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Circular Number: 0037/2020

12357…13

Comments

  • #202
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    Can I ask a question about FORM A-it says Programme LCE/LCVP and Then LCA. Which do you tick for the Ordinary LC? Leaving Cert??

    LCE is Leaving Cert Exam- tick this one for higher/ordinary/foundation levels for regular LC

    LCA for Leaving Cert Applied


  • #203
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Our ETB getting its claws into process already.

    Can't use Zoom for meeting.

    Can't have meeting til next week.

    Blah blah blah


  • #204
    ethical
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ethical


    Not surprised! Some ETBs have carried on disgracefully during the past 12 weeks.I get the feeling they do not trust their teaching staff! Shame on them!


  • #205
    JD3112
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭JD3112


    Anyone know the story about LCAs who don't sit an exam?

    They usually get credits awarded for completion of modules. I would have already awarded those credits to Year 6 students (when they were in Year 5).

    Year 5 students would have been awarded them in May 2020.

    Form A & B have estimated % mark and nothing about credits (which would either be 0, 1 or 2 for my subject)

    Doesn't make sense to me that I would use Form A & B in this context???


  • #206
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    JD3112 wrote: »
    Anyone know the story about LCAs who don't sit an exam?

    They usually get credits awarded for completion of modules. I would have already awarded those credits to Year 6 students (when they were in Year 5).

    Year 5 students would have been awarded them in May 2020.

    Form A & B have estimated % mark and nothing about credits (which would either be 0, 1 or 2 for my subject)

    Doesn't make sense to me that I would use Form A & B in this context???

    The school is supposed to use the usual procedure for submitting module credits.


  • #207
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    What about kids who are on the roll but have never turned Up? In LC


  • #208
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    I think the fact teachers don't automatically get to see percentage of students' state exam results is now a big disadvantage. Coming up with a specific percentage is not an easy task with no concrete information on exactly what similar past students achieved. I don't know how common it is for students to seek out or share this information in other schools. But in 12 years in my last school, just 4 students viewed a Maths paper and none appealed.


  • #209
    ngunners
    Registered Users Posts: 637 ✭✭✭ngunners


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    What about kids who are on the roll but have never turned Up? In LC

    Would imagine you can't predict a grade for someone you've never seen?


  • #210
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    ngunners wrote: »
    Would imagine you can't predict a grade for someone you've never seen?

    If they are excluded from the ranking, but such students would usually turn up to sit the exam, then it could skew the standardisation. Always a few of these in any OL or FL class I've taught. 4-6 per year group. Could have an impact if not included in the rank. But I agree, could you really sign off on a grade for them?


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  • #211
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Out of interest when people here meeting depts?


  • #212
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Just listening to the video here now. Waste of time. "Transact" appears to be the current buzz word. The assessments that couldn't transact in June. The principal will assist teachers with arrangements to transact that meeting. What planet are these people on?!

    I found all the long pauses a little disconcerting - has it crashed? Is the sound gone? - they should consult the SEC on the art of announcing pauses with long beeps. The last line was particularly weird: "thank you for your attention"............................."to this video". (Just in case you weren't sure what you were being thanked for). Easy know whoever produced that hasn't been honing their remote teaching skills over the past 11 weeks!


  • #213
    amacca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,103 ✭✭✭amacca


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Our principal sent us a copy of the documentation the students got this morning about registering on the portal for calculated grades. They have until Thursday to do it.



    In the FAQs at the end of the document it says

    So they can find out how they were ranked and their estimated percentage the day they get the results?? I thought they could just check clerical work/if data was entered correctly etc etc.........thats a bit **** tbh........imo anyway......i thought at the very least they would have to go through a gdpr request 30 days after results out.


  • #214
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,463 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Has anyone been given a deadlime by their principal for when this is to be done?


  • #215
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    amacca wrote: »
    So they can find out how they were ranked and their estimated percentage the day they get the results?? I thought they could just check clerical work/if data was entered correctly etc etc.........thats a bit **** tbh........imo anyway......i thought at the very least they would have to go through a gdpr request 30 days after results out.

    I presume the appeal will be a straightforward enough process. If the mark the teacher has given is the same as the one the DES gives, or at least generates the same grade, then it's game over.

    If the grade the teacher has given it's different to the final one awarded by the DES, then a student might invoke the appeal procedure.

    I'd also imagine that as the marks were given online last year along with their grades they are following that process for this set up. Given the nature of grade calculation the last thing the DES want is for there to be accusations of cloak and dagger stuff, the process needs to be transparent.


  • #216
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    History Queen wrote: »
    Has anyone been given a deadlime by their principal for when this is to be done?

    What's the opposite of a deadline? Ours trying to drag it out and hold us for as long as they can


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  • #217
    Treppen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Treppen


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    I presume the appeal will be a straightforward enough process. If the mark the teacher has given is the same as the one the DES gives, or at least generates the same grade, then it's game over.

    If the grade the teacher has given it's different to the final one awarded by the DES, then a student might invoke the appeal procedure.

    I'd also imagine that as the marks were given online last year along with their grades they are following that process for this set up. Given the nature of grade calculation the last thing the DES want is for there to be accusations of cloak and dagger stuff, the process needs to be transparent.



    Will student be able to see teacher input grade & des final output simultaneously?

    I really doubt they'd immediately publish all discrepancies.

    Plus it might actually show the DES tweeking grades in certain socio economic areas!


    Let a Gdpr request to the school deter the messers for a week or so till the dust settles.

    I really can't see this ending well.


  • #218
    Treppen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Plus.... in your school Who enters the final grade onto the system?


  • #219
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Treppen wrote: »
    Will student be able to see teacher input grade & des final output simultaneously?

    I really doubt they'd immediately publish all discrepancies.

    Plus it might actually show the DES tweeking grades in certain socio economic areas!


    Let a Gdpr request to the school deter the messers for a week or so till the dust settles.

    I really can't see this ending well.

    It'll have to be a fast enough turn around if they plan on doing the CAO offers as normal and allowing colleges to get started.


  • #220
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Treppen wrote: »
    Plus.... in your school Who enters the final grade onto the system?

    The document allows for somebody to be given a job (paid but rates not specified) to help principal with process. In reality I'd say forms will be handed to secretary to punch them in


  • #221
    JDMC2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 106 ✭✭JDMC2


    I'd say forms will be handed to secretary to punch them in

    Are the hard copies not being sent to DES?


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  • #222
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    JDMC2 wrote: »
    Are the hard copies not being sent to DES?

    They go into ppod i think. Be easier for school to hold forms?


  • #223
    amacca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,103 ✭✭✭amacca


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    I presume the appeal will be a straightforward enough process. If the mark the teacher has given is the same as the one the DES gives, or at least generates the same grade, then it's game over.

    If the grade the teacher has given it's different to the final one awarded by the DES, then a student might invoke the appeal procedure.

    I'd also imagine that as the marks were given online last year along with their grades they are following that process for this set up. Given the nature of grade calculation the last thing the DES want is for there to be accusations of cloak and dagger stuff, the process needs to be transparent.

    In that case I'd question the need for them to see the ranking. That's needlessly divisive imo


  • #224
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    amacca wrote: »
    In that case I'd question the need for them to see the ranking. That's needlessly divisive imo

    I'd agree with this, "why did they finish ahead of me?"


  • #225
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    JDMC2 wrote: »
    Are the hard copies not being sent to DES?

    It says principal to retain the forms until appeals process concluded. Data input through Esinet.


  • #226
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    In my view the whole process is being rushed.


  • #227
    Bananaleaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    Can I just clarify - the training that the department said we were getting .... that's the guidelines, yeah? There hasn't been anything else, am I right?

    Also - had a very interesting phonecall with a TUI representative. He either didn't know what he was talking about or he lied outright to me, but he assured me "100%" that the mark I award each individual is the "exact mark they get in the LC." He told me that our principals can ask us to review the mark, but ultimately we have the final say and yes, the mark we assign is the mark they get, right down to the percentage.

    Extremely at odds with the guidelines, which state:

    "The mark assigned by the school is not necessarily the final mark that the student will receive" :rolleyes:


  • #228
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    TUI FAQ was sent out this evening.

    Students who submit a data access request will see their school generated percentage mark and a redacted Form B with just their own rank in the class.

    It also specifically cautions against relying on averages or any type of mathematical calculation.


  • #229
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Bananaleaf wrote: »
    Can I just clarify - the training that the department said we were getting .... that's the guidelines, yeah? There hasn't been anything else, am I right?

    There's also a great video.


  • #230
    Treppen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Treppen


    amacca wrote: »
    In that case I'd question the need for them to see the ranking. That's needlessly divisive imo

    I was thinking about the need to know your ranking in terms of personal data etc. As a teacher i think youre entitled to it after interviews etc. so sauce for the goose and all that.

    Although it's a lot different comparing Adults with Teenagers, whatever about measuring yourself amongst other job applicants and some fellow colleagues, being ranked with friends or enimies or people you never associate with in a class must be horrible. I hope at the very most the student just sees their own place in the ranking and that's it.


  • #231
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Look there are people dying with Covid. Its a farcical system. Give your reasonable guess-but be generous because in our brave educational world-its pity the children and lower standards.


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  • #232
    Treppen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    In my view the whole process is being rushed.

    Rip the bandage and be done with it. No matter what grade you pick you are on a hiding to nothing.

    It's just a horrible position and goes against everything we as teachers value about trying your best for your students and sending them into the exam on their own to do their best.

    Why the **** didn't FG just hold the line for another 2 months, more about media optics and votes. 'By hook or by crook' me proverbial.


  • #233
    Bananaleaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    Legend Numerous Fig wrote: »
    There's also a great video.

    Oh yes, I've just found it. Okay I will give that a watch now in a bit. Still trying to get my head round all of this.

    Am still grading and inputting third year results. I don't have non-exam year groups but colleagues who do are still teaching :eek:

    We had a staff meeting about the predicted grades today. Up until this point the party line has been "don't worry, we will guide you through this process"

    Today's motto? "You're professionals - use your judgement. You know best"


  • #234
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Bananaleaf wrote: »
    Oh yes, I've just found it. Okay I will give that a watch now in a bit. Still trying to get my head round all of this.

    To avoid disappointment, just in case, the video is not in fact great. It's a waste of time.


  • #235
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Legend Numerous Fig wrote: »
    To avoid disappointment, just in case, the video is not in fact great. It's a waste of time.

    Fair review :)


  • #236
    Bananaleaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    Sing along to the tune of 7 days by Craig David (I know :o )

    Did my predicted grading training on Monday,
    Started guessing grades on Tuesday,
    We were filling out form As by Wednesday,
    And Thursday and Friday and Saturday
    We got blind drunk on Sunday


  • #237
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Quick question from a primary teacher here. What happens to those students who don't register on the student portal?


  • #238
    Random sample
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭Random sample


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Quick question from a primary teacher here. What happens to those students who don't register on the student portal?

    Nothing?

    They need to register there in normal times anyway, but a lot of them would have support from the guidance counsellors with it.


  • #239
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Quick question from a primary teacher here. What happens to those students who don't register on the student portal?

    Every student gets assessed regardless. Before they receive their result they have to agree to opt in to the process


  • #240
    ngunners
    Registered Users Posts: 637 ✭✭✭ngunners


    Legend Numerous Fig wrote: »
    To avoid disappointment, just in case, the video is not in fact great. It's a waste of time.

    Half way through the video now (played at 1.5 speed). It’s basically just a rehash of the guidelines. Did I miss something or does it provide no added value?


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  • #241
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    ngunners wrote: »
    Half way through the video now (played at 1.5 speed). It’s basically just a rehash of the guidelines. Did I miss something or does it provide no added value?

    It's the document again only at a very slow pace, for those who struggle with reading I presume


  • #242
    km79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,254 ✭✭✭✭km79


    ngunners wrote: »
    Half way through the video now (played at 1.5 speed). It’s basically just a rehash of the guidelines. Did I miss something or does it provide no added value?

    You missed the bit where we said not to watch it for that reason :D


  • #243
    scrubs33
    Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭scrubs33


    km79 wrote: »
    You missed the bit where we said not to watch it for that reason :D

    I heard if you play it backwards you hear messages from senior sources...


  • #244
    Treppen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Treppen


    If you get a particularly strong year with high marks and it differs from previous LC grades, DES will look for the trend at JC.


  • #245
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    scrubs33 wrote: »
    I heard if you play it backwards you hear messages from senior sources...

    :pac::pac::pac:


  • #246
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Treppen wrote: »
    If you get a particularly strong year with high marks and it differs from previous LC grades, DES will look for the trend at JC.

    But sure there is a disconnect between JC and LC. It was always there-the gap but now bigger. Plus the first few years of any new Exam-they marked it easier.
    I look back at LC kids Jc results and I suspect the examiner was given LSD.
    I look forward to the lowering of levels at LC !

    Please Dont look for Logic or rationality in this System. For English-you can guess they might get over 55 but you have no real ideas how far they will get beyond that. Patricularly in Ord level and schools where attendance is quite irregular.


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  • #247
    happywithlife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭happywithlife


    jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »
    The document allows for somebody to be given a job (paid but rates not specified) to help principal with process. In reality I'd say forms will be handed to secretary to punch them in
    is this meant to be advertised amongst staff? We were just told who was doing it. Principal's best but and all


  • #248
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    happywithlife wrote: »
    is this meant to be advertised amongst staff? We were just told who was doing it. Principal's best but and all

    Not sure, if it was advertised it wud go to the same person anyway :)


  • #249
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,716 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Legend Numerous Fig wrote: »
    To avoid disappointment, just in case, the video is not in fact great. It's a waste of time.

    I'm really tempted to put it up on Rotten tomatoes and give it a critical review.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • #250
    LW2018
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭LW2018


    Has anybody heard of how schools are to deal with an external candidate who was registered to sit a subject in your school? Technically they aren't enrolled so would it still be acceptable to fill out a Form C for them?


  • #251
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    LW2018 wrote: »
    Has anybody heard of how schools are to deal with an external candidate who was registered to sit a subject in your school? Technically they aren't enrolled so would it still be acceptable to fill out a Form C for them?

    I suppose it depends on whether or not they have a teacher teaching them that subject.


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