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Peter Casey's beliefs of Travellers' ethnicity Part II

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    #1502
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,028 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Selective?!!?!! Are you for real?! All your 10% of the 23% of the 46% of the square root of pi and dont forget to carry the one numbers crunching was about as selective as you could get. My god that's the pot calling the kettle black if ever I saw it!

    None of what was said about the above %'s 'ommttted or airbrushed' or omitted or invented anything? They were statements of fact and simply looking at ACTUAL results another way.

    Did you omit anything Casey said? Yes you did...the very definition of 'selectivity' :rolleyes:


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    #1503
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    score2020 wrote: »
    sad to see so much racism from casey voters
    really shocking

    Racism? I pointed out the scientifically verified fact that Travellers are of Irish descent. Any minor genetic differences between Travellers and the settled population stem from generations of intermarrying with their cousins. If generations of inbreeding makes Travellers an ethnic minority, the Royal Family could probably also qualify for ethnic minority status on the same grounds.
    erica74 wrote: »
    I just want to know what about traveller culture should be preserved because it's so valuable to society. I have asked, as have others, what their culture adds to society and why it's so important but, strangely, that hasn't been answered.

    I'd love to know the answer to this question too, but I don't imagine that any coherent answers will be forthcoming. You'll probably just be called a racist for asking.


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    #1504
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Hattie Puny Litterbug wrote: »
    Racism? I pointed out the scientifically verified fact that Travellers are of Irish descent. Any minor genetic differences between Travellers and the settled population stem from generations of intermarrying with their cousins. If generations of inbreeding makes Travellers an ethnic minority, the Royal Family could probably also qualify for ethnic minority status on the same grounds.



    I'd love to know the answer to this question too, but I don't imagine that any coherent answers will be forthcoming. You'll probably just be called a racist for asking.

    I asked not long back why so many young black men and boys in London etc were adopting a faux Caribbean accent and massing into violent, knife wielding gangs - what makes this happen ? How can the murders be stopped ?

    Guess what ? "That's racist".


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    #1505
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,028 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Hattie Puny Litterbug wrote: »

    I'd love to know the answer to this question too, but I don't imagine that any coherent answers will be forthcoming. You'll probably just be called a racist for asking.

    Why is the test suddenly 'of value to society'?

    There are many things and activities preserved or allowed in this country that are of no value to me, but as a democrat I am happy that they are as they are of value to some.
    Off the top off my head:
    The Paddy's Day stuff,
    Sean-Nos
    The Ploughing Championship


    The list would be quite long if it were things I see as 'no value'. All those things would have 'value' to the people who do them though. So surely it is up to travellers, like every other section of society to decide 'what is of value' to them?


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    #1506
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    So alot of members of the traveller community arriving home from the UK to fight..... I mean for Christmas.....


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    #1507
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Yes they are. And when they spill over to affect the settled community they are dealt with. I was at a blessing of the graves when one was dealt with by gardai and riot squad 5 or 6 years ago.

    Quite clear from the article that gardai reaction to dealing with these outbreaks has NOT been affected by SEMS which is a year old.

    So more sensationalist comment from you there Edward.

    Was it this blessing of the graves?
    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/hundreds-brawl-travellers-run-riot-2125461.amp

    Kinda ironic that they have ethnic status based on their religious beliefs but they have no issue brawling on the sacred ground they hold so dear to their hearts.

    Their ethnic minority status should be revoked in my opinion. Many of the reasons for granting it in the first place have been debunked in this very thread.


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    #1508
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Why is the test suddenly 'of value to society'?

    There are many things and activities preserved or allowed in this country that are of no value to me, but as a democrat I am happy that they are as they are of value to some.
    Off the top off my head:
    The Paddy's Day stuff,
    Sean-Nos
    The Ploughing Championship


    The list would be quite long if it were things I see as 'no value'. All those things would have 'value' to the people who do them though. So surely it is up to travellers, like every other section of society to decide 'what is of value' to them?

    The Paddy's Day stuff, Tourism, feel good factor, day off.
    Sean-Nos How is it harmful ???? Not my bag but so what ?
    The Ploughing Championship Local tourism, flash back to a simpler time

    The fact that you can ride your blinkered rose coloured view of the (word redacted I'm not allowed to use) community and their violence, lawlessness, tax dodging, sponging ways and compare it with a bank holiday and three days of Marty riding a tractor in Offaly speaks volumes about you.


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    #1509
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Just found this. Makes interesting reading.

    “Symbolic Implications
    Pride, respect and inclusion are fundamental to the formal recognition of Traveller ethnicity. Ethnic recognition has the potential to:
    ■ Enhance self-esteem, confidence and pride in Traveller identity and traditions. Travellers can feel pride that the State recognises the dignity of Traveller culture and acknowledges Travellers’ valuable contributions to Irish society
    ■ Respect and support Travellers’ place in Irish society affirming that Travellers’ unique cultural identity should be celebrated, promoted and respected and not something that should be hidden for fear of discrimination
    ■ Deconstruct centuries of internalised oppression within the community as well as transform mind-sets in the State and general population towards mutual respect, facilitating positive engagement between Travellers and the majority population”

    https://www.paveepoint.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/EthnicityLeaflet.pdf


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    #1510
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Why is the test suddenly 'of value to society'?

    Because Enda Kenny, in recognizing Travellers as a distinct ethnic group, made reference to their "unique heritage, culture and traditions." Other politicians have started campaigning for Traveller culture and history to be taught in schools.

    Why would we grant ethnic status on the basis of tradition and culture, and add them to the school curriculum, if they are of no value to society?

    Maybe, rather than dodging the question, you could enlighten us as to what "unique heritage, culture and traditions" Travellers have added to Irish society, and why they should be taught to schoolchildren.


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    #1511
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,028 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    The Paddy's Day stuff, Tourism, feel good factor, day off.
    Sean-Nos How is it harmful ???? Not my bag but so what ?
    The Ploughing Championship Local tourism, flash back to a simpler time

    The fact that you can ride your blinkered rose coloured view of the (word redacted I'm not allowed to use) community and their violence, lawlessness, tax dodging, sponging ways and compare it with a bank holiday and three days of Marty riding a tractor in Offaly speaks volumes about you.

    First, before you start ranting can you point to anywhere that traveller reps say they wish to retain violence, lawlessness, tax dodging, sponging ways as a recognised 'part' of their 'culture'?

    Ridiculous rants are ridiculous rants. :rolleyes:


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    #1512
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Pass me the bucket, Maryanne!


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    #1513
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    Pass me the bucket, Maryanne!

    When I’ve finished upchucking.


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    #1514
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Deleted User wrote:
    “Symbolic Implications Pride, respect and inclusion are fundamental to the formal recognition of Traveller ethnicity. Ethnic recognition has the potential to: â–  Enhance self-esteem, confidence and pride in Traveller identity and traditions. Travellers can feel pride that the State recognises the dignity of Traveller culture and acknowledges Travellers’ valuable contributions to Irish society â–  Respect and support Travellers’ place in Irish society affirming that Travellers’ unique cultural identity should be celebrated, promoted and respected and not something that should be hidden for fear of discrimination â–  Deconstruct centuries of internalised oppression within the community as well as transform mind-sets in the State and general population towards mutual respect, facilitating positive engagement between Travellers and the majority populationâ€


    On bullet point 1 "Traveller's valuable contributions to Irish society"....ah a little help anyone know exactly what are those valuable contributions, I can think of a whole host of contributions we could do without but of value, none.


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    #1515
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Deleted User wrote: »
    When I’ve finished upchucking.

    I'm getting in the queue!


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    #1516
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Hattie Puny Litterbug wrote: »
    What exactly are "Travellers' valuable contributions to Irish society"? Can anyone give a list?

    Keeping Gardai busy and making going for a jar in some towns like being in Boardwalk Empire ?

    Beyond that boss, no idea.


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    #1517
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    First, before you start ranting can you point to anywhere that traveller reps say they wish to retain violence, lawlessness, tax dodging, sponging ways as a recognised 'part' of their 'culture'?

    Ridiculous rants are ridiculous rants. :rolleyes:

    When you actually come up with a cohesive point about what their "culture" actually is then perhaps we can discuss.

    Till then I stand by my assessment.


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    #1518
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,028 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Hattie Puny Litterbug wrote: »
    Because Enda Kenny, in recognizing Travellers as a distinct ethnic group, made reference to their "unique heritage, culture and traditions." Other politicians have started campaigning for Traveller culture and history to be taught in schools.

    Why would we grant ethnic status on the basis of tradition and culture, and add them to the school curriculum, if they are of no value to society?

    Maybe, rather than dodging the question, you could enlighten us as to what "unique heritage, culture and traditions" Travellers have added to Irish society, and why they should be taught to schoolchildren.

    But you or I don't get to decide that 'value' as an individual. Leave traveller culture out of it and try it with any other 'value'.

    'I don't want anything to be granted to Sean Nos singers or the culture of Sean Nos singers'.

    How do you think you would get on, doing the above? :D Correct: You would get nowhere.


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    #1519
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,028 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    When you actually come up with a cohesive point about what their "culture" actually is then perhaps we can discuss.

    Till then I stand by my assessment.

    That is my point...it is NOT up to me, and it isn't up to you either.


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    #1520
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Hattie Puny Litterbug wrote:
    What exactly are "Travellers' valuable contributions to Irish society"? Can anyone give a list?

    Well they have brought the settled rural community closer together. Textalert and Community Watch. A great way to encourage neighbours to watch out for each other.


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    #1521
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    But you or I don't get to decide that 'value' as an individual. Leave traveller culture out of it and try it with any other 'value'.

    'I don't want anything to be granted to Sean Nos singers or the culture of Sean Nos singers'.

    How do you think you would get on, doing the above? :D Correct: You would get nowhere.

    The 85 year old in the next town to mine wasn't attacked by three singers and forcibly sung to though.


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    #1522
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    But you or I don't get to decide that 'value' as an individual. Leave traveller culture out of it and try it with any other 'value'.

    'I don't want anything to be granted to Sean Nos singers or the culture of Sean Nos singers'.

    How do you think you would get on, doing the above? :D Correct: You would get nowhere.

    Sean nós singers have not sought recognition as an ethnic minority. But if we want to identify the specific cultural contribution that sean nós singing has made to Irish history and society, it is quite easy to do so.

    We are accustomed to Travellers and their advocates referring to their "unique heritage, culture and traditions."

    What is this unique heritage?
    What are these unique customs?
    What are their unique traditions?

    Nobody can give specific answers to these questions.


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    #1523
    erica74
    Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭erica74


    Hattie Puny Litterbug wrote: »
    Because Enda Kenny, in recognizing Travellers as a distinct ethnic group, made reference to their "unique heritage, culture and traditions." Other politicians have started campaigning for Traveller culture and history to be taught in schools.

    Why would we grant ethnic status on the basis of tradition and culture, and add them to the school curriculum, if they are of no value to society?

    Maybe, rather than dodging the question, you could enlighten us as to what "unique heritage, culture and traditions" Travellers have added to Irish society, and why they should be taught to schoolchildren.

    And isn't it funny how the question still hasn't been answered... Surely the traveller defenders can come up with at least one reason why their culture needs to be preserved and protected? One reason, that's all I'm asking for now.


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    #1524
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    erica74 wrote: »
    And isn't it funny how the question still hasn't been answered... Surely the traveller defenders can come up with at least one reason why their culture needs to be preserved and protected? One reason, that's all I'm asking for now.

    I tried but apparently it's "not up to them" (or me for that matter!) to answer that question!


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    #1525
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,028 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    I tried but apparently it's "not up to them" (or me for that matter!) to answer that question!

    Can you read posts correctly? Would be a great help.


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    #1526
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    PlaneSpeeking wrote:
    I tried but apparently it's "not up to them" (or me for that matter!) to answer that question!


    If my taxes are paying for someone to have a unique culture and lifestyle it's a fair question to ask exactly what is that which makes that culture unique and worthy of support.


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    #1527
    erica74
    Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭erica74


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Well they have brought the settled rural community closer together. Textalert and Community Watch. A great way to encourage neighbours to watch out for each other.

    Travellers are the reason our community watch text alert system was set up. It's organised and managed by the locals and it has been an excellent resource. I live in rural Ireland, on a farm, surrounded by farms and it has been very helpful and, like you say, encourages us all to band together and keep an eye on things because it feels like a "team" effort.


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    #1528
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Can you read posts correctly? Would be a great help.

    Could you answer some questions rather than endlessly dodging them? That would be a great help.


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    #1529
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,028 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Hattie Puny Litterbug wrote: »
    Could you answer some questions rather than endlessly dodging them? That would be a great help.

    I am not and never have set my self up as a spokesman for the Traveller community. If you cannot educate/research yourself then that is your problem.


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    #1530
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    erica74 wrote:
    Travellers are the reason our community watch text alert system was set up. It's organised and managed by the locals and it has been an excellent resource. I live in rural Ireland, on a farm, surrounded by farms and it has been very helpful and, like you say, encourages us all to band together and keep an eye on things because it feels like a "team" effort.


    It's a great system, a couple of months back we used the text alert system to organise a nice get together with a few members of the travelling community as we heard they were in the area visiting some of our elderly neighbours. It was an interesting cultural experience, funny though they seemed very keen to leave as the fun started I thought everyone loves hurling?.. I and several of my neighbours were hurt. Some of my neighbours are even keen to visit the Travellers but alas they would not tell us their address..... wonder why.


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    #1531
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Hattie Puny Litterbug wrote:
    Could you answer some questions rather than endlessly dodging them? That would be a great help.


    Why waste your time asking questions which he has no intention of answering. All he wants is to aggravate you into a negative response.


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