Smoke Pollution in Urban Areas

Our towns and cities are destroyed with smoke from solid fuel burning stoves, ranges and fireplaces.

On a cold, still night every second chimney has smoke billowing from it that just lingers for the night.

Go outside and you come home stinking of smoke.

The sale of stoves of stoves should be banned and active night-time enforcement with heavy fines for any household allowing smoke escape their chimney.

ted1

salonfire wrote: »

Our towns and cities are destroyed with smoke from solid fuel burning stoves, ranges and fireplaces.

On a cold, still night every second chimney has smoke billowing from it that just lingers for the night.

Go outside and you come home stinking of smoke.

The sale of stoves of stoves should be banned and active night-time enforcement with heavy fines for any household allowing smoke escape their chimney.

What city are you in. Very little being burnt n Dublin

B.A._Baracus

Accordingly the smoke was mental back in the day before central heating became a common thing in Ireland. I do believe that's where the name "big smoke" for Dublin came about.

But policing people who warm themselves and their families in their own home ... You didn't think that one through did you op

1o059k7ewrqj3n

ted1 wrote: »

What city are you in. Very little being burnt n Dublin

Wasn't there a ban on smoky fuels (coal etc) in Dublin in the 80s due to smog? It wasn't anything like Victorian era London but it was fairly dire at times.

Dubmany

What made a big difference in reducing smoke levels in Dublin and other cities was the introduction of the smoky coal ban (you can burn smokeless coal instead). That ban was extended to towns over 10,000 people this September. The problem is that it hasn't fed through or isn't being enforced.

Graces7

Dubmany wrote: »

What made a big difference in reducing smoke levels in Dublin and other cities was the introduction of the smoky coal ban (you can burn smokeless coal instead). That ban was extended to towns over 10,000 people this September. The problem is that it hasn't fed through or isn't being enforced.

Smokeless eggs is all I can get locally out here; west mayo. and a bit of turf of course.

Thelonious Monk

Haven't noticed it in Dublin, apparently it's bad in some smaller towns, Letterkenny for e.g. sometimes has worse air quality than New Delhi!

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30971995.html

Stovepipe

On a cold, still night.....blame God(insert name of favourite deity here). He/she/it is allegedly in charge of the weather. It's called high pressure. Ask Met Eireann....

gozunda

Heres the current map of Ireland re Air Quality.

Looks like worst areas atm are Dublin and Areas in Northern Ireland along the border

https://aqicn.org/map/ireland/

Snapshot of current conditions

3d4life

salonfire wrote: »

Our towns and cities are destroyed with smoke from solid fuel burning stoves, ranges and fireplaces.

On a cold, still night every second chimney has smoke billowing from it that just lingers for the night.

Go outside and you come home stinking of smoke.

The sale of stoves of stoves should be banned and active night-time enforcement with heavy fines for any household allowing smoke escape their chimney.

Exactly this

Around here it is due to smoke from wood burning stoves.

One local installer of same was telling me that he has 80 customers expecting him to install a stove before christmas

There is a need for control but by who ? L.A. or EPA or other ?

Harry Palmr

I reckon most of it is from wet wood these days.

When the air inverts you will always get noxious fumes settling at ground level be it from vehicles, open fires/stoves or central heating.

LuasSimon

I’ll give up my fire when I get a nice social housing central heated apartment in Rathgar and I want gym membership as well !

Clareman

Big problem is that people are burning everything not just the stuff they are buying so a lot of rubbish is being burnt which is making everything worse.

3d4life

ted1 wrote: »

What city are you in. Very little being burnt n Dublin

Where I am used to be rural, is now suburban due to many ( 50+ ) upmarket houses having been built nearby in the last 7 years ( A or B rated - minimal heating required )

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

..But policing people who warm themselves and their families in their own home ... You didn't think that one through did you op

Houses around me have elaborate heating arrangements - mostly involving heat pumps and MHRV systems. There is no need to be burning stuff to heat them

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Wasn't there a ban on smoky fuels (coal etc) in Dublin in the 80s due to smog? It wasn't anything like Victorian era London but it was fairly dire at times.

Its nothing to do with smoky coal. Nearly all the stoves are burning wood.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Heres the current map of Ireland re Air Quality.

Looks like worst areas atm are Dublin and Areas in Northern Ireland along the border

https://aqicn.org/map/ireland/

Snapshot of current conditions

Cash for ash.

magicbastarder

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I reckon most of it is from wet wood these days.

This is a hell of a lot to do with it. The key is getting the burn good and hot. Wet wood or an open fire drastically reduce heat and efficiency and result in much more smoke.

When our stove is up to temp, a passerby would be hard pressed to spot any smoke coming out of the chimney. Only seasoned hardwood used in it.

Harry Palmr

gozunda wrote: »

Heres the current map of Ireland re Air Quality.

Looks like worst areas atm are Dublin and Areas in Northern Ireland along the border

https://aqicn.org/map/ireland/

Snapshot of current conditions

Interesting to a point - that point being the extent of the monitoring equipment in use which seems to be mainly around greater Dublin

Ubbquittious

Never had any problems with air quality in Ireland. Maybe the smoke lingers in some towns on a windstill day but we don't get many windstill days especially on the west coast.

I don't know where the notion to ban stoves is coming from. Perhaps uneducated an Taisce rabble rousers. Miserable streaks of piss the lot of them

grassylawn

It's generally worse in towns that are outside the areas covered by the smoky coal ban.
Wexford and Enniscorthy are particularly bad, as I understand it, thanks to the geography combined with coal burning.

gourcuff

its pretty toxic in dublin...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dublin-air-pollution-breaching-eu-limits-epa-warns-1.3950575#:~:text=Many%20areas%20of%20Dublin%20are,according%20to%20an%20EPA%20warning.


especially bad when cycling when your breathing rate increases...

Ubbquittious

3d4life wrote: »

Where I am used to be rural, is now suburban due to many ( 50+ ) upmarket houses having been built nearby in the last 7 years ( A or B rated - minimal heating required )




Houses around me have elaborate heating arrangements - mostly involving heat pumps and MHRV systems. There is no need to be burning stuff to heat them



Its nothing to do with smoky coal. Nearly all the stoves are burning wood.

Heat pumps are pretty much powered by burning gas off site.

Victor

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Accordingly the smoke was mental back in the day before central heating became a common thing in Ireland.

I remember back around 1987 crossing the street and I couldn't quite see the other footpath.

However, while the smoke is less visible these days, it is much more nefarious - the small particles get further into the lungs an cause more problems.

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Never had any problems with air quality in Ireland. Maybe the smoke lingers in some towns on a windstill day but we don't get many windstill days especially on the west coast.

In towns, on the east coast and during still weather it can be bad.

I was passed by a car the other days an even though I was wearing a mask, it smelt like I was sharing a phone box with someone smoking a cigarette.

3d4life

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Heat pumps are pretty much powered by burning gas off site.

Well I never !


Tell us now, how much smoke is produced when gas is burnt to produce electricity ?

Atlantic Dawn

RTE had one of those Eco Eye shows on recently and a house had €80k spent on it including getting 50% of this in grants yet included a wood burning stove in a densely populated area of Dublin, you couldn't make it up, these crooked shows encouraging these practices need to be called out...

https://www.rte.ie/player/series/eco-eye/SI0000000494?epguid=AI000002951

magicbastarder

gourcuff wrote: »

especially bad when cycling when your breathing rate increases...

it's actually worse to be in a car, than on a bike or on foot. pollution levels are higher in cars typically.

magicbastarder

3d4life wrote: »

Well I never !


Tell us now, how much smoke is produced when gas is burnt to produce electricity ?

have you ever seen smoke coming out of a gas boiler? burning natural gas (unless the boiler is malfunctioning) produces H20 and CO2.

gozunda

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Interesting to a point - that point being the extent of the monitoring equipment in use which seems to be mainly around greater Dublin

Not quite. Certainly Dublin has a much higher density of population than elsewhere.

List of Air Quality monitoring stations here - located around the country

https://airquality.ie/stations

gozunda

magicbastarder wrote: »

have you ever seen smoke coming out of a gas boiler? burning natural gas (unless the boiler is malfunctioning) produces H20 and CO2.

But don't heat pumps work by collecting ambient heat from soil and water? Wheres the gas come into it?

magicbastarder

i assumed the question was related to the electricity generation required to run the pumps.

The Tetrarch

A bit of power and the Greens are running amok.

magicbastarder

why? what have they done?

grassylawn

The Tetrarch wrote: »

A bit of power and the Greens are running amok.

Last year their policy was that greyhound racing should be defunded. Huge amounts of money are pumped into it to support a handful of jobs and there are major concerns about the welfare of the animals involved.

Last week they voted to provide a large sum of money to fund greyhound racing.

No mention of a nationwide rollout of the smoky coal ban.

Not aware of any environmentalist measures that were enacted since they got into government.

magicbastarder

significant increase in funding for NPWS, and creation of a wildlife crime unit.
climate bill
€108m being channeled to repurposing bogs.

magicbastarder

anyway, that's OT.
what's the balance of suspected sources of particulate matter pollution in urban areas anyway? i.e. how much is from transport, how much from electricity generation, how much from solid fuel, etc?

Yellow_Fern

gozunda wrote: »

But don't heat pumps work by collecting ambient heat from soil and water? Wheres the gas come into it?

They are referring the electricity used to power them. In a badly insulated house some types of heat pump can require a lot of electricity.

suicide_circus

It's like being in a Dickens novel, love it.

Sonic the Shaghog

No problem with the banning of stoves and fireplaces as long everyone that uses them is given adequate grants to completely insulate their house and install heat pumps to standard, if it's too costly then social housing should be provided.

As you can see not a fan of just ban and let the poor freeze to death myself now

No doubt you'd moan at the tax hike/new charge to cover this tho.

Edgware

LuasSimon wrote: »

I’ll give up my fire when I get a nice social housing central heated apartment in Rathgar and I want gym membership as well !

Sorry P.A.Y.E. workers not acceptable

TheChizler

Stoves are far preferable to open fires too, better burn so less particulates, and more efficient so less fuel used for the same heat making it into the room. I'd love to know what the proportion of pollution of open fires to stoves is. The same question for coal and wood.

3d4life

3d4life wrote: »

Well I never !


Tell us now, how much smoke is produced when gas is burnt to produce electricity ?

magicbastarder wrote: »

have you ever seen smoke coming out of a gas boiler? burning natural gas (unless the boiler is malfunctioning) produces H20 and CO2.

MB, that is, of course, the answer.


My question was aimed at Ubbquittious.......... who ignored it

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Heat pumps are pretty much powered by burning gas off site.

SEPT 23 1989

I miss the smell of proper fires hanging in the air in Dublin on a still winters evening

COVID

I miss the smell of napalm in the morning.

highdef

I've two stoves. I also have a kerosene fed central heating boiler. Sometimes I run out of kerosene and it may be a few days before I can get a refill. Having two stoves in different parts of the house really does come in handy in those situations. Looking at the flames flicker in the stove is therapeutic to me plus the amount of heat that the stoves provide versus the amount of fuel burnt is pretty amazing.

Markcheese

magicbastarder wrote: »

why? what have they done?

Doesn't matter , they exist ..and and there both too green and not green enough at the same time ... Ggggrrrrrr ..

bluezulu49

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Interesting to a point - that point being the extent of the monitoring equipment in use which seems to be mainly around greater Dublin

This is a very good point. Anyone coming along the M11 from Arklow towards Dublin at this time of the year can see very bad air pollution hanging over Wicklow town and Rathnew, neither of which have monitoring stations.

grassylawn

magicbastarder wrote: »

significant increase in funding for NPWS, and creation of a wildlife crime unit.
climate bill
€108m being channeled to repurposing bogs.

That's all great to hear actually.

skooterblue2

LuasSimon wrote: »

I’ll give up my fire when I get a nice social housing central heated apartment in Rathgar and I want gym membership as well !

Peasant, you really sort changed yourself!! You should have gotten the Concierge service too with access to the rooftop garden. Get him to bring the Bentley round the front too.

John_Rambo

Our stove won't burn wet wood, got it from a Danish company a decade ago that was obviously ahead of it's time. It's got a clean burn system that produces barely any smoke and leaves barely any ash.

The bad air in Dublin is due to vehicular traffic. The coal ban was a complete success and the capital doesn't suffer from that heavy hanging winter smog from turf and coal burning that smaller towns suffer from.

Ubbquittious

3d4life wrote: »

MB, that is, of course, the answer.


My question was aimed at Ubbquittious.......... who ignored it

Ah jaysus, terribly sorry I'm not sitting around boardsing all day. Havn't the luxury of a salary paid to me for boardsing like some of the paid shill accounts on this site.


It was the no need to burn anything remark I was refering to.

Victor

magicbastarder wrote: »

have you ever seen smoke coming out of a gas boiler? burning natural gas (unless the boiler is malfunctioning) produces H20 and CO2.

Also NOx and possibly small amounts of other pollutants.

magicbastarder wrote: »

what's the balance of suspected sources of particulate matter pollution in urban areas anyway? i.e. how much is from transport, how much from electricity generation, how much from solid fuel, etc?

Electricity generation probably produces very little particulate matter, as the plants are big enough to allow easy removal. A fair chunk is from transport (leaning towards PM2.5) and in winter a fair chunk is from solid fuel (leaning towards PM10).

Stihl waters

When they come up with an affordable alternative to burning timber, turf and coal I'll rip out my stove until then I'll keep the home fire burning