Cycle Lanes in Phoenix Park

P_1 · 09-05-2018 6:47am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

According to another thread, the gardai send 4 of their members if you’re using a human cordon to stop this happening to a similar cycle lane in rathmines. Wonder how many would show up if you called them here?

But it’s typical ireland. Motorists will literally park anywhere given the opportunity, they’re unbelievably selfish. My only solution would be plastic bolliards, although they get knocked easily. Perhaps a 6” kerb would be require in this scenario?

They really missed a trick with the recessed brickwork on that cycle lane. Not only does it do the Scottish Football Association to stop Wayne Kerrs from parking in it, it is bloody awful to cycle over when you inevitably have to cycle over it to avoid the parked Wayne Kerrs.

beauf · 09-05-2018 7:12am

ED E wrote: »

If you built a skyscraper without permission in front of An Board Planala you'd hear about it. If you set up a barracks outside the Curragh you'd hear about it.

So why the F UCK is the law so irrelevant in sight of the Garda HQ. More competency in a class of Junior Infants.

https://twitter.com/aoifegall/status/993568931343405056

I wonder how many Garda passed this in a normal day and just ignore it.

Chips Lovell · 09-05-2018 7:42am

The other cycle lanes in the Phoenix Park aren't statutory cycle lanes. I'm not sure these ones are either.

beauf · 09-05-2018 7:59am

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

The other cycle lanes in the Phoenix Park aren't statutory cycle lanes. I'm not sure these ones are either.

Covered under By laws? Maybe?

RacoonQueen · 09-05-2018 8:06am

Selfish car owners, being selfish. What a surprise. The sun brings out the total and utter selfishness in car owners. I need to park my car so I can get out and enjoy the sun and I don't give a sh*t where I park it as I want to enjoy the sun.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/11388560359/permalink/10160472466250360/
https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/993857302506635264

magicbastarder · 09-05-2018 8:17am

am i right in thinking that the gardai have no responsibility for policing parking in the phoenix park, that it's up to the park rangers?

Chips Lovell · 09-05-2018 8:19am

magicbastarder wrote: »

am i right in thinking that the gardai have no responsibility for policing parking in the phoenix park, that it's up to the park rangers?

That's my understanding.

RacoonQueen · 09-05-2018 8:41am

magicbastarder wrote: »

am i right in thinking that the gardai have no responsibility for policing parking in the phoenix park, that it's up to the park rangers?

From what I've seen online, they say it is up to OPW and OPW say it's up to the guards.

Seve OB · 09-05-2018 11:00am

beauf wrote: »

I wonder how many Garda passed this in a normal day and just ignore it.

well sure until they got their own little parking bay last year, they were the worst offenders of the lot.

actually, they still are, regularly parked on paths and the cycle lane inside park gates & their parking on corners, taxi ranks, double yellows, wheelchair spots all around parkgate street is nothing short of shocking.... and it is every single day

Chips Lovell · 09-05-2018 11:13am

beauf wrote: »

Covered under By laws? Maybe?

magicbastarder wrote: »

am i right in thinking that the gardai have no responsibility for policing parking in the phoenix park, that it's up to the park rangers?

RacoonQueen wrote: »

From what I've seen online, they say it is up to OPW and OPW say it's up to the guards.

There's some ambiguity in the bye-laws alright. They say nothing about the status of cycle lanes but do say this:

4.(3) Drivers of vehicles in the Park shall comply with the provisions of these bye-laws and shall conform to such orders for the regulation of traffic in the Park as may be given by any member of the Garda Shiocanna or any park constable or contained in any notice by the Commissioners exhibited in the Park.

4.(4) No vehicle shall remain stationary on any road in the Park except at such places thereon as the Commissioners shall authorise and shall specify in a notice exhibited at such places.

Penalties are:

18. Every person who shall do any act or thing which is a breach or in contravention of any of these bye-laws shall be guilty of an offence against these bye-laws and may be removed from the Park and shall on summary conviction of such offence be liable to a penalty not exceeding five pounds.

They also say this:

(11) No person shall commit any act contrary to public morality or decency in the Park, or use any profane, indecent, or obscene language to the annoyance of other persons using the Park.

ED E · 09-05-2018 12:41pm

RacoonQueen wrote: »

From what I've seen online, they say it is up to OPW and OPW say it's up to the guards.

Whoever its up to if this were Germany or France they'd both be embarrassed if their little shared patch was such a mess. "Its not my job" is far too prevalent here.

AGS are prime "offenders" too.

DRBJDoxWsAAeXmh.jpg:large

Annie get your Run · 09-05-2018 7:30pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

am i right in thinking that the gardai have no responsibility for policing parking in the phoenix park, that it's up to the park rangers?

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

That's my understanding.

I passed a Garda on a motorbike stopped on the cycle lane just inside Parkgate street entrance last Thursday evening, it looked like he was ticketing a car that was parked there (regular occurrence...). I smiled and gave him the thumbs up and he smiled back. Given it was all over twitter that AGS were going to target drivers who put cyclists in danger this seemed like a brilliant start to the weekend. I also regularly see notices plastered to the side of cars that are parked on the cycle lane just beyond Monument roundabout however.... I noticed the good weather meant this number quadrupled overnight and no stickers there on Thursday :rolleyes:.

buffalo · 28-02-2019 1:09pm

This may have been posted elsewhere already, but apparently...

Paschal Donohoe described six possible changes to make Chesterfield Avenue safer, during a Dáil debate on cycling facilities last Thursday.

https://www.dublininquirer.com/2019/02/27/six-options-on-table-for-making-phoenix-park-safer-for-cyclists-and-pedestrians

Seve OB · 28-02-2019 1:55pm

option 3 for me.
can get rid of parking and you need cycle tracks on both sides of the road because if you only have a footpath on one side, bikes will still use it

Dr_Colossus · 28-02-2019 2:07pm

buffalo wrote: »

This may have been posted elsewhere already, but apparently...

https://www.dublininquirer.com/2019/02/27/six-options-on-table-for-making-phoenix-park-safer-for-cyclists-and-pedestrians

Some good suggestions in there but some utter lunacy also. Option 2 looks the best and most practical, Options 1 & 5 look the same while option 4 & 6 are ridiculous and anyone proposing that cyclists criss cross the main avenue to gain access to the designated cycle track and cycle contra flow to traffic obviously haven't thought through on the potential dangers especially at roundabouts which are already terrible in the phoenix park. Option 3 looks the same as existing set up and probably encourages even more pedestrians onto the designated cycle tracks.

Who is Jason Bell and why is he given 13 lines of text in that article with possibly the worst suggestion of all, lighting is not or at least shouldn't be a problem for any cyclist and the existing gas lamps are nice and quaint. No need to light pollute the Phoenix Park such as with the Phoenix Nights or Wild Lights in Dublin Zoo from November. Give the park a sense of country within the city.

checky88 · 28-02-2019 2:52pm

I would be very surprised if the removal of the parking was to happen... i know the cycle lane in the park has its problems but to be honest if the cycle lanes fed down into the roundabouts i would be happy.... A good bike light sorts out any of the lighting issues

Weepsie · 28-02-2019 4:22pm

There are at least 11 car parks in the phoenix park as it is, possibly 12. That doesn't count the car park in Farmleigh either. There are a load of people who treat it as a free park and walk/ride, whatever facility.

It is one of Dublin most attractive things, yet it is spoiled by the volume of traffic allowed through it, and more so the sheer amount of public space given over to people occupying with their private vehicles.

I'm not sure if the the rules around corporate/business vehicles still apply either, but I rarely see them enforced

Weepsie · 28-02-2019 4:31pm

Using the very unscientific googlemaps counting, and knowing from experience that the entirity of Chesterfield avenue could be full of parked either side on a mile day, there are conceivably 1000 cars parked on Chesterfield Avenue alone when at it's busiest. That is quite frankly absurd.

That there isn't a shuttle service from the city centre to various parts of the park too seems a bit odd.

beauf · 28-02-2019 4:46pm

Weepsie wrote: »

...That there isn't a shuttle service from the city centre to various parts of the park too seems a bit odd.

They tried it and it was just stuck in gridlock at peak.

beauf · 28-02-2019 4:50pm

Its a big park. Accessibility is a problem if you remove parking.

Also it carries about a quarter of the M50 toll bridge volume daily. Its a major route from all points of the compass.

That said they closed the main for almost a year before when they rebuilt the road.

Dr_Colossus · 28-02-2019 5:05pm

Weepsie wrote: »

Using the very unscientific googlemaps counting, and knowing from experience that the entirity of Chesterfield avenue could be full of parked either side on a mile day, there are conceivably 1000 cars parked on Chesterfield Avenue alone when at it's busiest. That is quite frankly absurd.

That there isn't a shuttle service from the city centre to various parts of the park too seems a bit odd.

Agree that the number of parked cars on Chesterfield avenue is absurd. They shouldn't be encouraging people to drive through it and there is amble parking elsewhere in the park as indicated for those visiting and using the facilities for a few hours.

The problem is all the people using it as a free park and walk/ride with their vehicles abandoned there (often in the same spots) for 8+ hrs everyday. If there was a shuttle service or even a Dublin Bus stop then the whole park would become a car park. I suspect it's one of the reasons there isn't even a Dublin Bikes station within the park beside the zoo.

Don't see why the OPW would be so adverse to removing parking on Chesterfield avenue, it's not like their earning parking fees on it and all the traffic has a pretty detrimental affect on road surfaces

beauf · 28-02-2019 5:12pm

OPW are very opposed to any cars in the park. They close parts of it on a regular basis. The close part of the Chesterfild Ave every weekend during the summer.

Are ye not aware of that?

Chips Lovell · 28-02-2019 5:15pm

Weepsie wrote: »

It is one of Dublin most attractive things, yet it is spoiled by the volume of traffic allowed through it, and more so the sheer amount of public space given over to people occupying with their private vehicles.

This is kind of a bugbear of mine. It's one thing driving through the park, but if you're going to do that, don't drive like a cock. It's a leisure amenity first and foremost. Its purpose isn't supposed to be an alternative to the N3 and N4

Dr_Colossus · 28-02-2019 5:44pm

beauf wrote: »

OPW are very opposed to any cars in the park. They close parts of it on a regular basis. The close part of the Chesterfild Ave every weekend during the summer.

Are ye not aware of that?

Yes but it would make more sense to close it midweek to curtail commuting traffic or at least make it less convenient and open it at weekends where generally people have more time to go to the park for a run/cycle or visit the zoo.

reg114 · 28-02-2019 5:49pm

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

This is kind of a bugbear of mine. It's one thing driving through the park, but if you're going to do that, don't drive like a cock. It's a leisure amenity first and foremost. Its purpose isn't supposed to be an alternative to the N3 and N4

Why dont they just toll the traffic driving through the park ?? All the revenue could go back into the maintenance of the park and to build cycle ways etc

Chips Lovell · 28-02-2019 5:52pm

reg114 wrote: »

Why dont they just toll the traffic driving through the park ?? All the revenue could go back into the maintenance of the park and to build cycle ways etc

I think imposing a toll would make people consider it more akin to the M50, not less.

beauf · 28-02-2019 7:13pm

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Yes but it would make more sense to close it midweek to curtail commuting traffic or at least make it less convenient and open it at weekends where generally people have more time to go to the park for a run/cycle or visit the zoo.

You want to only open the park at weekends?

Most people who use the park for recreation drive there. The Zoo car park is overflowing at the weekends far and wide.

Lots of people drive there and go for a walk, cycle run, walk the dog. Then back in the car and home.

Pinch Flat · 28-02-2019 7:21pm

Weepsie wrote: »

Using the very unscientific googlemaps counting, and knowing from experience that the entirity of Chesterfield avenue could be full of parked either side on a mile day, there are conceivably 1000 cars parked on Chesterfield Avenue alone when at it's busiest. That is quite frankly absurd.

That there isn't a shuttle service from the city centre to various parts of the park too seems a bit odd.

Happens all over the city. We prioritize the storage of private property over providing decent cycling infrastructure.

It’s the same around the Georgian squares. Bags of room for cycling that’s hampered by parked cars. And why there’s not a dedicated cycle lane down Griffith Avenue is beyond me. It must be about 50 meters wide in places.

Weepsie · 28-02-2019 7:36pm

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Happens all over the city. We prioritize the storage of private property over providing decent cycling infrastructure.

It’s the same around the Georgian squares. Bags of room for cycling that’s hampered by parked cars. And why there’s not a dedicated cycle lane down Griffith Avenue is beyond me. It must be about 50 meters wide in places.

All the more baffling on Griffith Avenue is that nearly every house can comfortably have 2 parked cars within their own property,some more.

I suspect there are too many houses with 3+ cars, my own neighbours at one time had 6, which was one for everybody, they were not all necessary whatsoever, but they came to believe they were.

I'd also suspect people are parking on Griffith and walking on in to city centre.

Haithabu · 28-02-2019 7:57pm

There should be bollards in the middle of the Park so every entry is ending in a cul-de-sac somewhere. Then people can still drive into the Park if they want to bring their family or go jogging or have a BBQ. But it would stop all through traffic for cars.

That way traffic will be well reduced, cyclists can use the roads and pedestrians could get access to some cyclepathes.

beauf · 28-02-2019 8:49pm

I've been cycling through the park for years. Not had a problem with those parking or traffic. Those that are complaining about it. How does it effect you personally.

Except when it's busy with walkers or joggers and people just walk out in front of you.

eeeee · 28-02-2019 9:58pm

The park and ride nature of the cars on Chesterfield Avenue is inexcusable IMO. There should be no parking on that road, there are plenty of places to park to enjoy the park, 11 or 12 carparks I think.
The sides of the road could be given over to cyclists and the current cycle lane can be used for pedestrians. They are there already.
The parking along that road adds nothing to the park, they don't make any money our of it, they have limited ability to add infrastructure for same without affecting the character of the park - the signage needed alone for paid parking would be hideous.
Almost all the cars from the Heuston entrance to the second roundabout bar the garda cars are park and ride situations. That's inexcusable in a public park.

magicbastarder · 28-02-2019 10:13pm

beauf wrote: »

Those that are complaining about it. How does it effect you personally.

there are plenty of things which don't affect me personally, but which i've a justifiable objection to. that's not a benchmark by which i usually decide whether i should care or not.

ED E · 28-02-2019 10:13pm

nee wrote: »

The park and ride nature of the cars on Chesterfield Avenue is inexcusable IMO. There should be no parking on that road, there are plenty of places to park to enjoy the park, 11 or 12 carparks I think.

Weepsie wrote: »

There are at least 11 car parks in the phoenix park as it is, possibly 12.

Where are they out of curiosity? Papal Cross, Zoo, Visitor Centre + ?

Weepsie · 28-02-2019 10:19pm

ED E wrote: »

Where are they out of curiosity? Papal Cross, Zoo, Visitor Centre + ?

There's 2-3 near the magazine fort. Another 1 over at Mount Sackville side, 2-3 near the furry glen side too.

1 at the cricket ground too.

beauf · 28-02-2019 10:21pm

Just close the park for a month for all cars. See how it works for everyone.

You might want to warn all the the various facilities and hospitals that are in the park.

They did it before they closed the main road and the north road (the latter for no reason).
It was lovely and quiet and for months. Far less walkers on the cycle path.

beauf · 28-02-2019 10:39pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

there are plenty of things which don't affect me personally, but which i've a justifiable objection to. that's not a benchmark by which i usually decide whether i should care or not.

Lots of people with no experience of cycling express lots of daft suggestions about cycling because they have no experience of it. They care a lot too.

Seth Brundle · 28-02-2019 10:45pm

beauf wrote: »

Lots of people with no experience of cycling express lots of daft suggestions about cycling because they have no experience of it.

Many of those get jobs with the councils designing and building cycling infrastructure!

buffalo · 25-04-2019 11:59am

Surprised this wasn't posted already: http://phoenixpark.ie/visitor-experience-strategic-review/

Deadline for submissions is tomorrow at 6pm:

Observations with respect to the draft report can be made to visitorpark@opw.ie

Now's the time to ask about some pedestrian and cyclist crossings, priority for same at junctions, less through-traffic, making the Park available for cycle races more easily, etc. Or whatever you're having yourself.

Tenzor07 · 25-04-2019 12:32pm

beauf wrote: »

Just close the park for a month for all cars. See how it works for everyone.

Would be a great idea, close the park to through traffic at least... Special access only.
Authorities would have to make car parking available somewhere though...

AndrewJRenko · 25-04-2019 12:34pm

buffalo wrote: »

Surprised this wasn't posted already: http://phoenixpark.ie/visitor-experience-strategic-review/

Deadline for submissions is tomorrow at 6pm:

For something designed by a firm of architects, they seem to have zero clue about visual design - tiny font size, yellow text on white background and hidden text.

magicbastarder · 25-04-2019 1:33pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Would be a great idea, close the park to through traffic at least... Special access only.
Authorities would have to make car parking available somewhere though...

they did something reasonably akin to this a few years ago when the main avenue was closed for months for reconstruction.

beauf · 25-04-2019 1:40pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

they did something reasonably akin to this a few years ago when the main avenue was closed for months for reconstruction.

I think it was closed for most of year. Even though they only worked on one section at a time. I used to cycle past it, and it was noticeable how little of it was being worked on at a time. Also noticeable how much less busy the park was with recreational users as well.

Did the same when they were working on Blackhorse Ave. They closed North road in the park when it wasn't effected at all.

beauf · 25-04-2019 1:41pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Would be a great idea, close the park to through traffic at least... Special access only.
Authorities would have to make car parking available somewhere though...

Why? Walk to the park or cycle to it. No parking in it at all.

Hurrache · 25-04-2019 1:45pm

beauf wrote: »

Why? Walk to the park or cycle to it. No parking in it at all.

There needs to be, otherwise you're removing it as an amenity from most families. I live relatively close to it, but anyone from the D15 area knows how "entertaining" the cycle to it is when alone, never mind in a family group.

A good walk around the park, or Zoo, is enough to half kill your kids too without having them walk or cycle home.

By removing parking, or excluding park and ride facilities, it will take away one of the best facilities on that side of Dublin from many.

Chips Lovell · 25-04-2019 1:49pm

Make it easy to drive to, hard to drive through.

buffalo · 25-04-2019 1:51pm

buffalo wrote: »

Surprised this wasn't posted already: http://phoenixpark.ie/visitor-experience-strategic-review/

Deadline for submissions is tomorrow at 6pm:

Observations with respect to the draft report can be made to visitorpark@opw.ie

Now's the time to ask about some pedestrian and cyclist crossings, priority for same at junctions, less through-traffic, making the Park available for cycle races more easily, etc. Or whatever you're having yourself.

Two summaries of the proposed changes:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/skateboard-lanes-segways-and-even-a-funicular-a-look-at-the-new-proposed-visitor-experience-at-the-phoenix-park-38045201.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/vote-funicular-and-driverless-shuttle-for-the-phoenix-park-have-your-say-1.3869557

magicbastarder · 25-04-2019 1:53pm

they should also allow bike hire within the park (as in a business to operate from the papal cross car park or somewhere similar).
i suspect the bike hire place at parkgate street would love the chance, would make them far more visible.

beauf · 25-04-2019 2:17pm

Hurrache wrote: »

There needs to be, otherwise you're removing it as an amenity from most families. I live relatively close to it, but anyone from the D15 area knows how "entertaining" the cycle to it is when alone, never mind in a family group.

A good walk around the park, or Zoo, is enough to half kill your kids too without having them walk or cycle home.

By removing parking, or excluding park and ride facilities, it will take away one of the best facilities on that side of Dublin from many.

If they block you driving through, (as everyone always suggests) it cuts off the zoo for you anyway. You'll have to drive around outside the park to get to it. Same if you want to get to Farmleigh from city end.

If they close it to through traffic that leaves D15 with the single lane Navan road as the only main road into city.

They could close chesterfield Ave and just have an orbital route inside the walls for access.

Weepsie · 25-04-2019 2:28pm

Hurrache wrote: »

By removing parking, or excluding park and ride facilities, it will take away one of the best facilities on that side of Dublin from many.

Let's flip that. By removing parking, it will improve one of the best facilities on that side of Dublin for many.

It's a virtual car park for too many people. Too many people use it for free parking and head into town on it.

Cycle Lanes in Phoenix Park

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