Shooting in California

Dohnjoe · 11-12-2015 12:21pm

kettlehead wrote: »

I am warming to Trump. The professionally offended Twiterrati will all be on blood pressure pills if he keeps this up. It's like Trump is finding every single possible way to be a complete asshole, and it's only making him rise in the polls. He's retweeting pol memes ffs!

He's doing well in the polls because he is reflecting a sizeable portion of the population that are racists and bigots

Trump himself isn't the problem and it's the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about

kettlehead · 11-12-2015 12:26pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

He's doing well in the polls because he is reflecting a sizeable portion of the population that are racists and bigots

Trump himself isn't the problem and it's the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about

I know. Extremely lax border control and mass immigration from Muslim countries is the issue. Not Trump.

Dohnjoe · 11-12-2015 12:35pm

kettlehead wrote: »

I know. Extremely lax border control and mass immigration from Muslim countries is the issue. Not Trump.

It goes far, far beyond genuine concerns about the above

It's mass hysteria - and he's just tapping into it

Conservative outlets in the US pump out a lot of alarmism, distorted information and exaggerations which are fueling this hysteria, on top of that we have politicians who are capitalising on it.. however Trump is going the furthest, and therefore making the most gains

Nodin · 11-12-2015 12:43pm

kettlehead wrote: »

I know. Extremely lax border control and mass immigration from Muslim countries is the issue. Not Trump.

.....in the states? Since when?

kettlehead · 11-12-2015 1:00pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It goes far, far beyond genuine concerns about the above

It's mass hysteria - and he's just tapping into it

Conservative outlets in the US pump out a lot of alarmism, distorted information and exaggerations which are fueling this hysteria, on top of that we have politicians who are capitalising on it.. however Trump is going the furthest, and therefore making the most gains

Were they the same media outlets that were telling us that the migrants were mostly highly educated and that ISIS would not use the migrant route to get their operatives into Europe?

Nodin · 11-12-2015 1:02pm

kettlehead wrote: »

Were they the media outlets that were telling us that the refugees were mostly highly educated and that ISIS would not use the migrant route to get their operatives into Europe?

Trump is an American politician talking in America about America and the shootings carried out in the US were not carried out by people who came there via the "migrant route".

kettlehead · 11-12-2015 1:16pm

The Paris attacks were though and he's also referencing and talking about them.

Nodin · 11-12-2015 1:24pm

kettlehead wrote: »

The Paris attacks were though and he's also referencing and talking about them.

So he's suggesting dealing with a European problem in the wake of a shooting in America by tackling a wave of mass "immigration" that doesn't actually occur in the US by enacting a sectarian measure that would be unconstitutional and illegal. "joined up thinking" wouldn't seem to be his strong point.

nokia69 · 11-12-2015 2:00pm

Nodin wrote: »

So he's suggesting dealing with a European problem in the wake of a shooting in America by tackling a wave of mass "immigration" that doesn't actually occur in the US by enacting a sectarian measure that would be unconstitutional and illegal. "joined up thinking" wouldn't seem to be his strong point.

It would NOT be unconstitutional or illegal since it would NOT apply to any US citizen

Nodin · 11-12-2015 2:05pm

nokia69 wrote: »

It would NOT be unconstitutional or illegal since it would NOT apply to any US citizen

Really?
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/law-experts-weigh-donald-trumps-plan-ban-muslims-n476041

He referred to US citizens currently out of the country, did he not? He wanted US muslims to sign on a database certainly.

InTheTrees · 11-12-2015 2:10pm

nokia69 wrote: »

It would NOT be unconstitutional or illegal

Oh please. A religious test to get into the country?

:rolleyes:

nokia69 · 11-12-2015 2:15pm

Nodin wrote: »

Really?
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/law-experts-weigh-donald-trumps-plan-ban-muslims-n476041

He referred to US citizens currently out of the country, did he not? He wanted US muslims to sign on a database certainly.

The MSM is full of lies and BS about Trump, I saw the BBC doing a hatchet job on him the other night, much the same as the link you posted

If Trump or any other US president wanted to cut the number of new muslim immigrants all he would have to do is bar immigrants from islamic countries, there is nothing illegal or unconstitutional about that, in fact something similar has been done in the past with other countries, that well known Nazi Jimmy Carter stopped people from Iran moving to the US back in the 70s

nokia69 · 11-12-2015 2:16pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

Oh please. A religious test to get into the country?

:rolleyes:

It would be a passport test, anyone with a passport from a country like saudi arabia would not be allowed in

job done, problem solved

Christy42 · 11-12-2015 2:26pm

nokia69 wrote: »

It would be a passport test, anyone with a passport from a country like saudi arabia would not be allowed in

job done, problem solved

No it would be religious. There are plenty of Muslims with European passports. He said nothing about banning people from certain countries. He did say something about banning people of a certain religion though.

Nodin · 11-12-2015 2:34pm

nokia69 wrote: »

The MSM is full of lies ...................

"ONoes, liberal illumati"......

nokia69 wrote: »

If Trump or any other (............)US back in the 70s

No, not really.
http://www.snopes.com/jimmy-carter-banned-iranian-immigrants/

Herb Powell · 11-12-2015 2:55pm

Christy42 wrote: »

No it would be religious. There are plenty of Muslims with European passports. He said nothing about banning people from certain countries. He did say something about banning people of a certain religion though.

"Are you a muslim?"

"No"

"K"

=====> USA

The Randy Riverbeast · 11-12-2015 3:24pm

I'm wondering what would happen when his plans barely make a dent in the number of deaths. Less than 10% of terrorism in the U.S. is Muslim related.

At the end of his term when people look at before and after, it won't look good. one year you were more likely to be shot by a toddler than die from terrorism.

JPNelsforearm · 11-12-2015 3:35pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

Oh please. A religious test to get into the country?

:rolleyes:

"Trump’s comments also sparked criticism from all leading American Jewish organizations, including the Anti-Defamation League (ADL). Jonathan Greenblatt, the ADL’s chief executive, issued a statement which said: “Mr. Trump’s plan to bar people from entry to the United States based on their religion is unacceptable and antithetical to American values…In the Jewish community, we know all too well what can happen when a particular religious group is singled out for stereotyping and scapegoating. We also know that this country must not give into fear by turning its back on its fundamental values, even at a time of great crisis."

http://www.knesset.gov.il/laws/special/eng/citizenship_law.htm

"That law makes citizens of Iran, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Libya, Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, the West Bank, and Gaza Strip ineligible for residency in Israel, even if they are married to an Israeli citizen."

http://www.visa-law.co.il/immigration-to-israel/

One rule for Western democracies another rule for the rest of the world.

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/labor-migration-united-arab-emirates-challenges-and-responses

The Gulf states, Israel all close their cborders and screen who gets into their countries on health, age etc and yes, religious grounds, yet when a European or nation of european heritage does it everyone loses their minds.

The Randy Riverbeast · 11-12-2015 3:37pm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Trump’s comments also sparked criticism from all leading American Jewish organizations, including the Anti-Defamation League (ADL). Jonathan Greenblatt, the ADL’s chief executive, issued a statement which said: “Mr. Trump’s plan to bar people from entry to the United States based on their religion is unacceptable and antithetical to American values…In the Jewish community, we know all too well what can happen when a particular religious group is singled out for stereotyping and scapegoating. We also know that this country must not give into fear by turning its back on its fundamental values, even at a time of great crisis.

http://www.knesset.gov.il/laws/special/eng/citizenship_law.htm

http://www.visa-law.co.il/immigration-to-israel/

One rule for Western democracies another rule for the rest of the world.

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/labor-migration-united-arab-emirates-challenges-and-responses

The Gulf states, Israel all close their cborders and screen who gets into their countries on health, age etc and yes, religious grounds, yet when a European or nation of european heritage does it everyone loses their minds.

Look at these crappy countries. They are awful and we should copy them? It's funny how the same people calling to not let these people in because of their views want to implement their views.

JPNelsforearm · 11-12-2015 3:47pm

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

Look at these crappy countries. They are awful and we should copy them? It's funny how the same people calling to not let these people in because of their views want to implement their views.

Ireland is a country for Irish people, hundreds of thousands of people died so that we could be free, we owe absolutely nothing to anybody, the duty of the Irish state is to preserve the Irish people, nothing else, thats the basic duty of any state. Mass immigration flies in the face of that. What percentage of immigrants are we currently at in Ireland, 16% of the population? Rising every year, where do you stop? Its a black and white issue, either you believe every ethnic group has a right to self preservation and to be free in their own homeland or you dont.
I agree with the Israeli's on nothing, but I agree with them on that, a country is its people.

The Randy Riverbeast · 11-12-2015 3:52pm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Ireland is a country for Irish people, hundreds of thousands of people died so that we could be free, we owe absolutely nothing to anybody, the duty of the Irish state is to preserve the Irish people, nothing else, thats the basic duty of any state. Mass immigration flies in the face of that. What percentage of immigrants are we currently at in Ireland, 16% of the population? Rising every year, where do you stop? Its a black and white issue, either you believe every ethnic group has a right to self preservation and to be free in their own homeland or you dont.
I agree with the Israeli's on nothing, but I agree with them on that, a country is its people.

What is the max percentage of a population that should be immigrants and what reasoning behind it other than its a number you made up?

And your solution to that is to implement policies in a secular republic which use religion as a requirement so we can keep out the people who want religious laws to take priority? By the looks of it they are already here and they aren't Muslim. Muslims are 1% of the population so I doubt it will make a difference.

JPNelsforearm · 11-12-2015 4:03pm

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

What is the max percentage of a population that should be immigrants and what reasoning behind it other than its a number you made up?

And your solution to that is to implement policies in a secular republic which use religion as a requirement so we can keep out the people who want religious laws to take priority? By the looks of it they are already here and they aren't Muslim. Muslims are 1% of the population so I doubt it will make a difference.

The max percentage, we have gone over it.

Over 50% of the population of the UAE are not native, none have been given UAE citizenship, all are guests, liable to leave when the government says so

"Israel, despite being a liberal democratic country, is not an immigration country. Therefore, Israel does not have laws and regulations enabling foreigners who wish to come and settle Israel the opportunity to do so."

Why do those countries,( Im sure there are more, I just googled) restrict who can and cannot stay/enter/become a citizen? Because they are all nazis who want to herd people into death camps?

A country can impose any test it likes, why should we not? Should we just take in geriatrics, the disabled, people with TB, AIDS? Islamists? People who are culturally incompatible.

Take someone like Ali Selim, what is he doing in Ireland? We have allowed someone in who is regressive in every sense, and then give him a platform. simply dont let these people in, no more terrorism, no more social unrest, problem solved

The Randy Riverbeast · 11-12-2015 4:18pm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

The max percentage, we have gone over it.

You're nearly there, we know its lower than 16%. Is it 15.9? or maybe 1? Or will you just keep being vague? You either know the number and the consequences of going above that number or you don't. Im starting the think the latter.

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Over 50% of the population of the UAE are not native, none have been given UAE citizenship, all are guests, liable to leave when the government says so

"Israel, despite being a liberal democratic country, is not an immigration country. Therefore, Israel does not have laws and regulations enabling foreigners who wish to come and settle Israel the opportunity to do so."

Why do those countries,( Im sure there are more, I just googled) restrict who can and cannot stay/enter/become a citizen? Because they are all nazis who want to herd people into death camps?

A country can impose any test it likes, why should we not? Should we just take in geriatrics, the disabled, people with TB, AIDS? Islamists? People who are culturally incompatible.

Can they? Sure, you can ban women from voting, have the death penalty for being gay. A country can do all sorts of things. If it should or not is a completely different question. You pick out UAE, a country which uses Sharia law. One second we're being told their way of life is incompatible with ours and the next they are being used as examples to follow.

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Take someone like Ali Selim, what is he doing in Ireland? We have allowed someone in who is regressive in every sense, and then give him a platform. simply dont let these people in, no more terrorism, no more social unrest, problem solved

You want to throw people out who you disagree with. You want a PC thought police but will complain as soon as they look at you.

Christy42 · 11-12-2015 4:27pm

Herb Powell wrote: »

"Are you a muslim?"

"No"

"K"

=====> USA

"You look Muslim."

===/===>USA. Or indeed someone is actually religious and has something on them identifying them as Muslim at which point it gets harder for ordinary people to lie about.

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Ireland is a country for Irish people, hundreds of thousands of people died so that we could be free, we owe absolutely nothing to anybody, the duty of the Irish state is to preserve the Irish people, nothing else, thats the basic duty of any state. Mass immigration flies in the face of that. What percentage of immigrants are we currently at in Ireland, 16% of the population? Rising every year, where do you stop? Its a black and white issue, either you believe every ethnic group has a right to self preservation and to be free in their own homeland or you dont.
I agree with the Israeli's on nothing, but I agree with them on that, a country is its people.

I believe that every ethnic group has the right to self preservation and to be free in their own homeland. The fact that a muslim family lives down the road from where I grew up has done absolutely nothing to change the fact that I am free and safe in my own country. Immigration does nothing to hurt the Irish state. You want to know where the people that have hurt the Irish state the most over the last 90 or so years have come from? Ireland.

Hundreds of thousands of people died for freedom from the British Empire. So we could be free to make our own choices about our own country. It was because people felt they were being put down in the Empire because we where Irish. They did not fight for the right to judge others because of their own heritage. That would have been a stupid reason to die.

I agree that a country is its people. I can only hope that I can be proud of my own when this is done.

Look up nothing in the dictionary by the way.

JPNelsforearm · 11-12-2015 4:36pm

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

You're nearly there, we know its lower than 16%. Is it 15.9? or maybe 1? Or will you just keep being vague? You either know the number and the consequences of going above that number or you don't. Im starting the think the latter.

Can they? Sure, you can ban women from voting, have the death penalty for being gay. A country can do all sorts of things. If it should or not is a completely different question. You pick out UAE, a country which uses Sharia law. One second we're being told their way of life is incompatible with ours and the next they are being used as examples to follow.

You want to throw people out who you disagree with. You want a PC thought police but will complain as soon as they look at you.

No exact number, but plenty of studies point out the social unrest and political instability that comes from mass immigration. We are currently at 16%, luckily only 5% mayebe less or so non europeans, so its largely confined to the ghettos of D15 and small locations around the country. Its not a large scale problem, but with the unemployment rate among african immigrants running at 36%https://www.esri.ie/news/ethnicity-and-nationality-in-the-irish-labour-market/ Its only a matter of time
http://www.oecd.org/dev/pgd/46923664.pdf

A stopped clock is right twice a day. A country could be the biggest dump or best country in the world, both will have a certain amount of good and bad ideas. Discarding a policy or idea because of its source is moronic.

No I absolutely support total freedom of speech, but importing a Muslim Brotherhood acolyte to Ireland has nothing to do with that, If Tom McMuck wants to convert to Islam and start spouting about Sharia, off he goes, thats his freedom to do so. Its the height of stupidity however, to import these people, its a separate issue.

The Iona institute can spout homophobic guff, they are a minority of the population, why would any sane person propose to increase the numbers of people who agree with them? Its madness, WE NEED MORE HOMOPHOBES AND FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION, said no one ever

The Randy Riverbeast · 11-12-2015 4:47pm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

No exact number

It was the latter then. Good to know.

Christy42 · 11-12-2015 4:49pm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

No exact number, but plenty of studies point out the social unrest and political instability that comes from mass immigration. We are currently at 16%, luckily only 5% mayebe less or so non europeans, so its largely confined to the ghettos of D15 and small locations around the country.

The Iona institute can spout homophobic guff, they are a minority of the population, why would any sane person propose to increase the numbers of people who agree with them? Its madness, WE NEED MORE HOMOPHOBES AND FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION, said no one ever

Oh good. In Ireland we can ban all Muslims and everyone from the southern US then. I know, I know, not everyone from the Southern US is a bible basher but there are plenty of them that are and until we have a good way of sorting them out we should just ban them all.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/15/gay-marriage-arrives-in-the-south-where-the-public-is-less-enthused/

Man I am so glad that there are plenty of studies. So many that in fact you weren't bothered to link a single one. Curious if those same studies also account for european immigrants which you feel makes a difference. Care to expand on why?

JPNelsforearm · 11-12-2015 5:01pm

Christy42 wrote: »

Oh good. In Ireland we can ban all Muslims and everyone from the southern US then. I know, I know, not everyone from the Southern US is a bible basher but there are plenty of them that are and until we have a good way of sorting them out we should just ban them all.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/15/gay-marriage-arrives-in-the-south-where-the-public-is-less-enthused/

Man I am so glad that there are plenty of studies. So many that in fact you weren't bothered to link a single one. Curious if those same studies also account for european immigrants which you feel makes a difference. Care to expand on why?

How do you define a tipping point? France Sweden and Britain all have social unrest and social conflict due to their large immigrant populations. Thats a fact, what hasnt been defined, is at what point the lack of social cohesion becomes an issue. Its will, thats inevitable, what hasnt been studied is a at what percentage does it become a problem.

If we keep ploughing on with our current policies its laughable to think that we wont have the same problem every other nation has had. Is Ireland somehow immune to Islamic terrorism?

JPNelsforearm · 11-12-2015 5:03pm

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

It was the latter then. Good to know.

Large immigrant populations=social unrest. racism, violent crime etc etc, That a given.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=social+instability+immigration&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjW9dGSl9TJAhVEjQ8KHQXoCD0QgQMIHTAA

I havent come across a study that put a percentage point on it, but it exists, we havent hit that point, but we will, Ireland and its people are not exceptions to demographic trends

Christy42 · 11-12-2015 5:35pm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

How do you define a tipping point? France Sweden and Britain all have social unrest and social conflict due to their large immigrant populations. Thats a fact, what hasnt been defined, is at what point the lack of social cohesion becomes an issue. Its will, thats inevitable, what hasnt been studied is a at what percentage does it become a problem.

If we keep ploughing on with our current policies its laughable to think that we wont have the same problem every other nation has had. Is Ireland somehow immune to Islamic terrorism?

We are not immune. Nor will blocking the borders protect us. I will say I am not in favour of open borders. Restrictions are needed as well as plans to ensure a community can deal with the influx. However there are plenty of places with high crime not related to race (see English football fans a few decades ago, Limerick and Dublin gangs, various IRA groups laundering diesel etc.)

Also in the link in your following post I didn'T see anything to back up your claims.

Nodin · 11-12-2015 6:11pm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

The Gulf states, Israel all close their cborders and screen who gets into their countries on health, age etc and yes, religious grounds, yet when a European or nation of european heritage does it everyone loses their minds.

And what could we possibly learn from that shower that we haven't spent the last few hundred years trying to forget?

MonkeyTennis · 16-12-2015 5:54pm

BREAKING: San Bernardino shooters did not post support for jihad on social media: FBI

leavingirl · 16-12-2015 6:54pm

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

BREAKING: San Bernardino shooters did not post support for jihad on social media: FBI

Too late. The disinformation has been out there long enough.

wes · 16-12-2015 8:44pm

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

BREAKING: San Bernardino shooters did not post support for jihad on social media: FBI

San Bernardino shooting: Attackers did not express support for Isis on social media and were not part of terror cell
Reports wrongly claimed Tashfeen Malik, who killed 14 people with her husband, pledged allegiance to Isis on Facebook

Where did everyone get that information from the in first place. The media need to do some serious fact checking as that claims has been around for a while now.

Billy86 · 16-12-2015 9:12pm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Large immigrant populations=social unrest. racism, violent crime etc etc, That a given.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=social+instability+immigration&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjW9dGSl9TJAhVEjQ8KHQXoCD0QgQMIHTAA

50% of Toronto were born outside of Canada. It really is hell on Earth over here, so bad it is one of the safer bets to be on any 'best cities to live in' along with Vancouver who apparently are 45% foreign born.

miss tickle · 17-12-2015 1:49am

wes wrote: »

Where did everyone get that information from the in first place. The media need to do some serious fact checking as that claims has been around for a while now.

In fairness, the fbi's use of language when addressing the issue would suggest they were quite happy for the legend to go mainstream.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-shooting-isis-idUSKBN0TN1SR20151205,

Asked about a reported Facebook post by Malik on the day of the attack pledging loyalty to Islamic State, Bowdich said, "I know it was in a general timeline where that post was made, and yes, there was a pledge of allegiance."

FISMA. · 17-12-2015 2:07am

Whosthis wrote: »

IIts at the stage now that I don't think gun controls will be of any use in the US.

Controls? Actually, she passed
(1) Homeland Security - American law enforcement and national security database check
(2) State Department - visa application/fingerprint check
(3) Green card, after marriage, another round of criminal & security checks
(4) Meeting in Pakistan with consular
(5) Immigration officer in US. At the time of green card application.

What good are controls when gov't is incompetent or complacent?

Mrs Scumbag Terrorist, prior to her marriage, expressed, online in public ,social media: support of ISIS, jihad, and martyrdom.

A simple google search could have prevented such an attack.

Unfortunately, the Obama Administration had a policy that prevented immigration officials from reviewing publicly available social media postings at that time.

Plenty of controls. No will.

wes · 17-12-2015 4:31am

FISMA. wrote: »

Mrs Scumbag Terrorist, prior to her marriage, expressed, online in public ,social media: support of ISIS, jihad, and martyrdom.

Did you just ignore the earlier link showing that was completely untrue:

San Bernardino shooting: Attackers did not express support for Isis on social media and were not part of terror cell
Reports wrongly claimed Tashfeen Malik, who killed 14 people with her husband, pledged allegiance to Isis on Facebook

So a simple Google search would not have prevented anything.

Wurzelbert · 17-12-2015 11:00am

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

BREAKING: San Bernardino shooters did not post support for jihad on social media: FBI

erm, what difference does it make? social media or not, the important fact is that they were islamists and that’s what made them do it…

Christy42 · 17-12-2015 1:20pm

Wurzelbert wrote: »

erm, what difference does it make? social media or not, the important fact is that they were islamists and that’s what made them do it…

Is it? Maybe they were just like your run of the mill American mass shooters and so we can now ignore the issue once we say or thoughts and prayers are with the victims.

Wurzelbert · 17-12-2015 1:54pm

Christy42 wrote: »

Is it? Maybe they were just like your run of the mill American mass shooters and so we can now ignore the issue once we say or thoughts and prayers are with the victims.

it seems they did have dreams of “jihad and martyrdom”, according to that article somebody posted earlier…

Christy42 · 17-12-2015 5:43pm

Wurzelbert wrote: »

it seems they did have dreams of “jihad and martyrdom”, according to that article somebody posted earlier…

Huh. Missed that line earlier as I accidentally skipped the paragraph due to its position. Fair enough guess this is a mass shooting that something should be done about.

Wompa1 · 17-12-2015 11:00pm

Wurzelbert wrote: »

it seems they did have dreams of “jihad and martyrdom”, according to that article somebody posted earlier…

They guy in California burned alive by the cops had dreams of revenge. The kid in California had dreams of vengence against the people that didn't accept him. The Colorado shooter had dreams of being a warrior for the babies....

Not that you are stating otherwise or anything but there's a bunch of different catalysts but the common denominator is America.

Shooting in California

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