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Smoke Pollution in Urban Areas

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12467…12

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    #92
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    gozunda wrote: »
    Many such houses are lived in by the elderly and less well off in my experience.

    The conditions that many old people are living in are absolutely shocking.


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    #93
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    was it not wood pellet boilers which were really getting the push? i remember stories from years ago about people not storing the pellets correctly and them falling apart and clogging up their boilers.

    On a pellet stove and I dont recommend them at all. They are stored correctly and bought in small batches. Sometimes the Auger is either too fast or too slow and it stops up. You would never get that with a solid fuel stove. It is also pressed steel not cast iron and goes cold in 15 minutes compared to cast iron which can stay warm until the morning.

    Unless you are compelled with planning permission, stay away from pellet stoves.


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    #94
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,494 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    ah - yours is an internal stove, rather than a boiler which would be installed in a garage, say?


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    #95
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,428 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Is gas or oil heating an option? Could the rest of the family not pay for central heating? I can't believe people still live like this.
    Even plug-in or storage heaters


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    #96
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    gozunda wrote: »
    A significant portion of houses nationally are greater than 30 years old. With many being 50 years plus. And certainly whilst some have undergone insulation and had central heating systems installed - certainly not all. Others due to original construction mean that they can only be upgraded to a point before extensive rebuilding is required.

    Many such houses are lived in by the elderly and less well off in my experience.

    Why would it be limited those social groups. Its not like vast amounts of the the existing housing stock in all areas and demographics has been demolished and replaced with news builds. Likewise suburban estates built 60~2000.

    But as you say you are limited to what you can do for reasonable cost. Especially under the new regulations and grants.


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    #97
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Even plug-in or storage heaters

    Again, for a lot of pensioners, the cost of installing such things are prohibitive.

    Just a thought. Even if there's a power cut, at least with a solid fuel stove, you won't be without heat. Always good to have a back-up if the power goes out.


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    #98
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,428 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Again, for a lot of pensioners, the cost of installing such things are prohibitive.

    You can buy 3kW plug-in heaters for less than the price of a bag of coal, and they can be used to heat any part of a house not just the room with a fire.


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    #99
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    was it not wood pellet boilers which were really getting the push? i remember stories from years ago about people not storing the pellets correctly and them falling apart and clogging up their boilers.

    It was, briefly these were the rage in the "lifestyle media" with people talking about getting out of marginal crops and growing elephant grass but it didn't last long.

    I notice that dedicated biomass-WPB's are very expensive (10-12k minimum as a CH system) and you need space for the feed and tonnes of storage. Very much a middle class sort of heating style.


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    #100
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    On a pellet stove and I don't recommend them at all. They are stored correctly and bought in small batches. Sometimes the Auger is either too fast or too slow and it stops up. You would never get that with a solid fuel stove. It is also pressed steel not cast iron and goes cold in 15 minutes compared to cast iron which can stay warm until the morning.

    Unless you are compelled with planning permission, stay away from pellet stoves.

    I've not first hand experience, but anyone I know with a pellet boiler is constantly fixing and adjusting it. Might be cheap fuel but thats the only thing thats cheap about it. Maybe some people have good experiences.


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    #101
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    TheChizler wrote: »
    You can buy 3kW plug-in heaters for less than the price of a bag of coal, and they can be used to heat any part of a house not just the room with a fire.

    Then you get the electricity bill...with solid fuel you buy as you need.

    I, like many old folk, have the choice. I choose and prefer a solid fuel stove It heats the tank of water too. And costs less to heat than electricity.

    NB the coal I buy costs E9.


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    #102
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    TheChizler wrote: »
    You can buy 3kW plug-in heaters for less than the price of a bag of coal, and they can be used to heat any part of a house not just the room with a fire.

    Looking at the chart in the link below, it looks like electricity is far more expensive than coal per delivered energy cost cent/kWh

    5.98 for standard coal.
    18.01 to 33.66 for electricity. Fair enough night rate is 9.71 but it's hard to heat an old badly insulated house on night rate only.

    https://www.seai.ie/publications/Domestic-Fuel-Cost-Comparison.pdf


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    #103
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    Anybody recall those Corpo flats that were centrally heated? Plastic walls? Built in Cork and Dublin with brick gable ends and front and rear walls made of a kind of fibreboard coated in plastic and they had an electric air blower heating system, which was supposed to duct heated air around the rooms and keep them warm. They were a disaster and constantly failed and the Corpo had to rip them out and fit fireplaces. Our first house in Cork had them (a private scheme) but we soon got rid of it. The houses were so badly insulated, it was impossible to heat them properly. Everyone in the estate put in a fireplace afterwards. back in the 70s and 80s, rockwool was about as good as it got for insulation. the concept of insulating walls didnt exist.
    The Greens have this notion that we will all become proper Scandinavians if we just listen to them, follow their advice (or orders) and super-insulate our houses. Well, the bad news for Greens is that most Scandi houses are heated by Russian or North Sea gas and/or nuclear power and that isn't changing any time soon, regardless of Greta Thunberg's opinion, and they are properly built from day 1, not thrown up by shifty builders, desperate to squeeze every cent out of a project.


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    #104
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Is gas or oil heating an option? Could the rest of the family not pay for central heating? I can't believe people still live like this.


    Like what? lol.. I would not choose central heating. In rentals where it was in I never used it. Always a solid fuel fire. Usually with a back boiler .


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    #105
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,404 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    There's A rated homes have stoves fitted from new, it's not all poorly insulated homes they are in.


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    #106
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    TheChizler wrote: »
    You can buy 3kW plug-in heaters for less than the price of a bag of coal, and they can be used to heat any part of a house not just the room with a fire.

    As a matter of interest and information can you price it per hour to use? Thank you.


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    #107
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I love a real fire, and even a range. I grew up with them and solid fuel. I don't miss the cleaning, and dirt from storing and moving it around, and cleaning afterwards. I used to like chopping logs and such. But its heavy work. That said a bit of coal or turf on a well stacked fire, puts out a tremendous amount of heat for a long time. We also had Oil and I never really like that. Always seemed expensive.


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    #108
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,404 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Graces7 wrote: »
    I, like many old folk, have the choice. I choose and prefer a solid fuel stove It heats the tank of water too. And costs less to heat than electricity.


    This is a big problem, I noticed during the summer that you couldn't keep a window open because neighbours were using the stoves to heat their water and polluting the air, this was when it was 25 degrees plus during the day.


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    #109
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,428 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Looking at the chart in the link below, it looks like electricity is far more expensive than coal per delivered energy cost cent/kWh

    5.98 for standard coal.
    18.01 to 33.66 for electricity. Fair enough night rate is 9.71 but it's hard to heat an old badly insulated house on night rate only.

    https://www.seai.ie/publications/Domestic-Fuel-Cost-Comparison.pdf
    Does that account for the 20-30% efficiency of an open fire? Can't tell from that document.

    My point is the electricity will heat other areas as well, you'll be a long time waiting for your open fire to heat your bedroom without a back boiler. The operating costs are comparable without having to make expensive modifications to a house.


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    #110
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    Anybody recall those Corpo flats that were centrally heated? Plastic walls? Built in Cork and Dublin with brick gable ends and front and rear walls made of a kind of fibreboard coated in plastic and they had an electric air blower heating system, which was supposed to duct heated air around the rooms and keep them warm. They were a disaster and constantly failed and the Corpo had to rip them out and fit fireplaces. Our first house in Cork had them (a private scheme) but we soon got rid of it. The houses were so badly insulated, it was impossible to heat them properly. Everyone in the estate put in a fireplace afterwards. back in the 70s and 80s, rockwool was about as good as it got for insulation. the concept of insulating walls didnt exist.

    The Greens have this notion that we will all become proper Scandinavians if we just listen to them, follow their advice (or orders) and super-insulate our houses. Well, the bad news for Greens is that most Scandi houses are heated by Russian or North Sea gas and/or nuclear power and that isn't changing any time soon, regardless of Greta Thunberg's opinion, and they are properly built from day 1, not thrown up by shifty builders, desperate to squeeze every cent out of a project.

    Meanwhile in Scandinavia...

    https://www.skargards.com/ie/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAzZL-BRDnARIsAPCJs72rq4M5a_vZNM4Z3Xn8jAZsisFJuW38NE2cuNyhJZUNFT3s2w_NFQcaAlgVEALw_wcB


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    #111
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,404 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    gozunda wrote: »
    Meanwhile in Scandinavia...

    https://www.skargards.com/ie/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAzZL-BRDnARIsAPCJs72rq4M5a_vZNM4Z3Xn8jAZsisFJuW38NE2cuNyhJZUNFT3s2w_NFQcaAlgVEALw_wcB


    But it's located back and beyond, not bothering anyone.


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    #112
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Stihl waters wrote: »
    What a stupidly retarded statement

    I've reported your personal abuse.

    Why you need to mention the word retarded is beyond me.

    Whats next, are you going to start calling people the N word?


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    #113
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    A friend of mine built a passive house, having stayed in one in Austria. Now, this man has been a lifelong advocate of passive housing, green living, sustainability and the whole nine yards. So, this was his dream house. He ordered the house, which is a kit and is built like the Hof houses, all super-insulated prefabbed walls and so on. He had to build a particular type of insulated concrete plinth for the house to stand on and his architect warned him not use a regular Irish builder, to get a specialist passive house builder in to build the plinth. The Austrians wouldnt even ship the house until the plinth was built by the designated builder, a guy from Wales, whose crew came over and built it, to millimetre accuracy. Then, the Austrians came over and built it within three weeks. I kid you not. Special lead-free, water-based paints throughout, computer controlled air pump heating and circulation control, a double-door airlock for the front door. The heating cost for the year is a couple of hundred quid. Fantastic house and it's about 15 years old now and looks as good as the day it was built. Cost in the region of 400 thousand to build back then, on his own site. Great house but the initial cost is the killer, especially if you have to buy a site.


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    #114
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    beauf wrote: »
    I've not first hand experience, but anyone I know with a pellet boiler is constantly fixing and adjusting it. Might be cheap fuel but thats the only thing thats cheap about it. Maybe some people have good experiences.

    There is no cheap fuel. I would have a solid fuel cast iron on in the morning only planning restraints stop me. The pellet stoves dont hold the heat when they turn them off at night. Ours cost 1600 incl installation. Could have gotten a lovely cast iron for €600 and less trouble.


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    #115
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    the hot tub users will say that their wood is bone dry, having been stacked for three years and they'd be foolish not to use it, as they have plenty of it and it is a renewable resource.


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    #116
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    Anybody recall those Corpo flats that were centrally heated? Plastic walls? Built in Cork and Dublin with brick gable ends and front and rear walls made of a kind of fibreboard coated in plastic and they had an electric air blower heating system, which was supposed to duct heated air around the rooms and keep them warm. They were a disaster and constantly failed and the Corpo had to rip them out and fit fireplaces. Our first house in Cork had them (a private scheme) but we soon got rid of it. The houses were so badly insulated, it was impossible to heat them properly. Everyone in the estate put in a fireplace afterwards. back in the 70s and 80s, rockwool was about as good as it got for insulation. the concept of insulating walls didnt exist.

    I was listening to someone who lived in the old Ballymun flat towers in Dublin which used district heating from the Ballymun boiler house, apparently it was horribly hot all the time - when working. The woman who was talking about this used to sleep on the floor as a child!


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    #117
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,494 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Graces7 wrote: »
    As a matter of interest and information can you price it per hour to use? Thank you.
    a 3kW heater? about 50c an hour, on full.


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    #118
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Burning coal to stay warm is a sign of an incredibly stupid society.

    Coal, anthracite, wood, gas all work and have been proven to provide sustainable heat. Solid fuel stoves are 70% efficient. These magical wonderful new technologies arent always reliable, high maintenance and expensive. I would happily take the loss of firing out my pellet stove if I could and get cast iron solid fuel!!!


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    #119
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    There is no cheap fuel. I would have a solid fuel cast iron on in the morning only planning restraints stop me. The pellet stoves dont hold the heat when they turn them off at night. Ours cost 1600 incl installation. Could have gotten a lovely cast iron for €600 and less trouble.

    I currently have Gas. I find it significantly cheaper. That said I think big part of that is I got zones installed and the water heating separated from the heating. I also got a boost timer installed. That changed how you use it. We don't use a schedule. We only heat exactly what we want and when we want it.


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    #120
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Does that account for the 20-30% efficiency of an open fire? Can't tell from that document.

    They appear to be the cost per kWh. The fact that most of it goes up the chimney is probably neither here nor there in that chart. Again, I'm far from an expert and happy to be corrected.


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    #121
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    beauf wrote: »
    I currently have Gas. I find it significantly cheaper. That said I think big part of that is I got zones installed and the water heating separated from the heating. I also got a boost timer installed. That changed how you use it. We don't use a schedule. We only heat exactly what we want and when we want it.

    Its difficult to say. All heating cost the same as regards energy usage. There are just better managed systems. You can save money on investing in insulation first and then closing cold bridges. Some systems are no doubt more efficient than others. Gas is sweet because it is clean and hassle free. Underfloor heating, solar panels, pellet stoves all come with their own complications.


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