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Smoke Pollution in Urban Areas

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13567…12

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    #62
    Stihl waters
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Stihl waters


    salonfire wrote: »
    See this here is exactly what I'm taking about. This attitude needs active night time enforcement with stiff penalties. It's the only way you'll hammer the selfishness out of people like this .

    So what would you heat houses with if these houses have only stove heating, hit them with penalties until they sit in the cold unable to heat themselves, very well for new houses that can be built to modern standards but older houses were built to standard for their time, that involved open fires, ranges and oil heating


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    #63
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Stihl waters wrote: »
    So what would you heat houses with if these houses have only stove heating, hit them with penalties until they sit in the cold unable to heat themselves, very well for new houses that can be built to modern standards but older houses were built to standard for their time, that involved open fires, ranges and oil heating

    Too many old folk die every year from hypothermia, worried sick about the cost of heating. And electricity is a poor substitute for living flame. I have lived both ways.


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    #64
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,639 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the *only* good thing about burning turf is the smell. it's pretty **** on all other fronts.


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    #65
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,622 ✭✭✭Nermal


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Is it affordable? I would have thought it was more economic to heat your home off electricity than solid fuel.

    Heat pumps are incapable of heating anything that hasn't had six figures spent insulating it. The idea that we will do this to every property in the country is comical. The real alternative to solid fuel burning is natural gas.


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    #66
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,439 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Nermal wrote: »
    Heat pumps are incapable of heating anything that hasn't had six figures spent insulating it. The idea that we will do this to every property in the country is comical. The real alternative to solid fuel burning is natural gas.
    Never mentioned heat pumps. Was thinking plug in heaters. Unless you're getting your solid fuel for free or close to it I'd be surprised how sending 90% of your heat up the chimney could be cheaper than electricity which is notoriously expensive, considering retrofitting anything is apparently off the table. And I include a stove in that.


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    #67
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,639 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i've heard some eye watering stories recently about how badly insulated some houses are. my mother's friend sold her house a few years ago (admittedly a very large one, nearly 3,000sq. ft., built in the late 70s/early 80s, i guess).
    during the cold winter we had a few years ago, she had three refills of her heating oil tank.


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    #68
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    Houses built back then were virtually worthless in terms of insulation. You might as well be pouring the oil onto the ground, for all the good it was doing. But even newer houses weren't up to much. My house was built in 2000 and had 100 mm insulation in the attic and that was it. No insulation worthy of the name in the walls. I laid 200 mm rockwool in the attic spaces and a few days ago, got the walls pumped. I have a small stove in the front room, which is infinitely more efficient than the original open fire. heats more space,uses less fuel. I also fitted internal cladding to a converted garage as it was a real heat drain. If I had the money, I'd replace the windows but that's far too expensive right now for me to achieve.


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    #69
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Any of the 2000 era houses in my area I see getting extensions etc. Generally go back to the walls, and start over basically.

    But then again the cost to do that is massive vs just paying for extra oil or gas. With the new regulations thats only got more expensive.


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    #70
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Stihl waters wrote: »
    So what would you heat houses with if these houses have only stove heating, hit them with penalties until they sit in the cold unable to heat themselves, very well for new houses that can be built to modern standards but older houses were built to standard for their time, that involved open fires, ranges and oil heating

    Why are you living in a house that doesn't have access to modern heating systems?


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    #71
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Burning coal to stay warm is a sign of an incredibly stupid society.


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    #72
    Paddygreen
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭Paddygreen


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Why are you living in a house that doesn't have access to modern heating systems?

    Probably a peasant who can’t afford to hire Dermot Bannon . That’s no excuse for pollution. A few warm jumpers, star jumps and a blanket should do the trick.


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    #73
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,950 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Green Party spent their last time in Government encouraging people to get wood burners (and to drive diesel cars) based on poor interpretations of science done under a "must be seen to do something" approach.

    The air was cleaner when people had gas heated houses and occasionally had a turf fire for atmosphere rather than using a wood burner 180 days a year on cheap wet wood from some local dodgy retailer or petrol station forecourt.


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    #74
    Paddygreen
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭Paddygreen


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Burning coal to stay warm is a sign of an incredibly stupid society.

    Lovely to watch the warm glow of a coal fire on a cold December night but it is such a slap in Mother Earths face. We have Breaks the third commandment “thou shall not burn coal to heat thyself”


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    #75
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Burning coal to stay warm is a sign of an incredibly stupid society.

    Why?


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    #76
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Paddygreen wrote: »
    Probably a peasant who can’t afford to hire Dermot Bannon . That’s no excuse for pollution. A few warm jumpers, star jumps and a blanket should do the trick.

    Wondering after this came up way back.. do you drive a car?


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    #77
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Why are you living in a house that doesn't have access to modern heating systems?

    It would be interesting if you class houses with "open fires, ranges and oil heating" as not modern. What % of Irish housing have modern heating systems.

    If you have an older house I would say pre 2005, so 15yrs + its very likely to need a massive amount of investment in order to make its heating and insulation modern. You are unlikely to see get that investment back if you sell it. So the only people likely to do what is a new buyer, or someone planning to live their for the next 25~30 yrs.


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    #78
    Stihl waters
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Stihl waters


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Why are you living in a house that doesn't have access to modern heating systems?

    I have stated already I have a stove and oil central heating, what modern systems would you have me put in to replace them?


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    #79
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    beauf wrote: »
    It would be interesting if you class houses with "open fires, ranges and oil heating" as not modern. What % of Irish housing have modern heating systems.

    If you have an older house I would say pre 2005, so 15yrs + its very likely to need a massive amount of investment in order to make its heating and insulation modern. You are unlikely to see get that investment back if you sell it. So the only people likely to do what is a new buyer, or someone planning to live their for the next 25~30 yrs.

    Well yes oil would be a modern central heating system, but people are talking on this like they've no choice but to burn turf etc to heat their houses.
    I just don't know why or how you'd end up living in a house where that was the only heating option, in 2020.


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    #80
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Stihl waters wrote: »
    I have stated already I have a stove and oil central heating, what modern systems would you have me put in to replace them?

    I thought you were reliant on the stove, apologies.


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    #81
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    salonfire wrote: »
    Our towns and cities are destroyed with smoke from solid fuel burning stoves, ranges and fireplaces.

    On a cold, still night every second chimney has smoke billowing from it that just lingers for the night.

    Go outside and you come home stinking of smoke.

    The sale of stoves of stoves should be banned and active night-time enforcement with heavy fines for any household allowing smoke escape their chimney.

    I grew up in Dublin in the 1980s .... that was smog!!
    It was unreal, amazed I didn't get asthma, used to love going out to my cousins in meath for some fresh air!!


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    #82
    Paddygreen
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭Paddygreen


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Wondering after this came up way back.. do you drive a car?

    Absolutely not grace. I live in Dublin. I use public transport and a rechargeable hoverboard. I would use my €3995 bike but I’m terrified of it getting stolen by tracksuited decos.


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    #83
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Burning coal to stay warm is a sign of an incredibly stupid society.

    I know yeah!
    Damn those people for not being able to afford those Elon Musk state of the art Li batteries that are mined from slave kids in the Congo!


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    #84
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Burning coal to stay warm is a sign of an incredibly stupid society.

    My Mam is almost 80. She is on the State pension and gets about €250 per week. It's fair to say she doesn't have any spare money at the end of the week.

    She lives in a poorly insulated house that's heading for 75 years old and heats her house using a stove. What alternative does she have to using coal?

    She doesn't have the capital to invest in better technology. She is hardly unique as many pensioners are in the same boat.

    What do you suggest those people do?


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    #85
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    My Mam is almost 80. She is on the State pension and gets about €250 per week. It's fair to say she doesn't have any spare money at the end of the week.

    She lives in a poorly insulated house that's heading for 75 years old and heats her house using a stove. What alternative does she have to using coal?

    She doesn't have the capital to invest in better technology. She is hardly unique as many pensioners are in the same boat.

    What do you suggest those people do?

    Is gas or oil heating an option? Could the rest of the family not pay for central heating? I can't believe people still live like this.


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    #86
    Paddygreen
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭Paddygreen


    L1011 wrote: »
    Green Party spent their last time in Government encouraging people to get wood burners (and to drive diesel cars) based on poor interpretations of science done under a "must be seen to do something" approach.

    The air was cleaner when people had gas heated houses and occasionally had a turf fire for atmosphere rather than using a wood burner 180 days a year on cheap wet wood from some local dodgy retailer or petrol station forecourt.

    What on earth are you talking about? The Green Party assumed that people knew that the best kind of firewood is kiln dried and comes on a nice brand new pallet from scandinavia or one of the Baltic countries.


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    #87
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I can't believe people still live like this.

    It's not that unbelievable. In 2019, almost 20% of Irish homes were heated primarily using solid fuels.


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    #88
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Is gas or oil heating an option? Could the rest of the family not pay for central heating? I can't believe people still live like this.

    I fear you are out of touch. If there was a genuine national survey of living units the percentage that didn't have half the current regs for insulation and does have solid fuel as the only "fixed" point heating would be significant. Esp insulation.

    The current grants are too small for a genuine step change.


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    #89
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,639 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Paddygreen wrote: »
    What on earth are you talking about? The Green Party assumed that people knew that the best kind of firewood is kiln dried and comes on a nice brand new pallet from scandinavia or one of the Baltic countries.
    was it not wood pellet boilers which were really getting the push? i remember stories from years ago about people not storing the pellets correctly and them falling apart and clogging up their boilers.


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    #90
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,639 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Esp insulation.
    and there's a significant amount of housing stock built with cavity block (i've been told there's a good chance my house is one of the earliest) which makes them a PITA to insulate, and the main option people choose is internal slabbing - which is quite disruptive and expensive (not just for the actual install and skimming, but redecoration afterwards also)


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    #91
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    I fear you are out of touch. If there was a genuine national survey of living units the percentage that didn't have half the current regs for insulation and does have solid fuel as the only "fixed" point heating would be significant. Esp insulation.

    The current grants are too small for a genuine step change.

    A significant portion of houses nationally are greater than 30 years old. With many being 50 years plus. And certainly whilst some have undergone insulation and had central heating systems installed - certainly not all. Others due to original construction mean that they can only be upgraded to a point before extensive rebuilding is required.

    Many such houses are lived in by the elderly and less well off in my experience.


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