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Cycle Lanes in Phoenix Park

papu

Bought a new bike, went for a spin up and down chesterfield avenue today on the "Bike Lane". Pedestrians every 100m, whole families, buggies, kids. Asking them to move to the pedestrian lane I was told to "Get over myself" "f** off" etc. etc. one lady even told me to use the "bike lane!:rolleyes:".

I would have thought the signs on the bike path are fairly self explanatory, do they need to put up more explicit signage? How do other people get on? Is this what it's like every weekend??:(

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[Deleted User]

buffalo wrote: »

Surprised this wasn't posted already: http://phoenixpark.ie/visitor-experience-strategic-review/

Deadline for submissions is tomorrow at 6pm:

For something designed by a firm of architects, they seem to have zero clue about visual design - tiny font size, yellow text on white background and hidden text.

Tenzor07

beauf wrote: »

Just close the park for a month for all cars. See how it works for everyone.

Would be a great idea, close the park to through traffic at least... Special access only.
Authorities would have to make car parking available somewhere though...

buffalo

Surprised this wasn't posted already: http://phoenixpark.ie/visitor-experience-strategic-review/

Deadline for submissions is tomorrow at 6pm:

Observations with respect to the draft report can be made to visitorpark@opw.ie

Now's the time to ask about some pedestrian and cyclist crossings, priority for same at junctions, less through-traffic, making the Park available for cycle races more easily, etc. Or whatever you're having yourself.

Seth Brundle

beauf wrote: »

Lots of people with no experience of cycling express lots of daft suggestions about cycling because they have no experience of it.

Many of those get jobs with the councils designing and building cycling infrastructure!

beauf

magicbastarder wrote: »

there are plenty of things which don't affect me personally, but which i've a justifiable objection to. that's not a benchmark by which i usually decide whether i should care or not.

Lots of people with no experience of cycling express lots of daft suggestions about cycling because they have no experience of it. They care a lot too.

beauf

Just close the park for a month for all cars. See how it works for everyone.

You might want to warn all the the various facilities and hospitals that are in the park.

They did it before they closed the main road and the north road (the latter for no reason).
It was lovely and quiet and for months. Far less walkers on the cycle path.

ED E

nee wrote: »

The park and ride nature of the cars on Chesterfield Avenue is inexcusable IMO. There should be no parking on that road, there are plenty of places to park to enjoy the park, 11 or 12 carparks I think.

Weepsie wrote: »

There are at least 11 car parks in the phoenix park as it is, possibly 12.

Where are they out of curiosity? Papal Cross, Zoo, Visitor Centre + ?

magicbastarder

beauf wrote: »

Those that are complaining about it. How does it effect you personally.

there are plenty of things which don't affect me personally, but which i've a justifiable objection to. that's not a benchmark by which i usually decide whether i should care or not.

eeeee

The park and ride nature of the cars on Chesterfield Avenue is inexcusable IMO. There should be no parking on that road, there are plenty of places to park to enjoy the park, 11 or 12 carparks I think.
The sides of the road could be given over to cyclists and the current cycle lane can be used for pedestrians. They are there already.
The parking along that road adds nothing to the park, they don't make any money our of it, they have limited ability to add infrastructure for same without affecting the character of the park - the signage needed alone for paid parking would be hideous.
Almost all the cars from the Heuston entrance to the second roundabout bar the garda cars are park and ride situations. That's inexcusable in a public park.

beauf

I've been cycling through the park for years. Not had a problem with those parking or traffic. Those that are complaining about it. How does it effect you personally.

Except when it's busy with walkers or joggers and people just walk out in front of you.

Haithabu

There should be bollards in the middle of the Park so every entry is ending in a cul-de-sac somewhere. Then people can still drive into the Park if they want to bring their family or go jogging or have a BBQ. But it would stop all through traffic for cars.

That way traffic will be well reduced, cyclists can use the roads and pedestrians could get access to some cyclepathes.

Pinch Flat

Weepsie wrote: »

Using the very unscientific googlemaps counting, and knowing from experience that the entirity of Chesterfield avenue could be full of parked either side on a mile day, there are conceivably 1000 cars parked on Chesterfield Avenue alone when at it's busiest. That is quite frankly absurd.

That there isn't a shuttle service from the city centre to various parts of the park too seems a bit odd.

Happens all over the city. We prioritize the storage of private property over providing decent cycling infrastructure.

It’s the same around the Georgian squares. Bags of room for cycling that’s hampered by parked cars. And why there’s not a dedicated cycle lane down Griffith Avenue is beyond me. It must be about 50 meters wide in places.

beauf

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Yes but it would make more sense to close it midweek to curtail commuting traffic or at least make it less convenient and open it at weekends where generally people have more time to go to the park for a run/cycle or visit the zoo.

You want to only open the park at weekends?

Most people who use the park for recreation drive there. The Zoo car park is overflowing at the weekends far and wide.

Lots of people drive there and go for a walk, cycle run, walk the dog. Then back in the car and home.

Chips Lovell

reg114 wrote: »

Why dont they just toll the traffic driving through the park ?? All the revenue could go back into the maintenance of the park and to build cycle ways etc

I think imposing a toll would make people consider it more akin to the M50, not less.

reg114

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

This is kind of a bugbear of mine. It's one thing driving through the park, but if you're going to do that, don't drive like a cock. It's a leisure amenity first and foremost. Its purpose isn't supposed to be an alternative to the N3 and N4

Why dont they just toll the traffic driving through the park ?? All the revenue could go back into the maintenance of the park and to build cycle ways etc

Dr_Colossus

beauf wrote: »

OPW are very opposed to any cars in the park. They close parts of it on a regular basis. The close part of the Chesterfild Ave every weekend during the summer.

Are ye not aware of that?

Yes but it would make more sense to close it midweek to curtail commuting traffic or at least make it less convenient and open it at weekends where generally people have more time to go to the park for a run/cycle or visit the zoo.

Chips Lovell

Weepsie wrote: »

It is one of Dublin most attractive things, yet it is spoiled by the volume of traffic allowed through it, and more so the sheer amount of public space given over to people occupying with their private vehicles.

This is kind of a bugbear of mine. It's one thing driving through the park, but if you're going to do that, don't drive like a cock. It's a leisure amenity first and foremost. Its purpose isn't supposed to be an alternative to the N3 and N4

beauf

OPW are very opposed to any cars in the park. They close parts of it on a regular basis. The close part of the Chesterfild Ave every weekend during the summer.

Are ye not aware of that?

Dr_Colossus

Weepsie wrote: »

Using the very unscientific googlemaps counting, and knowing from experience that the entirity of Chesterfield avenue could be full of parked either side on a mile day, there are conceivably 1000 cars parked on Chesterfield Avenue alone when at it's busiest. That is quite frankly absurd.

That there isn't a shuttle service from the city centre to various parts of the park too seems a bit odd.

Agree that the number of parked cars on Chesterfield avenue is absurd. They shouldn't be encouraging people to drive through it and there is amble parking elsewhere in the park as indicated for those visiting and using the facilities for a few hours.

The problem is all the people using it as a free park and walk/ride with their vehicles abandoned there (often in the same spots) for 8+ hrs everyday. If there was a shuttle service or even a Dublin Bus stop then the whole park would become a car park. I suspect it's one of the reasons there isn't even a Dublin Bikes station within the park beside the zoo.

Don't see why the OPW would be so adverse to removing parking on Chesterfield avenue, it's not like their earning parking fees on it and all the traffic has a pretty detrimental affect on road surfaces

beauf

Its a big park. Accessibility is a problem if you remove parking.

Also it carries about a quarter of the M50 toll bridge volume daily. Its a major route from all points of the compass.

That said they closed the main for almost a year before when they rebuilt the road.

beauf

Weepsie wrote: »

...That there isn't a shuttle service from the city centre to various parts of the park too seems a bit odd.

They tried it and it was just stuck in gridlock at peak.

checky88

I would be very surprised if the removal of the parking was to happen... i know the cycle lane in the park has its problems but to be honest if the cycle lanes fed down into the roundabouts i would be happy.... A good bike light sorts out any of the lighting issues

Dr_Colossus

buffalo wrote: »

This may have been posted elsewhere already, but apparently...

https://www.dublininquirer.com/2019/02/27/six-options-on-table-for-making-phoenix-park-safer-for-cyclists-and-pedestrians

Some good suggestions in there but some utter lunacy also. Option 2 looks the best and most practical, Options 1 & 5 look the same while option 4 & 6 are ridiculous and anyone proposing that cyclists criss cross the main avenue to gain access to the designated cycle track and cycle contra flow to traffic obviously haven't thought through on the potential dangers especially at roundabouts which are already terrible in the phoenix park. Option 3 looks the same as existing set up and probably encourages even more pedestrians onto the designated cycle tracks.

Who is Jason Bell and why is he given 13 lines of text in that article with possibly the worst suggestion of all, lighting is not or at least shouldn't be a problem for any cyclist and the existing gas lamps are nice and quaint. No need to light pollute the Phoenix Park such as with the Phoenix Nights or Wild Lights in Dublin Zoo from November. Give the park a sense of country within the city.

Seve OB

option 3 for me.
can get rid of parking and you need cycle tracks on both sides of the road because if you only have a footpath on one side, bikes will still use it

buffalo

This may have been posted elsewhere already, but apparently...

Paschal Donohoe described six possible changes to make Chesterfield Avenue safer, during a Dáil debate on cycling facilities last Thursday.

https://www.dublininquirer.com/2019/02/27/six-options-on-table-for-making-phoenix-park-safer-for-cyclists-and-pedestrians

Annie get your Run

magicbastarder wrote: »

am i right in thinking that the gardai have no responsibility for policing parking in the phoenix park, that it's up to the park rangers?

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

That's my understanding.

I passed a Garda on a motorbike stopped on the cycle lane just inside Parkgate street entrance last Thursday evening, it looked like he was ticketing a car that was parked there (regular occurrence...). I smiled and gave him the thumbs up and he smiled back. Given it was all over twitter that AGS were going to target drivers who put cyclists in danger this seemed like a brilliant start to the weekend. I also regularly see notices plastered to the side of cars that are parked on the cycle lane just beyond Monument roundabout however.... I noticed the good weather meant this number quadrupled overnight and no stickers there on Thursday :rolleyes:.

ED E

RacoonQueen wrote: »

From what I've seen online, they say it is up to OPW and OPW say it's up to the guards.

Whoever its up to if this were Germany or France they'd both be embarrassed if their little shared patch was such a mess. "Its not my job" is far too prevalent here.

AGS are prime "offenders" too.

DRBJDoxWsAAeXmh.jpg:large

Chips Lovell

beauf wrote: »

Covered under By laws? Maybe?

magicbastarder wrote: »

am i right in thinking that the gardai have no responsibility for policing parking in the phoenix park, that it's up to the park rangers?

RacoonQueen wrote: »

From what I've seen online, they say it is up to OPW and OPW say it's up to the guards.

There's some ambiguity in the bye-laws alright. They say nothing about the status of cycle lanes but do say this:

4.(3) Drivers of vehicles in the Park shall comply with the provisions of these bye-laws and shall conform to such orders for the regulation of traffic in the Park as may be given by any member of the Garda Shiocanna or any park constable or contained in any notice by the Commissioners exhibited in the Park.

4.(4) No vehicle shall remain stationary on any road in the Park except at such places thereon as the Commissioners shall authorise and shall specify in a notice exhibited at such places.

Penalties are:

18. Every person who shall do any act or thing which is a breach or in contravention of any of these bye-laws shall be guilty of an offence against these bye-laws and may be removed from the Park and shall on summary conviction of such offence be liable to a penalty not exceeding five pounds.

They also say this:

(11) No person shall commit any act contrary to public morality or decency in the Park, or use any profane, indecent, or obscene language to the annoyance of other persons using the Park.

Seve OB

beauf wrote: »

I wonder how many Garda passed this in a normal day and just ignore it.

well sure until they got their own little parking bay last year, they were the worst offenders of the lot.

actually, they still are, regularly parked on paths and the cycle lane inside park gates & their parking on corners, taxi ranks, double yellows, wheelchair spots all around parkgate street is nothing short of shocking.... and it is every single day

RacoonQueen

magicbastarder wrote: »

am i right in thinking that the gardai have no responsibility for policing parking in the phoenix park, that it's up to the park rangers?

From what I've seen online, they say it is up to OPW and OPW say it's up to the guards.