Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

L1011 · 01-12-2020 9:49pm

Nobody expects that IAG LOI to go anywhere.

HTCOne · 02-12-2020 12:26am

Not to mention cargo, 737s are bulk loaded, which tends to make them more attractive to LCCs with no real freight ops or Legacies big enough to have mixed fleets. The one place these Max were never going to end up was BA at LHR as their baggage system there is entirely containerised.

I was also always skeptical about this LOI going anywhere. It was signed at the height of the MAX crisis pre COVID, so the agreed price might have been cost or even below for Boeing to get a blue chip customer on board and steady stock market nerves. Then IAG could sit happy knowing it was up to Airbus to dig deep and match the offer if they wanted the order. It was also signed at a time where WW was taking every opportunity to bash Airbus over Neo delays and their impact on EI in particular. All this put together could have been IAG turning the screw on Airbus to make ammends.

Things have changed since the LOI was signed; production has been slashed but Airbus are ready to pile resources back into NEO production and have warned their suppliers to be ready, and they might be a lot easier to negotiate with than pre COVID. On the other hand if Airbus can't match the Max LOI pricing then IAG get 200 Max for pennies, in which case the savings up front offset the losses of running an inferior aircraft.

Avoation1091 · 02-12-2020 9:58pm

DUZ left SNN today after being in storage. Is it going back into service or longer term storage?

Jack1985 · 02-12-2020 10:11pm

Avoation1091 wrote: »

DUZ left SNN today after being in storage. Is it going back into service or longer term storage?

Back into service, operating EI178 DUB-LHR on Friday currently.

Shamrockj · 04-12-2020 4:10pm

New route commencing 01st of May 2021 Dublin to Santorini. Operating Wednesday and Saturday until September 25th. Hopefully the start of more to come .

Jack1985 · 04-12-2020 4:58pm

Dublin-Gran Canaria recommences once per week from Saturday 09/01, Lanzarote and Tenerife see ad-hoc increased capacity due to demand.

cson · 04-12-2020 5:16pm

Shamrockj wrote: »

New route commencing 01st of May 2021 Dublin to Santorini. Operating Wednesday and Saturday until September 25th. Hopefully the start of more to come .

Reacting to demand I imagine - wasn't Greece one of the only countries open for tourism last summer?

Probably some slack in the Grecian accommodation market from having no Americans, so they can price more attractively than they usually would.

Anyway, that flight is going to be the Instagram Express.

Avoation1091 · 04-12-2020 10:54pm

EI-LRE Spotted in Hamburg

Looks to be St Lassara.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/danraistrick/50680244781/in/photolist-2kdrv6P-2kdrv8c-2kdfcUB-2kd3khJ-2kd68tk-2kcYqoy-2kcZRVt-2kd4GNL-2kd58ua-2kd4GPN-2kcZS1i-2kcZRUr-2kd4GRg-2kd4GSD-2kcZRSh-2kcKbhT-2kcC8GY-2kcMTd5-2kd8gxd-2kd5qWZ-2kd5RsU-2kcfs51-2kceZP1-2kcqmkX-2kcBzRh-2kbKJgn-2kbJVLt-2kcpWB3-2kbFbQS-2kb9FCC-2kb7Az4-2kb85ib-2kb9cTe-2kckVzH-2kcRyTN-2kajKS9-2kajeQc-2kajGgU-2ka3Yvz-2ka2VTs-2kabSKv-2kabUp2-2k9J4iw-2kaUgQK-2kaQqXT-2k9Zucv-2k9Veob-2k9LHLz-2k9GTsU-2kbRhHs

Jack1985 · 04-12-2020 11:22pm

Aer Lingus will be making much deeper cuts from regional bases at Cork and Shannon than previously envisaged. Possibly up to 9 routes not operating next Summer from these airports and in total up to 3 aircraft potentially moving away from the bases, there is expected to be no European services ex-Shannon.

Expected that the only services relatively left unscathed will be ORK-AMS/LHR and SNN-BOS/LHR/JFK, however the latter will very much be market conditions dependent. It's unfortunate but the regional airports have a steep uphill battle for the next few years to restore these losses.

The focus is to restore the majority of DUB operations to the fullest extent possible for S21 by generating P2P demand (Sun routes) and additional transfer traffic to dually support the routes. Of course, as I always stress this is subject to change.

Van.Bosch · 05-12-2020 5:13pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

Aer Lingus will be making much deeper cuts from regional bases at Cork and Shannon than previously envisaged. Possibly up to 9 routes not operating next Summer from these airports and in total up to 3 aircraft potentially moving away from the bases, there is expected to be no European services ex-Shannon.

Expected that the only services relatively left unscathed will be ORK-AMS/LHR and SNN-BOS/LHR/JFK, however the latter will very much be market conditions dependent. It's unfortunate but the regional airports have a steep uphill battle for the next few years to restore these losses.

The focus is to restore the majority of DUB operations to the fullest extent possible for S21 by generating P2P demand (Sun routes) and additional transfer traffic to dually support the routes. Of course, as I always stress this is subject to change.

Without any judgement - the Covid pandemic could be the end of EI at these airports at any kind of scale. As airlines rebuild their schedules they will do so at their hubs, if the pax from Cork & Shannon use Dublin, then EI may see more sense adding frequencies in Dublin than restoring the regional routes. The US carriers returning to Shannon might prompt the US routes to return. Interesting times.

Avoation1091 · 05-12-2020 6:11pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Without any judgement - the Covid pandemic could be the end of EI at these airports at any kind of scale. As airlines rebuild their schedules they will do so at their hubs, if the pax from Cork & Shannon use Dublin, then EI may see more sense adding frequencies in Dublin than restoring the regional routes. The US carriers returning to Shannon might prompt the US routes to return. Interesting times.

The US Carriers will so far come back to SNN according to Mary Considine. UA & DL will be back in S22 at the earliest though. AA are scheduled to be back next year and operate SNN-PHL with the Dreamliner. Hopefully there is more pax for EI SNN-JFK next year since UA & DL wont be back until 22. All depends on people wanting to travel though and if EI return to Shannon. The vaccine rollout will help.

Locker10a · 05-12-2020 8:32pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Without any judgement - the Covid pandemic could be the end of EI at these airports at any kind of scale. As airlines rebuild their schedules they will do so at their hubs, if the pax from Cork & Shannon use Dublin, then EI may see more sense adding frequencies in Dublin than restoring the regional routes. The US carriers returning to Shannon might prompt the US routes to return. Interesting times.

Yeah that’s a fair judgement but I think Cork in particular always performed very well especially sun routes, would EI be happy to hand over market share to someone else on these routes.

cson · 05-12-2020 11:50pm

Avoation1091 wrote: »

The US Carriers will so far come back to SNN according to Mary Considine. UA & DL will be back in S22 at the earliest though. AA are scheduled to be back next year and operate SNN-PHL with the Dreamliner. Hopefully there is more pax for EI SNN-JFK next year since UA & DL wont be back until 22. All depends on people wanting to travel though and if EI return to Shannon. The vaccine rollout will help.

The 787 is too much gear for SNN. They'll drop that as soon as they run the numbers on it over 6 weeks I reckon.

The retirement of the 757 would have me concerned for SNN, they fit a nice rotation space for UA/AA/DL doing a SJU-PHL-SNN spin or an LAX-EWR-SNN.

Surprised SNN wouldn't be seen to have the ability to support an LHR rotation from an EI perspective.

TheBetsy · 06-12-2020 1:17am

If the booking engine is anything to go by seems Paris, Barcelona, Nice, Lisbon, Alicante all canned from Cork next summer? Faro and Malaga currently bookable as 3pw having had a frequency of 10 pw I believe over the last few peak seasons. Obviously the above is nothing confirmed but certainly paints a bleak enough picture for EIs operations from the airport next summer.

HTCOne · 06-12-2020 2:55am

I've mentioned a few times I'm very worried about Shannon's future. I totally agree the 787 is too much plane. Delta ran the 767 for one year on SNN-BOS a couple of years ago and reverted to the 757. AFAIK Delta are not retiring the 757 so they might be back, but until AA and UA get the 321XLR (2023 at the earliest) I don't think they'll be back.

As for EI, who knows. The LRs will likely be needed in DUB to build back up business til there's enough demand to pull 330s out of storage. Then there's the 2 or 3 that might be in Manchester. On the other hand, most people's pay has been unaffected by COVID. The property prices are expected to keep climbing, more mortgages are being approved than ever before because so many people are saving so much right now due having less expenses as a result of working from home. Demand for discretionary travel may rocket once borders open. Fingers crossed.

Avoation1091 · 06-12-2020 9:46pm

Will EI still have an A320 in Shannon? Plan a few weeks looked to be just two LR but the 320 seems scheduled on the SNN LHR

Shamrockj · 07-12-2020 11:44am

At the moment it looks like there will still be an A320 in Shannon but I could easily see that changing. The early LHR could easily be operated by a A321NEOLR and the later ones can be operated by an aircraft from Dublin or Cork etc

Avoation1091 · 07-12-2020 6:30pm

Shamrockj wrote: »

At the moment it looks like there will still be an A320 in Shannon but I could easily see that changing. The early LHR could easily be operated by a A321NEOLR and the later ones can be operated by an aircraft from Dublin or Cork etc

EI380 was showing as a NEO but got reverted back to an A320. Changes to come again maybe.

LRE did a test flight in Hamburg today. It must be due for delivery soon.

highlydebased · 07-12-2020 9:57pm

There was a revised SNN-LHR schedule on sale last week which involved EI380/1 being done on the 321 and an hour later throughout 0845 departure from SNN. The other two rotations were down as W from Dublin at different times including EI388 departing SNN at 2120

Kcormahs · 09-12-2020 10:26pm

I am truely amazed with Aer Lingus and its Covid19 losses. Reading from other forums there is no flag carrier or former flag carrier in Europe that hasn't gotten a bailout from the EU at this point. Air France and TAP are heading for their second bailout for 2021 now. Even Iberia, from the same group (IAG) has had access to a credit facility in Spain and the Spanish government is considering a bailout in 2021. From what I have been reading AF-KLM were bailed out with 11bn+ (7bn+3bn respectively)
Lufthansa Group 14bn (this includes all its airlines too in Belgium, Austria and Switzerland)
Alitalia re-nationalised and given a start-up of 3bn by the italian gov
TAP 1.2bn + 1.6bn for 2021
TAROM €600m
SAS 1.1bn
Finnair €826m
and many more ( https://www.greenpeace.org/eu-unit/issues/climate-energy/2725/airline-bailout-tracker/ )

Will the Irish Government really leave Aer Lingus outside and without facilities of getting any support or even letting it go down?

For the usual folk saying Aer Lingus isn't an Irish company anymore and that its been privatised so it should get nothing etc. bare in mind many of those companies are/were also private groups (incld Lufthansa) and still they got bailouts...

Van.Bosch · 09-12-2020 11:17pm

Kcormahs wrote: »

I am truely amazed with Aer Lingus and its Covid19 losses. Reading from other forums there is no flag carrier or former flag carrier in Europe that hasn't gotten a bailout from the EU at this point. Air France and TAP are heading for their second bailout for 2021 now. Even Iberia, from the same group (IAG) has had access to a credit facility in Spain and the Spanish government is considering a bailout in 2021. From what I have been reading AF-KLM were bailed out with 11bn+ (7bn+3bn respectively)
Lufthansa Group 14bn (this includes all its airlines too in Belgium, Austria and Switzerland)
Alitalia re-nationalised and given a start-up of 3bn by the italian gov
TAP 1.2bn + 1.6bn for 2021
TAROM €600m
SAS 1.1bn
Finnair €826m
and many more ( https://www.greenpeace.org/eu-unit/issues/climate-energy/2725/airline-bailout-tracker/ )

Will the Irish Government really leave Aer Lingus outside and without facilities of getting any support or even letting it go down?

For the usually folk saying Aer Lingus isn't an Irish company anymore and that its been privatised so it should get nothing etc. bare in mind many of those companies are/were also private groups (incld Lufthansa) and still they got bailouts...

It’s a good comprehensive point but has the Irish government rejected assistance, they aren’t going to bail out someone who hasn’t asked for help.

cson · 09-12-2020 11:50pm

Kcormahs wrote: »

I am truely amazed with Aer Lingus and its Covid19 losses. Reading from other forums there is no flag carrier or former flag carrier in Europe that hasn't gotten a bailout from the EU at this point. Air France and TAP are heading for their second bailout for 2021 now. Even Iberia, from the same group (IAG) has had access to a credit facility in Spain and the Spanish government is considering a bailout in 2021. From what I have been reading AF-KLM were bailed out with 11bn+ (7bn+3bn respectively)
Lufthansa Group 14bn (this includes all its airlines too in Belgium, Austria and Switzerland)
Alitalia re-nationalised and given a start-up of 3bn by the italian gov
TAP 1.2bn + 1.6bn for 2021
TAROM €600m
SAS 1.1bn
Finnair €826m
and many more ( https://www.greenpeace.org/eu-unit/issues/climate-energy/2725/airline-bailout-tracker/ )

Will the Irish Government really leave Aer Lingus outside and without facilities of getting any support or even letting it go down?

For the usual folk saying Aer Lingus isn't an Irish company anymore and that its been privatised so it should get nothing etc. bare in mind many of those companies are/were also private groups (incld Lufthansa) and still they got bailouts...

How would you feel about FR getting one? Interested to hear the thought process, because I would imagine the reticence from Government Buildings is sauce for goose/sauce for the gander if they bail EI out.

Fwiw I do believe some form of assistance or guarantor assurances should be provided if requested.

HTCOne · 10-12-2020 3:12am

Van.Bosch wrote: »

It’s a good comprehensive point but has the Irish government rejected assistance, they aren’t going to bail out someone who hasn’t asked for help.

Who says they didn't (informally)?

The best run airlines pre COVID built up cash reserves in the good times, the bad ones get bailed out to continue to "compete". An injustice to put it mildly.

blackwhite · 10-12-2020 10:10am

They haven't taken any airline-specific state bailout - but they did avail of the TWSS and are likely now participating in the EWSS - both of which will result in not insignificant state support to Aer Lingus.

I'd imagine that there's a reluctance to look for direct State bailouts by IAG in general unless they absolutely need it for survival. Taking a direct bailout will come with lots of conditions, and would hugely compromise any airlines ability to make hard decisions about unviable routes without state interference for years to come.
Similar logic for Ryanair not looking for any Govt bailouts also

LiamaDelta · 10-12-2020 10:33am

Kcormahs wrote: »

I am truely amazed with Aer Lingus and its Covid19 losses. Reading from other forums there is no flag carrier or former flag carrier in Europe that hasn't gotten a bailout from the EU at this point. Air France and TAP are heading for their second bailout for 2021 now. Even Iberia, from the same group (IAG) has had access to a credit facility in Spain and the Spanish government is considering a bailout in 2021. From what I have been reading AF-KLM were bailed out with 11bn+ (7bn+3bn respectively)
Lufthansa Group 14bn (this includes all its airlines too in Belgium, Austria and Switzerland)
Alitalia re-nationalised and given a start-up of 3bn by the italian gov
TAP 1.2bn + 1.6bn for 2021
TAROM €600m
SAS 1.1bn
Finnair €826m
and many more ( https://www.greenpeace.org/eu-unit/issues/climate-energy/2725/airline-bailout-tracker/ )

Will the Irish Government really leave Aer Lingus outside and without facilities of getting any support or even letting it go down?

For the usual folk saying Aer Lingus isn't an Irish company anymore and that its been privatised so it should get nothing etc. bare in mind many of those companies are/were also private groups (incld Lufthansa) and still they got bailouts...

It's a sign of strength that they haven't needed a bailout. Why should a company take on debt if they don't need to? Those loans aren't free money, they come with conditions attached. And as mentioned, they haven't asked for a bailout so a government can't force it on them.

Graham · 10-12-2020 12:31pm

LiamaDelta wrote: »

Why should a company take on debt if they don't need to? Those loans aren't free money, they come with conditions attached.

It's not all debt but you're certainly right about the 'conditions'.

The German government took a 20% shareholding in Lufthansa as part of their €9bn bailout.

The eye watering bailout of Air-France-KLM might end up around €16bn some of which may be converted to equity.

TAP Air Portugal, €1.2bn with more on the way and the Portuguese state increasing its shareholding from 50% - 75%.

LiamaDelta · 10-12-2020 1:03pm

Graham wrote: »

It's not all debt but you're certainly right about the 'conditions'.

The German government took a 20% shareholding in Lufthansa as part of their €9bn bailout.

The eye watering bailout of Air-France-KLM might end up around €16bn some of which may be converted to equity.

TAP Air Portugal, €1.2bn with more on the way and the Portuguese state increasing its shareholding from 50% - 75%.

Yup. every company knows that swapping debt for equity, or using shareholding as collateral is an absolute last resort. They will generally raise money from shareholders (which IAG did) to tide them over. As far as I know Ryanair also did a share issue to build up cash. They are both in a very good position. To be fair to Willie Walsh he's as shrewd as you can get when it comes to financial management and had IAG in a good position before he left.

Shamrockj · 10-12-2020 5:25pm

It looks like EI-EDY and -ELA plus 2 of the new arriving A321NEOLR will be be registered under UK reg and operated from Manchester next year.

goingnowhere · 10-12-2020 6:47pm

Shamrockj wrote: »

It looks like EI-EDY and -ELA plus 2 of the new arriving A321NEOLR will be be registered under UK reg and operated from Manchester next year.

Interesting, well we can put to bed the Las Vegas debate as ELA, EDY are not fitted with crew rest so won't be going further than MCO

Tenger · 10-12-2020 7:17pm

cson wrote: »

How would you feel about FR getting one? Interested to hear the thought process, because I would imagine the reticence from Government Buildings is sauce for goose/sauce for the gander if they bail EI out.

Fwiw I do believe some form of assistance or guarantor assurances should be provided if requested.

Ryanair have availed of UK Govt assistance (as have Wizzair)
Not quite the same as a bailout but Govt help nonetheless.

Idbatterim · 10-12-2020 8:31pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

Interesting, well we can put to bed the Las Vegas debate as ELA, EDY are not fitted with crew rest so won't be going further than MCO

Would they not use an a330 on the route? Looking forward to jetblue coming into Dublin...

L1011 · 10-12-2020 9:00pm

Vegas talk is specifically and utterly banned on this thread until such point as it is confirmed by EI - if ever. And the last poster definitely knows better than to try talk about it, even if some others may not

Kermit.de.frog · 11-12-2020 8:29pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-to-move-aircraft-for-us-flights-from-ireland-to-uk-1.4434422

I know this signals the limiting of growth at DUB but could we see a reduction in services from DUB as a result? (post pandemic)

Kcormahs · 11-12-2020 8:34pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-to-move-aircraft-for-us-flights-from-ireland-to-uk-1.4434422

I know this signals the limiting of growth at DUB but could we see a reduction in services from DUB as a result? (post pandemic)

Well for a start, Miami and Minneapolis have both officially been discontinued permanently. Many european frequencies have been cut too including Manchester-Dublin down to 3 times a day in some days of the week for next summer opposed to 7 times a day in 2019 and so on

Kermit.de.frog · 11-12-2020 8:46pm

Kcormahs wrote: »

Well for a start, Miami and Minneapolis have both officially been discontinued permanently. Many european frequencies have been cut too including Manchester-Dublin down to 3 times a day in some days of the week for next summer opposed to 7 times a day in 2019 and so on

I'm thinking more long term. Not cuts as a direct result of the pandemic which of course are universal.

More specifically Aer Lingus had a well developed strategy for Dublin as a hub.

I'm more wondering is this signaling an end to those ambitions - or at least a brake.

goingnowhere · 11-12-2020 9:12pm

IAG is just waiting for some further consolidation to occur and to pounce on the gaps, EI has gone after Thomas Cook at MAN, there will be others. The A321NEOLR is the key here, there aren't many flying and EI has a pile on order. The American carriers won't be able to compete with a 757 too thirsty and a 787 will be too big.

A lot of airlines are now lumped with state issued loans and cash and will suffer from political interference and from cash flow issues to pay off, IAG to date is free to do its own thing.

The pre-clearance in Dublin is still a massive business advantage. The real question is business travel when it resume and to what extent. One thing is clear if next summer Europe is back open there will be massive demand as we all scramble to get a holiday. But what EI want to know is what demand to FRA will be like on a wet November Tuesday morning, that remains to be seen.

notuslimited · 12-12-2020 12:43am

goingnowhere wrote: »

IAG is just waiting for some further consolidation to occur and to pounce on the gaps, EI has gone after Thomas Cook at MAN, there will be others. The A321NEOLR is the key here, there aren't many flying and EI has a pile on order. The American carriers won't be able to compete with a 757 too thirsty and a 787 will be too big.

A lot of airlines are now lumped with state issued loans and cash and will suffer from political interference and from cash flow issues to pay off, IAG to date is free to do its own thing.

The pre-clearance in Dublin is still a massive business advantage. The real question is business travel when it resume and to what extent. One thing is clear if next summer Europe is back open there will be massive demand as we all scramble to get a holiday. But what EI want to know is what demand to FRA will be like on a wet November Tuesday morning, that remains to be seen.

I was a weekly commuter to FRA ex DUB (office is there). We have been told that teleworking will continue to at least 1 June 2021 (began in March) and it’s clear we are never going back to pre Covid ways of working. My guess is that my weekly flights to FRA will move to a monthly trip to the office. My ways of working have changed forever and flights will be a much smaller part of my life (and I bet I am one of many).

Captain_Crash · 12-12-2020 9:45am

notuslimited wrote: »

I was a weekly commuter to FRA ex DUB (office is there). We have been told that teleworking will continue to at least 1 June 2021 (began in March) and it’s clear we are never going back to pre Covid ways of working. My guess is that my weekly flights to FRA will move to a monthly trip to the office. My ways of working have changed forever and flights will be a much smaller part of my life (and I bet I am one of many).

My company is the opposite. We’ve been home since March and have been told WFH is going to be part of our working lives for good but also that they expect business travel to be back to pre covid levels as soon as feasible.

billy few mates · 12-12-2020 8:17pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

IAG is just waiting for some further consolidation to occur and to pounce on the gaps, EI has gone after Thomas Cook at MAN, there will be others. The A321NEOLR is the key here, there aren't many flying and EI has a pile on order. The American carriers won't be able to compete with a 757 too thirsty and a 787 will be too big.

Any fuel savings will be more than wiped out by the lease costs of a brand new A321NEOLR when compared to the operating costs of a B757 which has been bought and paid for several times over.

Shamrockj · 13-12-2020 11:28pm

billy few mates wrote: »

Any fuel savings will be more than wiped out by the lease costs of a brand new A321NEOLR when compared to the operating costs of a B757 which has been bought and paid for several times over.

Not really. Fuel isn’t the only saving the A321NEOLR offers. Pilot and crew training is a huge saving, fleet utilization the NEO can do a European flight between down time in Dublin also saving on parking fees in Dublin. It also has a few extra seats including 4 extra seats in business which is a nice earner, revenue from WiFi is also a bonus.

goingnowhere · 14-12-2020 8:41am

Starting fresh today, yes its cheaper to lease a 757 but more expensive to run and maintain, however the airlines have what they have in the fleets and the leases etc must be paid so ownership cost isn't part of the discussion really, its what can generate some positive cash flow

billy few mates · 14-12-2020 12:59pm

Shamrockj wrote: »

Not really. Fuel isn’t the only saving the A321NEOLR offers. Pilot and crew training is a huge saving, fleet utilization the NEO can do a European flight between down time in Dublin also saving on parking fees in Dublin. It also has a few extra seats including 4 extra seats in business which is a nice earner, revenue from WiFi is also a bonus.

My answer was in relation to the suggestion that American airlines operating B757s wouldn't be able to compete with Aer Lingus operating brand new A321LRs, crew training and fleet utilisation has nothing to do with it in this instance.
Fuel saving benefits are only maximised in times of high fuel prices so won't really be a factor now and likewise the extra capacity will only be a benefit in times of high demand, so also not really a factor at the moment.
The point is that the B757s operated by the American carriers will likely be owned outright having been bought and paid for many years ago so they won't have to factor in expensive lease costs into their operating costs.
Yes maintenance is more expensive the older the airplane gets but the B757 fleet was renowned for its build quality and reliability and these legacy fleets would have been well looked after over the years so the maintenance costs would not be as high as you might think, they're easy to maintain and parts are still widely available. There are also no major ADs, SBs or expensive upgrades or aging aircraft programs affecting them that would limit the life span.

Jack1985 · 15-12-2020 12:23am

KLM/AF seizing on opportunity presented by EI, to upscale services and capacity on ORK-AMS/CDG. KLM sending 737's over the Christmas period due demand, and will operate in total up to four daily services with overnighting aircraft from Cork to both Amsterdam (twice daily) and Paris CDG (twice daily) for Summer 2021.

EI have operated ORK-CDG since the 1990s and will be terminating the service, I don’t see EI’s ORK-AMS lasting without KL feed at the capacity planned for S21 or any point thereafter. EI will terminate Cork to Alicante, Barcelona, Lisbon, Nice and Paris CDG and slash-based units by 50% from 4 to 2 during Summer. As well as this Shannon to Barcelona, Faro, Malaga and Paris CDG are also gone as is Dublin-Montpellier.

California Dreamer · 15-12-2020 8:57am

Jack1985 wrote: »

KLM/AF seizing on opportunity presented by EI, to upscale services and capacity on ORK-AMS/CDG. KLM sending 737's over the Christmas period due demand, and will operate in total up to four daily services with overnighting aircraft from Cork to both Amsterdam (twice daily) and Paris CDG (twice daily) for Summer 2021.

Either EI do not give a single f**k about ORK or someone really took the gas off the pedal on that one and allowed someone in their back door like that!

Locker10a · 15-12-2020 10:41am

Jack1985 wrote: »

EI will terminate Cork to Alicante, Barcelona, Lisbon, Nice and Paris CDG and slash-based units by 50% from 4 to 2 during Summer. As well as this Shannon to Barcelona, Faro, Malaga and Paris CDG are also gone as is Dublin-Montpellier.

I sincerely hope this is temporary termination for only part of 2021 and these routes and the full base will return to ORK.
I can’t see why it shouldn’t when for many many years they’ve had a successful and profitable operation out of Cork. Perhaps they’re looking for a better deal on fees with the airport, I certainly hope that’s the case

HTCOne · 15-12-2020 2:28pm

Is it 3 A320s have left the fleet so far this year? That capacity has to be cut somewhere in the network.

goingnowhere · 15-12-2020 2:52pm

3 A320 gone
3 A321 in long term storage (but looks like a part out)

The A321NEO's provide some first wave cover to fill the gaps

Jack1985 · 15-12-2020 3:19pm

PE is being maintained although stored at the moment.

Jack1985 · 15-12-2020 3:24pm

Locker10a wrote: »

I sincerely hope this is temporary termination for only part of 2021 and these routes and the full base will return to ORK.
I can’t see why it shouldn’t when for many many years they’ve had a successful and profitable operation out of Cork. Perhaps they’re looking for a better deal on fees with the airport, I certainly hope that’s the case

I don't see anything positive that will follow this, if you look at the route profile for S21 with just 2 aircraft, there won't be justification for 2 aircraft in Winter 21/22 - That would question EI's commitment thereafter at all to European op's ex-ORK. It's a waiting game now for AMS to be cut severely or cut altogether by Winter 21 I'd imagine especially with the KLM/AF quick move. This is EI at Cork back to 1990’s levels.

EI have foolishly seeded completely their market share to competitors at ORK, Ryanair for example as of today in their booking engine will operate daily for the first time between Cork and Faro next year and have increased services from Cork to Alicante, Lanzarote, Malaga and Palma.

It'd be prudent if possible, for Cork Management to try sway Vueling onto Barcelona-Cork, the sister airline Iberia Express does well on Madrid-Cork with students particularly.

Tenger · 16-12-2020 10:48pm

HTCOne wrote: »

Is it 3 A320s have left the fleet so far this year? That capacity has to be cut somewhere in the network.

They had approx 30 A320s?
Reducing Fleet by 10% isn't an issue when your estimate for S21 is 70% operations.

Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

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