General gaming discussion

Grumpypants · 08-10-2019 8:23pm

Nothing like a big bag of money to kill that moral compass.

johnny_ultimate · 08-10-2019 8:23pm

Some staff understandably not best pleased:

https://twitter.com/lackofrealism/status/1181639970332659712?s=21

gizmo · 08-10-2019 10:30pm

BlizzCon in what, 24 days? That's streamed live, isn't it?

Should be interesting...

pixelburp · 08-10-2019 10:39pm

If I'm reading things right, Tencent own 5% of Activision too, but 48% of Epic Games. So the question does bounce back to the consumers: if you have a moral objection to Chinese money, should boycotts be applied, and should it be blanket? Gamers don't do boycotts and historically have shown themselves to be unwilling to follow through.

Not being sanctimonious here either cos Hollywood is the same, and I'm damn sure I've watched plenty of mainstream cinema co-funded with Chinese cash. It's harder too with cinema, given how many co-producers and funds go into film production.

johnny_ultimate · 08-10-2019 10:56pm

Couple of US senators getting involved now. Quite fascinated with how Hong Kong seems to be maybe the one major social issue that bridges partisan and ideological divides these days... outside China of course :pac:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bjw535/blizzards-hong-kong-screw-up-is-officially-an-international-incident

gizmo · 08-10-2019 11:00pm

pixelburp wrote: »

If I'm reading things right, Tencent own 5% of Activision too, but 48% of Epic Games. So the question does bounce back to the consumers: if you have a moral objection to Chinese money, should boycotts be applied, and should it be blanket? Gamers don't do boycotts and historically have shown themselves to be unwilling to follow through.

Not being sanctimonious here either cos Hollywood is the same, and I'm damn sure I've watched plenty of mainstream cinema co-funded with Chinese cash. It's harder too with cinema, given how many co-producers and funds go into film production.

Well on the games side of things there's two angles to consider, the Blizzard-based one and the Tencent one.

In the former case, Blizzard's actions were taken because they, through their parent company, have a vested interest in staying on the right side of not only the Chinese government but also Chinese gamers. Any potential boycott should, in this instance, be directed at them.

The Tencent side of things is slightly different as they were one of a number of firms who responded directly to the similar the NBA incident. If you wanted to boycott Tencent then the list of companies involved would be considerably longer. They own stakes in Grinding Gear Games (makers of Path of Exile, 80%), Epic (40%), Funcom (29%), Bluehole (10%), Ubisoft (5%), Paradox (5%) and Activision (~4.9%). Riot Games is wholly owned by them. They've also established partnerships with Square Enix, Take-Two and Lego on top of the distribution deals for a myriad of titles as part of their WeGame platform.

Want to organise that boycott? Bear in mind that Tencent have also invested in both Discord and Reddit so that may complicate things further.

Benzino · 08-10-2019 11:10pm

pixelburp wrote: »

If I'm reading things right, Tencent own 5% of Activision too, but 48% of Epic Games. So the question does bounce back to the consumers: if you have a moral objection to Chinese money, should boycotts be applied, and should it be blanket? Gamers don't do boycotts and historically have shown themselves to be unwilling to follow through.

Not being sanctimonious here either cos Hollywood is the same, and I'm damn sure I've watched plenty of mainstream cinema co-funded with Chinese cash. It's harder too with cinema, given how many co-producers and funds go into film production.

Yup, it's hard. So much of our clothes, footwear, electronic devices also come from China. It's understandable why boycotts aren't followed through, as so many products are made or partly made there.

pixelburp · 09-10-2019 8:49am

Benzino wrote: »

Yup, it's hard. So much of our clothes, footwear, electronic devices also come from China. It's understandable why boycotts aren't followed through, as so many products are made or partly made there.

Well, "fast fashion" is proving to a total scourge to the environment anyway (a cheap pair of jeans is supposedly horrendous for industrial waste?), so it's worth the effort to boycott cheap tat made in China / India etc. IMO. Entertainment is much harder IMO given the provenance of the output or the production company can be very hard to track down compared to clothes. Labels usually give a quick summary & the industry as a whole feels more scrutinised and exposed to publicity than the entertainment industries.

In other news, finally got around to playing Hollow Knight and ... ... yeah, it's OK. Its art style and atmosphere is fantastically beautiful & suspect this is accounting for its fame, cos the actual Metroidvania parts are sometimes quite subpar.

The fact you have to purchase the mapping ability, as well as the iconography within (and your position!!), but the game doesn't tell you this, must have doubtlessly left some folk flailing around for ages. And there's a special place in game development hell for those who don't put a Save Point next to a Boss Room. That's the kind of nonsense that went out of style with Castlevania II.

09-10-2019 9:28am

Boycotting China means not getting out of bed. Actually, you'd probably have to get rid of the bed too.

PopePalpatine · 09-10-2019 12:51pm

*sighs in OnePlus owner*

Nody · 09-10-2019 9:47pm

pixelburp wrote: »

They didn't just sack the player, I believe even the presenters got the heave-ho, though watching the clip it's hard to see what on earth they could have done. Cut to commercial quicker? It'd be a hilarious over-reaction if it wasn't symptomatic of both China's zero-tolerance policy to dissent & the increasing prevalence of Chinese money in the Entertainment industry. Hollywood and Gaming is awash with money from that country, and between gaming's social-media existence & the growing political unrest in China itself, the centre couldn't always hold

They said "Say it in Chinese" before ducking under the table; that's the reason Blizzard use that they were guilty as well. This is beyond the fact one of them was a huge commentator on Overwatch over there but did HS on the side so to speak and he got a lifetime ban for it in Overwatch as well.

As a fun note Blizzard really **** the bed on this one as it's causing all kinds of push back. Kibler (one of the most famous Hearthstone presenters) have informed Blizzard he's not going to present the Grand final as planned and there are plenty of planned protests going to be done at Blizcon as well and of course other streamers on official Blizz events are getting in on it...

Link to American University Hearthstone team supporting HK live

Oh and of course Blizzard makes an official apology to China...

Now we only need to wait for Trump to wade in because this has hit Fox news...

And if you want to do something; well there's this new law around GDPR...

EoinHef · 10-10-2019 6:27am

gizmo wrote: »

Well on the games side of things there's two angles to consider, the Blizzard-based one and the Tencent one.

In the former case, Blizzard's actions were taken because they, through their parent company, have a vested interest in staying on the right side of not only the Chinese government but also Chinese gamers. Any potential boycott should, in this instance, be directed at them.

The Tencent side of things is slightly different as they were one of a number of firms who responded directly to the similar the NBA incident. If you wanted to boycott Tencent then the list of companies involved would be considerably longer. They own stakes in Grinding Gear Games (makers of Path of Exile, 80%), Epic (40%), Funcom (29%), Bluehole (10%), Ubisoft (5%), Paradox (5%) and Activision (~4.9%). Riot Games is wholly owned by them. They've also established partnerships with Square Enix, Take-Two and Lego on top of the distribution deals for a myriad of titles as part of their WeGame platform.

Want to organise that boycott? Bear in mind that Tencent have also invested in both Discord and Reddit so that may complicate things further.

Iirc you could add frontier developments of elite dangerous fame to that list,now devleoping multiple titles.

9% stake i think.

Nody · 11-10-2019 10:11am

Admirable (another very big Hearthstone caster) has stepped down as well from Blizzcon and GM Bucharest.

And the US team holding up a "Free HK; Boycott Blizzard" sign on a live official Blizzard stream received no penalties:
https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/1182409678371934212?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1182409678371934212&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fdg52wf%3Fresponsive%3Dtrue%26is_nightmode%3Dfalse

Shiminay · 11-10-2019 11:59am

None of this is surprising because this is the same mindset and company/fan disconnect that gave us the Diablo mobile phone game as a big announcement. It is all terribly disappointing though.

Chris_Heilong · 11-10-2019 12:56pm

See the thing is China has not really changed, China is China but how the companies that want the Chinese money are behaving is a disgrace.

Robert ninja · 11-10-2019 10:46pm

Mark Kern doing a livestream interview about this topic right now: https://dlive.tv/TheQuartering

Canis Lupus · 11-10-2019 11:59pm

I actually didn't have an issue with what Blizzard did up to the point where they didn't penalise AU. If you have rules you apply them consistently.

johnny_ultimate · 12-10-2019 7:52am

Blizzard President wrote:

I want to be clear: our relationships in China had no influence on our decision.

Blizzard finally releases nonsense statement, immediately makes situation worse.

https://twitter.com/blizzard_ent/status/1182813270639431681?s=21

super_furry · 12-10-2019 7:56am

Jesus Christ, they really don’t get it at all do they?

Penn · 12-10-2019 8:33am

Have they removed the apology? Getting a 404

Grumpypants · 12-10-2019 9:01am

All they have to say is that players' personal political views don't represent the company. Have a word with the guy and say knock it off.

pixelburp · 12-10-2019 9:48am

The statement's not a huge surprise IMO: studios have been trying to have their cake and eat it for a while, pleading political neutrality even in face of clearly political output; when you got cases like Unisoft trying to claim being apolitical while making something openly so like The Division, the industry is operating in bad faith. They want to be part of the entertainment industry without acknowledging the realities of existing in that quasi artistic space. It was easy to play both sides when it was fictional wars or abstractly political concepts from Call of Duty games. Different matter when real human beings use your platform to make political statements.

Mind you, we're also talking about a country that banned Winnie the Pooh because its prime minister was insecure over being compared to the cartoon bear. China clearly doesn't have a sense of humour or self deprecation, and has that resting paranoid insecurity most authoritarian states possess.

Spear · 12-10-2019 2:30pm

There's a linguistic analysis doing the rounds suggesting that the statement was partially written by a Chinese speaker despite the claim it's the words of the Blizzard boss J. Allen Brack:

Imgur mirror:
https://imgur.com/gallery/xd7yQOr

and original source on twitter:
https://twitter.com/SGBluebell/status/1182817588147052544?s=19

Venom · 12-10-2019 3:12pm

Blizzard seems to have pulled the store page for the statue of the Overwatch character Mei, who has become a figurehead of sorts for the Hong Kong protests among Western gamers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/dgjnmb/overwatch_mei_statue_disappeared_from_blizzard/

Mr Crispy · 14-10-2019 11:25pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Nice; bit fed up these days of "Go to X and hit Y over the head" RPGs, it's a bit of a lazy gameplay loop. Respect to anyone trying to think outside the box.

I really like the paintbrush aesthetic, not enough games make use of these kind of artwork styles; really sets it apart and gives it an identity before you even play the thing.

FWIW, Karak gave it an enthusiastic review, calling it a fantastic game (with the caveat that the genre may not be for everyone). More reviews to roll in shortly I imagine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-HPqErucFk

pixelburp · 15-10-2019 9:19am

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

FWIW, Karak gave it an enthusiastic review, calling it a fantastic game (with the caveat that the genre may not be for everyone). More reviews to roll in shortly I imagine.

That sounds both amazing and utterly bewildering, I want to play it for both reasons

pixelburp · 17-10-2019 2:09pm

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-10-16-blizzard-finally-suspends-us-hearthstone-team-that-staged-protest-during-stream

Looks like the US Hearthstone team that also threw up a pro-HK protest has itself, belatedly, received a ban. Such a shítshow, and as a response to Blizzard's hang-wringing about being apolitical, I'm aligning with Jim Sterling's thinking, suggesting people truly put this waffle to the test; that streamers should start posting brazen support for Trans / LGBTQ rights and similar, to see if Blizzard have the nerve to throw bans on those users. After all, if Blizzard are honest about maintaining an apolitical stance, then they should even ban the less controversial material

dohboy · 17-10-2019 2:17pm

The Blizzard thing is a ****show but I'm also kinda uncomfortable with the amount of tubthumping from US interests.

pixelburp · 17-10-2019 3:00pm

dohboy wrote: »

The Blizzard thing is a ****show but I'm also kinda uncomfortable with the amount of tubthumping from US interests.

Huh? As opposed to the Chinese interests that are the predominant discussion point in this controversy?

Retr0gamer · 17-10-2019 3:31pm

Love to see if anyone shouts about how Nazis and the KKK are bad and if they will be banned as well.

johnny_ultimate · 17-10-2019 8:44pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Huh? As opposed to the Chinese interests that are the predominant discussion point in this controversy?

It's a fair point, honestly, and one of the unique complexities of the Hong Kong situation. The recent controversies have brought a lot of interests (predominately US) out of the woodwork for less than admirable reasons. I mean, it'd be nice to think everyone's simply speaking up against an authoritarian regime in support of civil and human rights. But a lot of people who are rather quiet on other (domestic and international) human rights issues and authoritarian policies are quite vocal on this particular issue only - your Ted Cruzes and Marco Rubios of the world, who'll tolerate a lot of **** in their own country but get outraged when it comes to Hong Kong. You see a lot of nationalist, commercial and imperial interests mixed up in the conversation, and in some of the internet's worst people’s ill or non-veiled racism / Sinophobia added to the cocktail too.

So yes: few have issues denouncing Blizzard for this undeniable act of corporate cowardice, nor should they. Often worth considering why some particular voices are denouncing it, though

Kiith · 18-10-2019 11:55am

NBA-2K20 was the best selling game September. More proof that the majority of gamers couldn't give a **** about microtransactions, and will buy anything. Is it any wonder why publishers keep peddling this crap?

https://ie.ign.com/articles/2019/10/17/nba-2k20-is-september-2019s-best-selling-game

K.O.Kiki · 18-10-2019 12:35pm

Kiith wrote: »

NBA-2K20 was the best selling game September. More proof that the majority of gamers couldn't give a **** about microtransactions, and will buy anything. Is it any wonder why publishers keep peddling this crap?

https://ie.ign.com/articles/2019/10/17/nba-2k20-is-september-2019s-best-selling-game

NPD sales data doesn't include all digital sales, as not every publisher/platform cooperates with them.

Also - the vast majority of NBA fans are idiots, and to call them "gamers" would be a stretch.

J. Marston · 18-10-2019 3:22pm

"Am I out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong."

Except they actually are wrong this time. Idiot kids.

pixelburp · 18-10-2019 3:35pm

Sports games are surely an anomaly, given their appeal is in the same sphere as replica kits and other paraphernalia of sports-fandom? I've just assumed they constantly sell for that same reason, sports fans gotta have that latest kit, the latest players; by all accounts in this day & age, EA etc. could easily release patches or DLC to update previous iterations with the modern teams, kits & players - but they don't. Cos they know their fanbase crave the latest, most up to date stats or kits. That the games are just known by the sports' governing bodies is clue enough as to how much they exist as 'official' products for the discerning fan.

Retr0gamer · 18-10-2019 3:49pm

It's because they know they can barely update a game every year and their captive audience will be there day 1 to buy it again.

Also they know they don't even have to make the games fun as a game that plays well is the least important thing to sports game fans. If you stripped the likes of Fifa of the license it would be exposed as a very boring and not very good game. I'm not a sports game fan but can have fun with a good sports game. Love a few rounds of old school NHL, Madden, sensible soccer etc., but Fifa and the majority of its modern ilk just aren't fun. It's very telling that ISS/Pro Evo during it's best phase was getting good reviews and word of mouth because it was actually... you know, fun, yet still lost out massively to utterly **** iterations of Fifa.

pixelburp · 18-10-2019 3:54pm

ISS = International Superstar Soccer? Man I loved that series. ISS Deluxe was 'da bomb. Fun soccer games should be frenetic (does remind that I must have a look at Enter the Kickmen, which looks suitably barmy)

Retr0gamer · 18-10-2019 4:07pm

Yeah International Superstar Soccer Deluxe was insanely good fun. Wish sports games were that fast and fun again instead of just a bunch of stats and simulations that are nerdier than any RPG.

MOH · 18-10-2019 5:29pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's because they know they can barely update a game every year and their captive audience will be there day 1 to buy it again.

Also they know they don't even have to make the games fun as a game that plays well is the least important thing to sports game fans. If you stripped the likes of Fifa of the license it would be exposed as a very boring and not very good game. I'm not a sports game fan but can have fun with a good sports game. Love a few rounds of old school NHL, Madden, sensible soccer etc., but Fifa and the majority of its modern ilk just aren't fun. It's very telling that ISS/Pro Evo during it's best phase was getting good reviews and word of mouth because it was actually... you know, fun, yet still lost out massively to utterly **** iterations of Fifa.

That reminds me, I keep meaning to go back and check out some of recently added archive DOS games:
https://archive.org/details/msdos_Match_of_the_Day_Bundesliga_1994
https://archive.org/details/msdos_Sensible_World_of_Soccer_1995

Although I do expect to be disappointed, suspect the nostalgia may not hold up.

Retr0gamer · 18-10-2019 9:09pm

As someone that doesn't like football games, sensible world of soccer is still amazing.

18-10-2019 9:15pm

Fifa peaked with its road to world cup 98 game.

I must give sensi a go at some point. Any particular system to play it on or are the ports all fairly similar?

pixelburp · 18-10-2019 9:19pm

Seems to me like the uptick in graphics doomed the arcade soccer game; games simply didn't have the horsepower to recreate footie accurately so tended towards boiled down abstracted versions; as graphics allowed more "realism" the games leant more into artless simulations, and the promise of accurate kits or player models. Kinda the same with most sports games in fact, graphical fidelity neutering the core fun of previous generations' games.

RobertFoster · 18-10-2019 9:28pm

Cake of Tremendous Power wrote: »

Fifa peaked with its road to world cup 98 game.

[Song 2 intensifies]

Mr Crispy · 19-10-2019 3:15pm

Crusader Kings III announced at PDXCon.

pixelburp · 19-10-2019 6:45pm

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

Crusader Kings III announced at PDXCon.

Christ I hope they've hired a UX and interface designer, or someone at least to refine the experience. Can't think of a more prominent, popular game with a more labyrinthine, impenetrable way of playing.

Canis Lupus · 20-10-2019 1:00am

pixelburp wrote: »

Seems to me like the uptick in graphics doomed the arcade soccer game; games simply didn't have the horsepower to recreate footie accurately so tended towards boiled down abstracted versions; as graphics allowed more "realism" the games leant more into artless simulations, and the promise of accurate kits or player models. Kinda the same with most sports games in fact, graphical fidelity neutering the core fun of previous generations' games.

Give me NBA Jam any day.

Doge · 20-10-2019 2:16pm

Interesting video on how VR can improve your own performance in games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T7mg6JZZzg

Part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j_fp5L8Si8

J. Marston · 22-10-2019 12:27am

In edgelord news....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pae3JCyFgLs

Features the protagonist punching a bound pregnant woman in the stomach a few times before ripping the fetus out through her vagina and then drinking the blood from the fetus' neck.

Then we get to see the protagonist have some quick sex, including flaccid to erect penis action, before she claws out his throat.

It looks shìte also.

ZiabR · 22-10-2019 8:52am

That looks so bad. I'll pass.

Penn · 22-10-2019 8:56am

J. Marston wrote: »

Features the protagonist punching a bound pregnant woman in the stomach a few times before ripping the fetus out through her vagina and then drinking the blood from the fetus' neck.

Then we get to see the protagonist have some quick sex, including flaccid to erect penis action, before she claws out his throat.

Keep politics out of games!

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