a between Blanch and Tallaght, the 75 between Talllaght and DL and the 45a between DL and Kilmacanogue

Haha no pressure on the driver!

john boye · 21-01-2019 12:12am

With the 18 and 76 moving to GAI on the same day and given how close their Palmerstown and Chapelizod termini are, should we expect them to be interworked also? Are any of their routes not interworked?

Stephen15 · 21-01-2019 12:25am

john boye wrote: »

With the 18 and 76 moving to GAI on the same day and given how close their Palmerstown and Chapelizod termini are, should we expect them to be interworked also? Are any of their routes not interworked?

Perhaps I wouldn't be surprised if they extended the 18 across the M50 to Liffey Valley I think it would make sense anyway.

Losty Dublin · 21-01-2019 12:31am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Maybe they merged it with the 76a between Blanch and Tallaght, the 75 between Tallaght and DL and the 45a between DL and Kilmacanogue

75+76A+45A+17+17A=230

It just doesn't add it, does it?

Giblet · 21-01-2019 9:09am

Farce today for the 114. Nothing showed up, timetables showing cancelled. Lots of very cold people

Technocentral · 21-01-2019 9:33am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Technocentral wrote: »

Got the 220 from Ballymun to Finglas for first time today, its now a single decker and frequency has gone up from once every hour and a half to once every hour, fantastic! Go Ahead are shaking things up why the hell didn't DB do this?

DB didn't have the resources up until now. The NTA are adding 125 buses to the network and many DB routes have seen an increase in service such as the 4, 13, 14, 15 and 16 and there have been a number of new routes that have already been added to the network or will be added such as the 40e, 66e, 155 and 175. It's 25% increase in Dublin city bus services.

Whatever the reason, private sector showing up leads to better services for the public.

cherryghost · 21-01-2019 9:35am

Giblet wrote: »

Farce today for the 114. Nothing showed up, timetables showing cancelled. Lots of very cold people

People complaining on Twitter also.

punisher5112 · 21-01-2019 9:38am

Technocentral wrote: »

Whatever the reason, private sector showing up leads to better services for the public.

It's just perfect timing.

The nta were holding out till each change to add more services.

It makes the new player look great.

stephenjmcd · 21-01-2019 10:00am

Looking on Twitter this morning and it seems like a complete mess yet again

punisher5112 · 21-01-2019 10:11am

You would think they would have say 2 spare buses for exactly that reason if there are issues.

They have had long enough and had sh1te loads of buses going around and taking up space off dB.

CPTM · 21-01-2019 10:58am

A lot of very cold people along the 17 route too. Realtime information on the TFI journey planner app completely wrong and unreliable. 4 ghost buses (no shows) before finally one arrived.

Technocentral · 21-01-2019 11:16am

CPTM wrote: »

A lot of very cold people along the 17 route too. Realtime information on the TFI journey planner app completely wrong and unreliable. 4 ghost buses (no shows) before finally one arrived.

Anyone know how real time works so? Does it track the bus?

spoonerhead · 21-01-2019 11:18am

Serious teething problems on the 17, waited for the 9:20 which never showed then finally got the 9:40 Rialto bus. By the time we got to Crumlin there was 2 buses at once, now 2 17s side by side in the other direction. Ghost buses the trend of the morning....

markpb · 21-01-2019 12:07pm

Technocentral wrote: »

Anyone know how real time works so? Does it track the bus?

In the time leading up to the buses departure from the starting point, it uses the timetable and historical journey times as the source of data. For example, if it normally takes 10 minutes to get from the start to your bus stop and the next bus is due to leave at 11:10, it'll show 11:20 as the estimated arrival time. Once the bus has left the starting point, it'll use the live location and historical data to estimate how long it will take the bus to get to your location.

Where this all falls down is that the bus may not be ready to take up duty at the starting location but, unless someone overrides it, the system won't know that the bus will be late and continue to show it having a normal departure time. This problem can only be fixed by proactive management by the two bus operators. They should know that the bus is running late or the driver didn't make it on time and they should be updating the data.

Hurrache · 21-01-2019 12:28pm

Doesn't look like a good start anyway for Go-Ahead based on the issues people are raising with their Twitter support team.

Giblet · 21-01-2019 12:58pm

Hurrache wrote: »

Doesn't look like a good start anyway for Go-Ahead based on the issues people are raising with their Twitter support team.

Well all 114 só far have been cancelled. Complete joke

punisher5112 · 21-01-2019 12:59pm

Giblet wrote: »

Well all 114 só far have been cancelled. Complete joke

Are you serious, none have ran..... Wow now that's shocking.

CramCycle · 21-01-2019 1:57pm

CPTM wrote: »

A lot of very cold people along the 17 route too. Realtime information on the TFI journey planner app completely wrong and unreliable. 4 ghost buses (no shows) before finally one arrived.

That is hardly anything new though, the 17 on quiet days seemed to skip every second timetabled run for sh1ts and giggles. When I moved to Churchtown years ago, it took a week to realise that showing up half an hour early and waiting for 30 minutes after, I could still cover the hours walk on the route and quite possibly never see the 17 before I got to where I wanted to go.

cherryghost · 21-01-2019 2:15pm

CramCycle wrote: »

That is hardly anything new though, the 17 on quiet days seemed to skip every second timetabled run for sh1ts and giggles. When I moved to Churchtown years ago, it took a week to realise that showing up half an hour early and waiting for 30 minutes after, I could still cover the hours walk on the route and quite possibly never see the 17 before I got to where I wanted to go.

New drivers, new timetable, zero excuse. It leaves a truly awful impression on many who expected better service for Day 0 launch

CramCycle · 21-01-2019 2:22pm

cherryghost wrote: »

New drivers, new timetable, zero excuse. It leaves a truly awful impression on many who expected better service for Day 0 launch

100%, there was no excuse for it before this either though. The 17 has been and now looks like it always will be a bus that drivers locals back to using cars as no one trusts it.

There are issues with pinch points but most of them seem to be improved over the past 15years along large sections of the route, I think DB just got so used to not running it that they forgot to start when it was more viable. Not sure GAI have any excuses, as you said, new operator, you'd expect best foot forward.

ITV2 · 21-01-2019 2:36pm

spotted a 17 with no destination displayed, no lights on and a small piece of paper with 17 stuck in the dash. The 220 arrived into DCU changed onto route 104 and drove off with no passengers ! Not a great start.

p_haugh · 21-01-2019 3:06pm

ITV2 wrote: »

spotted a 17 with no destination displayed, no lights on and a small piece of paper with 17 stuck in the dash. The 220 arrived into DCU changed onto route 104 and drove off with no passengers ! Not a great start.

Well the 220 and 104 are run off the same board just like the 17 and 114 are, hence why it changed routes at DCU.

p_haugh · 21-01-2019 3:08pm

CramCycle wrote: »

That is hardly anything new though, the 17 on quiet days seemed to skip every second timetabled run for sh1ts and giggles. When I moved to Churchtown years ago, it took a week to realise that showing up half an hour early and waiting for 30 minutes after, I could still cover the hours walk on the route and quite possibly never see the 17 before I got to where I wanted to go.

Even on Saturday, the day before Go-Ahead took over, one of the 17s just dropped off the timetable, leaving me to wait for the next one in 40 minutes.

StreetLight · 21-01-2019 3:52pm

Dublin Bus are having their own problems with the latest changeover. The 26 is still showing on Real Time as going to Palmerstown instead of Liffey Valley and the 66E is not showing up at all.

sharper · 21-01-2019 4:15pm

StreetLight wrote: »

Dublin Bus are having their own problems with the latest changeover. The 26 is still showing on Real Time as going to Palmerstown instead of Liffey Valley and the 66E is not showing up at all.

The 07:00 66 didn't show up at all and the 07:10 66x turned into a 26 half way through the journey for some reason.

All the real time information is still on the old timetables.

Stephen15 · 21-01-2019 5:44pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

They have had long enough and had sh1te loads of buses going around and taking up space off dB.

So if DB won tender the extra 125 buses on the road wouldn't be taking space off the rest the DB routes. Don't get me wrong though the NTA were stupid pushing the 75 and 175 through Dundrum Luas. They're buses are hardly taking space off DB if their carrying passengers meaning they are obviously useful to someone.

dfx- · 21-01-2019 5:46pm

cherryghost wrote: »

New drivers, new timetable, zero excuse. It leaves a truly awful impression on many who expected better service for Day 0 launch

The thing is it has happened time and time again for each batch introduced so far and it will happen again for the 18/76.

I don't know why they are so underprepared repeatedly. They're not learning from any of it. They've had long enough.

Stephen15 · 21-01-2019 5:52pm

cherryghost wrote: »

New drivers, new timetable, zero excuse. It leaves a truly awful impression on many who expected better service for Day 0 launch

There have been teething problems on almost every route they've taken over so far so it's hardly a surprise. The issues with the DL routes seem to be more or less sorted now since they've revised the timetables. Maybe the routes they've already taken over might end up getting a revised timetable which will improve them. The running time on the 114 seems to be very tight for example.

TallGlass · 21-01-2019 6:20pm

Can't say I am surprised at all. New Drivers, sink or swim attitude been adopted by looks of things. It's what I expected. Exactly why I didn't apply and the low wage to boot. Can't imagine the drivers be best impressed either.

zanardi · 21-01-2019 6:46pm

p_haugh wrote: »

Well the 220 and 104 are run off the same board just like the 17 and 114 are, hence why it changed routes at DCU.

Ah, that makes sense. It's confusing though as we all went to the arriving 104 which never opened it's doors, while the 220 parked ahead of it changed to a 104 and drove off. We'll learn.

Stephen15 · 21-01-2019 7:03pm

dfx- wrote: »

I don't know why they are so underprepared repeatedly. They're not learning from any of it. They've had long enough.

It appears DB are having similar issues today with the 26 and the 66/a/b/e/x today. Whenever there's changes to services there's generally some short term issues we've had it with Luas CC, Network Direct and 10 minute Darts.

Go-Ahead have struggled somewhat due to completely unrealistic running times set by the NTA the 75 at peak times being a prime example this appears to now be rectified. Nothing Go-Ahead could do about the fact some their drivers are inexpierenced only so much training can compensate for real life experience.

spoonerhead · 21-01-2019 8:18pm

No 17 bus at 7:05 from Blackrock as per timetable, the headache from this today has made up my mind. Another car on the road from tomorrow....

r93kaey5p2izun · 21-01-2019 8:28pm

Well I'm getting a taxi to work now a couple of days a week temporarily due to first 239 now being too late, and will just drop that work altogether once reasonable notice is served. Client not happy but no viable alternative. I did try to get the 239 on Sunday to try out the improved part of the service but the bus was broken down at the stop I went to. The driver seemed embarrassed. Not a good start on day 1.

DUBLINBUSGUY · 21-01-2019 8:31pm

The 161's were also cancelled this evening. I boarded the 17:25 in Dundrum (12111) and just after the Merry Ploughboy Pub a car came flying down the other way with the high beams blinding us taking off the mirror. Called the control and a maintenance van was sent out from the Ballymount depot at around 18:15 (the time we were supposed to be leaving Rockbrook at) and came to us, stranded at the last stop up in Rockbrook. He replaced the mirror and we were ready to go by around 7. Bear in mind we were supposed to have left Dundrum at 18:55 on the last 161 up to Rockbrook before then going OOS to the depot. So, the buses were cancelled and the driver gave me a lift down to the main road, Taylors Lane.

punisher5112 · 21-01-2019 8:38pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

So if DB won tender the extra 125 buses on the road wouldn't be taking space off the rest the DB routes. Don't get me wrong though the NTA were stupid pushing the 75 and 175 through Dundrum Luas. They're buses are hardly taking space off DB if their carrying passengers meaning they are obviously useful to someone.

You have taken what I said completely wrong.

The routes are gone I get that, I get dB are getting extra buses.... I do know this I work there as you are well aware as I have never hidden the fact.

What I meant by taking space is at bus stops, roads taken over by the amount of them running together training etc.

They could well have had extra buses on stand by to get it up and running right this morning but they didn't do it seems they didn't learn from all the other routes they took over and couldn't run the service and left people hours out of not knowing where or when a bus would show.

Stephen15 · 21-01-2019 8:51pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

You have taken what I said completely wrong.

The routes are gone I get that, I get dB are getting extra buses.... I do know this I work there as you are well aware as I have never hidden the fact.

What I meant by taking space is at bus stops, roads taken over by the amount of them running together training etc.

They could well have had extra buses on stand by to get it up and running right this morning but they didn't do it seems they didn't learn from all the other routes they took over and couldn't run the service and left people hours out of not knowing where or when a bus would show.

Well something I've heard trotted as to why DB services sometimes don't operate or lack capacity is that DB can't take out extra buses without NTA permission so it could be perhaps be that GAI can't operate extra buses without NTA permission also there have been problems with certain buses. The GTs that GAI got have been getting an overhaul and there's been problems lately with them I believe.

Also some of their buses are not yet fit for service and may not have been authorised until the next phase to enter service. They may have had extra buses but not extra drivers too. I think a lot of the blame is going to GAI that should actually be directed at the NTA.

Even if DB were won the tender they'd also have to recruit new drivers and send them out training etc. so it's not something unique to GAI.

CPTM · 21-01-2019 9:49pm

CramCycle wrote: »

That is hardly anything new though, the 17 on quiet days seemed to skip every second timetabled run for sh1ts and giggles. When I moved to Churchtown years ago, it took a week to realise that showing up half an hour early and waiting for 30 minutes after, I could still cover the hours walk on the route and quite possibly never see the 17 before I got to where I wanted to go.

At least on the Dublin bus app, the realtime info was fairly accurate, so if no bus left the station, there wouldn't be one shown along the path of bus stops. You could go to your bus stop on the app, or the bus stops previous to yours, and follow the bus until it was a reasonable time to stroll down to the bus stop. Now we've to stroll to the bus stop and wait up to 45 minutes hoping the next one comes soon. 45 minutes is a long time on a wet miserable work morning!

p_haugh · 21-01-2019 10:23pm

spoonerhead wrote: »

No 17 bus at 7:05 from Blackrock as per timetable, the headache from this today has made up my mind. Another car on the road from tomorrow....

I was also waiting for that bus. I think it left 15 minutes early, as when I was getting off the DART from town at 6:50, I saw a 17 to Rialto leaving that stop :mad:

Stephen15 · 21-01-2019 11:19pm

DUBLINBUSGUY wrote: »

The 161's were also cancelled this evening. I boarded the 17:25 in Dundrum (12111) and just after the Merry Ploughboy Pub a car came flying down the other way with the high beams blinding us taking off the mirror. Called the control and a maintenance van was sent out from the Ballymount depot at around 18:15 (the time we were supposed to be leaving Rockbrook at) and came to us, stranded at the last stop up in Rockbrook. He replaced the mirror and we were ready to go by around 7. Bear in mind we were supposed to have left Dundrum at 18:55 on the last 161 up to Rockbrook before then going OOS to the depot. So, the buses were cancelled and the driver gave me a lift down to the main road, Taylors Lane.

Also a DB SG on the 84 had it's back window on the lower deck smashed outside Bray Station as it was hit by the wing mirror of a GAI Streetlite pulling away from the stop. I would say this is more due to the poor design of the Streetlites due the fact the passenger sides wing mirror protrudes more than most other buses.

The Streetlites seem to be problem buses alright. Very poorly designed by the sounds of things also the wheelchair bay is very cramped and the wheelchair ramp is very steep. The drivers cab looks very poorly designed and I've heard a few leap cards have needed up in the change vault. I might take a spin on one some day just to see what they're like I'm not one to usually do bus spins but I'm genuinely curious to see what these buses are like.

Kh1993 · 21-01-2019 11:33pm

dfx- wrote: »

The thing is it has happened time and time again for each batch introduced so far and it will happen again for the 18/76.

I don't know why they are so underprepared repeatedly. They're not learning from any of it. They've had long enough.

And the problems will continue. Eventually people will get tired of complaining (as has happened with the 17a, disastrous start, still late, stuck in mythical traffic every day, buses stuck on the m50), but what will happen is some will claim it’s settled down and they’ve got the hang of it, when in fact, passengers are too tired from their countless delays to bother complaining. You complain and complain by social media channels or 15 day emails, but the excuses are the same time and time again that you just don’t waste the energy.

How can they keep getting it wrong every time there’s a handover. It’s beggars belief. Does anyone competent in planning work in GA or NTA?

Yer Da sells Avon · 21-01-2019 11:52pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Also a DB SG on the 84 had it's back window on the lower deck outside Bray Station as it was hit by the wing mirror of a GAI Streetlite pulling away from the stop. I would say this is more due to the poor design of the Streetlites due the fact the passenger sides wing mirror protrudes more than most other buses.

In addition to the protruding mirrors, they have a tendency to abruptly jump forward, rather than creep, as the driver releases the brake. This makes maneuvering extremely difficult. There have been several similar incidents, so it's obviously a fundamental design fault, rather than simple driver error. Eventually, this will result in injuries or deaths.

n!ghtmancometh · 21-01-2019 11:54pm

They don't care. Go Ahead/privatisation is the NTA's pet project and failure will never be admitted, despite Go Ahead ballsing up again and again.

The social media complaining was a waste of time with Dublin Bus, the emails were a waste of time with Dublin Bus and even complaining to local politicians was a waste with Dublin Bus, as complaints were never followed up on or recurring issues were fobbed off with the usual 'operational issues', so I imagine the same can be assumed for Go Ahead services.

Message from the NTA is basically: If you cannot afford a car or have no viable alternative to the bus, you are to know your place and accept any auld crap bus service given to you, whilst paying out the nose for said bus service.

TallGlass · 22-01-2019 12:14am

Out of interest. How much are NTA saving here?

Surely Go Ahead have SLAs with the NTA? Are they getting fined for the poor service levels

Stephen15 · 22-01-2019 12:40am

TallGlass wrote: »

Surely Go Ahead have SLAs with the NTA? Are they getting fined for the poor service levels

Just a guess that such SLAs may have some kind of cooling off period attached with them to allow for any teething issues.

markpb · 22-01-2019 12:40am

TallGlass wrote: »

Surely Go Ahead have SLAs with the NTA? Are they getting fined for the poor service levels

I’d be very surprised if the NTA and GAI blindly assumed (like many here) that the changeover would be seamless, that everything would go according to plan and that the timetables would be perfect on day one. Even an ounce of common sense would say that they had planned for interruption. It’s not ideal but it was always extremely likely to happen.

LastStop · 22-01-2019 7:24am

p_haugh wrote: »

I was also waiting for that bus. I think it left 15 minutes early, as when I was getting off the DART from town at 6:50, I saw a 17 to Rialto leaving that stop :mad:

Did you check the new timetable for the 17s? Monday - Friday from blackrock 06.52 and then 07.27.

07.05 is Saturday times

p_haugh · 22-01-2019 7:28am

LastStop wrote: »

Did you check the new timetable for the 17s? Monday - Friday from blackrock 06.52 and then 07.27.

07.05 is Saturday times

Sorry meant 7 in the evening, which is meant to leave at 19:06.

One I saw when getting off the dart was the 18:44, which left 5 minutes late

AlekSmart · 22-01-2019 7:30am

TallGlass wrote: »

Out of interest. How much are NTA saving here?

Surely Go Ahead have SLAs with the NTA? Are they getting fined for the poor service levels

The continuing absence of the GAI Contract specifications from the public domain is now leading to the inevitable speculation and uncertainty as to what oversight is in place on the soending of €172,000,000 of public funding.

It would appear that the Authority's strategy is to force interested parties into submitting Freedom of Information Act requests,which would then allow for very specific or redacted publication of the Contractual elements.

I personally see it as somewhat sinister for a Public Body to be so reluctant to reveal details of a Public Service Contract with a particular company,when the details of all other such PSO contracts remain freely available on the Authorities own website,and have done since inception.

"None of your business"appears to have become the NTA motto,when dealing with the BMO process...?

devnull · 22-01-2019 8:39am

AlekSmart wrote: »

I personally see it as somewhat sinister for a Public Body to be so reluctant to reveal details of a Public Service Contract with a particular company,when the details of all other such PSO contracts remain freely available on the Authorities own website,and have done since inception.

Like the Bus Eireann Waterford one you mean?

Every direct award contract has been treated in the same way as each other and every single tendered contract under the BMO process has been treated exactly the same way as others.

Stephen Gawking · 22-01-2019 10:10am

Has anyone heard of a delay in the final transfer of routes frim DB to GAI? The 18 /76 apparently aren't being transferred until the end of march. Looking really shambolic at this stage. Hope its not true as this whole saga has been dominated by 'teething problems.'

Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

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