Peter Casey's beliefs of Travellers' ethnicity Part II

tretorn · 14-11-2018 11:34am

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/crime-kingpin-shared-multimillion-euro-council-payout-1.3696813

It does appear that the authorities are taking firm action now but but about ten years to late.

As a member of the public whose taxes went to fund the payout to leave whatever property is being referred to I would like to know who exactly was paid and where is the property.

14-11-2018 11:35am

Francie, the graveyard brawl that you witnessed. Was it the one I linked to?

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2018 11:37am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Why waste your time asking questions which he has no intention of answering. All he wants is to aggravate you into a negative response.

No he doesn't and please stop trying to mod the thread from the sidelines.

I made the very reasonable point that 'individuals' do not get to decide what aspects of our culture get treated as 'having a value'.

You can choose to not place a value on them, as I showed. But you don't get to abolish or discriminate against them.
That is the very essence of a democratic society.

Plumbthedepths · 14-11-2018 11:38am

FrancieBrady wrote:

No he doesn't and please stop trying to mod the thread from the sidelines.

Suggesting that it's a waste of time asking you questions is not modding the thread it's a statement of fact. You have dodged every question any one asks you.

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2018 11:39am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Francie, the graveyard brawl that you witnessed. Was it the one I linked to?

What link?

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2018 11:43am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Suggesting that it's a waste of time asking you questions is not modding the thread it's a statement of fact. You have dodged every question any one asks you.

I haven't, I am simply saying that on the subject of their 'value to society' I am not their spokesman.

My point about all of this, is the closing down of a sinister politician and his introduction of incitement to hate to the political domain in this democracy.
That is a toxic development.

I see you have reported my post, let's leave it to the mods so. [/QUOTE]

Plumbthedepths · 14-11-2018 11:47am

Already have, imo anyone that behaves in the manner that you do , does so only to illicit a reaction. If you firmly believe in the unique culture you have spent 100's of posts defending it is reasonable to assume you would be able to define what that culture is . Yet heretofore you have refused or being unable to do so. I'm guessing the latter.

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2018 11:51am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Already have, imo anyone that behaves in the manner that you do , does so only to illicit a reaction. If you firmly believe in the unique culture you have spend 190's of posts defending it is reasonable to assume you would be able to define what that culture is . Yet heretofore you have refused or being unable to do so. I'm guessing the latter.

I have clearly said what my position on that is.

I don't get to decide what their culture is. It is of no importance what I think of it.

I DO get to decide if I want to engage or hold valuable that culture. But I cannot deny it.

Simpler than that I cannot be.

Somebody posited the idea that 'lawlessness, sponging' and something else typically negative where the things travellers were trying to hold on to as 'culturally valuable', it is this kind of toxic ranty debate that Casey has incited. And it is as useless as it is dangerous.

14-11-2018 11:52am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Was it this blessing of the graves?
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/hundreds-brawl-travellers-run-riot-2125461.amp

.

FYI Francie

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2018 11:53am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

FYI Francie

No, it was further north on the border and was quite dangerous at one point. Has been mediated and cooled down now.

14-11-2018 11:57am

Francie, I respect your endurance at this stage but it's completely futile. Casey has blown the lid off a simmering pot, there's no turning back now. These creatures will be held to account one day.

Plumbthedepths · 14-11-2018 12:03pm

FrancieBrady wrote:

I don't get to decide what their culture is. It is of no importance what I think of it.

Yet here you are almost ,what? 1300 posts telling us what you think except what is asked of you. Anyway I thought I had you on ignore. Must not work on the mobile site.

Plumbthedepths · 14-11-2018 12:06pm

Deleted User wrote:

Francie, I respect your endurance at this stage but it's completely futile. Casey has blown the lid off a simmering pot, there's no turning back now. These creatures will be held to account one day.

Casey's best achievement tbh. FF re-examining their traveller policy due to 1 in 3 FF voters voting for him. Certain newspapers willing to write truthful accounts of traveller behaviour.

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2018 12:12pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Yet here you are almost ,what? 1300 posts telling us what you think except what is asked of you. Anyway I thought I had you on ignore. Must not work on the mobile site.

If you are going to ignore me, please also stop coaching others.

I am not going to to get into the pro and cons of what travellers regard as their culture and what is valuable to society.

I am offering another point of view to the debate and rejecting Casey's style of politics. If you can't handle that then just ignore me. And leave it to those who can defend him.

Plumbthedepths · 14-11-2018 12:15pm

FrancieBrady wrote:

If you are going to ignore me, please also stop coaching others.

Are you trying to tell me how to behave on thread? Is that not by definition back seat modding? I feel another report coming.

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2018 12:19pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Are you trying to tell me how to behave on thread? Is that not by definition back seat modding? I feel another report coming.

I am asking you (note the word 'please') to stop coaching others.

A 'mod' would be an 'instruction' to do it.

PlaneSpeeking · 14-11-2018 12:19pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you are going to ignore me, please also stop coaching others.

I am not going to to get into the pro and cons of what travellers regard as their culture and what is valuable to society.

I am offering another point of view to the debate and rejecting Casey's style of politics. If you can't handle that then just ignore me. And leave it to those who can defend him.

Which would be everyone with intelligence, their eyes open and a distinct lack of wooly headed nostalgia for a time that never existed.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 14-11-2018 12:27pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My point about all of this, is the closing down of a sinister politician and his introduction of incitement to hate to the political domain in this democracy.

The same "sinister politician" got 23 percent of the vote on election day, despite all the efforts by Leo Varadkar, RTE, and the rest of the media to demonize him and encourage people not to vote for him.

Casey did not "incite hatred." He countered the prevailing progressive tendency to romanticize Travellers as a disadvantaged ethnic minority who just need some long-overdue recognition for their numerous valuable contributions to Irish society.

Many Irish people are tired of Tubridy and his ilk turning a blind eye to Travellers' involvement in organized crime, gang violence, feuding, tax evasion, insurance fraud, and the terrorizing of Ireland's elderly rural population.

As you continue to condemn Casey's comments, the Gardai in Louth are busy taking an all-hands-on-deck approach to escalating gang violence, as reinforcements come from the UK to wreak havoc in local communities.

There has been a huge increase in armed patrols in Drogheda, and the armed Regional Support Unit (RSU) is currently being deployed in the area on a 24-hour basis.

All hands on deck? Armed patrols? The Regional Support Unit deployed 24 hours a day? I wonder how much this huge policing operation is costing the taxpayer. But let's turn a blind eye to the evident problems, and keep calling anyone who criticizes Travellers a racist.

Mr. CooL ICE · 14-11-2018 12:46pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My point about all of this, is the closing down of a sinister politician and his introduction of incitement to hate to the political domain in this democracy.

Mod: FrancieBrady, other posters have repeatedly shown that Peter Casey's statements have not been racist, let alone incitement to hatred. Yet, you keep on bringing it up.

Your next post in this thread had better be some sort of proof that Peter Casey has been racist, made racist statements or has otherwise committed some sort of incitement to hatred. If you can't come up with something somewhat concrete, consider yourself threadbanned.

BattleCorp · 14-11-2018 12:55pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am not going to to get into the pro and cons of what travellers regard as their culture and what is valuable to society.

I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find one single pro for traveller culture. By that I mean finding one aspect of their culture that benefits the rest of society.

BarryD2 · 14-11-2018 1:22pm

Hattie Puny Litterbug wrote: »

We are accustomed to Travellers and their advocates referring to their "unique heritage, culture and traditions."

What is this unique heritage?
What are these unique customs?
What are their unique traditions?

Nobody can give specific answers to these questions.

Maybe you're not asking in the right place? My own thoughts are that there's good and bad in terms of what might be called 'traveller culture'.

Some of the good points are:
- very close family units
- 'traditional' values
- some traveller families kept oral story telling and traditional music traditions alive when they were unpopular with official Ireland
- live more lightly on the earth in terms of use of resources over lifetime, compared to many settled people.

Some bad points are:
- many seem to have a total disregard for responsible disposal of their rubbish.
- petty thieving and fighting
- women have more constrained roles
- little effort made to contribute to society as a whole and help support the state.

On the whole these days, I think it's fair to say that travellers are being slowly subsumed into settled society and there's no real need or value to preserve whatever value once existed. Indeed the very idea of investing additional money in their 'culture' is counter productive to the idea of preserving it anyway.

PlaneSpeeking · 14-11-2018 1:24pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

Maybe you're not asking in the right place? My own thoughts are that there's good and bad in terms of what might be called 'traveller culture'.

Some of the good points are:
- very close family units
- 'traditional' values
- some traveller families kept oral story telling and traditional music traditions alive when they were unpopular with official Ireland
- live more lightly on the earth in terms of use of resources over lifetime, compared to many settled people.

Some bad points are:
- many seem to have a total disregard for responsible disposal of their rubbish.
- petty thieving and fighting
- women have more constrained roles
- little effort made to contribute to society as a whole and help support the state.

On the whole these days, I think it's fair to say that travellers are being slowly subsumed into settled society and there's no real need or value to preserve whatever value once existed. Indeed the very idea of investing additional money in their 'culture' is counter productive to the idea of preserving it anyway.

The award for understatement of the century goes to.....

Plumbthedepths · 14-11-2018 1:32pm

BarryD2 wrote:

- very close family units - .

Marrying your first cousin. Sure what could go wrong.

Roger Hassenforder · 14-11-2018 1:35pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

Maybe you're not asking in the right place? My own thoughts are that there's good and bad in terms of what might be called 'traveller culture'.

Some of the good points are:
- very close family units
- 'traditional' values
- some traveller families kept oral story telling and traditional music traditions alive when they were unpopular with official Ireland
- live more lightly on the earth in terms of use of resources over lifetime, compared to many settled people.

Fair play, youbat least had a go at it.
Disagree with everything though.

Close family units isnt unique, but it does have negative implications, and having regard to the levels of domestic violence, i think this is a negative.

My experience of travelles is they have zero regard for the earth, air or environment.

What are traditional values?
Deeply hypocritical religious ethos
Education aversion?
Employment aversion?

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2018 1:39pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find one single pro for traveller culture. By that I mean finding one aspect of their culture that benefits the rest of society.

And I will say again, that is not the test.

All sections of this society have been allowed to pursue cultural activity if they deem it important to them, themselves.
In many cases I don't get a say on their relative value.
That is one of the things you have to put up with in a truly 'inclusive' society where everyone is entitled to 'parity of esteem'.
Which is exactly what SEMS was designed to promote here.

Mod: Banned

Omackeral · 14-11-2018 1:40pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

None of what was said about the above %'s 'ommttted or airbrushed' or omitted or invented anything? They were statements of fact and simply looking at ACTUAL results another way.

Did you omit anything Casey said? Yes you did...the very definition of 'selectivity' :rolleyes:

You said he used hate speech. He did not. There's a fact.
He said nobody should be discriminated against. There's another fact.
YOU have been liberal with your figures to the point you've been warned about same on thread. That's facto numero tres. I think that's what they call a hat-trick.

You're embarrassing yourself again.

PlaneSpeeking · 14-11-2018 1:43pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And I will say again, that is not the test.

All sections of this society have been allowed to pursue cultural activity if they deem it important to them, themselves.
In many cases I don't get a say on their relative value.
That is one of the things you have to put up with in a truly 'inclusive' society where everyone is entitled to 'parity of esteem'.
Which is exactly what SEMS was designed to promote here.

You could not be more glaringly wrong.

We do not have "to put up" with:

Female Genital Mutilation
Santeria animal sacrifices
Child marriage
Polygamy/Polyandry
Sharia-led "no go areas".

And all the other lovely "benefits" of a multicultural Ireland - so why must we ensure the hell that the Travellers put the rest of the normal Irish people through ?

Roger Hassenforder · 14-11-2018 1:46pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And I will say again, that is not the test.

All sections of this society have been allowed to pursue cultural activity if they deem it important to them, themselves.
In many cases I don't get a say on their relative value.
That is one of the things you have to put up with in a truly 'inclusive' society where everyone is entitled to 'parity of esteem'.
Which is exactly what SEMS was designed to promote here.

I think Francie, the issue people have, is the cultural activity attributable to your beloved SEMS is overwhelmingly negative, and adversely impacting those expected to fund this culture.

If you want to learn to sail, pay for lessons, buy a boat. Enjoy yourself
If you want to go horse riding, pay for lessons, buy a horse and some land. Enjoy.

But if you want to go sulkie racing on a national primary road, risking life and limb of everyone you encounter, dont come demanding a free paddock and stable, to go along with your free house. You can fcuk the fcuk off!

Plumbthedepths · 14-11-2018 1:47pm

FrancieBrady wrote:

And I will say again, that is not the test.

Any comment to the post about your repeated claims of hate speech?

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2018 1:52pm

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

You could not be more glaringly wrong.

We do not have "to put up" with:

Female Genital Mutilation
Santeria animal sacrifices
Child marriage
Polygamy/Polyandry
Sharia-led "no go areas".

And all the other lovely "benefits" of a multicultural Ireland - so why must we ensure the hell that the Travellers put the rest of the normal Irish people through ?

And can you show were the above is being asked for?

Some travellers like some settled people put others through hell, nobody is disputing this fact.
But nobody within the traveller representative groups are asking that this be accepted either.

Peter Casey's beliefs of Travellers' ethnicity Part II

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