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New DIT Campus - Grangegorman

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Moore Ruble Yudell are the main architects. I think they have a local firm here doing some work on it but i forget who it is

    http://www.moorerubleyudell.com/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 115 ✭✭shaddupayaface


    nowecant wrote: »
    Moore Ruble Yudell are the main architects. I think they have a local firm here doing some work on it but i forget who it is

    http://www.moorerubleyudell.com/

    Dmod


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Apparently the Environmental Health Science Institute will be the first part of DIT to be moved to Grangegorman.
    The Environmental Health Science Institute (EHSI) is a dedicated research institute within this theme and was established by DIT in partnership with the HSE and Dublin City Council.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0611/1224317672139.html

    The 2010 Annual report also says that a lot of work has been done on the DIT Business School and Library and these may be prime candidates for an early move.

    However as to which building is going to be built first I cannot tell. The names of the buildings on the planes are quite general and the EHSI could fit into any number of them

    http://www.grangegormandevelopmentagency.ie/assets/masterplan/MP_24_May_2008_Slide_36-41_Building_Layouts_and_Heights_A.pdf

    The Science buildings which I believe is the most likely is right in the center of the development, this could initially mean a very lonely existence for a few staff and students.

    But the views of the rest of the development taking place would be great.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    For a while now i have been thinking that the Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann Broadstone Garage will be stage 2 of the DIT development. I believe this is approximately 30 - 35 acres in size and would add significantly to the college in future. Though that may be 20 years or more.

    Many of the images in the plans on the GGDA website show concept buildings on this site, including the below 2 concepts for the Broadstone Gate.

    [IMG][/img]bg1ej.th.jpg

    [IMG][/img]bg2d.th.jpg

    While I understand this may be a long time coming the usefulness of this garage will be extremely limited once a larger proportion of students locate to this area and use this as a main entrance.

    The Luas BXD line is also going straight through the middle of the Garage as well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭BowWow


    zom wrote: »
    Anyone knows architect involved?

    James Mary O'Connor


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭BowWow


    BowWow wrote: »
    James Mary O'Connor

    Planning permission for the O'Connor's new house in Sutton.
    Fingal Referance - F11A/0319


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭BowWow


    BowWow wrote: »
    Planning permission for the O'Connor's new house in Sutton.
    Fingal Referance - F11A/0319

    Mr O'Connor now served with an order by Fingal Co Co to cease work on this house..........


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    BowWow wrote: »
    Mr O'Connor now served with an order by Fingal Co Co to cease work on this house..........

    Im not sure if that is relevant here, it could be for a number of reasons unless you care to elaborate and only if you can demonstrate that is has something to do with DIT or Grangegorman


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    So DIT might not have to fund this on their own and move at a slower pace.

    Irish Times
    The departments of Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn and Minister for Health James Reilly will also benefit. The postponed Dublin Institute of Technology (DIT) campus at Grangegorman is certain to get the go-ahead.

    DIT operates on a number of different sites around the capital and the intention is to establish a centralised campus on the north side.

    After a proposal to sanction proceeding with the development had gone to Cabinet, Mr Howlin visited the site where progress had effectively stalled last Friday, with local TDs Labour’s Joe Costello, Minister of State for Trade and Development, and Fine Gael’s Paschal Donohoe.

    The Luas extension that will benefit the facility was one of the few projects to survive last year’s drastic clampdown on capital spending.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0717/breaking2.html

    The Score
    The go-ahead for the DIT campus comes just eight months after it was deferred as part of the announcement of the Infrastructure and Capital Investment programme from 2012 to 2016.

    Speaking to RTÉ Radio ahead of the cabinet meeting this morning, Education Minister Ruairí Quinn said that it “makes more sense” to build the DIT campus in one place rather than upgrade the 33 different DIT sites around the capital.

    http://www.thescore.ie/stimulus-dit-grangegorman-roads-infrastructure-523368-Jul2012/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭BowWow


    nowecant wrote: »
    Im not sure if that is relevant here, it could be for a number of reasons unless you care to elaborate and only if you can demonstrate that is has something to do with DIT or Grangegorman

    There is a major difference between his plan, on which planning permission was granted, and what he has actually built! His new neighbours are in serious dispute with him - petitions signed etc. Fingal Co Co are in agreement with them.

    Hopefully the plans for DIT will be accurate........


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  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    RTE reports that the Luas BXD which goes through the new Grangegorman DIT campus has officially got the go ahead.

    A map can be seen here and Boards thread on Luas BXD here

    A stop called "Broadstone DIT" located at the front of the Bus garage off Constitution hill was always going to be built, a good location for the college and the local community.

    Another stop called DIT Grangegorman, to the North East of the development was always an option. I assume that this is now going ahead when they say ""A stop is also planned for the new DIT campus at Grangegorman""

    I don’t know yet if they are building both


    The Government has already announced it is committed to funding the estimated €370m cost of the project.

    Initial works are due to begin next year and passenger services are planned to start in 2017. The 6km BXDl line will extend the Green Line from St Stephen's Green through the city centre where it will link up with the Red Line at the junction of O'Connell St and Abbey St.

    It will then go to Broombridge near Cabra where it will link up with the Maynooth commuter rail line. A stop is also planned for the new DIT campus at Grangegorman a project which got approval for €180m worth of funding in the government's stimulus package.

    A number of city centre statues including Molly Malone at the bottom of Grafton St will have to be removed and kept in storage while works take place.

    The board decided that the Luas BXD line would not interfere with future development of the Metro North and Underground DART projects.

    It also decided to allow the line to run with overhead cables through the core city centre area despite concerns expressed by Dublin City Council that these would be "visually intrusive".

    It also decided that Dawson St north bound stop be omitted as it could cause traffic congestion.

    The planning permission for LUAS BXD will last for seven years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Evening Herald Article on the new campus here. Nothing new really though.
    Vision for e500m DIT campus is under way

    DUBLIN'S new €500m "urban quarter" in Grangegorman and its third level campus is taking shape after a series of "green lights".

    The project was boosted by the announcement of the Government's €2bn stimulus package, which saw the project getting an immediate start.

    The new Luas Broombridge line, which will serve the new campus, was also given the go ahead from An Bord Pleanala this month.

    Michael Hand, chief executive of the Grangegorman Development Agency (GDA) said: "We intend to bring 20,000 students to the Dublin 7 area.

    "But we also want others to come and experience the new urban quarter in Grangegorman."

    Work will now start on preserving and restoring a number of listed buildings on the site and the building of a new health science research facility for 1,000 students.

    Another 10,000 students will arrive by 2017, with the completion of the central and east quads, which are public private partnerships.

    "Physical" work on the Grangegorman project is already well under way with the building of the new Mental Health Replacement facility for the Health Service Executive, the GDA said.

    The new building is due to be completed later this year.

    Pipeline

    The plan to move 39 Dublin Institute of Technology facilities situated around Dublin into one campus has been in the pipeline for nearly 10 years.

    The project involves development on part of the 75 acres of grounds of St Brendan's psychiatric hospital.

    Dublin Labour MEP Emer Costello said a unified DIT campus was "terrific news" for Irish education and jobs.

    DIT had over 20,000 students and 2,000 staff in six faculties scattered in different sites around the city, making it "a logistical nightmare" for students and staff.

    "A single campus is long overdue and will help to make DIT one of the finest third level educational institutions in the world," she said.

    mlavery@herald.ie

    - Michael Lavery


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    As announced on the Grangegorman Development authority Facebook page
    The first planning application under the Grangegorman Planning Scheme has just been lodged with Dublin City Council, and it is a big one. Site Infrastructure and Public Realm. 5 week period for observations now begins. Well done to all involved.

    The planning application are....

    Application Reference: 3335/12
    Description: Protected Structure: construction of 15.90Ha of public realm/site infrastructure
    Location:St. Brendan's Hospital Site, Grangegorman, Dublin 7
    Or click here
    This is for ground works on the site


    Application Reference: 3336/12
    Description: Protected Structure : demolition of 16 no Structures, within large site....
    Location: St. Brendan's Hospital Site, Grangegorman, Dublin 7
    Or click Here
    This is for the demolition of 16 structures on the site to make way for the new buildings


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Hopefully Mr O'Connors plans for DIT will be more accurate than those he did for his house.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    BowWow wrote: »
    Hopefully Mr O'Connors plans for DIT will be more accurate than those he did for his house.

    BowWow what is your argument here?

    This is your second time asserting this, there was really no need, we got your point the first time.

    You give no reason as to why he has been asked to stop working on his house, this could be for a number of reasons including a genuine mistake, a mistake by the builders, a complaint by a neighbor.... founded or unfounded.

    Or... he maybe breached planning laws.

    What ever your personal grudge here it has nothing to do with your statement. The plans were accurate and were agreed to by the council, his building (if your statement is correct) was not to the specifications or the plans. Plans once agreed to, right or wrong are by their nature accurate.

    As regards the new DIT Campus, the plans have been years in development, have been made publically available in numerous locations around the city. They have the input of multiple local residence organizations and have representatives from those local committees advising the development organization. These plans as agreed to by everyone involved are also accurate.

    What is occurring now is the publishing of the smaller individual aspects of the development. Putting forward as it were how the development is going to proceed.

    All of this does not include the fact that both Dublin City Council and An Bord Pleanála have approved the making of these Planning Schemes for the Grangegorman Strategic Development Zone (SDZ) The public, including yourself, now have the opportunity to comment on these plans.

    However getting back to your above statement, this is dangerously close to trolling, it has no place here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Background -
    He bought the original house/site.
    He sent in plans. They were approved - no issues with the neighbours.
    House built. Neighbours surprised that finished house is 5 feet higher that the houses on either side of him, when the "perspective" with the plans showed his new house would be the same height.
    Neighbours approach him to discuss - told that they should be pleased he's created this president! It was a simple draftman's error. Other remarks about how things are done in America;)
    Meetings with Fingal Co Council - eventually allowed retain the building.

    My point -
    If he cant be trusted to get the plans right for a two storey dwelling, can he get the plans right for a multi million Euro project?

    Agenda -
    Mine? Yes, I have one - Unfortunately I'm a neighbour!
    Yours nowecant?


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Background -
    He bought the original house/site.
    He sent in plans. They were approved - no issues with the neighbours.
    House built. Neighbours surprised that finished house is 5 feet higher that the houses on either side of him, when the "perspective" with the plans showed his new house would be the same height.
    Neighbours approach him to discuss - told that they should be pleased he's created this president! It was a simple draftman's error. Other remarks about how things are done in America
    Meetings with Fingal Co Council - eventually allowed retain the building.

    That shouldn't have happened and if what you say here is correct (and I assume it is) then he was wrong. As an experienced architect and someone who presumably knows the ins and outs of planning I find it unlikely that this was a mistake. He should have been made to correct it.
    My point -
    If he cant be trusted to get the plans right for a two story dwelling, can he get the plans right for a multi million Euro project?

    While I agree what happened above is wrong. The planning oversight in this is a lot more stringent that in a private dwelling, multiple architects and architects firms and a lot of public scrutiny (including here) not to mention clients who have been fighting for this development for decades and various government bodies including the GGDA who can be held responsible.

    Yes there may be mistakes/changes to the plan as envisioned right now as the development takes place, and hopefully these will all be done through the correct planning routes. The difference is that where his "mistake" on his private house was to directly benefit him, any mistake made here does not benefit him or his firm at all.
    Agenda -
    Mine? Yes, I have one - Unfortunately I'm a neighbour!

    Sorry to hear that you were affected. As I said above this should not have happened and should be changed.
    Yours nowecant?

    Former student of DIT and I live in the area.

    I believe DIT has been treated like a cousin with Tourette Syndrome in Irish third level education. This development will hopefully help balance the playing field for what is Ireland largest educational institution and who provide education to people at every level of society from FAS courses to PhDs

    I also think we have to move on from this as problems may arise from mentioning a particular individual and what he is pertained to have done. Your point is made and noted however.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    The DIT Newspaper has a nice article about the work starting
    Demolition work to clear the way for DIT’s single campus in Grangegorman is due to start in the new year, and the site will be ready to take students by 2014.

    The Grangegorman Development Agency (GDA) lodged the first planning notice for DIT’s unified campus with Dublin City Council earlier this month. 16 buildings on the site of St. Brendan’s psychiatric hospital are to be knocked down to make way for services and campus infrastructure like footpaths, lights, benches and playing fields.

    Spokesperson for the GDA, Ronan Doyle, told The Edition they hoped to have over 1,000 DIT students studying on the site by 2014. The agency will refurbish a number of protected buildings on the site to accommodate this group, which will include Fine Arts students from Mountjoy Square.

    The first new buildings are due to be completed in 2017 through a public-private partnership. A Central Quad will be the first set of buildings to be completed, housing about 10,000 students from tourism, food and science departments. This means half of DIT’s students will be in Grangegorman in five years’ time.

    “Things are happening now,” Mr. Doyle said. “We’re very much up and running.” The GDA’s plans for the site became the basis of a Strategic Development Zone after approval came from An Bórd Pleanála last May. “All of the appeals were sorted and the document effectively became a formal development plan,” said Mr. Doyle. “It gives a great sense of security to the project.”

    The Broombridge Luas extension, which is planned to serve Grangegorman, also got the go-ahead from an Bórd Pleanála in August.

    Initial demolition work will begin early next year, but the changing rooms used by a number of DIT sports clubs are to remain in place longer.

    This should allay fears expressed by Stephen Brandon, captain of DIT Caving Club, which is one of several groups that regularly use facilities in Grangegorman. “That’s the first I’ve heard of it,” he said, when told about the demolition notice last week. “I hope they don’t drive a bulldozer through our equipment store without telling us!”

    Im glad the Mountjoy students are among the first to be moved as they are woefully lacking in decent services up there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,039 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Following on from the recent opening of the Phoenix Care Centre at Grangegorman, the Grangegorman Development Agency are now seeking tenders for the refurbishment of Structure 12 (Laundry Building) on the campus to form a Primary Care Centre. More details on this project here and here. The news section of the GDA website also contains info on the appointment of legal advisors for PPP project and also recent planning applications. It is good to see further progress being made with regard to developing the site.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 94 ✭✭aodhan2


    Did anyone reading this thread attend the meeting in the last few days where local residents met with builders and developers? I belive the contracts were awarded on the pretense of providing 25% employment to local residents. Apparently a tyrone builder has the contract and he is to use all his own workers. Im looking to find info regarding this and who is answerable,but if true its a disgrace .


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    aodhan2 wrote: »
    the contracts were awarded on the pretense of providing 25% employment to local residents.
    Might be easier said than done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 Arbutus


    aodhan2 wrote: »
    Did anyone reading this thread attend the meeting in the last few days where local residents met with builders and developers? I belive the contracts were awarded on the pretense of providing 25% employment to local residents. Apparently a tyrone builder has the contract and he is to use all his own workers. Im looking to find info regarding this and who is answerable,but if true its a disgrace .

    The meeting held on 30th April was to introduce the Phase 1 demolitions contractor to the local community and discuss this contract only. At the meeting the Grangegorman Local Employment Charter was discussed, which aims at 25% local employment regarding new positions for any contract. All contractors come with a core staff but new positions arise as part of the contract. The Employment Charter states that the Contractor will advertise all new positions with the Local Employment Service and will aim to achieve 25% local employment for new positions.

    Obviously with the Grangegorman project being such a large development local people are anxious to see local jobs being created. This is a key aim of the project but the Development Agency must also work within European procurement and competition law in trying to achieve this.

    The Employment Charter is at http://www.ggda.ie/reports.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    In case no one has seen it here is a video of what the proposed Broadstone Gate will look like



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    Is the bridge passed under around the :40 mark the access road to Broadstone bus depot? That's unfortunate, in reality that will mar the area somewhat, big diesel buses towering over you, or idling waiting to get in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Is the bridge passed under around the :40 mark the access road to Broadstone bus depot? That's unfortunate, in reality that will mar the area somewhat, big diesel buses towering over you, or idling waiting to get in.


    From my reading of the plans it is to allow Bus Eireann who occupy the northern part of the depot access to the southern part (occupied by Dublin bus) and then to exit out to the road.

    AFAIK this is not envisioned as a long term solution, and it is hoped that eventually other uses may be sound for these two depots, possibly even as a stage two to the campus. I remember reading somewhere that the bridge was to be constructed in such a way as to make it easy to disassemble in future.

    If you take a look at all of the plans and pictures of the Grangegorman development they show buildings on both of these sites.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Here are some links to pics of the Broadstone gate entrance i posted a while back showing a concept for the temporary option and the long term plans
    nowecant wrote: »

    [IMG][/img]bg1ej.th.jpg

    [IMG][/img]bg2d.th.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Would be interested to know what people think on what this will mean for neighbouring areas....

    Do folks think that Phibsborough Cabra or Stoneybatter will change in any major way because of this? In terms of new business, amenities etc.....

    My thinking is: I look at DCU......and i think about Collins Avenue, North Glasnevin etc.....and I try to see what difference it has made to the local area......and the answer as far as I can see is Sweet FA......


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    nowecant wrote: »
    Here are some links to pics of the Broadstone gate entrance i posted a while back showing a concept for the temporary option and the long term plans


    What are the big glass buildings in the video and in that photo, just behind the train stop?

    Is that part of the college? I thought the college was going to be within the current site of Grangegorman.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    nowecant wrote: »
    From my reading of the plans it is to allow Bus Eireann who occupy the northern part of the depot access to the southern part (occupied by Dublin bus) and then to exit out to the road.

    AFAIK this is not envisioned as a long term solution, and it is hoped that eventually other uses may be sound for these two depots, possibly even as a stage two to the campus. I remember reading somewhere that the bridge was to be constructed in such a way as to make it easy to disassemble in future.

    If you take a look at all of the plans and pictures of the Grangegorman development they show buildings on both of these sites.

    Fair enough,looking at the BXD plans, this is the elevation that will be built starting in the next few weeks, BXD is definitely going ahead at this stage.

    9ZOMBSo.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    What are the big glass buildings in the video and in that photo, just behind the train stop?

    Is that part of the college? I thought the college was going to be within the current site of Grangegorman.....

    All the current plans are for inside the existing Grangegorman campus.

    However some of the plans and videos do show additional buildings on the two bus garages. It is possible that these have just been added to make the images look better but i believe (from all the information available) that the eventual aim is for both the garages to move to another green field location outside the city so that these two sites can be developed as part of the campus. (Hopefully) The old train station would make an excellent concert venue / theatre similar to the Helix in DCU. Some on campus accommodation would also make a serious difference to the college and to the area.

    As for the difference DIT will make to the area i think it will be significant and for the better. Unlike DCU this is a city centre campus where there are a large range of local amenities already available. Its a short walk from the city and i believe that it will have a good active social scene. The college will also provide a lot of employment and opportunities.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    There's a scale model and large maps of the broad stone gate in the atrium of DCC civic offices. It's a current Part 8 application IIRC.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    An idea of what the new Broadstone Luas stop (which is pretty much part of the Broadstone gate) is meant to look like. Work on this is meant to be commencing this morning. However that has been some recent trouble in moving the Maxoil garage. More on the topic over at the Luas thread

    Broadstone_1.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    I think the DIT should move to a single venue - and grangegorman is fine, pity originally when setting up NIHE/DCU they didnt merge them all into one which was the NIHE's original remit.
    Cost is a major issue - i often think the CDVEC (or whatever its rebranded as) and DIT moved up towards university status and education and away from its trades and certificates etc. which may not have been the great thing it seemed before the fas fiasco.
    The unified campus should result in reduced admin costs over a varied campus the DIT and CDVEC is a massive expense on the tax payer and should look at reducing costs being more efficient and commercialising the new campus with private funding centralising admin should help so - however i fear it wont


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Four years before less then half of DIT students can call Grangegorman home.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/developers-sought-for-200-million-dit-campus-at-grangegorman-1.1511290

    Developers sought for €200 million DIT campus at Grangegorman
    Dublin Institute of Technology is to move to central campus from 2017
    The National Development Finance Agency is looking for a developer to build a €200 million campus at Grangegorman for the Dublin Institute of Technology.
    More than a decade after plans for a centralised campus for the largest third-level institution in the State were first announced, the agency has given notice of its intention to begin a public-private partnership process and is asking developers to lodge expressions of interest.
    The DIT currently is spread throughout the city centre on 39 separate sites. With 20,000 full- and part-time students, it accounts for close to 10 per cent of all students in higher education in Ireland.
    The move to the 50-acre site on part of the former St Brendan’s Hospital grounds is happening in stages and is due to be completed by 2020.
    The PPP contract will be for the design, building, finance and maintenance of two “quads” to accommodate 15 existing teaching schools of the institute.
    The Central Quad, at about 34,000sq m of internal space, will accommodate about 6,400 students and 450 staff. It will house the schools of science, engineering, maths, computing, culinary arts and hospitality management and will have specialist areas including laboratories, professional kitchens, training restaurants, workshops, teaching space and staff offices.

    Creative industries
    The East Quad will be about half the size, with 16,000sq m of space for 3,100 students and 250 staff. It has been designated as the creative and cultural industries quad and will accommodate the schools of music, media, languages, social science and law, and art, design and printing.
    The facilities will provide specialist areas such as performance spaces, media and computer rooms, musical practice and rehearsal rooms, art and design studios, workshops, teaching spaces, and staff offices.
    The current plan is to have up to half of the 20,000 students on campus by 2017, when it is expected to be served by the new cross-city Luas line.
    Interested developers will be invited to an information day on September 9th, but contracts are unlikely to be awarded until mid-2015.
    Plans for the site were first put forward in the late 1990s. At the time it was thought much of the project could be funded by selling off DIT colleges but the downturn in property prices forced the institute to look to the exchequer for initial funding.

    Severe setback
    The DIT’s plans suffered a setback in November 2011 when it was one of the major projects, along with Metro North, to lose the commitment of Government funding.
    However, Michael Hand, the chief executive of the Grangegorman Development Agency, said at the time the development would still go ahead.
    The project got a boost in May last year when it received permission from An Bord Pleanála.
    Two months later it was announced by Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform Brendan Howlin as the “flagship” project of the Government’s €2.25 billion infrastructure stimulus package.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    In case anyone wants to know how the Central and Eastern Quads fit into the overall development you can see them on a map on the GGDA Facebook page here https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151365820491413&set=a.10151365820471413.527378.382314786412&type=1&theater

    The Environmental Health Science Building is meant to be starting construction soon if it has not already as it is meant to be open by 2015


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    Of course the plan looks impressive.
    However i fear the cost will spiral
    I like the idea that there is an entrance from Broadstone, I think its proximity to the Kings Inns maybe a chance of cooperation with the DIT law school.

    I agree such developments dont necessarily deliver benefits to the local area - you may argue has ballymun benefited from DCU, does Pearse Street benefit from Trinity etc.

    However I contend that there is benefits to be had from location of a 3rd level institute in an area. Of course there is the benefit of extra commerce, shops, cafes, and pubs do well, accommodation prices go up around the area, better public transport(BXD line), employment opportunities in the development and due to increased business.

    Community involvement has to be considered - outreach progammes, community use of facilities for local clubs, arts groups etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Not good.

    This could seriously delay both the broadstone gate and the Luas line

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0404/606784-maxol-considers-legal-action-over-dublin-site/

    Maxol considers legal action in dispute over Dublin site

    Maxol Oil Company is considering legal action in a dispute over a one acre site in the North of Dublin that has threatened both the Luas Cross City and DIT Grangegorman projects.

    Maxol refused to move its filling station at Broadstone which was earmarked for a Luas stop and an entrance to the new DIT campus after an alternative site could not be agreed.

    Dublin City Council is now proposing to build around the station to allow for a construction of the Broadstone campus entrance consisting of a plaza along with separate car, pedestrian and cycle entrances.

    However, Maxol Chief Executive Tom Noonan said the company is considering its legal options over the works, which will he says "wipe out a high volume site".

    He said Maxol had agreed three years ago to move but Dublin City Council had been unable to provide a site of similar quality.

    Mr Noonan says the council is effectively making a compulsory purchase order with the works now being proposed.

    Maxol have submitted an observation objecting to the part eight development proposal.

    The site is earmarked for a stop on the new Cross City Luas line which is required to be in place by 2017 as part of DIT Grangegorman's planning permission.

    The Luas Cross City project which will link Cabra to St Stephen's Green as well as connecting the Green and Red lines will cost over €380m and create 800 construction jobs.

    DIT Grangegorman is a €200m project which will eventually accommodate all the different DIT colleges on one site catering for 20,000 students with half that number planned to be there by 2017.

    However,both projects have been threatened by the dispute over the Maxol filling station covering around one acre of land.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Would it be prohibitively expensive to just CPO the site?


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    I'm not sure but probably in the scale of both the Luas and DIT Grangegorman developments no.

    I think this is just a failing of DCC who dropped the ball here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Maxol were offered a site in Coolock, which afaik they were happy with. Then Coolock residents complained that the site was too near a school, and the Council relented. Back to square one.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    I heard about this. Firstly did the residents force the council or did the council just relent? Obviously the residents views are important but i remember when looking this up at the time there seemed to be sufficient distance between the two.

    Why did the council only have one possible alternative site?

    This development has been in the pipeline for years. One would think that a major issue such as this should have been sorted already.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    I'm pretty sure it was just a case of Nimbyism. Like you, I remember looking up the site in the past and imo there wasn't major grounds for protest. At any rate, aren't most petrol stations near at least one school?

    As for having only one possible site - I'm just going off the top of my head, but between land that the Council already own, necessity for frontage on a busy road (generally), appropriate zoning, and there being enough business nearby, I can imagine that narrows down the options a bit.... even to a single site. Remeber Maxol is a private company being asked to essentially do the Council a favour. Just because they're an international company, it doesn't mean that they're under any more or less obligation to move than if it had been a family-run business.

    I think the protesting residents in Coolock shot themselves in the foot a bit on this one. They lost out on an amenity (petrol station) that really wouldn't have been at odds with existing surrounding uses, an employment generator, and increases economic activity in a generally poor area. What's not to like!


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    It raises an interesting question, is there publicly available list of DCC owned buildings/land? or even better a map? I would have thought there would be a significant amount available, but thats only an assumption. Perhaps a biggers site that would have allowed them to expand the business, better shop car wash etc could have compensated for a slightly lower passing trade. If i remember right a lot of the money in petrol is in secondary sales.

    Remeber Maxol is a private company being asked to essentially do the Council a favour. Just because they're an international company, it doesn't mean that they're under any more or less obligation to move than if it had been a family-run business.

    Very true. I wonder will they or can they object to a CPO?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Don't forget Maxol will be eyeing up all the sales from the students as well. That would be worth a lot to them in future sales too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Don't forget Maxol will be eyeing up all the sales from the students as well. That would be worth a lot to them in future sales too.

    As far as I remember, the shop on that site is either miniscule or non-existant. Its not some big modern station with a huge deli like the one near IT Sligo that is utterly mobbed 5 days a week.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭D Trent


    MYOB wrote: »
    As far as I remember, the shop on that site is either miniscule or non-existant. Its not some big modern station with a huge deli like the one near IT Sligo that is utterly mobbed 5 days a week.

    No it's a tiny shop


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    D Trent wrote: »
    No it's a tiny shop

    It is tiny. You would imagine DCC would have similar vacant sites right across the city.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Well it has got worse.

    This has all the signs of something that could take years to sort

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0407/607371-grangegorman-dit/
    DCC backs new access routes for DIT Grangegorman

    Dublin city councillors have given the go ahead for new access routes for the DIT Grangegorman development to be built around a site that Maxol has refused to vacate.

    Maxol has a petrol station on the site in Broadstone.

    It says the council failed to provide an alternative site.

    The company is now considering legal action, saying the proposed roadworks would "wipe out" the station’s business.

    The Rail Procurement Agency also has planning permission for a Luas stop on the site as part of the new cross-city line.

    The agency has instituted compulsory purchase order proceedings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    nowecant wrote: »
    Well it has got worse.

    This has all the signs of something that could take years to sort

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0407/607371-grangegorman-dit/

    The Rail Procurement Agency also has planning permission for a Luas stop on the site as part of the new cross-city line.

    The agency has instituted compulsory purchase order proceedings.

    Is that a CPO of the Maxol or just surrounding areas?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    I believe its just the Maxol, which may or may not include the old house immediately behind the station.

    The green area I believe is already owned by the council and/or Dublin Bus and Bus Eirean who have already agreed (reluctantly) to the development.


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